history is being set in Indiana this week.....

[FryeVRCCDS0067]

The 2nd Amendment is here to stay. Everyone said Obama would end it also. I've still got mine and sure you've still got yours. Yes I'm sure if Clinton wins things are not going to go the direction you and many others want. But the end of America ? COME ON 

The end of America as we knew it.  You can't eat an elephant in one bite and the progressive liberal socialists have been eating away at the way things were nibble by nibble.  They have changed things, little by little.  Making things we as once didn't agree with more palatable and insignificant they invoke subtle change.  As someone said above., once they get their folks seated in the Supreme Court, things will change much faster. 

Its not going to be the "America as we knew it" regardless. We could have 9 conservatives on the Supreme Court and things are still going to change. It's just the nature of our country. Surely you don't want to go back to the America as we new it where we were segregated, where workers died an early death because of unsafe working conditions, where child labor was ok, where women were property. My point is not everything was rosy back as "America as we knew it". We just tend to overlook those things and think nostalgically of the past. ITS NOT GOING TO BE THE END OF AMERICA NO MATTER IF CLINTON OR TRUMP IS THE PRESIDENT. 

We're not talking about minor changes, we talking about Clinton installing judges who intend to overthrow our bill of rights. I stand my words. The next president will appoint at least one justice, if that justice doesn't support our 2nd Amendment rights, we will lose those rights. That's very predictable, very simple and I don't see how anyone can doubt it.

If we lose the Freedoms our Constitution is designed to preserve, the freedoms that make us unique in the world, we are no longer America. That seems pretty simple too.

The same things were said 8 years ago.  YOU ARE NOT GOING TO LOSE YOUR 2nd AMENDMENT RIGHTS. I stand by my words also. We will have to further this discussion in 8 years. 

Thankfully, you are right this same discussion was going on 8 years ago. Who would have dreamed those 5 justices voting in support of our individual rights would have lasted as long as they did? Our country has been blessed by their longevity to be sure.

If we can avoid filling the open seat for another 8 years and the remaining 4 can last another 8 years then you are right and we are safe.

Now tell me with your hand on your heart that you truly believe that is how it will play out? If not, then feel free to explain the mechanics of keeping our freedom safe if Hillary is elected?

[The emperor has no clothes]

Frye, please don't think that I am pushing for a Clinton presidency. There were many ahead of her as my choice. What I am trying to say is the talk of "It's the end of America " is just not rational in my opinion. All of our rights that are defined in the Bill of rights are here to stay. Yes there is a chance that we could have some limits on the size of magazines (take note Detn8r) or some background checks or something along those lines. That is hardly the end of America.

[MP]

Frye, please don't think that I am pushing for a Clinton presidency. There were many ahead of her as my choice. What I am trying to say is the talk of "It's the end of America " is just not rational in my opinion. All of our rights that are defined in the Bill of rights are here to stay. Yes there is a chance that we could have some limits on the size of magazines (take note Detn8r) or some background checks or something along those lines. That is hardly the end of America.

Why do you keep skipping over the declaration of the 2nd being NOT an individual right?  If, and when, that happens,  individuals will be purely subject to laws local jurisdictions want to impose.  We were only ONE VOTE from that happening.  ANY judge a Dem appoints is about 99.9% sure to share that view.  Hillary has already said that is one of her criteria.

[Dave Ritsema]

Walked into the precinct at 06:02 and cast my vote. Thank you for all the brave men and women who gave their all to allow me to exercise that privilege. 

[six2go #152]

Walked into the precinct at 06:02 and cast my vote. Thank you for all the brave men and women who gave their all to allow me to exercise that privilege. 

Ya beat me by 3 hrs. Dave. 

[baldo]

Frye, please don't think that I am pushing for a Clinton presidency. There were many ahead of her as my choice. What I am trying to say is the talk of "It's the end of America " is just not rational in my opinion. All of our rights that are defined in the Bill of rights are here to stay. Yes there is a chance that we could have some limits on the size of magazines (take note Detn8r) or some background checks or something along those lines. That is hardly the end of America.

