Brake Lines

[greggh]

1998 Valk STD  114,000 plus
When should they be replaced and should i use OEM or other brand?

Please advise.

Thank you Greggh

[Bighead]

Problems?
If it ain't broke don't fix it!

[greggh]

not broken,
doing brake work befor spring just trying to cover the bases
THey feel a bit soft at times
I rather like preventative maint instead of damage control
Thought i would ask here first
TY

[fudgie]

I just got some SS from ebay. Gonna do all mine and rebuild calipers soon.

[Hook#3287]

I would listen to Bighead.

But if I didn't listen to Bighead.

I would listen to fudgie

[Bone]

Miles on the bike is a good thing city driving means more brake use.

From the Service Manual 

Inspect the brake hoses, pipes and fittings for deterioration,
cracks, damage or signs of leakage.
Tighten any loose fittings.
Replace hoses, pipes and fittings as required

[hubcapsc]

I like the OEMs...

-Mike

[The emperor has no clothes]

I would listen to Bighead.

But if I didn't listen to Bighead.

I would listen to fudgie

[Bighead]

Funny huh?
I see so much much stuff replaced or tinkered with it  is laughable. Why would one take perfectly working parts off and replace with new that will do no better but the same job being done now. It makes Zero sense to me and all the Crab rebuilds and such. My bee has over 100 k and carbs have never been touched and don't need to be. I guess I don't see the need to needlessly tinker with something that isn't wrong.

[The emperor has no clothes]

Funny huh?
I see so much much stuff replaced or tinkered with it  is laughable. Why would one take perfectly working parts off and replace with new that will do no better but the same job being done now. It makes Zero sense to me and all the Crab rebuilds and such. My bee has over 100 k and carbs have never been touched and don't need to be. I guess I don't see the need to needlessly tinker with something that isn't wrong.

I understand. I just thought it was funny the way Bill said it. 

[fudgie]

Funny huh?
I see so much much stuff replaced or tinkered with it  is laughable. Why would one take perfectly working parts off and replace with new that will do no better but the same job being done now. It makes Zero sense to me and all the Crab rebuilds and such. My bee has over 100 k and carbs have never been touched and don't need to be. I guess I don't see the need to needlessly tinker with something that isn't wrong.

The rubber around my master cylinders is deteriorating. My rear caliper needs rebuilt and one of my fronts. I might as well rebuild all 3 and since everything is off of each end I might as well do the lines. Wont take much more.

[Bighead]

Crab rebuilds   damn me not proof reading

[Hook#3287]

Funny huh?
I see so much much stuff replaced or tinkered with it  is laughable. Why would one take perfectly working parts off and replace with new that will do no better but the same job being done now. It makes Zero sense to me and all the Crab rebuilds and such. My bee has over 100 k and carbs have never been touched and don't need to be. I guess I don't see the need to needlessly tinker with something that isn't wrong.

You're absolutely right about changing parts that don't need it, but not all bikes age the same due to different environment, preventative maintenance and owners.

[Bighead]

Agreed but whether it is 10 yrs old or 40 yrs old if it ain't broke don't fix it. Doesn't much matter how they age don't mess with things that don't need it is all I am saying.

[John Schmidt]

Personally, I'd go for the SS braided lines over OEM any day of the week. For starters, you will get a more solid feel in the brakes, and better braking overall. Generally I agree with the "if it isn't broke, don't fix it." But the OEM brake lines are a different subject. They get soft and expand with age and you can feel it when you apply the brakes. Replacing with SS braided lines will make a believer out of you, on my bike when I apply the brakes it feels solid....no give whatsoever.

I will say this....I've never overhauled my crabs, sure would like to know where I picked them up though. 

[greggh]

Thank you all for the appreciated info.
Anyone's thoughts on Galfer replacement lines?
TIA
Greggh

[Psychotic Bovine]

Funny huh?
I see so much much stuff replaced or tinkered with it  is laughable. Why would one take perfectly working parts off and replace with new that will do no better but the same job being done now. It makes Zero sense to me and all the Crab rebuilds and such. My bee has over 100 k and carbs have never been touched and don't need to be. I guess I don't see the need to needlessly tinker with something that isn't wrong.

