Johnathan Cahn ‘America’s prophet’ calls out Obama, Supreme Court justices

[Robert]

An awesome video of the Harbinger author Johnathan Cahn on Capital Hill delivering a message to the Supreme Court Justices asking by what authority did you strike down Gods definition of marriage. He also asks a question to Obama.

I think it will make most hearts glad to see this, to know that God is still in charge and asking questions to men by what authority. He also goes into a Americas founding vision, total video time 5 minutes and ends with a standing ovation.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifXPdgpJb24

[The emperor has no clothes]

America's Prophet ?

[dinosnake]

And who's god?

American authoritarianism at work.  Since when is his god in charge of this country?  Want your god in charge of your country?  Then go to a country where that is true - Iran works.

[Robert]

Well at least it got 2 responses and to

Dino

The God of Abraham Issac and Jacob has ALWAYS been the God of this country. If He is not your God then of course denying His Lordship over the US does nothing to change it.

It would be more honorable and beneficial to others, if you would leave. Rather than taking advantage of the benefits of a country and not understanding that this country was founded and run on Christian values that you do not agree with. Rather than trying to subvert or change it to something more of your liking, rather than supporting it.

Thank you by the way for suggesting Iran, but I know this country I was born in, how and why it was founded and am willing to support it. I am appreciative of those who founded and fought for this countries values. So I was trying to repay the kindness and come up with a country for you. But all I could think of was a place that existed awhile ago it was called Sodom and Gomorrah its appropriate and what we are trying to stop this country from being.

History lesson is wasted on you and Meathead has not a clue. But thanks guys for responding.

[Jack]

Another good reason to keep religion off m/c boards.

[old2soon]

The Rabbi asked questions I would ask AND I would like answers for. Those that have hardened their Heart against GOD are often hard to spot-other times they are not hard to spot. RIDE SAFE.

[The emperor has no clothes]

Well at least it got 2 responses and to

Dino

The God of Abraham Issac and Jacob has ALWAYS been the God of this country. If He is not your God then of course denying His Lordship over the US does nothing to change it.

It would be more honorable and beneficial to others, if you would leave. Rather than taking advantage of the benefits of a country and not understanding a country that was founded and run on Christian values that you do not agree with Rather than trying to subvert or change it to something more of your liking rather than supporting it.

Thank you by the way for suggesting Iran, but I know this country I was born in, how and why it was founded and am willing to support it. I am appreciative of those who founded and fought for this countries values. So I was trying to come up with a country for you but all I could think of was a place that existed awhile ago it was called Sodom and Gomorrah its appropriate and what we are trying to stop this country from being.

History lesson is wasted on you and Meathead has not a clue. But thanks guys for responding.

"And meathead has not a clue" ? All I asked was America's Prophet ? Maybe you are right, I have no clue how this guy should be considered America's Prophet.  ???

[Robert]

America's Prophet ?

Yes that is all you said, so do you want more information or not happy like Dino, sorry by 2 words I cannot extrapolate a meaning. I can give you information on him or why he was chosen to go to Capital Hill or even explain the book the Harbinger to you. So what do you want since I know we don't share the same views on many issues?

[Gryphon Rider]

We haven't seen a true prophet, in the Biblical sense of the word, since the times of the early Church, within the lifetimes of the original 13 (12 plus Paul) apostles.  See Deuteronomy 18:18-20.  Didn't Cahn prophesy that some great calamity was going to happen to America, climaxing on September 13, 2015?

Until Christ returns and establishes His earthly political kingdom, the degree to which any nation can claim the God of Abraham to be their god is directly proportional to the number of its citizens and leadership that are individually submitted to His leadership.  An official proclamation or motto stamped on it's currency has as much effective impact on reality as does a title deed for an acre of land on Mars.

2 Corinthians 4:4 declares who the true, current god of this world is, and doesn't mention an America exclusion.  John 17:16 and Philippians 3:20 talk about a Christian's true citizenship.

Romans 13:1-7 talks about what a Christian's attitude towards his earthly government should be, written at a time when Israel was under the occupation of a foreign heathen dictatorship.

[Robert]

Another good reason to keep religion off m/c boards.

You mean you clicked a religious message just to say that? I guess you don't agree?

[Jack]

Another good reason to keep religion off m/c boards.

You mean you clicked a religious message just to say that? I guess you don't agree?

Actually, I thought it was political but that is another topic that likely should not be on a m/c board.  My bad.

[The emperor has no clothes]

America's Prophet ?

Yes that is all you said, so do you want more information or not happy like Dino, sorry by 2 words I cannot extrapolate a meaning. I can give you information on him or why he was chosen to go to Capital Hill or even explain the book the Harbinger to you. So what do you want since I know we don't share the same views on many issues?

I think Gryphon Rider explained it better than I ever could. I would add that because somebody disagrees with the Supreme Court and Obama doesn't make him a Prophet for America or for anybody. 

[Wizzard]

An awesome video of the Harbinger author Johnathan Cahn on Capital Hill delivering a message to the Supreme Court Justices asking by what authority did you strike down Gods definition of marriage. He also asks a question to Obama.

I think it will make most hearts glad to see this, to know that God is still in charge and asking questions to men by what authority. He also goes into a Americas founding vision, total video time 5 minutes and ends with a standing ovation.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifXPdgpJb24

God will always be in charge no matter what the govt or you or I do. I take great comfort in that since I believe in him.

