I can't believe how stupid people and the LAW have become.

[solo1]

Just a sample of the news.

Woman climbs over a high fence at the zoo to retrieve her hat.  The tiger is going nuts trying to get at her. but a smaller fence is in the way.  She got away with it.

Another woman is petting a bison at the roadside in a national park.. She also got away with it.

The guy that sets off 5 pounds of tannerite from 40 feet away and blows off his leg.

A man is charged for "murdering and raping" a dog.   No comment about him or our society.

A local man, here in Ft. Wayne, gets one year jail time for killing his wife's dog.  

Three years ago, locally,  a young girl, while texting, drives full bore into a rider on a Honda Shadow stopped at a traffic light, killing the rider and dragging him, and the motorcycle over 300 feet stuck  in the grill of her car.

I have not heard of any prison time for her.

[Willow]

I believe. 

[fudgie]

Some of those aint illegal. 

[_Sheffjs_]

I know right! And what has happened in a short time here. When I was young Rob and Laura Petrie slept in separate beds and they were married!       Yes I know I'm not right in the head.

[John Schmidt]

I know right! And what has happened in a short time here. When I was young Rob and Laura Petrie slept in separate beds and they were married!       Yes I know I'm not right in the head.

Jerry, that's the way it was in early TV. A man and woman couldn't be seen in bed together, also you hardly ever saw a guy in his underwear but I did see a woman like that a few times but not until much later.

[Jess from VA]

Humans have been screwing up badly forever.

It's just that there's so many more of us now.  (cops too)

[_Sheffjs_]

Humans have been screwing up badly forever.

It's just that there's so many more of us now.  (cops too)

But do you remember road rage in the 50's - 60's?   (just an example) 

It's like daily here now. 

[old2soon]

Correct is wrong. Wrong is correct. A mooslim truck driver won't deliver beer and wins a court case for a fair piece of change. A Christian bakery owner refuses to make a cake for a gay couple and gets a huge fine. AND this p c b s continues onward to more and more p c b s.   RIDE SAFE.

[Jopson]

A man is charged for "murdering and raping" a dog.   No comment about him or our society.

Murdering and raping a dog??............ In that order???
There's some sad b#stards in this world.

[The emperor has no clothes]

Humans have been screwing up badly forever.

It's just that there's so many more of us now.  (cops too)

But do you remember road rage in the 50's - 60's?   (just an example)  

It's like daily here now.  

I am kind of embarrassed to say negative things about my Dad who has passed many years ago. But I don't think there were too many times that my Dad drove a vehicle without getting pissed at someone. I can remember him flipping people off, rolling down the window and cussing people out. Once when a drunk rear ended our 1 month old '64 Nova he tried to get the driver out of his car to no avail. He ended up getting so worked up he made himself sick on the sidewalk. So yes I do remember plenty of road rage in the 60's.

[Michvalk]

I wonder if it's worse today, or just better reporting, what with the internet and all

[vanagon40]

A man is charged for "murdering and raping" a dog.   No comment about him or our society.

Murdering and raping a dog??............ In that order???
There's some sad b#stards in this world.

In the 1990's, I saw Larry "Uncle Lar'" Reeb at a local comedy club. I remember:

So I called into work and said I can't come to work today. I'm sick.

Response: You don't sound sick.

I said, "I'm f**king my dog in the basement. Do I sound sick now?


He had a very strange (and off-color) sense of humor.

[vanagon40]

Humans have been screwing up badly forever.

It's just that there's so many more of us now.  (cops too)

But do you remember road rage in the 50's - 60's?   (just an example)  

It's like daily here now.  

I am kind of embarrassed to say negative things about my Dad who has passed many years ago. But I don't think there were too many times that my Dad drove a vehicle without getting pissed at someone. I can remember him flipping people off, rolling down the window and cussing people out. Once when a drunk rear ended our 1 month old '64 Nova he tried to get the driver out of his car to no avail. He ended up getting so worked up he made himself sick on the sidewalk. So yes I do remember plenty of road rage in the 60's.

Another joke.

Grandpa took his grandson out for a drive every Sunday afternoon. It was a weekly ritual.

One week, grandpa was sick, so grandma filled in. After the drive, mom and dad asked their son how the drive was with grandma. The son said it was okay, but kind of boring.