My bike has had a wicked backfire that my brother and I have been chasing for 2 years or more.  We finally decided to rebuild the carbs.  We found that nearly all of the o-rings in the vacuum rails were dry rotted.  Not sure if this is the problem or not, since we still have some work to do before starting it.  The lesson is that things do need to be replaced before they fail.  And some things, whether broken or not, should be upgraded. 
Also, changing to stainless steel braided brake lines was the best investment ever.  The brakes have much better feel, no mushiness at all in the lever.  Best $100 ever spent on my bike.

[Psychotic Bovine]

Thank you all for the appreciated info.
Anyone's thoughts on Galfer replacement lines?
TIA
Greggh

I am pretty sure my brake lines are Galfers.  Like I said, they made a world of difference in the lever feel.

[Bighead]

Funny huh?
I see so much much stuff replaced or tinkered with it  is laughable. Why would one take perfectly working parts off and replace with new that will do no better but the same job being done now. It makes Zero sense to me and all the Crab rebuilds and such. My bee has over 100 k and carbs have never been touched and don't need to be. I guess I don't see the need to needlessly tinker with something that isn't wrong.

My bike has had a wicked backfire that my brother and I have been chasing for 2 years or more.  We finally decided to rebuild the carbs.  We found that nearly all of the o-rings in the vacuum rails were dry rotted.  Not sure if this is the problem or not, since we still have some work to do before starting it.  The lesson is that things do need to be replaced before they fail.  And some things, whether broken or not, should be upgraded.  
Also, changing to stainless steel braided brake lines was the best investment ever.  The brakes have much better feel, no mushiness at all in the lever.  Best $100 ever spent on my bike.

You can spend unnecessary money if you want. But why didn't you replace those parts BEFORE you started chasing a problem ? Because they didn't need to be replaced ?
Do you routinely change the brake lines on your car? Or if you have one take the carb off your car when it is having no problems just to rebuild it? I would say not.

[Joevalk]

Touchy Touchy people on here, replace lines if you think there is a problem, rebuild the calipers if you think they need rebuilding, rebuild mater cylinders if they need rebuilding. I've replaced my lines with SS and rebuilt everything on all my bikes with less miles. Carbs too even tho this subject is about brakes.   

[Psychotic Bovine]

Funny huh?
I see so much much stuff replaced or tinkered with it  is laughable. Why would one take perfectly working parts off and replace with new that will do no better but the same job being done now. It makes Zero sense to me and all the Crab rebuilds and such. My bee has over 100 k and carbs have never been touched and don't need to be. I guess I don't see the need to needlessly tinker with something that isn't wrong.

My bike has had a wicked backfire that my brother and I have been chasing for 2 years or more.  We finally decided to rebuild the carbs.  We found that nearly all of the o-rings in the vacuum rails were dry rotted.  Not sure if this is the problem or not, since we still have some work to do before starting it.  The lesson is that things do need to be replaced before they fail.  And some things, whether broken or not, should be upgraded.  
Also, changing to stainless steel braided brake lines was the best investment ever.  The brakes have much better feel, no mushiness at all in the lever.  Best $100 ever spent on my bike.

You can spend unnecessary money if you want. But why didn't you replace those parts BEFORE you started chasing a problem ? Because they didn't need to be replaced ?
Do you routinely change the brake lines on your car? Or if you have one take the carb off your car when it is having no problems just to rebuild it? I would say not.

I changed out the brake lines because it increased the performance of the bike.
Also, on my Triumph Scrambler I changed out the headlight for an LED unit because it increased the performance of the lighting.  I plan on doing the same with the Valk.
As to the OP's original question. The Galfers are first rate, IMHO.  I can bring my bike to a stop with 1 finger, with a very linear feel.  SS lines should be standard on all bikes.

[hubcapsc]

The Galfers are first rate, IMHO.  I can bring my bike to a stop with 1 finger, with a very linear feel.  SS lines should be standard on all bikes.