[Robert]

We haven't seen a true prophet, in the Biblical sense of the word, since the times of the early Church, within the lifetimes of the original 13 (12 plus Paul) apostles.  See Deuteronomy 18:18-20.  Didn't Cahn prophesy that some great calamity was going to happen to America, climaxing on September 13, 2015?

Until Christ returns and establishes His earthly political kingdom, the degree to which any nation can claim the God of Abraham to be their god is directly proportional to the number of its citizens and leadership that are individually submitted to His leadership.  An official proclamation or motto stamped on it's currency has as much real impact on reality as does a title deed for an acre of land on Mars.

2 Corinthians 4:4 declares who the true, current god of this world is, and doesn't mention an America exclusion.  John 17:16 and Philippians 3:20 talk about a Christian's true citizenship.

Romans 13:1-7 talks about what a Christian's attitude towards his earthly government should be, written at a time when Israel was under the occupation of a foreign heathen dictatorship.

As for Prophets and prophetic utterances are you saying that God cannot use anyone to issue a prophetic utterance?  Because if you do then please explain an Apostle telling everyone then and today to desire the Spiritual gifts given by the Holy Spirit. This is for us today and for the future and there is its the same Spirit that quickens in His people to know if the message is from God or from man. So While it was not done as the Old Testament its a new Covenant and Gods Spirit works in all His children. NOT as in the Old Testament where people did not have Gods laws in their heart and the Holy Spirit inside them.

1Co 12:3  So I want you to know that no one speaking by the Spirit of God will curse Jesus, and no one can say Jesus is Lord, except by the Holy Spirit.
1Co 12:4  There are different kinds of spiritual gifts, but the same Spirit is the source of them all.
1Co 12:5  There are different kinds of service, but we serve the same Lord.
1Co 12:6  God works in different ways, but it is the same God who does the work in all of us.
1Co 12:7  A spiritual gift is given to each of us so we can help each other.
1Co 12:8  To one person the Spirit gives the ability to give wise advice; to another the same Spirit gives a message of special knowledge.
1Co 12:9  The same Spirit gives great faith to another, and to someone else the one Spirit gives the gift of healing.
1Co 12:10  He gives one person the power to perform miracles, and another the ability to prophesy. He gives someone else the ability to discern whether a message is from the Spirit of God or from another spirit. Still another person is given the ability to speak in unknown languages, while another is given the ability to interpret what is being said.
1Co 12:11  It is the one and only Spirit who distributes all these gifts. He alone decides which gift each person should have.
1Co 12:12  The human body has many parts, but the many parts make up one whole body. So it is with the body of Christ.

This is supposed to be the modern church each working in their own gift given by the Spirit and each being touched by the message by the Spirit.

Joh_3:8  The wind blows wherever it wants. Just as you can hear the wind but can't tell where it comes from or where it is going, so you can't explain how people are born of the Spirit."


Are WE the church or is the church the building? Yes the world is the Devils but I thought God gave us the power to overcome?

Yes you do respect those in power and pray for them just like you pray for all things but that does not mean we and them do not get rebuked for wrong decisions or taking to lightly the things and positions that God has put us in. Surely you remember the writing on the wall, MENE, MENE, TEKEL, and PARSIN. How about Saul and Samuel 

So in your second statement does that mean if Israel rejects God then God is not the God of Israel as if Gods wishes can be cancelled by mans wishes?

We who are Christians today and are against the secular change in the US know full well that if God takes His blessings away then that place will not exsist any longer. Isn't that what we are fighting today?  Are we just to give up and let the secularists have their way?

Last thing if this country was Born by God then what was the purpose for this country and for its people? Do you think there will be no penalty if we do not do the things that God has called us to do?Would God put us here and not give us the ability and power to achieve what He has purposed us and this country to do? If He did then isn't it us that are not living to the fullness that God has given us.

[Willow]

...
It would be more honorable and beneficial to others, if you would leave. ...

Robert, I would strongly disagree. I am so glad I didn't leave when I wasn't following the lead of The God of Abraham.

Gryphon Rider does say it well.  The prophets that we point back to in the Old Testament were needed because of how limited the Word of God was, both in content and availability.  Today we have the written Word and have actually had since the closing of the Canon.  We can call folks prophets today who communicate God's word to folks who need to hear it but they don't fill the same role as did ancient prophets.

Honestly, I don't even know who Jonathan Cahn is.  If he is indeed America's prophet you would have thought the Lord would have let me know.

Incidentally, I'd be slow to take on the title of prophet.  Within the tales included in the Scriptures there are more instances of prophets delivering false messages than delivering true messages.  It was so much so that it seemed noteworthy when a prophet turned out to be truly speaking on God's behalf.

   

[J.Mencalice]

Biased opinion here:  In the good'ol U.S.of A. most of the "prophets" out there are somehow interested in the "profit" before they'll give you the prophecy. ???

[Robert]

Willow and Gryphon

Questions:
 Do you agree with the message given?

 Are we supposed to hear God today?

There has been alot of talk about the term prophet but not much else. Shame really to get hung up on the term and not the message. But it seems that some who do not agree about having the Lord in their lives got touched. Maybe this is more of an testament to the power of the message rather than the Christians who know the Lord.

[The emperor has no clothes]

America's Prophet ?

Yes that is all you said, so do you want more information or not happy like Dino, sorry by 2 words I cannot extrapolate a meaning. I can give you information on him or why he was chosen to go to Capital Hill or even explain the book the Harbinger to you. So what do you want since I know we don't share the same views on many issues?