When asked to clarify, he explained, "we drove for almost an hour, and never saw a single f**cking idiot, stupid dips*t, brain dead moron, pinko liberal, or a$$hole."

[FLAVALK]

I wonder if it's worse today, or just better reporting, what with the internet and all

This +1
The local news is now a recap of the police blotter.. the .nationwide police blotter  

[solo1]

As a final cap on things, I saw something here at the apartments the other day that had me shaking my head and then smiling.

I looked out the window and saw a lady resident pushing a very small baby carriage down our street.
I looked closer and noticed that it was covered in mosquito netting.........OK
  I did wonder why the buggy was so small. Gotta stop here and mention that I saw a lot of those carriages (baby buggies) when I was younger.

I went up to her and looked into the buggy.  It was a doggie buggy.  Inside was a Yorkie pawing at the netting.  I guess that the buggy was made for taking the Yorkie for its daily exercise?

I wonder if this'll catch on. .Maybe with a Great Dane or a Pit Bull dolled up in a bow?

Funny to me, but this whole world is turning funny.  

[Robert]

We are not only a fallen people we are a failed people. We failed from the day humans were on this earth. So why would we expect good to come out of failure? We have the choice everyday and its those choices that have gotten us to this point a constantly slippery slope of greed, self loving, money hungry, sexually explicit, not able to follow the rules or think about someones besides our own good.

I keep echoing the this in my mind.

Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other. John Adams

We did at one point teach kids from the Bible from Psalms, and Proverbs that taught wisdom and caring. We don't see that today and more importantly people share less of their Bible teaching so where would the kids and people today get wisdom and caring? We dont see it from a failed society and not from current role models plus experience can be a costly teacher that most are not willing to venture into. So its no surprise. Little id's and ego's walking around so self absorbed to not get the big picture.

[FLAVALK]

We are not only a fallen people we are a failed people. We failed from the day humans were on this earth. So why would we expect good to come out of failure? We have the choice everyday and its those choices that have gotten us to this point a constantly slippery slope of greed, self loving, money hungry, sexually explicit, not able to follow the rules or think about someones besides our own good.

I keep echoing the this in my mind.

Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other. John Adams

We did at one point teach kids from the Bible from Psalms, and Proverbs that taught wisdom and caring. We don't see that today and more importantly people share less of their Bible teaching so where would the kids and people today get wisdom and caring? We dont see it from a failed society and not from current role models plus experience can be a costly teacher that most are not willing to venture into. So its no surprise. Little id's and ego's walking around so self absorbed to not get the big picture.

Excellent post and spot on. People are now ridiculed and made fun of if they even mention the bible or conservative principles/teachings .....the very things that made this country great.

[Ramie]

It's my opinion that a great many people have stopped caring about anyone other than them selves.  They no longer have to help out others in need, (that's what the governments for) They see politicians getting elected and then leaving office wealthy (How did that happen) and believe its their right to take everything they can get.  They also have too much time on their hands and get bored so they come up with ways to be offended to occupy their time.  They see babies murdered weeks before they are born so human life has lost all value.  They are taught in most schools that man & woman did not have a creator, they are just a freak accident of nature and then they are taught that mother earth would be better off without man around.

Ephesians 2:12
"remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world."

[solo1]

We are now into the third generation of permissiveness, no responsibility, and no reality.

The Bible is being rejected because people don't like the standards that it imposes.  Instead, they pursue anything as long as it's a "Feel Good"

 As an Elder in my church, I'm tasked with calling on the no attendees in the church.  Many of these members put the blame solely on the church, its pastors, other members, but never on themselves.
They won't return my calls but they still want to remain members, even though they don't support the church.   What makes it even more difficult for me is that I'm not perfect either but being an 'Elder' the connotation is there.  Gotta keep at it tho.

Can you imagine taking Proverbs to heart and living it these days?  You would be immediately in trouble with our latest man made Laws.

Probably for my post and other posters here, we will be ridiculed here by some but to keep it clean, i'll just say that I don't care.

[The emperor has no clothes]

I don't remember anybody on here being ridiculed for speaking their religious beliefs. But my memory is not that good.

[solo1]

I can't remember either,  VRCC'rs are above the average, IMO.

[The emperor has no clothes]

I can't remember either,  VRCC'rs are above the average, IMO.

