Trump wants to thump

[da prez]

   Wife just read to me that Trump wants Flag burners or those who did respect the American Flag here to be held accountable . A year in jail or loss of citizenship. I , personally am for it.
  YES , people have rights , but in most other countries , there laws come first. If they have a problem here , go somewhere else. Do not live off our system and tell us how bad it is.

  I have lost family and friends defending this country and the Flag.

                                 da prez and still  a proud Veteran

[cookiedough]

fine with me, but trump also has to be held accountable for sticking behind and following thru with what he says.  Otherwise, he is just another typical politician lying thru his teeth.

I see now he might not be going after Hillary throwing her butt in jail on her scandal emails, etc.  He needs to follow thru on what he said he will do. 

build that WALL....   

[Serk]

NOTHING could desecrate the flag, and all that it stands for, more than banning desecration of it.

[The emperor has no clothes]

NOTHING could desecrate the flag, and all that it stands for, more than banning desecration of it.

[hubcapsc]

I think Trump just runs his mouth a lot of the time, to bring issues to the
forefront. You can't jail or excommunicate flag burners, but you can make
them feel the heat... I like it that we're all talking about how scummy flag
burners are all of a sudden, all the way from the White House down to this
motorcycle forum. I've never seen a flag burned, anyone here? What did you
do, if I can ask?

I think the following is funny, I don't know why... the title of this thread reminded
me of it - say it with a marching cadence:

Trump Trump Trump Trump
Trump Trump Trump Trump
Trumppity Trump...

-Mike

[da prez]

  Serk , explain.

                                        da prez

[solo1]

As a veteran also, it pisses me off to see numb nuts burning the American Flag.  Unfortunately, from what I understand, the SCOTUS ruled in June 1990, that flag burning was protected under the 1st amendment.
At any rate, burning the flag as a protest is the epitome of ignorance and plain dishonor to our country and the ones who gave their lives for it. However, these arseholes have their moment of' fame' on TV.

 Aside from that, I see people who are completely ignorant of flag etiquette.  Just the other day I saw a pickup with a faded and tattered 3x5 American flag flying in the bed of the truck. It also looked like it was made in China.  I've seen many torn, faded, and unlit flags flying at night.

I would think that a fine should be in order for "open burning"  and the Environmentalists pansies should not oppose that.  

Most cities and counties have laws against open burning.  Yeah, pure chickenshit but a nice hefty fine should slow it down and not interfere with the 1st amendment.

Jes a thought. Probably not worth two cents.

[Chrisj CMA]

  Serk , explain.

                                        da prez

One who needs that explained will probably never understand

[Serk]

  Serk , explain.

                                        da prez

The flag stands for freedom.

Freedom allows one to do distasteful things.

If we're truly free, then people must be free to do distasteful things.

Banning speech, which is what banning flag desecration is, goes against the very fabric of our nation, freedom, which includes the freedom to be an idiot and do repugnant things.

I accept I'm in the minority on this one, but if we don't have freedom to be an idiot, we don't really have freedom at all.

[Gryphon Rider]

  Serk , explain.

                                        da prez

Let a fellow (small d) democrat explain:
The flag represents a country that stands for democracy and freedom.  Freedom includes freedom of expression, especially the freedom to present an unpopular opinion, even if it offends popular opinion.  A law against destroying one's own property as a protest offends the principles the flag represents more than does the destruction of that flag.

[Jersey mike]

I think Trump just runs his mouth a lot of the time, to bring issues to the
forefront. You can't jail or excommunicate flag burners, but you can make
them feel the heat... I like it that we're all talking about how scummy flag
burners are all of a sudden, all the way from the White House down to this
motorcycle forum. I've never seen a flag burned, anyone here? What did you
do, if I can ask?

I think the following is funny, I don't know why... the title of this thread reminded
me of it - say it with a marching cadence:

Trump Trump Trump Trump
Trump Trump Trump Trump
Trumppity Trump...

-Mike

I've never seen anyone burn our flag in person.

I can't even bring myself to do it with my old flags when they get tattered and worn out. I bring them to the VFW, folded properly and in a box.

[baldo]

NOTHING could desecrate the flag, and all that it stands for, more than banning desecration of it.

 

[The emperor has no clothes]

I think Trump just runs his mouth a lot of the time, to bring issues to the
forefront. You can't jail or excommunicate flag burners, but you can make
them feel the heat... I like it that we're all talking about how scummy flag
burners are all of a sudden, all the way from the White House down to this
motorcycle forum. I've never seen a flag burned, anyone here? What did you
do, if I can ask?

I think the following is funny, I don't know why... the title of this thread reminded
me of it - say it with a marching cadence:

Trump Trump Trump Trump
Trump Trump Trump Trump
Trumppity Trump...

-Mike

I've never seen anyone burn our flag in person.

I can't even bring myself to do it with my old flags when they get tattered and worn out. I bring them to the VFW, folded properly and in a box.