I don't really want anything. My question was : What makes you think he is America's Prophet ? And even though we don't share the same views on many issues, I have no desire or do I think it would be honorable for you to leave. 

[Robert]

America's Prophet ?

Yes that is all you said, so do you want more information or not happy like Dino, sorry by 2 words I cannot extrapolate a meaning. I can give you information on him or why he was chosen to go to Capital Hill or even explain the book the Harbinger to you. So what do you want since I know we don't share the same views on many issues?

I don't really want anything. My question was : What makes you think he is America's Prophet ? And even though we don't share the same views on many issues, I have no desire or do I think it would be honorable for you to leave. 

The term "Americas prophet" should not have been the thing that was focused on. Small potatoes to the message that was delivered. Jesus's biggest opposition was not the unsaved but the religious. I and most probably would not care who delivered the message but that the message was delivered. I also guess that the ones on Capital Hill who applauded, invited him and received the message perceived who really spoke the message as greater in importance rather than questioning the term prophet.

Each focused on what was important to them, it gives a picture into the heart. Jesus said "my sheep know my voice".

[The emperor has no clothes]

America's Prophet ?

Yes that is all you said, so do you want more information or not happy like Dino, sorry by 2 words I cannot extrapolate a meaning. I can give you information on him or why he was chosen to go to Capital Hill or even explain the book the Harbinger to you. So what do you want since I know we don't share the same views on many issues?

I don't really want anything. My question was : What makes you think he is America's Prophet ? And even though we don't share the same views on many issues, I have no desire or do I think it would be honorable for you to leave. 

The term "Americas prophet" should not have been the thing that was focused on. Small potatoes to the message that was delivered. Jesus's biggest opposition was not the unsaved but the religious. I and most probably would not care who delivered the message but that the message was delivered. I also guess that the ones on Capital Hill who applauded, invited him and received the message perceived who really spoke the message as greater in importance rather than questioning the term prophet.

I guess I am just a questioning kind of guy. 

[Willow]

Willow and Gryphon

Questions:
 Do you agree with the message given?

 Are we supposed to hear God today?  

I agree with most if not all his points of what is right and what is wrong.  I don't agree with equating the U.S. of A. with ancient Israel in God's plan.  I don't at all agree with his expectation of President Obama and the Supreme Court justices to adhere to God's law.

In another post you referred to Jesus biggest opposition was not the unsaved but the religious.  I was not entirely clear of what you meant by those two categories.  I would propose that they largely overlap.  On to the point - if you believe President Obama and the justices of the Supreme Court (as a whole or a majority of) to be followers of Christ you have some big issues that need to be addressed.

As to where I stand on the decisions made of late in government by the president, the congress, and the Supreme Court, these people represent the majority or at least a large voting plurality of the people of the United States of America.  Our issue is not so much with these few representatives as were any to step aside there are myriads ready to step into their places.  Our issue is with the direction and choices of the American culture and if we are focusing intensely on the last few decisions we are late in the game.  It's been coming for a long time.

Oh, second question, are we supposed to hear God today?  We believers are supposed to hear God today, first and primarily through the reading of His Word.  We do not expect unbelievers to hear God's voice in any way until they have responded to His call to follow Him.

[Robert]

Willow and Gryphon

Questions:
 Do you agree with the message given?

 Are we supposed to hear God today? 

I agree with most if not all his points of what is right and what is wrong.  I don't agree with equating the U.S. of A. with ancient Israel in God's plan.  I don't at all agree with his expectation of President Obama and the Supreme Court justices to adhere to God's law.

In another post you referred to Jesus biggest opposition was not the unsaved but the religious.  I was not entirely clear of what you meant by those two categories.  I would propose that they largely overlap.  On to the point - if you believe President Obama and the justices of the Supreme Court (as a whole or a majority of) to be followers of Christ you have some big issues that need to be addressed.

As to where I stand on the decisions made of late in government by the president, the congress, and the Supreme Court, these people represent the majority or at least a large voting plurality of the people of the United States of America.  Our issue is not so much with these few representatives as were any to step aside there are myriads ready to step into their places.  Our issue is with the direction and choices of the American culture and if we are focusing intensely on the last few decisions we are late in the game.  It's been coming for a long time.

Oh, second question, are we supposed to hear God today?  We believers are supposed to hear God today, first and primarily through the reading of His Word.  We do not expect unbelievers to hear God's voice in any way until they have responded to His call to follow Him.

Do you believe that God is the same today as yesterday, then why would God not follow the same pattern as Israel?

Since they swear on the Bible what does that really mean? Do they think there is no significance and not knowing who they are answering to?

I don't agree that the elected officials represent us or a majority of the population. If they did why have they not heard the complaints and are blindsided by the popularity of Trump? To the point they even admit it.

Why is the Gospel called the Gospel shoes?

Eph 6:13  Therefore, take up the full armor of God, so that you will be able to resist in the evil day, and having done everything, to stand firm.
Eph 6:14  Stand firm therefore, HAVING GIRDED YOUR LOINS WITH TRUTH, and HAVING PUT ON THE BREASTPLATE OF RIGHTEOUSNESS,
Eph 6:15  and having shod YOUR FEET WITH THE PREPARATION OF THE GOSPEL OF PEACE;
Eph 6:16  in addition to all, taking up the shield of faith with which you will be able to extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one.
Eph 6:17  And take THE HELMET OF SALVATION, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.

