Advice on a whole bike relay and terminal box

[Harryc]

So I've gotten to the point where I need to clean up the relays (2 so far installed, 3 planned) and wiring to my battery (4 or 5 wires run now to each battery terminal). So I want a decent maybe 8 position terminal box with individually fused terminals and one big relay for the entire bike that triggers that box. I'd prefer it to have an integrated ground block too so I can clean up the negative batt post. Suggestions on the relay and terminal box? I don't want to spend more than 80 bucks or so. It needs to fit under the seat. Gear I am powering? Stebel air horn, heated grips, heated gear, Volt meter, Dan-marc, LED running lights, and I wouldn't mind putting the LED Daymaker headlight on it too eventually. I just wish I'd bought one of those SmartSwitch wiring harnesses from the DigiSync guy when I had the chance. 

[Brewer]

Clean and well respected: http://www.easternbeaver.com/Main/Wiring_Kits/Fuseboxes/PC-8/pc-8.html

[Harryc]

Clean and well respected: http://www.easternbeaver.com/Main/Wiring_Kits/Fuseboxes/PC-8/pc-8.html

Now that's nice. He even sells an H4 headlight relay kit similar to the SmartSwitch. Awesome. Thanks!

[RonW]

Motogadget M-units cost more than $80, but they're nice if you can afford them. They're a couple hundred dollars each. Was mentioned on another forum. They actually do away with the fuses. Eventually, the price will drop as more and more people use them, I think.

[Harryc]

Thanks Ron. I like the clean look of it, and knowing you (online) all these years I respect your opinion. I'll look into it.

[RonW]

Harry, I can't afford them myself. A nifty feature is that they can be re-set like circuit breakers.

[Harryc]

Harry, I can't afford them myself. A nifty feature is that they can be re-set like circuit breakers.

That is pretty nifty. Imagine blowing a breaker and not having to hunt for a fuse in the middle of nowhere?. Reset it and ride home. Very cool.

[..]

So I've gotten to the point where I need to clean up the relays (2 so far installed, 3 planned) and wiring to my battery (4 or 5 wires run now to each battery terminal). So I want a decent maybe 8 position terminal box with individually fused terminals and one big relay for the entire bike that triggers that box. I'd prefer it to have an integrated ground block too so I can clean up the negative batt post. Suggestions on the relay and terminal box? I don't want to spend more than 80 bucks or so. It needs to fit under the seat. Gear I am powering? Stebel air horn, heated grips, heated gear, Volt meter, Dan-marc, LED running lights, and I wouldn't mind putting the LED Daymaker headlight on it too eventually. I just wish I'd bought one of those SmartSwitch wiring harnesses from the DigiSync guy when I had the chance. 

I use an Eastern Beaver PC8.

[Ramie]

So I've gotten to the point where I need to clean up the relays (2 so far installed, 3 planned) and wiring to my battery (4 or 5 wires run now to each battery terminal). So I want a decent maybe 8 position terminal box with individually fused terminals and one big relay for the entire bike that triggers that box. I'd prefer it to have an integrated ground block too so I can clean up the negative batt post. Suggestions on the relay and terminal box? I don't want to spend more than 80 bucks or so. It needs to fit under the seat. Gear I am powering? Stebel air horn, heated grips, heated gear, Volt meter, Dan-marc, LED running lights, and I wouldn't mind putting the LED Daymaker headlight on it too eventually. I just wish I'd bought one of those SmartSwitch wiring harnesses from the DigiSync guy when I had the chance. 

Harry, I went cheap with one something like this you can get them in different sizes.  Use the aux circuit to trip 40 amp relay to power it.  Fit behind my battery.

https://www.amazon.com/AFTERPARTZ-Terminals-Circuit-Indicator-Terminal/dp/B01M6B4QI4/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1521204235&sr=8-1&keywords=motorcycle+fuse+block+waterproof&dpID=51XC%252BIWo-nL&preST=_SY300_QL70_&dpSrc=srch

[hubcapsc]

For years I had a Centech fuse box, it worked great, fuse boxes are a good option...



Now I have a circuit breaker box, I really like its programmable open-endedness...



-Mike

[carolinarider09]

Clean and well respected: http://www.easternbeaver.com/Main/Wiring_Kits/Fuseboxes/PC-8/pc-8.html

I agree I have used their products as well as http://www.fuzeblocks.com.

Both have worked as advertised and have been in service for several years (actually I forget which one can first but he Fuzeblock has been in service for at least 3 years and no issues). 

[Harryc]

Some good ideas on products here guys, thanks!