Wayne, I have the utmost respect for you and am not bringing this up to start an argument. But if that's the case why would you say in your previous post that you and others here would be ridiculed for your response ?

[Robert]

The other day I was pissed at myself and at someone else and thought for a moment about how Jesus came into the world and the words

a bruised reed he will not break, and a smoldering wick he will not quench, until he brings justice to victory

As I pondered on this with my upsetment at the current world situation I found myself like the Jews thinking why didnt He just bring the kingdom now. I then reflected

IF GOD COULD NOT GET PEOPLE TO BEHAVE LIKE THEY SHOULD, WHO AM I TO EXPECT A MIRACLE AND HAVE PEOPLE BE PERFECT.

It relieves me of perfection that is not attainable, but it also makes me accept the fallen nature of man and be a bit more tolerant towards others. I don't have to like whats happening, I don't have to allow it as much as it depends on me, but like a person with a disability I would not expect them to perform up to the standard that someone who doesn't have one does. I rely on Grace and the love of God everyday, I make mistakes and see dimly now also. So I observe and try my best not to choke someone who desperately needs it  not really kidding but make the decision to pray and hopefully allow grace that was extended to me to extend to them. They are blind, fallen, unknowing creation of a loving God that they have no idea exsists and cant even yield to Him.

I cannot imaging Jesus looking around Rome and seeing the fallen nature of man and the repulsion but also the compassion for this great creation that the Father had made for so much more.

Bless you all we are in the world we are not of the world, His grace and joy and peace will bring His children through regardless of the times.

Remember man will one day judge angels, what does that say about the our fallen nature now? Who are we really? What were we really made for? How great do we have the ability to be, in this world and the next.

[MP]

I don't remember anybody on here being ridiculed for speaking their religious beliefs. But my memory is not that good.

There were posts just the other day, by self proclaimed atheist, doing just that.  Name ends in -O.

[The emperor has no clothes]

I don't remember anybody on here being ridiculed for speaking their religious beliefs. But my memory is not that good.

There were posts just the other day, by self proclaimed atheist, doing just that.  Name ends in -O.

I don't remember that, so I went to his previous posts. I couldn't find anything going back to January that I would deem ridiculing of religious beliefs. But if I missed it and am mistaken I would sure like to be corrected.  (or is the problem that he is a self avowed atheist ?)

[MP]

I don't remember anybody on here being ridiculed for speaking their religious beliefs. But my memory is not that good.

There were posts just the other day, by self proclaimed atheist, doing just that.  Name ends in -O.

I don't remember that, so I went to his previous posts. I couldn't find anything going back to January that I would deem ridiculing of religious beliefs. But if I missed it and am mistaken I would sure like to be corrected.  (or is the problem that he is a self avowed atheist ?)

My apologies to O. It was dinosnake in thread from 4/17. Now locked.

[Willow]

I don't remember anybody on here being ridiculed for speaking their religious beliefs. But my memory is not that good.

There were posts just the other day, by self proclaimed atheist, doing just that.  Name ends in -O.

I don't remember that, so I went to his previous posts. I couldn't find anything going back to January that I would deem ridiculing of religious beliefs. But if I missed it and am mistaken I would sure like to be corrected.  (or is the problem that he is a self avowed atheist ?)

Self avowed atheist.  You do know that's no logical, don't you?  Let me distinguish between an atheist and an agnostic.  An agnostic claims he has not seen enough evidence to believe there is a God.  The atheist claims he knows there is no God.  The only way one could know there is no God is to have been everywhere and to know everything that exists.  To do that one would have to be God.

It's a self defeating argument.   

[98valk]

We are not only a fallen people we are a failed people. We failed from the day humans were on this earth. So why would we expect good to come out of failure? We have the choice everyday and its those choices that have gotten us to this point a constantly slippery slope of greed, self loving, money hungry, sexually explicit, not able to follow the rules or think about someones besides our own good.

I keep echoing the this in my mind.

Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other. John Adams

We did at one point teach kids from the Bible from Psalms, and Proverbs that taught wisdom and caring. We don't see that today and more importantly people share less of their Bible teaching so where would the kids and people today get wisdom and caring? We dont see it from a failed society and not from current role models plus experience can be a costly teacher that most are not willing to venture into. So its no surprise. Little id's and ego's walking around so self absorbed to not get the big picture.

