How do I test the coils? **PROBLEM FIXED**

[Bugslayer]

I thought the new battery fixed my problem, but it's back. No fire at any plug. I've pulled the tank and side covers, and checked every connection I can find. One problem I can see is the kill switch. It acts like it has dirty contacts. Will the motor turn over if the kill switch is messing up? According to the "trouble shooting" section in the shop manual, it will.
Any idea's?

[Pete]

Use a meter and test for power at the coil with the switch and kill switch normal.

[indybobm]

According to the wiring diagram, I would say no, the motor will NOT turn over. The kill switch (Engine Stop Switch) is in series with the start switch. If the kill switch is off (or defective) the start switch will be inop.

Schematic from Shoptalk.

http://www.rattlebars.com/valkfaq/schematics/rpage12.html

[bentwrench]

With a grounded test lamp,the blk/wh wires should lite key on and kill sw.on at all times.The yellow ones should blink when the engine is cranked.

[Patrick]

The starter will not engage/run with the kill switch in the off/kill position.

These monsters have very few ignition issues, but, start and kill switch corrosion is the main one.
I'd recommend spraying the switch with some cleaner and cycle it a dozen times and see if doesn't fix it. If it doesn't then its time to take it apart.

I can pretty much guaranty you don't have a coil problem.

There have a few, very few, pulse generator failures, but, I'd first look at the handlebar switches.

[Bugslayer]

  It's been at least five years since I had to clean the contacts on the starter button. At that time, nothing happened when I pushed the button. The head light would turn off, but it wouldn't turn over the motor. Hopefully, my problem is in the starter button again. I'll find out today.

How about the kill switch. Is that serviceable like the starter button is? I'd like to be able to clean the contacts, but I haven't figured out how to remove the switch.

[Bighead]

 

How about the kill switch. Is that serviceable like the starter button is? I'd like to be able to clean the contacts, but I haven't figured out how to remove the switch.

Just take the switch housing off of the handlebar and there are a couple tiny screws holding it in the housing.

[Bugslayer]

Great! Thanks. 

[saddlesore]

I replaced the starter switch and the kill switch was part of the harness so both switches were replaced.

[Bugslayer]

I may not be the brightest crayon in the box, but I'm pretty sure this is my problem. The relay itself isn't melted, but the plug sure is. I assume the starter relay needs to be replaced? (Not just the plug.) The fuse isn't blown, and there are no melted parts other than the plug. The contacts on the relay has some corrosion, but it doesn't look too bad.

Would someone please verify that this is the part # for the starter relay  ..... 38501-GN2-014.... It's #14 on the "WIRE HARNESS" page of the parts fiche. The pic doesn't look anything like the part does.  I'm also curious about the plug. I don't see a part number for that. I'll keep searching and see what I find.
Thanks!

[gordonv]

You can do a search. I found this with a search for "starter relay goldwing", it has the post from R J I was looking for.

http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,68716.0.html

[Bugslayer]

Thanks!

[Bugslayer]

With a grounded test lamp,the blk/wh wires should lite key on and kill sw.on at all times.The yellow ones should blink when the engine is cranked.

OK... I cut off the melted plug that the relay plugs into, and put insulated connectors on the wire ends. Then I used some sand paper and cleaned off the terminals on the starter relay. The outside of the relay looks fine. (don't know about the inside, though.)   With it all hooked back up, the motor will turn over, but not start. I assume if the relay was fried, the motor wouldn't turn over...?..... 

I used my test lamp and checked both wires on top each coil. All six wires are hot when the key is turned on. But none of them blink when the engine is cranked. Does that tell you anything?   

[Ricky-D]

Bad ICM

***

[bentwrench]

Is the batt. strong enough,valks need good cranking speed to fire.

[Pete]

Bad ICM

***

Sure sounds like it.

[Bugslayer]

Yep, that's what it sounds like. I just bought one from Pinwall, but it won't be here until probably next Wed. I'll post what happens when I get it.
Thanks for the help!