Why do you keep skipping over the declaration of the 2nd being NOT an individual right?  If, and when, that happens,  individuals will be purely subject to laws local jurisdictions want to impose.  We were only ONE VOTE from that happening.  ANY judge a Dem appoints is about 99.9% sure to share that view.  Hillary has already said that is one of her criteria.

Did you believe this strongly that a two-term Obama presidency would result in your guns being seized?

[MP]

Frye, please don't think that I am pushing for a Clinton presidency. There were many ahead of her as my choice. What I am trying to say is the talk of "It's the end of America " is just not rational in my opinion. All of our rights that are defined in the Bill of rights are here to stay. Yes there is a chance that we could have some limits on the size of magazines (take note Detn8r) or some background checks or something along those lines. That is hardly the end of America.

Why do you keep skipping over the declaration of the 2nd being NOT an individual right?  If, and when, that happens,  individuals will be purely subject to laws local jurisdictions want to impose.  We were only ONE VOTE from that happening.  ANY judge a Dem appoints is about 99.9% sure to share that view.  Hillary has already said that is one of her criteria.

Did you believe this strongly that a two-term Obama presidency would result in your guns being seized?

1.  Where in ANY of my comments, do I talk ANYTHING about them being seized?  In fact, I am quite clear that I do not believe they will be seized.  Just that restrictions will increase A LOT.

2. Obama appointed two justices, BOTH of whom stated in their confirmation hearings that they believe in the 2nd Amendment, yet in ALL the cases they ruled on, they sided with the Liberals on the court who voted for the harshest interpertation of the 2nd possible.

3.  IF he had been able to replace a conservative justice, instead of two liberals, with two liberals, yes then, the 2nd would be gutted by now.  Since he could not, it has not happened.  However, Scalia WILL be replaced by the next President.  IF that next President is a Dem, by the Dem Candidates own declarations, they will appoint a Justice who believes the 2nd ONLY applies to the gov't, not the individual.  Thus, making the 2nd meaningless to the citizens.

[baldo]

Frye, please don't think that I am pushing for a Clinton presidency. There were many ahead of her as my choice. What I am trying to say is the talk of "It's the end of America " is just not rational in my opinion. All of our rights that are defined in the Bill of rights are here to stay. Yes there is a chance that we could have some limits on the size of magazines (take note Detn8r) or some background checks or something along those lines. That is hardly the end of America.

Why do you keep skipping over the declaration of the 2nd being NOT an individual right?  If, and when, that happens,  individuals will be purely subject to laws local jurisdictions want to impose.  We were only ONE VOTE from that happening.  ANY judge a Dem appoints is about 99.9% sure to share that view.  Hillary has already said that is one of her criteria.

Did you believe this strongly that a two-term Obama presidency would result in your guns being seized?

1.  Where in ANY of my comments, do I talk ANYTHING about them being seized?  In fact, I am quite clear that I do not believe they will be seized.  Just that restrictions will increase A LOT.

2. Obama appointed two justices, BOTH of whom stated in their confirmation hearings that they believe in the 2nd Amendment, yet in ALL the cases they ruled on, they sided with the Liberals on the court who voted for the harshest interpertation of the 2nd possible.

3.  IF he had been able to replace a conservative justice, instead of two liberals, with two liberals, yes then, the 2nd would be gutted by now.  Since he could not, it has not happened.  However, Scalia WILL be replaced by the next President.  IF that next President is a Dem, by the Dem Candidates own declarations, they will appoint a Justice who believes the 2nd ONLY applies to the gov't, not the individual.  Thus, making the 2nd meaningless to the citizens.

MP,

I apparently wasn't very clear. I wasn't reading that into your previous comment. I was asking simply if you felt for the last 8 years, that Obama was coming for your guns as many did.

What you're stating is a perfectly reasonable concern, not saying that it's not. Personally, I think it's not. But we're on different sides of the fence.