Excellent post and spot on. People are now ridiculed and made fun of if they even mention the bible or conservative principles/teachings .....the very things that made this country great.

yes great posts R.

here is the full Adams quote.

"We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge, or gallantry, would break the strongest cords of our Constitution as a whale goes through a net.
 Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."
- John Adams to the Officers of the First Brigade of the Third Division of the Militia of Massachusetts, October 11, 1798

[The emperor has no clothes]

I don't remember anybody on here being ridiculed for speaking their religious beliefs. But my memory is not that good.

There were posts just the other day, by self proclaimed atheist, doing just that.  Name ends in -O.

I don't remember that, so I went to his previous posts. I couldn't find anything going back to January that I would deem ridiculing of religious beliefs. But if I missed it and am mistaken I would sure like to be corrected.  (or is the problem that he is a self avowed atheist ?)

Self avowed atheist.  You do know that's no logical, don't you?  Let me distinguish between an atheist and an agnostic.  An agnostic claims he has not seen enough evidence to believe there is a God.  The atheist claims he knows there is no God.  The only way one could know there is no God is to have been everywhere and to know everything that exists.  To do that one would have to be God.

It's a self defeating argument.   

Actually I didn't know that. I just assumed an atheist "believed" there was no god. Thank you, I have learned many things here. Motorcycle related and non motorcycle related. 

[Willow]

Actually I didn't know that. I just assumed an atheist "believed" there was no god. Thank you, I have learned many things here. Motorcycle related and non motorcycle related. 

It would be fair to state it in those terms but if a person is not thoroughly certain of his belief that there is no God then technically he would be agnostic, wouldn't he?

I guess the converse would be a believer who "believes" there is a God but is not quite certain of that belief.  That person wouldn't truly be a believer, would he?

Life is complex, is it not?

[czuch]

Atheist, "There is no God".
Agnostic, "There is no God, but just incase there is, Please God...".
Believer, "Thank you God".
Chamber of commerce day here in Tucson.
Only 90 for the high, I'm leaving work early and going for a ride.

[dinosnake]

I don't remember anybody on here being ridiculed for speaking their religious beliefs. But my memory is not that good.

There were posts just the other day, by self proclaimed atheist, doing just that.  Name ends in -O.

I don't remember that, so I went to his previous posts. I couldn't find anything going back to January that I would deem ridiculing of religious beliefs. But if I missed it and am mistaken I would sure like to be corrected.  (or is the problem that he is a self avowed atheist ?)

Self avowed atheist.  You do know that's no logical, don't you?  Let me distinguish between an atheist and an agnostic.  An agnostic claims he has not seen enough evidence to believe there is a God.  The atheist claims he knows there is no God.  The only way one could know there is no God is to have been everywhere and to know everything that exists.  To do that one would have to be God.

It's a self defeating argument.   

Actually I didn't know that. I just assumed an atheist "believed" there was no god. Thank you, I have learned many things here. Motorcycle related and non motorcycle related. 

Atheists do not believe in a god because there is no proof otherwise.  They ask for proof, none ever appears, so they simply work on that premise.  If proof can be provided, they will change their opinion.

What it is, is the same philosophical discussion as regarding the god of Abraham's inherent evilness, or at least trickery and ambivalence towards life.

"But god is good!", the Christians have told me as I grew up.

"Then why did he create sin, create death acc, more importantly for this discussion, create "hell" and decide to put ("souls") inside it?"

"God didn't create evil or hell", I was told.

"Then [he] is not god.  Either he created everything - and since when is evil and hell not part of "everything"? - or [he] did not.  It is a simple mathematical-level question.  Either what [he] did is all-inclusive, including creating combinations of things that form "evil", and create hell, or it isn't all-inclusive and therefore not god.  You can't have it both ways, god only does "good" and "evil" is someone else's fault, but still declare it "creator of the universe"."

...And that's why there are atheists.

[Willow]

Atheists do not believe in a god because there is no proof otherwise.  They ask for proof, none ever appears, so they simply work on that premise.  If proof can be provided, they will change their opinion.
...

What you describe is, by definition, not atheists but agnostics.