[Patrick]

Is it an OEM  ICM, or, aftermarket ?  The OEMs have bullet-proof. But, thats not to say one can't go bad. I can't remember anyone having a bad one.
My thoughts were either of the handlebar switches, until you found the 'hot' wires. I have a feeling the problem is still there.
It'll be interesting to see what the problem is.

[Bugslayer]

OEM.
I'm not sure what else to do..... Guess it'll just be a wait and see. 

[Gryphon Rider]

Jump start it from a car battery (car engine off).  I think it'll start, thus proving insufficient output from your battery, either because it needs replacing, or has an insufficient charge.

[Bugslayer]

I've tried that... more than once. Actually, after I just read your post, I tried it again. I jumped it from my P/U truck (with engine turned off) and from a fully charged battery, fresh off the Battery Tender. The motor spins very fast, but there's not even a hint of starting.

I have a new starter relay coming in (hopefully) Friday just to rule that out. And the ICM, coming in soon. (I hope!)

[Gryphon Rider]

I've tried that... more than once. Actually, after I just read your post, I tried it again. I jumped it from my P/U truck (with engine turned off) and from a fully charged battery, fresh off the Battery Tender. The motor spins very fast, but there's not even a hint of starting.

I have a new starter relay coming in (hopefully) Friday just to rule that out. And the ICM, coming in soon. (I hope!)

A new relay isn't a bad thing, but if the starter is spinning the relay is working.  Keep the old one as a spare.

Fuel is turned on?  Tank has gas?  Just mentioning some really obvious things that you've probably checked, but if not, might save you the minor hassle of changing your ICM

[Bugslayer]

I've tried that... more than once. Actually, after I just read your post, I tried it again. I jumped it from my P/U truck (with engine turned off) and from a fully charged battery, fresh off the Battery Tender. The motor spins very fast, but there's not even a hint of starting.

I have a new starter relay coming in (hopefully) Friday just to rule that out. And the ICM, coming in soon. (I hope!)

A new relay isn't a bad thing, but if the starter is spinning the relay is working.  Keep the old one as a spare.

Fuel is turned on?  Tank has gas?  Just mentioning some really obvious things that you've probably checked, but if not, might save you the minor hassle of changing your ICM

Yeah, I wasn't sure about the relay. As hot as the plug got, I thought something inside the relay may have melted. Even though it seems to be doing it's job,  I figured I'd play it safe and get a new one.

I welcome any suggestions..... even the obvious ones.

[gordonv]

Have you actually removed a plug, and checked if you have a spark while cranking the engine?

While cranking, maybe 10 sec, there should start to be a smell of fuel coming from the exhaust. Use the chock if you have to. If no smell of fuel, then no gas is getting in the cylinders.

It's very simple, spark and fuel. Without either, the bike wont run. I can't remember how my IS ran, but my GW I can turn the run switch to kill, and press the start button and crank the engine over. This is how I prime the engine after an oil change, before I let it run.

[Bugslayer]

Have you actually removed a plug, and checked if you have a spark while cranking the engine?

While cranking, maybe 10 sec, there should start to be a smell of fuel coming from the exhaust. Use the chock if you have to. If no smell of fuel, then no gas is getting in the cylinders.

It's very simple, spark and fuel. Without either, the bike wont run. I can't remember how my IS ran, but my GW I can turn the run switch to kill, and press the start button and crank the engine over. This is how I prime the engine after an oil change, before I let it run.

Yes, I've pulled, grounded and checked each plug. One at a time. Several times. Every time I checked an electrical connection, I checked the plugs. After I serviced the starter button..... I checked the plugs. I even checked a plug while I was jumping the bike from my truck. No spark.  I do smell gas while it's cranking, though.

On the Valk, the engine won't turn over with the kill switch off. The headlight turns off, but that's it.

I WILL find the problem. It's just gonna take some time. 

Thanks for the suggestions.... I appreciate the help!

[Bugslayer]

So............................................................ Struck out again. 