[The emperor has no clothes]

Harry, I've got the Centech AP-2. It works well, fits in the tool kit slot. I've thought of updating to the Beaver model, but really the Centech has been all I need.

https://www.amazon.com/Centech-AP-2-Dual-Fuse-Panel/dp/B003H2486K

[Harryc]

Harry, I've got the Centech AP-2. It works well, fits in the tool kit slot. I've thought of updating to the Beaver model, but really the Centech has been all I need.

https://www.amazon.com/Centech-AP-2-Dual-Fuse-Panel/dp/B003H2486K

Looks like a nice unit. Do you need a separate relay if you want switched devices hooked up?

[Wayn-O]

I went cheap.  Have a relay triggered by the acc wire, powered off the wire that goes to the big dog-bone fuse, with the output of the relay running to a fuse bank.  Fits easily under the seat, beneath the seat latch.

http://a.co/j6eecqU

Just using a cheap terminal block for ground wires.  It grounds to the frame.  Don't have anything going directly to the battery.  

All in, maybe $25 if not less.

[The emperor has no clothes]

Harry, I've got the Centech AP-2. It works well, fits in the tool kit slot. I've thought of updating to the Beaver model, but really the Centech has been all I need.

https://www.amazon.com/Centech-AP-2-Dual-Fuse-Panel/dp/B003H2486K

Looks like a nice unit. Do you need a separate relay if you want switched devices hooked up?

Its been some time, but if I remember correctly I used a relay triggered with the accessory wire.

[Harryc]

So I weighed the options vs cost, and I went with Meatheads suggestion. i got the Centech AP-2 and I also ordered a decent 30/40A relay, both from Amazon. Free shipping, and the total cost was $63 shipped. Under budget Thanks again guys.

[MarkT]

Looks like you have your soln but I'll answer anyway - others might use the info.

When I set up Deerslayer, I kept coming up with mods and added them one at a time over years until I would up with a rat's nest of wires.  So when I got Jade (97 Tour) I knew what mods I wanted and planned and installed them from the start.  I made a relay panel that fits in the battery box out of fiberboard and relays attached to it.  Unfortunately I could get only 11 relays on it.  The bike has 17 so 6 more are located under the right panel and in the headlight bucket.  Still, with labels on all of them, plus the panel can be pulled out makes maintenance easy.  This looks like a mess but I can find and fix things easy - and the looms help keep the wires under control.  If you think this is bad you should see Deerslayer - this is much better.




For the fuse panel, I added a PC-8 box under the right side.  This covered most fuses I needed with only about 3 more inline fuses.  All are labelled and easy to access.

[Harryc]

Thanks Mark. I'm not gonna ask what you do with 17 relays because it will only make me want to buy more stuff. Lol

[MarkT]

It would take me a long time to answer that, unless I just did a one-sentence description for ea w/o the tech detail.  However I have posted here probably all of them.  Most of them also exist on Deerslayer in a much more difficult to maintain mess.  Except the belly tank fuel mod and it's electric controls is only on Jade.

[mrgeoff]

MarkT...Those relays look awesome...I do hope you labeled the wires too...would be a pain if I had to pull all those wires off and then guess which relay they go to...Oh, by the way Linebacker II, I did some of the footwork for that...ASA.../72-73/Udorn/Nong Soong/7th Rock n Roll Freak Show...!!!

[MarkT]

Yeah it would be much nicer if I had spools of wire with at least 20 colors and in different gauges, then could use one color for just one circuit like auto/bike makers do. But I found I can go to the fuse panel or relay panel, read off the circuit name then track it's wires down to other locations fairly easily. Still, Honda mechanics don't want to work on them if the work involves the circuits.  And I don't want them to either.  That's my baby and I am the most qualified to maintain it.  BTW - always use good practices when building such circuits - eg., solder and shrink wrap everything, use looms and grommets, avoid sharp edges, use fuses correctly (close to power source, correct size, logical circuit bundling into ea fuse, and so on) Follow good practices and maintenance will be minimal.  I rarely have to fix anything on Jade in spite of it's complexity.  But I keep electrical repair tools and parts (wires, multimeter, test light, solder equip, fuses, tape, wire ties, shrink wrap, Bic lighter) in my toolbox anyway and sometimes need to use it. Also comes in handy to help others.

[Avanti]

To solve wire gauge and wire color issues for setting up circuits, I pull a wire harness from an old auto or truck, then you have plenty of wire to choose from.

[txtriathlete]

Getting ready to add one of these to my I/S. Recommendations on where to locate it? When I did this on my Wing I put it in the trunk but it was kind of in the way there so looking for another alternative. Inside the fairing?

[The emperor has no clothes]

Getting ready to add one of these to my I/S. Recommendations on where to locate it? When I did this on my Wing I put it in the trunk but it was kind of in the way there so looking for another alternative. Inside the fairing?

In my opinion, the best place is where the tool kit resides.

[MarkT]

I put mine with the other electric fuses, under the right cover.