Joh_16:13  "But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come.

Joh_10:27  "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;

If you think the unsaved dont hear Gods voice then how do we get saved?

Can God only work on world events through the saved?

Joh 1:1  In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

[Oss]

I have read a lot of his stuff and seen many of his videos over the years.  

Robert are you aware that Cahn is a messianic rabbi, which is to say that if one were to follow the argument to its logical conclusion that Jesus could not possibly be the Messiah although he was a prophet.
PM me and I can send you the links I have them somewhere Im sure

Messianic folks are waiting for the Messiah.  In Judaism the Messiah (moshiach) has not come because we are still alive. I like being alive so far.  Watching the world destroyed while I watch my family die is not one of the top 10 things I look forward to seeing. Whether I think Obama is the antichrist is another story not for this board.

In the video you mentioned at the top of your post and in your later post you refered to the 2 cities destroyed Sodom and Gom.  In Genesis, Abraham argues with the Lord to save the city if there are 50 righteous, then 40 and so on.  It doesnt go well but the message is that the Lord is willing to forestall the judgment if enough people follow his rules(laid out almost 500 yrs later).

Cahn is asking for people to pray for the Lord's mercy in the same way Abraham pleaded with the Lord for Sodom and Gemmorah.

Whether or not you believe Jesus is the Lord, believe in marriage between same sex etc, I BELIEVE you can still believe in the power of prayer and to pray for our country, our world and our families.

Saying this or that person is beyond understanding is not someplace I like to go, and I am not trying to convert anyone, just to clear the
message of Cahn to those who might not have followed the video.

I prefer the words of Isaiah  which are read on Yom Kippur the fast day and holiest day of the year for Jews

Why, when we fasted, did You not see? When we starved our bodies, did You pay no heed? Because on your fast day you see to your business and oppress all your laborers!
 Because you fast in strife and contention, and you strike with a wicked fist! Your fasting today is not such as to make your voice heard on high.
 Is such the fast I desire, a day for men to starve their bodies? Is it bowing the head like a bulrush and lying in sackcloth and ashes? Do you call that a fast, a day when the Lord is favorable?
 No, this is the fast I desire: To unlock the fetters of wickedness, and untie the cords of the yoke to let the oppressed go free; to break off every yoke.
 It is to share your bread with the hungry, and to take the wretched poor into your home; when you see the naked, to clothe him, and not to ignore your own kin."

In the end its up to each of us

Best wishes on the last 2 days of Passover to all of you

[Robert]

I have read a lot of his stuff and seen many of his videos over the years. 

Robert are you aware that Cahn is a messianic rabbi, which is to say that if one were to follow the argument to its logical conclusion that Jesus could not possibly be the Messiah although he was a prophet.
PM me and I can send you the links I have them somewhere I'm sure

I know, my good friend who is a minister to the Jews and goes to Israel regularly and knows him very well is the one that got him to reveal the message that God gave him instead of keeping it in a drawer. Jesus was a Jew Happy Passover

  I have been listening to and reading the Jewish texts and you get such a depth of information from them. I must say the Jewish language is very descriptive.

If you watch the video he says hes the God of the resurrection.

In the Bible it says that the Jews have been blinded for a time until the time of the Gentiles has been fulfilled.

Rom 11:24  For if you were cut off from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these who are the natural branches be grafted into their own olive tree?
Rom 11:25  For I do not want you, brethren, to be uninformed of this mystery--so that you will not be wise in your own estimation--that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in;
Rom 11:26  and so all Israel will be saved; just as it is written, "THE DELIVERER WILL COME FROM ZION, HE WILL REMOVE UNGODLINESS FROM JACOB."
Rom 11:27  "THIS IS MY COVENANT WITH THEM, WHEN I TAKE AWAY THEIR SINS."
Rom 11:28  From the standpoint of the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but from the standpoint of God's choice they are beloved for the sake of the fathers;
Rom 11:29  for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
Rom 11:30  For just as you once were disobedient to God, but now have been shown mercy because of their disobedience,
Rom 11:31  so these also now have been disobedient, that because of the mercy shown to you they also may now be shown mercy.

The depth of your understanding of the message delivered by Cahn is something I wish all would have. There is a richness the more you understand the meaning of what is being said.

[Gryphon Rider]

As for Prophets and prophetic utterances are you saying that God cannot use anyone to issue a prophetic utterance?

I'm not saying He can't.  I am saying He hasn't given us new revelation since the ink of the last word of the New Testament dried.  God illuminates and repeats His words in the hearts of those He calls, but new information?  No.

Because if you do then please explain an Apostle telling everyone then and today to desire the Spiritual gifts given by the Holy Spirit. This is for us today and for the future and there is its the same Spirit that quickens in His people to know if the message is from God or from man. So While it was not done as the Old Testament its a new Covenant and Gods Spirit works in all His children. NOT as in the Old Testament where people did not have Gods laws in their heart and the Holy Spirit inside them.