As to the argument that follows it can be played out but not to the satisfaction of one who has already decided that he knows what the answer is and will not be told otherwise.

My position would be that we as human beings are of limited intellectual capability.  There are many things that I cannot fully understand but that doesn't mean they are necessarily false because I cannot understand them.  There are certainly some things that people have asserted in their attempts to justify what they do or don't believe that are certainly false.

Perhaps sometimes we go awry when we attempt to apply our definitions and understanding to what is more than we can rightfully comprehend.  The story of the blind men visiting the elephant comes to mind.

I couldn't and wouldn't attempt to prove to the committed non-believer that God exists.  Truthfully, my belief is that only God could do that and will if the non-believer truly seeks to know God.  I believe that God exists.  Another believes He does not.  I rest in the comfort that if I am wrong I will never know.  If the other is wrong one day he will know for certain.

[Serk]

I believe that God exists.  Another believes He does not.  I rest in the comfort that if I am wrong I will never know.  If the other is wrong one day he will know for certain.

I.E. Pascal's Wager.

My counter to Pascal's Wager is thus: What if "we" are both wrong, there IS a god, but you got the wrong one, making Him even more angry than if you hadn't worshiped any at all.

I will stick to my stance - Live my life right, and by right I mean "Avoid hurting others, help when I can" and when this game is over, if there is another, hope that's enough to get to play, and if not, don't think I'd wanna be in the presences of one who judged on using the brain I was given to come to a different conclusion than on the actions I had taken.

But that's just my take.

And on an earlier discussion (I just got caught up on this thread) even in Atheist/Agnostic circles there's debate on what the demarcation between the two is. I agree with Willow in so much as to truly be an Atheist is a logical impossibility, but I've had others tell me Atheist means simply "Non-Theist" I.E. Without faith. Then they try to tell me that an Agnostic is just an Atheist without the courage to be an Atheist.

Oh well.

If your faith brings you comfort and/or helps you to be a better person, more power to you for it.

[solo1]

 I rest in the comfort that if I am wrong I will never know.  If the other is wrong one day he will know for certain.  Quote by Willow.

And therein lies the crux of the matter. As the saying goes "Whaddya got to lose"  

However, the catch is that A Christian tries to lead the life that God demands of us (The Law) and THAT is hard to do as we are sinners and have the sinful desire to do what is evil.  However, there is the Good News of the Gospel.

An agnostic is not bound to God's Law because he sees no proof of God and he is bound to Man's Law only to the extent where he might get caught and is concerned about punishment NOW.

Convoluted thinking on my part?  Maybe.

[Gryphon Rider]

The Biblical book of Romans provides much insight into the questions of belief in God, law, goodness, and evil.  I was going to copy and paste some of it here, but the more I read, the more I wanted to copy.  I'd rather simply refer you (plural) to a Bible.  If you're seeking Truth, that's the way to go.  If your reading prompts sincere questions, feel free to PM me with them or with your phone number.

[bigguy]

Yes, but a dyslexic agnostic will lay awake all night wonder if there really is a Dog.

[baldo]

Yes, but a dyslexic agnostic will lay awake all night wonder if there really is a Dog.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-4-gLlF0uw

[dinosnake]

Atheists do not believe in a god because there is no proof otherwise.  They ask for proof, none ever appears, so they simply work on that premise.  If proof can be provided, they will change their opinion.
...

What you describe is, by definition, not atheists but agnostics.

No, no, atheist.

http://atheism.about.com/od/aboutagnosticism/a/Atheist-vs-Agnostic-Difference.htm

Atheists do not believe, agnostics say they simply don't know.  Almost all atheists I've spoken to, myself included, do not believe because the premise is ridiculous, the statements hypocritical or the proof non-existent (pick any combination for each unique individual).  But since we are science-based, given proof we would have to reexamine the evidence.

On the other hand, there is no rule saying that agnostics can't believe, they are simply unable to know definitively.

[Valkorado]

dino quote:
"Then [he] is not god.  Either he created everything - and since when is evil and hell not part of "everything"?

Allowing and creating are very different things.

So you, an athiest, acknowledge hell?

Well, if everything in our mortal lives is "good" why should we even attempt to make choices?  Might as well do anything you want, it's all good.  Why even try to live a life worthy of God's approval?  If there is no consequence, just please yourself.