The ICM came in. Plugged it in, no change. Still cranks like the dickens, but no fire. So far, including the ICM, I've replaced the starter relay, serviced the starter button and replaced the battery. I've checked fuses and what ever connections I could find. I also used my meter to check the voltage at the battery and while grounding at the frame. The voltage is the same.

I'm just spit ballin, but the only other place I can think to check is the pulse generator.  Is there a way to test them, or is it just replace and hope for the best?   ???

[Crackerborn]

Have you checked the dogbone?

[Bugslayer]

Have you checked the dogbone?

Yes, Looks good.
Thanks!

[Patrick]

I've not heard of an OEM ICM going bad. A couple pin connection problems, but, not the unit as a  whole.

I can't ell you how to check the generators without getting out the Honda bible. The procedure is in there and as mentioned there have been a few of them go bad over the years.

The common coil wire should show power continually [ I think] and the trigger back to the ICM should flash as needed/grounded. The generators could very well be a problem. I've not run into this problem, yet.

[gordonv]

Looking over the schematics on the bike. Page 375 (17-0). If I understand correctly, follow the power to the coil, which goes through the kill switch, then bank angle relay/sensor, then all the safety items.

Have you done anything to your bike recently? Taken the center cover off (bank angle sensor), the front neck covers (which I think is where the diode is located).

Do you have the Honda Service Manual? http://valkyrienorway.com/download.html

I would be following this page and checking out the different components of the coils.

Follow the schematics and test at each connector/item, and see you have power. I would start in the middle, no power move half way to the batter, with power move along half way to the coil. I wouldn't be spending money buying parts to switch out, when something as easy as a $10 volt meter can actually identify where the power ends.

[Bugslayer]

I looked in the manual, and saw how to replace the IPG, but nothing about testing it(them).

I haven't done anything to the bike recently before this problem started.

Each coil has power going to them. 

To be honest, I have a hard time following electrical schematics. I'll look again and see if I can make head or tails of it.

Thanks everyone!

[Gryphon Rider]

To be honest, I have a hard time following electrical schematics. I'll look again and see if I can make head or tails of it.

Rattlebars web site hosts schematic drawings that are broken into various systems, are colour, and easier to understand.
http://www.rattlebars.com/valkfaq/schematics/index.html

[Bugslayer]

Thanks! I'll check it out.

[gordonv]

Then if you have raw power to the coil, which if I understand them correctly, is just a glorified relay, it takes the signal from the ICM to trigger the spark from the coil. So that would mean the problem is on that side of the circuit.

I would need to look it over again, but I would think we are looking at the pulse generator, ICM and trigger wheel.

Page 17-1 "A faulty ignition system is often related to a poor connection"

Page 17-3 shows the flow chart of what to test if no spark. I would follow that.
17-5 & 6 How to test primary voltage.

I don't understand this, since it talks of a Peak Voltage Adaptor, maybe some other understand or can tell of an alternative to using it?

[Patrick]

I looked in the manual, and saw how to replace the IPG, but nothing about testing it(them).

I haven't done anything to the bike recently before this problem started.

Each coil has power going to them. 

To be honest, I have a hard time following electrical schematics. I'll look again and see if I can make head or tails of it.

Thanks everyone!

Honda bible section 17. Starting at 17-1 to 17-7

[Bugslayer]

Problem is solved! It was the Ignition Pulse Generator.   

After I put her back together, she started up like nothing was ever wrong.

Thanks to everyone for the help! And thanks to Neil (Bassman) for the great deal on the IPG and the extra support..... I really appreciate!

James
Lubbock, TX.

[The emperor has no clothes]

WooHoo ! Glad you got her going. How's the new career going ?

[Bugslayer]

Thanks! I'm heading out for a long ride in the morning.

I start the new job Monday morning...... I've got the "first day of school" jitters going pretty good, but I'm really looking forward to it. 

[The emperor has no clothes]

Thanks! I'm heading out for a long ride in the morning.

I start the new job Monday morning...... I've got the "first day of school" jitters going pretty good, but I'm really looking forward to it. 

I'm sure you'll do great

[Bugslayer]

Appreciate it!