1Co 12:3  So I want you to know that no one speaking by the Spirit of God will curse Jesus, and no one can say Jesus is Lord, except by the Holy Spirit.
1Co 12:4  There are different kinds of spiritual gifts, but the same Spirit is the source of them all.
1Co 12:5  There are different kinds of service, but we serve the same Lord.
1Co 12:6  God works in different ways, but it is the same God who does the work in all of us.
1Co 12:7  A spiritual gift is given to each of us so we can help each other.
1Co 12:8  To one person the Spirit gives the ability to give wise advice; to another the same Spirit gives a message of special knowledge.
1Co 12:9  The same Spirit gives great faith to another, and to someone else the one Spirit gives the gift of healing.
1Co 12:10  He gives one person the power to perform miracles, and another the ability to prophesy. He gives someone else the ability to discern whether a message is from the Spirit of God or from another spirit. Still another person is given the ability to speak in unknown languages, while another is given the ability to interpret what is being said.
1Co 12:11  It is the one and only Spirit who distributes all these gifts. He alone decides which gift each person should have.
1Co 12:12  The human body has many parts, but the many parts make up one whole body. So it is with the body of Christ.

This is supposed to be the modern church each working in their own gift given by the Spirit and each being touched by the message by the Spirit.

Joh_3:8  The wind blows wherever it wants. Just as you can hear the wind but can't tell where it comes from or where it is going, so you can't explain how people are born of the Spirit."

We still have spiritual gifts to use for the building up of His body, but when God had accomplished His purpose in the endowment and use of the miraculous gifts, and as those whom He had given those gifts died, they passed away.  The other gifts remain.

1 Cor 13:8-10  Love never ends. As for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away.  For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away.

Do I mean that miracles no longer happen?  No.  What I mean is that Christians are no longer given the ability to command miracles and healings.  We can ask God, and on rare occasions He grants them, but we cannot command healings with the expectation that God will provide them because we have so commanded, regardless of how much faith we have that it will be so.  Christians no longer have the authority to proclaim something as the Word of the Lord that they haven't already received in Scripture.  Christians no longer have the ability to proclaim the Gospel in languages they have not previously learned (a.k.a. speaking in tongues).  What people practise today as "speaking in tongues," a.k.a. glossolalia, has been studied by linguists and declared to have nothing in common with actual language, and has no precedent in Scripture.

Are WE the church or is the church the building? Yes the world is the Devils but I thought God gave us the power to overcome?

1 John 5:2-5  By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and obey his commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome. For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith. Who is it that overcomes the world except the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?

Overcoming the world isn't defeating political opponents to politically rule an earthly domain!  Overcoming the world is overcoming the world's sinful system's influence on our character, allowing us to be obedient to God's commands.  The fact that you have been born of God means that you have overcome the world.  You are no longer OF the world!

John 16:33b - "In the world you will have tribulation. But take heart; I have overcome the world.”

Yes you do respect those in power and pray for them just like you pray for all things but that does not mean we and them do not get rebuked for wrong decisions or taking to lightly the things and positions that God has put us in. Surely you remember the writing on the wall, MENE, MENE, TEKEL, and PARSIN. How about Saul and Samuel 

So in your second statement does that mean if Israel rejects God then God is not the God of Israel as if Gods wishes can be cancelled by mans wishes?

Israel has rejected God, but they (the nation of the descendants of Jacob) are still His people, according to God's covenants.  When Christ returns, He will save them, taking away their sins, using Zion as his capital.  This act is accomplished entirely by God, not by the efforts of secular Israel, aided by the United States of America.  People physically descended from Jacob do not get an automatic pass into heaven by virtue of their DNA.  Their salvation, like ours as gentiles, depends on His grace of regenerating them and giving them saving faith.  See Romans 11.

We who are Christians today and are against the secular change in the US know full well that if God takes His blessings away then that place will not exsist any longer. Isn't that what we are fighting today?  Are we just to give up and let the secularists have their way?

We exercise the rights that we have in a democracy to influence those in power.

Last thing if this country was Born by God then what was the purpose for this country and for its people? Do you think there will be no penalty if we do not do the things that God has called us to do? Would God put us here and not give us the ability and power to achieve what He has purposed us and this country to do? If He did then isn't it us that are not living to the fullness that God has given us.

The US is not "born by God" in the sense that God has declared a special purpose for the US in the way that He has for Israel.  God has His purpose in the establishment of all nations for His own purposes.  Perhaps God enabled the independence of the US as a place for Christianity to flourish and influence the world for Christ, just as God used Egypt to prosper Israel as they grew into the nation that He led into Canaan.

Do you believe that God is the same today as yesterday, then why would God not follow the same pattern as Israel?

God is immutable, but His methods change according to His purpose.

Since they swear on the Bible what does that really mean? Do they think there is no significance and not knowing who they are answering to?

I don't agree that the elected officials represent us or a majority of the population. If they did why have they not heard the complaints and are blindsided by the popularity of Trump? To the point they even admit it.

Why is the Gospel called the Gospel shoes?

Eph 6:13  Therefore, take up the full armor of God, so that you will be able to resist in the evil day, and having done everything, to stand firm.
Eph 6:14  Stand firm therefore, HAVING GIRDED YOUR LOINS WITH TRUTH, and HAVING PUT ON THE BREASTPLATE OF RIGHTEOUSNESS,
Eph 6:15  and having shod YOUR FEET WITH THE PREPARATION OF THE GOSPEL OF PEACE;
Eph 6:16  in addition to all, taking up the shield of faith with which you will be able to extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one.
Eph 6:17  And take THE HELMET OF SALVATION, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.

Joh_16:13  "But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come.

Joh_10:27  "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;

If you think the unsaved dont hear Gods voice then how do we get saved?

God makes them alive to Him, enabling them to hear and believe.  Until God does that, they are unable to hear and be saved.