[Valkpilot]

http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,63796.0.html

Even with a relay-triggered single accessory circuit panel, you'll still need relays for horns, driving lights, your headlight, etc.  You'll just pull the power to them from the panel.

[Harryc]

So I got the Centech AP-2 today and read the packaged instructions. It recommends a fusible link between the battery (positive) and the panel, or in my case between the 30/40A relay and the panel. I am not really familiar with fusible links, but I learned that in general you want a fusible link 4 numbers higher than the wire gauge you use to connect to the power source/battery. So lets say I use 12 guage wire for the battery to relay and relay to panel connections. I'd want a 16 gauge fusible link inline. Am I thinking this through correctly? If I don't use a fusible link, but instead a fuse/holder (which the instructions say is another option), how would I figure out what size fuse to use? Not sure I understand the purpose of either suggestion either. Am I protecting the panel from the battery? Battery from the panel? Everything through the panel is fused individually, so it can't be to protect the panel from the individual devices shorting/grounding out. I'm stumped.

[The emperor has no clothes]

So I got the Centech AP-2 today and read the packaged instructions. It recommends a fusible link between the battery (positive) and the panel, or in my case between the 30/40A relay and the panel. I am not really familiar with fusible links, but I learned that in general you want a fusible link 4 numbers higher than the wire gauge you use to connect to the power source/battery. So lets say I use 12 guage wire for the battery to relay and relay to panel connections. I'd want a 16 gauge fusible link inline. Am I thinking this through correctly? If I don't use a fusible link, but instead a fuse/holder (which the instructions say is another option), how would I figure out what size fuse to use? Not sure I understand the purpose of either suggestion either. Am I protecting the panel from the battery? Battery from the panel? Everything through the panel is fused individually, so it can't be to protect the individual devices. I'm stumped.

Harry, are you going to make your entire panel powered by the relay ? I'm no electrical expert by any means, but this is what I did. I used a relay to power 4 of my terminals and 2 terminals have direct power from the battery. I didn't use a fusible link, although that does seem smarter. I used a 30 amp fuse.

Edit: 3 switched, 2 always powered. (I had to go look, getting old is hard on my memory)

[Harryc]

Harry, are you going to make your entire panel powered by the relay ? I'm no electrical expert by any means, but this is what I did. I used a relay to power 4 of my terminals and 2 terminals have direct power from the battery. I didn't use a fusible link, although that does seem smarter. I used a 30 amp fuse.

Correct, I planned to do the same. Relay to power (5) of the terminals and direct to the battery on the other (2). So a simple 30A fuse in a holder between the relay and the panel would do the trick? Seems if that is the solution, I'd want 2 x 30A fuses? One for the relay connection, one for the direct connection, both on the positive legs.  I'm probably way over thinking this, but that's me. Lol . I learned long ago not to mess with electricity. It's either 100% right or it's 100% wrong. Just thinking about the principle of it, a 30A fuse would take a massive short to blow. Wouldn't you want a fuse less than 30A? Same principle as the fusible link. A smaller gauge would melt before a higher gauge.

[The emperor has no clothes]

So I got the Centech AP-2 today and read the packaged instructions. It recommends a fusible link between the battery (positive) and the panel, or in my case between the 30/40A relay and the panel. I am not really familiar with fusible links, but I learned that in general you want a fusible link 4 numbers higher than the wire gauge you use to connect to the power source/battery. So lets say I use 12 guage wire for the battery to relay and relay to panel connections. I'd want a 16 gauge fusible link inline. Am I thinking this through correctly? If I don't use a fusible link, but instead a fuse/holder (which the instructions say is another option), how would I figure out what size fuse to use? Not sure I understand the purpose of either suggestion either. Am I protecting the panel from the battery? Battery from the panel? Everything through the panel is fused individually, so it can't be to protect the panel from the individual devices shorting/grounding out. I'm stumped.

I think the purpose is to not overpower the unit. In case you have too much stuff going at the same time. Like say, having your heated jacket drawing 10 amps, your GPS drawing 5 amps, your auxiliary lights drawing 10 amps, and your phone charger drawing 5 amps. If you had them all going at the same time, it might pull too much load thru it. Hypothetical numbers, but you get the idea.

[The emperor has no clothes]

Harry, are you going to make your entire panel powered by the relay ? I'm no electrical expert by any means, but this is what I did. I used a relay to power 4 of my terminals and 2 terminals have direct power from the battery. I didn't use a fusible link, although that does seem smarter. I used a 30 amp fuse.

Correct, I planned to do the same. Relay to power (5) of the terminals and direct to the battery on the other (2). So a simple 30A fuse in a holder between the relay and the panel would do the trick? Seems if that is the solution, I'd want 2 x 30A fuses? One for the relay connection, one for the direct connection, both on the positive legs.  I'm probably way over thinking this, but that's me. Lol . I learned long ago not to mess with electricity. It's either 100% right or it's 100% wrong.