I so habitually use one finger, that I don't even think about it...



I think OEM lines offer great feel and utility. I replaced the front ones
on my 1500 a few years ago. I did numerous other things at the same
time (rebuilt master cylinder and calipers and obviously fluid and bleed)
so I don't know if they all added together or if only one of them
really needed done, but my refreshed brakes worked (and
continue to work) GREAT.

I have no doubt that SS lines are good, but most I've seen look like
whacky add-ons to me...

-Mike "brakes aren't for looks..."

[greggh]

The SS lines a different brand,  or simply another name for the Galfer lines?

[hubcapsc]

The SS lines a different brand,  or simply another name for the Galfer lines?

Sorry, I was just abbreviating Stainless Steel... I got black Spiegler lines when I
got custom (longer) lines for my 1800. I don't know what is under the black,
but they work and look great.

-Mike

[Cracker Jack]

Funny huh?
I see so much much stuff replaced or tinkered with it  is laughable. Why would one take perfectly working parts off and replace with new that will do no better but the same job being done now. It makes Zero sense to me and all the Crab rebuilds and such. My bee has over 100 k and carbs have never been touched and don't need to be. I guess I don't see the need to needlessly tinker with something that isn't wrong.

My bike has had a wicked backfire that my brother and I have been chasing for 2 years or more.  We finally decided to rebuild the carbs.  We found that nearly all of the o-rings in the vacuum rails were dry rotted.  Not sure if this is the problem or not, since we still have some work to do before starting it.  The lesson is that things do need to be replaced before they fail.  And some things, whether broken or not, should be upgraded. 
Also, changing to stainless steel braided brake lines was the best investment ever.  The brakes have much better feel, no mushiness at all in the lever.  Best $100 ever spent on my bike.

You can spend unnecessary money if you want. But why didn't you replace those parts BEFORE you started chasing a problem ? Because they didn't need to be replaced ?
Do you routinely change the brake lines on your car? Or if you have one take the carb off your car when it is having no problems just to rebuild it? I would say not.

I changed out the brake lines because it increased the performance of the bike.
Also, on my Triumph Scrambler I changed out the headlight for an LED unit because it increased the performance of the lighting.  I plan on doing the same with the Valk.
As to the OP's original question. The Galfers are first rate, IMHO.  I can bring my bike to a stop with 1 finger, with a very linear feel.  SS lines should be standard on all bikes.

Hydraulically, the ratio of the force applied to the brake lever to the force applied to the caliper is set by the ratio of the diameter of the master cylinder bore to the diameter of the caliper piston. That won't be changed by changing the brake lines.

Soft lines will contribute to the soft feel of the lever and less give from SS lines or even new lines will give a firmer lever but for all practical purposes will not increase braking performance.

[greggh]

Great!
Fantastic information from Everyone!!!!
Thank you all for the much appreciated help.
Greggh

[Itinifni]

Cracker Jack is right on the money.

It's easy to check the lines, first do a visual inspection of the outer sheathing, any splitting or cracking and the lines should be replaced. It most often occurs where the line flexes under normal use, on the Valk that will be the area between the bracket on the front fender and the upper fitting.
The rear line really doesn't flex much at all.

Now grab the line and have someone squeeze the daylights out of the brake lever a couple of times, if you feel any expansion of the line it means the braiding has degraded and it's time to replace.

Even if you don't feel any expansion you'll probably get a slightly firmer lever by changing to braided steel lines but you don't need to replace the lines.

One warning about using braided steel lines, if they rub against anything (as in a poor fitting kit) they will remove the paint in a hurry.

And by the way, I like tinkering with my bike, it's all part of the experience!

[Gabriel]

Rubber brake lines do swell over time and the real problem with this is not how well it stops but how well the fluid returns to the reservoir.
Often they do not allow the piston to return and therefore maintain some pressure on the brake pads.
It's not hard to diagnose this problem because the bike will harder to roll after applying the brakes.
However this is not the only thing that will cause it to be hard to roll, so if you have this problem just open the bleeder on that wheel that is causing this, if it's the hose the wheel will roll free because you just released the pressure...