Can God only work on world events through the saved?

Of course not.  God uses even Satan for His purposes.

[art]

Another good reason to keep religion off m/c boards.

:cooldude:I agree 100%

[art]

Motorcycle related?

[Robert]

Motorcycle related?

Yup we are all motorcycle drivers on a motorcycle board that allows threads like this and expects most to have the self control not to click on the post if they do not want to get involved in a religious thread.

If you want to make this motorcycle related then every Sunday I ride my Valkyrie to church and sometimes pray on my rides.

[sandy]

In a country where we have "separation of church and state": This guy thinks that god's rules should govern the country. Remember "Life, Liberty and the pursuit of happiness" means there's no law for an American to not marry who he/she wants. Within the confines of a religion, different rules may apply without gov't intervention. It's called "freedom".

As for god's rules governing a country, we already have that. It's called Sharia law and we all know how well that concept would be accepted here.

 

[Robert]

Gryphon

If the Holy Spirit performed miracles through Jesus and the apostles then why should we be any different if its the same Holy Spirit? As long as we are Baptized in the Holy Spirit which is the day of Pentecost. Can you show me where it says these miracles stopped besides the passage you quoted that refers to the time when Jesus actually comes rather than today. Why when Jesus did miracles to show the power of God and He is our example would you think that example of how we should be has changed? Are we not still Apostles and prophets according to 1Co 12:4  There are different kinds of spiritual gifts, but the same Spirit is the source of them all.  We are instructed to desire these gifts.

Below are faith healers with documented healings that would seem to contradict what you said.

Smith Wigglesworth
http://www.smithwigglesworth.com/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smith_Wigglesworth

Kathryn Khulman
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8c828KAjbM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMJJnET0HN4

The Azusa Street Revival of 1906
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cui9x_aWXuk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8Kjc6Qdtko

AIMEE SEMPLE MCPHERSON
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u76D3UyDC2M


God's Generals- Maria Woodworth Etter
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qifpR02rmhg

This is the end of that scripture

1Co 13:9  For we know in part and we prophesy in part;

1Co 13:10  but when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away.

1Co 13:11  When I was a child, I used to speak like a child, think like a child, reason like a child; when I became a man, I did away with childish things.
1Co 13:12  For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face; now I know in part, but then I will know fully just as I also have been fully known.
1Co 13:13  But now faith, hope, love, abide these three; but the greatest of these is love.

[Robert]

In a country where we have "separation of church and state": This guy thinks that god's rules should govern the country. Remember "Life, Liberty and the pursuit of happiness" means there's no law for an American to not marry who he/she wants. Within the confines of a religion, different rules may apply without gov't intervention. It's called "freedom".

As for god's rules governing a country, we already have that. It's called Sharia law and we all know how well that concept would be accepted here.

 

If you can find anywhere that it says that phrase let me know. 

Why do you think you are not in a country that is supposed to be ruled by Gods law's? We are guaranteed religious expression, Sharia law does not. Why do you think that is one of our guaranteed rights? I would find out what Gods law says before I comment because maybe its not what you are thinking.

[The emperor has no clothes]

In a country where we have "separation of church and state": This guy thinks that god's rules should govern the country. Remember "Life, Liberty and the pursuit of happiness" means there's no law for an American to not marry who he/she wants. Within the confines of a religion, different rules may apply without gov't intervention. It's called "freedom".

As for god's rules governing a country, we already have that. It's called Sharia law and we all know how well that concept would be accepted here.

 

If you can find anywhere that it says that phrase let me know. 

Why do you think you are not in a country that is supposed to be ruled by Gods law's? We are guaranteed religious expression, Sharia law does not. Why do you think that is one of our guaranteed rights? I would find out what Gods law says before I comment because maybe its not what you are thinking.

Isn't "The Congress shall make no laws respecting an establishment of religion " just another way of saying the separation of church and state ?

[Robert]

Actually no it means there shall be no state or government run religion. The king of England established a religion and basically you had to be that and it was for the purpose of control. That is what the Founders were getting away from so we could be free men.

[The emperor has no clothes]

Actually no it means there shall be no state or government run religion. The king of England established a religion and basically you had to be that and it was for the purpose of control. That is what the Founders were getting away from so we could be free men.

I think Thomas Jefferson would disagree with your assessment.
Separation of church and state" is a phrase used by Thomas Jefferson and others expressing an understanding of the intent and function of the Establishment Clause and Free Exercise Clause of the First Amendment to the Constitution of the United States which reads: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."

[Robert]

Actually no it means there shall be no state or government run religion. The king of England established a religion and basically you had to be that and it was for the purpose of control. That is what the Founders were getting away from so we could be free men.

I think Thomas Jefferson would disagree with your assessment.
Separation of church and state" is a phrase used by Thomas Jefferson and others expressing an understanding of the intent and function of the Establishment Clause and Free Exercise Clause of the First Amendment to the Constitution of the United States which reads: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."

establishment of religion

Its not Jefferson that disagrees its you, as far as my research is, I have never found him using the words separation of church and state. I know where they are from and its no formal document.

Directly quoted out of the dictionary

es·tab·lish
iˈstabliSH/
verb
verb: establish; 3rd person present: establishes; past tense: established; past participle: established; gerund or present participle: establishing

    1.
    set up (an organization, system, or set of rules) on a firm or permanent basis.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_religion

A state religion (also called an established religion, state church, established church, or official religion) is a religious body or creed officially endorsed by the state. A state with an official religion, while not secular, is not necessarily a theocracy – a country whose rulers have in their hands both secular and spiritual authority.