I guess what I'm trying to ask is, could it be as unlikely to happen as it was that Obama was going to be taking your guns?
Bob

[Gavin_Sons]

I didn't  ever think Obama would take our guns. Maybe enforce  more strict laws and maybe even make it so hard to get a gun that it would be ridiculous. I believe Clinton will come for the guns, maybe start with mandatory turn in then door to door with the help of the UN. Hope I'm wrong

[Serk]

To the leftists, how's this for a comparison:

Roe V. Wade is the "Law of the Land" however, you see some chipping away at it, nibbling around the edges, in some places making it where it might be the law, but through practicality it's unavailable due to massive onerous restrictions, parental consent, waiting periods, unnecessary medical procedures required by law, unnecessary medical requirements for facilities, etc. etc. etc...

Yeah... it's like that with our concern for the 2nd Amendment.

[baldo]

To the leftists, how's this for a comparison:

Roe V. Wade is the "Law of the Land" however, you see some chipping away at it, nibbling around the edges, in some places making it where it might be the law, but through practicality it's unavailable due to massive onerous restrictions, parental consent, waiting periods, unnecessary medical procedures required by law, unnecessary medical requirements for facilities, etc. etc. etc...

Yeah... it's like that with our concern for the 2nd Amendment.

Valid point......only time will tell. See you in eight years....

[baldo]

I didn't  ever think Obama would take our guns. Maybe enforce  more strict laws and maybe even make it so hard to get a gun that it would be ridiculous. I believe Clinton will come for the guns, maybe start with mandatory turn in then door to door with the help of the UN. Hope I'm wrong

Maybe not you Gavin, but that was always the rallying cry, along with FEMA camps and who knows what else. There has been no shortage of ridiculous fear mongering for the last eight years.

[The emperor has no clothes]

I didn't  ever think Obama would take our guns. Maybe enforce  more strict laws and maybe even make it so hard to get a gun that it would be ridiculous. I believe Clinton will come for the guns, maybe start with mandatory turn in then door to door with the help of the UN. Hope I'm wrong

Maybe not you Gavin, but that was always the rallying cry, along with FEMA camps and who knows what else. There has been no shortage of ridiculous fear mongering for the last eight years.

And its looking like we better brace for another 8 years of it. 

[Reb]

Gavin... You don't want to make America great again?

 

[Gavin_Sons]

Gavin... You don't want to make America great again?

 

I sure do. But i don't think anyone in the running is capable of doing it. I really don't think America will ever be as great as it once was. We can only hope.

[rainman]

I am voting for Trump.

 

me also 

[rainman]

I think Baldo needs to make a "dragon roundup"  

See how us Indianeers do things.

I agree Baldo it is Sept. 16-18 at cordon ind.  be there

[rainman]

Gavin... You don't want to make America great again?

 

same question Gavin teddy boy has been brought by the Rep party and so many others just to try and stop trump.  this year it is going to show everyone that money can't buy everything

I sure do. But i don't think anyone in the running is capable of doing it. I really don't think America will ever be as great as it once was. We can only hope.

[MP]

Frye, please don't think that I am pushing for a Clinton presidency. There were many ahead of her as my choice. What I am trying to say is the talk of "It's the end of America " is just not rational in my opinion. All of our rights that are defined in the Bill of rights are here to stay. Yes there is a chance that we could have some limits on the size of magazines (take note Detn8r) or some background checks or something along those lines. That is hardly the end of America.

Why do you keep skipping over the declaration of the 2nd being NOT an individual right?  If, and when, that happens,  individuals will be purely subject to laws local jurisdictions want to impose.  We were only ONE VOTE from that happening.  ANY judge a Dem appoints is about 99.9% sure to share that view.  Hillary has already said that is one of her criteria.

Did you believe this strongly that a two-term Obama presidency would result in your guns being seized?

1.  Where in ANY of my comments, do I talk ANYTHING about them being seized?  In fact, I am quite clear that I do not believe they will be seized.  Just that restrictions will increase A LOT.

2. Obama appointed two justices, BOTH of whom stated in their confirmation hearings that they believe in the 2nd Amendment, yet in ALL the cases they ruled on, they sided with the Liberals on the court who voted for the harshest interpertation of the 2nd possible.