I hear you. That sounds smart. I don't think I used a fuse on my direct battery connection. See what you did ? Now I'm going to have to rewire mine.   

[Harryc]

Harry, are you going to make your entire panel powered by the relay ? I'm no electrical expert by any means, but this is what I did. I used a relay to power 4 of my terminals and 2 terminals have direct power from the battery. I didn't use a fusible link, although that does seem smarter. I used a 30 amp fuse.

Correct, I planned to do the same. Relay to power (5) of the terminals and direct to the battery on the other (2). So a simple 30A fuse in a holder between the relay and the panel would do the trick? Seems if that is the solution, I'd want 2 x 30A fuses? One for the relay connection, one for the direct connection, both on the positive legs.  I'm probably way over thinking this, but that's me. Lol . I learned long ago not to mess with electricity. It's either 100% right or it's 100% wrong.

I hear you. That sounds smart. I don't think I used a fuse on my direct battery connection. See what you did ? Now I'm going to have to rewire mine.   

Didn't mean to cause you any more work. . Interesting thought on the total load vs what fuse to use...makes sense. Maybe I just need to add up the draw on all accessories and use that sized fuse. So it may very well be the 5 switched (via the relay) use 20A max,  and the 2 non-switched (direct to battery) use 10A max...there's my fuse sizes right?

[The emperor has no clothes]

You are getting over my pay grade now. I suppose you could switch fuses to a 20 amp or 10 amp. Also, I think I used larger wire than 12 gauge that you used as an example. It's been a while, but I remember it being pretty thick wire.

[The emperor has no clothes]

Harry, are you going to make your entire panel powered by the relay ? I'm no electrical expert by any means, but this is what I did. I used a relay to power 4 of my terminals and 2 terminals have direct power from the battery. I didn't use a fusible link, although that does seem smarter. I used a 30 amp fuse.

Correct, I planned to do the same. Relay to power (5) of the terminals and direct to the battery on the other (2). So a simple 30A fuse in a holder between the relay and the panel would do the trick? Seems if that is the solution, I'd want 2 x 30A fuses? One for the relay connection, one for the direct connection, both on the positive legs.  I'm probably way over thinking this, but that's me. Lol . I learned long ago not to mess with electricity. It's either 100% right or it's 100% wrong.

I hear you. That sounds smart. I don't think I used a fuse on my direct battery connection. See what you did ? Now I'm going to have to rewire mine.   

Didn't mean to cause you any more work. . Interesting thought on the total load vs what fuse to use...makes sense. Maybe I just need to add up the draw on all accessories and use that sized fuse. So it may very well be the 5 switched (via the relay) use 20A max,  and the 2 non-switched (direct to battery) use 10A max...there's my fuse sizes right?

Sounds logical to me. Just make sure the wire coming from the battery and relay is stout enough to handle your total amps. Now that I'm thinking about it, a fusible link doesn't seem like the way to go. If it were to blow, you'd be screwed. With fuses, you can just pop in another. (I doubt I rewire anything, 4 years and no problems)

[Harryc]

You are getting over my pay grade now. I suppose you could switch fuses to a 20 amp or 10 amp. Also, I think I used larger wire than 12 gauge that you used as an example. It's been a while, but I remember it being pretty thick wire.

Thanks Bro. I was just throwing 12 guage out there, but it will more than likely be 10 guage. You've helped me think this through, thanks!.

[The emperor has no clothes]

You are getting over my pay grade now. I suppose you could switch fuses to a 20 amp or 10 amp. Also, I think I used larger wire than 12 gauge that you used as an example. It's been a while, but I remember it being pretty thick wire.

Thanks Bro. I was just throwing 12 guage out there, but it will more than likely be 10 guage. You've helped me think this through, thanks!.

just remember, you are taking electrical advice from a dumb butcher. 

[Harryc]

You are getting over my pay grade now. I suppose you could switch fuses to a 20 amp or 10 amp. Also, I think I used larger wire than 12 gauge that you used as an example. It's been a while, but I remember it being pretty thick wire.

Thanks Bro. I was just throwing 12 guage out there, but it will more than likely be 10 guage. You've helped me think this through, thanks!.

just remember, you are taking electrical advice from a dumb butcher. 

Lol, I'll take advice from you any day. My best to Brenda. Be safe.

[The emperor has no clothes]

One more thing. I didn't do this and wished I had. I guess I still could but I'm kind of lazy.  When you get everything wired up, use one of those labeler things to distinguish which circuit goes to what. 

[Harryc]

One more thing. I didn't do this and wished I had. I guess I still could but I'm kind of lazy.  When you get everything wired up, use one of those labeler things to distinguish which circuit goes to what. 

Amen...I was thinking about that exact thing today.