The “rotteness” of the Roman Catholic Church was at the heart of Martin Luther’sattack on it in 1517 when he wrote the “95 Theses” thus sparking off the German Reformation.

In 1500 the Roman Catholic Church was all powerful in western Europe. There was no legal alternative. The Catholic Church jealously guarded its position and anybody who was deemed to have gone against the Catholic Church was labelled a heretic and burnt at the stake. The Catholic Church did not tolerate any deviance from its teachings as any appearance of ‘going soft’ might have been interpreted as a sign of weakness which would be exploited.


If you compare that definition and what was happening in the church and country with this I think you will get the difference

The Mayflower Compact

In the name of God, Amen. We, whose names are underwritten, the loyal subjects of our dread Sovereigne Lord, King James, by the grace of God, of Great Britaine, France and Ireland king, defender of the faith, etc.

having undertaken, for the glory of God, and advancement of the Christian faith, and honour of our king and country, a voyage to plant the first colony in the Northerne parts of Virginia,

   doe by these presents solemnly and mutually in the presence of God and one of another, covenant and combine ourselves together into a civill body politick, for our better ordering and preservation, and furtherance of the ends aforesaid; and by virtue hereof to enacte, constitute, and frame such just and equall laws, ordinances, acts, constitutions and offices, from time to time, as shall be thought most meete and convenient for the generall good of the Colonie unto which we promise all due submission and obedience. In witness whereof we have hereunder subscribed our names at Cape-Codd the 11. of November, in the year of the raigne of our sovereigne lord, King James, of England, France and Ireland, the eighteenth, and of Scotland the fiftie-fourth. Anno Dom. 1620.

http://www.ushistory.org/documents/mayflower.htm

When the Founders drew up the Constitution they did not want a repeat of England's state sponsored church that was the intent of that phrase. The terror of England enforcing religious laws on top of secular laws would be fresh in the minds of all who drew up the Constitution.

Today we think we have secular oppression at the hands of the religious.

But that is not the case now or then.

It was those in power who were secular being rulers, kings and appointed clergy oppressing all under them.

It had nothing to do with the true content or teachings of the Bible. Just as in Jesus time.

 The sad thing is religion got the blame for the rulers using the Bible as a rule book and it had nothing to do with what the Bible really said or what Jesus and the Bible taught.

[Valkorado]

As you will learn, this is one of the many reasons why History is no longer taught in our public schools.

When Thomas Jefferson saw there was no negotiating with Muslims, he formed what is now the Marines (sea going soldiers).  These Marines were attached to U. S. Merchant vessels. When the Muslims attacked U.S. merchant vessels they were repulsed by armed soldiers, but there is more.
 
The Marines followed the Muslims back to their villages and killed every man, woman, and child in the village. It didn't take long for the Muslims to leave U.S. Merchant vessels alone. English and French merchant vessels started running up our flag when entering the Mediterranean to secure safe travel. Why the Marine Hymn contains the verse, "To the Shores of Tripoli". This is very interesting and a must read piece of our history.  It points out where we may be heading.

Most Americans are unaware of the fact that over two hundred years ago the United States had declared war on Islam, and Thomas Jefferson led the charge! At the height of the 18th century, Muslim pirates (the "Barbary Pirates") were the terror of the Mediterranean and a large area of the North Atlantic. They attacked every ship in sight, and held the crews for exorbitant ransoms.  Those taken hostage were subjected to barbaric treatment and wrote heart-breaking letters home, begging their governments and families to pay whatever their Mohammedan captors demanded.

These extortionists of the high seas represented the North African Islamic nations of Tripoli, Tunis, Morocco, and Algiers - collectively referred to as the Barbary Coast - and presented a dangerous and unprovoked threat to the new American Republic.
Before the Revolutionary War, U.S. merchant ships had been under the protection of Great Britain.  When the U.S. declared its independence and entered into war, the ships of the United States were protected by France. However, once the war was won, America had to protect its own fleets.

Thus, the birth of the U.S. Navy.  Beginning in 1784, 17 years before he would become president, Thomas Jefferson became America's Minister to France.  That same year, the U.S. Congress sought to appease its Muslim adversaries by following in the footsteps of European nations who paid bribes to the Barbary States rather than engaging them in war.

In July of 1785, Algerian pirates captured American ships, and the Dye of Algiers demanded an unheard-of ransom of $60,000.  It was a plain and simple case of extortion, and Thomas Jefferson was vehemently opposed to any further payments. Instead, he proposed to Congress the formation of a coalition of allied nations who together could force the Islamic states into peace.  A disinterested Congress decided to pay the ransom.

In 1786, Thomas Jefferson and John Adams met with Tripoli's ambassador to Great Britain to ask by what right his nation attacked American ships and enslaved American citizens, and why Muslims held so much hostility towards America, a nation with which they had no previous contacts.
 
The two future presidents reported that Ambassador Sidi Haji Abdul Rahman Adja had answered that Islam "was founded on the Laws of their Prophet, that it was written in their Quran that all nations who would not acknowledge their authority were sinners, that it was their right and duty to make war upon them wherever they could be found, and to make slaves of all they could take as prisoners, and that every Musselman (Muslim) who should be slain in battle was sure to go to Paradise."
 