3.  IF he had been able to replace a conservative justice, instead of two liberals, with two liberals, yes then, the 2nd would be gutted by now.  Since he could not, it has not happened.  However, Scalia WILL be replaced by the next President.  IF that next President is a Dem, by the Dem Candidates own declarations, they will appoint a Justice who believes the 2nd ONLY applies to the gov't, not the individual.  Thus, making the 2nd meaningless to the citizens.

MP,

I apparently wasn't very clear. I wasn't reading that into your previous comment. I was asking simply if you felt for the last 8 years, that Obama was coming for your guns as many did.

What you're stating is a perfectly reasonable concern, not saying that it's not. Personally, I think it's not. But we're on different sides of the fence.

I guess what I'm trying to ask is, could it be as unlikely to happen as it was that Obama was going to be taking your guns?
Bob

Kind of the same as when Libs keep saying Repubs want to throw granny off the cliff, that we just want sick people to die quickly, etc., you mean like that?  When of course we don't, and libs know it.

[baldo]

I think Baldo needs to make a "dragon roundup"  

See how us Indianeers do things.

I agree Baldo it is Sept. 16-18 at cordon ind.  be there

Sorry, Inzane is my one splurge for the season......

[scooperhsd]

I didn't  ever think Obama would take our guns. Maybe enforce  more strict laws and maybe even make it so hard to get a gun that it would be ridiculous. I believe Clinton will come for the guns, maybe start with mandatory turn in then door to door with the help of the UN. Hope I'm wrong

Get real - the UN is NOT a government. In fact - the UN has to ASK member nations for troops to do something, or any other resources.

I also think that you all are WAY too over concerned about the possibility of guns going away. The government KNOWS there are lots of folks like you that would be "less than cooperative" about giving up their guns.

[Gavin_Sons]

I didn't  ever think Obama would take our guns. Maybe enforce  more strict laws and maybe even make it so hard to get a gun that it would be ridiculous. I believe Clinton will come for the guns, maybe start with mandatory turn in then door to door with the help of the UN. Hope I'm wrong

Get real - the UN is NOT a government. In fact - the UN has to ASK member nations for troops to do something, or any other resources.

I also think that you all are WAY too over concerned about the possibility of guns going away. The government KNOWS there are lots of folks like you that would be "less than cooperative" about giving up their guns.

  wouldn't be real hard with Hillary in charge. I think some are not concerned enough.

[FryeVRCCDS0067]

It will get really interesting if at least some of the unions decide to back Trump. He's certainly on the side of workers when it comes to trade and preventing our jobs from going overseas. Stopping the influx of illegals will help American workers too of course.

A union endorsed pro-2nd Amendment candidate would be a first I think. Generally, rank and file members are pro-gun but their leader's endorsements always go to anti-gun candidates. Hence, in my experience, most members don't vote for the endorsed candidates. 

This will be interesting, to be sure.

[Alpha Dog]

It will get really interesting if at least some of the unions decide to back Trump. He's certainly on the side of workers when it comes to trade and preventing our jobs from going overseas. Stopping the influx of illegals will help American workers too of course.

A union endorsed pro-2nd Amendment candidate would be a first I think. Generally, rank and file members are pro-gun but their leader's endorsements always go to anti-gun candidates. Hence, in my experience, most members don't vote for the endorsed candidates. 

This will be interesting, to be sure.

It happened before in 1980.  While most unions endorsed Carter, except for the Teamsters as I believe they endorsed Reagan, the rank and file went with Reagan and the term Reagan democrats was born.   At this point in the election in 1980 Reagan was down to Carter by over 20 points.  As the election neared he was still down by 7 to 9 points with 2 to 3 weeks left.   Of course he won in a landslide.  These rank and file folks are going to make a huge difference this time also.  I  have met so many of them here in Ohio and they are huge for Trump.  There are pundits ( I think a pundit is some form of rodent ) saying Trump will get 20 percent crossover and I think that would be a whole lot of pro 2 amendment folks that will not trust the banshee crook.  Her hubby signed Nafta and I think Gatt ( if not he supported it ) which has decimated the unions and brought all wages down in this country.   We shall see.

There is another force that might be in play as theorized by Rush Limbaugh the last few days.   The media may be for Trump this time as there ratings have soared due to him.  Follow that dollar.