Despite this stunning admission of premeditated violence on non-Muslim nations, as well as the objections of many notable American leaders, including George Washington, who warned that caving in was both wrong and would only further embolden the enemy, for the following fifteen years the American government paid the Muslims millions of dollars for the safe passage of American ships or the return of American hostages.
The payments in ransom and tribute amounted to over 20 percent of the United States government annual revenues in 1800.
 
Jefferson was disgusted.  Shortly after his being sworn in as the third President of the United States in 1801, the Pasha of Tripoli sent him a note demanding the immediate payment of $225,000 plus $25,000 a year for every year forthcoming. That changed everything. Jefferson let the Pasha know, in no uncertain terms, what he could do with his demand.  The Pasha responded by cutting down the flagpole at the American consulate and declared war on the United States. Tunis, Morocco, and Algiers immediately followed suit.
 
Jefferson, until now, had been against America raising a naval force for anything beyond coastal defense,but, having watched his nation be cowed by Islamic thuggery for long enough, decided that it was finally time to meet force with force. He dispatched a squadron of frigates to the Mediterranean and taught the Muslim nations of the Barbary Coast a lesson he hoped they would never forget.  Congress authorized Jefferson to empower U.S. ships to seize all vessels and goods of the Pasha of Tripoli and to "cause to be done all other acts of precaution or hostility as the state of war would justify".     
 
When Algiers and Tunis, who were both accustomed to American cowardice and acquiescence, saw the newly independent United States had both the will and the right to strike back, they quickly abandoned their allegiance to Tripoli. The war with Tripoli lasted for four more years, and raged up again in 1815.  The bravery of the U.S. Marine Corps in these wars led to the line "to the shores of Tripoli" in the Marine Hymn, and they would forever be known as "leathernecks" for the leather collars of their uniforms, designed to prevent their heads from being cut off by the Muslim scimitars when boarding enemy ships. Islam, and what its Barbary followers justified doing in the name of their prophet and their god, disturbed Jefferson quite deeply.
 
America had a tradition of religious tolerance. In fact Jefferson, himself, had co-authored the Virginia Statute for Religious Freedom, but fundamentalist Islam was like no other religion the world had ever seen. A religion based on supremacy, whose holy book not only condoned but mandated violence against unbelievers, was unacceptable to him. His greatest fear was that someday this brand of Islam would return and pose an even greater threat to the United States.
 
This should concern every American.  That Muslims have brought about women-only classes and separate swimming times at taxpayer-funded universities and public pools; that Christians, Jews, and Hindus have been banned from serving on juries where Muslim defendants are being judged; Piggy banks and Porky Pig tissue dispensers have been banned from workplaces because they offend Islamist sensibilities; ice cream has been discontinued at certain Burger King locations because the picture on the wrapper looks similar to the Arabic script for Allah; public schools are pulling pork from their menus; on and on and on and on.
 
It's death by a thousand cuts, or inch-by-inch as some refer to it, and most Americans have no idea that this battle is being waged every day across America.  By not fighting back, by allowing groups to obfuscate what is really happening, and not insisting that the Islamists adapt to our culture, the United States is cutting its own throat with a politically correct knife, and helping to further the Islamists' agenda.
 
Sadly, it appears that today America's leaders would rather be politically correct than victorious! Not only Muslims, but many other issues that are destroying the fabric of American values. God help our children!  History will remember the "rise and fall of the American Empire".

If you have any doubts about the above information, Google "Thomas Jefferson vs. the Muslim World."

[Robert]

Valkorado

Yes very well written and all true in fact that is where the secularists get that this nation is not a Christian Nation.


Under pressure to sign a treaty we still had to agree on this in the treaty.

http://avalon.law.yale.edu/18th_century/bar1796t.asp

ARTICLE 11.

As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion,-as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion or tranquility of Musselmen,-and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.

The acts of omission in US history are planed not an accident

[Valkorado]

Didn't write it Robert, but it should be required reading for evey American, especially millennials.   

Netherlands art contest "Multiculturalism In Europe" winner.



http://mudgeonsmusings.blogspot.com/

[The emperor has no clothes]

Jefferson and the Bill of Rights   Edit
Main articles: Establishment Clause and Free Exercise Clause

Thomas Jefferson, the third President of the United States, whose letter to the Danbury Baptists Association is often quoted in debates regarding the separation of church and state.
In English, the exact term is an offshoot of the phrase, "wall of separation between church and state", as written in Thomas Jefferson's letter to the Danbury Baptist Association in 1802. In that letter, referencing the First Amendment to the United States Constitution, Jefferson writes:

Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between Church and State.[20]
It seems you are incorrect again Robert. 

[Robert]

Jefferson and the Bill of Rights   Edit
Main articles: Establishment Clause and Free Exercise Clause

Thomas Jefferson, the third President of the United States, whose letter to the Danbury Baptists Association is often quoted in debates regarding the separation of church and state.
In English, the exact term is an offshoot of the phrase, "wall of separation between church and state", as written in Thomas Jefferson's letter to the Danbury Baptist Association in 1802. In that letter, referencing the First Amendment to the United States Constitution, Jefferson writes:

Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between Church and State.[20]
It seems you are incorrect again Robert. 

letter to the Danbury Baptists Association

Since when does a letter to the Baptists Association become an official document establishing direction for the policy of the US?

make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,

Now that you found that find the reason they requested the letter.

It would also be nice to explain the reason you think I am incorrect of course after you find the reason for the letter.