Other than our enemies burning it (on TV), I can only remember one time I saw an American doing it (on TV). Many years ago. I do remember a "supposed" artist having it doused in urine. Or something like that. I don't know if I would commit violence if I saw it burned in person. I'm pretty sure it would get heated pretty quickly and get ugly. One of the great things about the first amendment is my right to express my opinion of a persons character who would do such a thing.

[Rams]

Have seen one flag intended to be burned in protest, I politely advised the protestor that if that's what they intended to do then, I'd be happy to assist.   I asked them where the gas and lighter was.   They pointed them out and then I asked them to stand still while I wrapped the flag around their body.

I fully agree that one should be able to protest and if flag burning is the chosen method, then so be it.   Just remember, we are all responsible for our own actions and the consequences of those actions.   SCOTUS said it was legal so, who am I to argue the point.   Light R UP.    

Oh, forgot to mention.   That protestor changed his mind.   Yeah, I know, had the protest moved forward, I would have gotten into trouble and can't defend my own actions but, I wish I could have had a picture taken of that protestor's face.   BTW, that was back when I was a young and admittedly dumb Marine.     I have since learned to be a little more PC.  

Signed
Your Officially Recognized PITA

[Robert]

OK since we have freedom lets call fire in a crowded theater, respect and understanding stop this why should the flag be any different?

[Serk]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MyWVahqjAY

[The emperor has no clothes]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MyWVahqjAY

Thanks.

[Bighead]

I think you should be able to burn the flag but think you should have to climb the pole to burn it and I should have the right to cut the pole down while their ass is up there  

[michaelyoung254]

  Serk , explain.

                                        da prez

The flag stands for freedom.

Freedom allows one to do distasteful things.

If we're truly free, then people must be free to do distasteful things.

Banning speech, which is what banning flag desecration is, goes against the very fabric of our nation, freedom, which includes the freedom to be an idiot and do repugnant things.

I accept I'm in the minority on this one, but if we don't have freedom to be an idiot, we don't really have freedom at all.

I agree 100% with this. However, I also feel that if you see a person desecrating the flag, you should be able to beat the crap of the person(s) who is desecrating the flag as an expression of your freedom of speech regarding desecration of the flag!

[cookiedough]

how hard would it be for soon to be president trump to enact a law that NO American flag burning is allowed in the 50 states?  Seems pretty simple to me.  Many of our laws do not make sense that we must (or should) follow otherwise fined and possible jail time.

Flag burning should be no different. 

[baldo]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MyWVahqjAY

That was excellent.....

[Wizzard]

freedom does have limits. Besides,, burning the flag contributes to carbon emissions which the flag burner would probably protest also

[Serk]

how hard would it be for soon to be president trump to enact a law that NO American flag burning is allowed in the 50 states?  Seems pretty simple to me.  Many of our laws do not make sense that we must (or should) follow otherwise fined and possible jail time.

Flag burning should be no different. 

It would be impossible.

Would require a constitutional amendment to limit free speech.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_v._Johnson

[Willow]

We have become a bit ridiculous in what and how we apply the freedom of speech.  I'm thinking the next time I get pulled over for exceeding the PRV I'll just tell them I was expressing myself as I am entitled by the right to free speech.   

And yet at the same time we can decide that the right to bear arms can be limited by the requirement of a license.   

[da prez]

chris , I take offense to that. I did not see until it was explained. I guess in a perfect world , I would have.

                              da prez

[3fan4life]

  Serk , explain.

                                        da prez

Let a fellow (small d) democrat explain:
The flag represents a country that stands for democracy and freedom.  Freedom includes freedom of expression, especially the freedom to present an unpopular opinion, even if it offends popular opinion.  A law against destroying one's own property as a protest offends the principles the flag represents more than does the destruction of that flag.

Just curious, is the burning of The Canadian flag a common form of protest?

[Moonshot_1]

Solution is pretty easy. Legislation as follows.

United States Flags either made in the United States or Imported for sale shall be made and constructed from materials which are impervious to fire and flame or materials treated with fire and flame retardant that would meet the standard of making the material impervious to fire and flame.

This way you respect the rights of those who wish to burn the Flag while sticking that "right" right up their ass at the same time.

Win/Win!

[Oss]

sadly I recall reading that SCOTUS decision in Const Law class in law school

I like both of the Mike's response,

If you burn it I can express myself accordingly

The big problem is the police cant do squat but I dont see why a concerned citizen especially a
veteran could not be sufficiently offended to stop the burning (also loved the greenhouse gas line)

I'm sorry officer but that burning flag punched this man in the nose and burned his ears off

I have told several court officers and a few judge's that the USA flag must be the highest flag flying in a courtroom. Some thanked me, some fixed it  I remember who did and who did not

[Gryphon Rider]

  Serk , explain.

                                        da prez

Let a fellow (small d) democrat explain:
The flag represents a country that stands for democracy and freedom.  Freedom includes freedom of expression, especially the freedom to present an unpopular opinion, even if it offends popular opinion.  A law against destroying one's own property as a protest offends the principles the flag represents more than does the destruction of that flag.

Just curious, is the burning of The Canadian flag a common form of protest?

Not common at all.  A quick Google search pointed me to a story of a couple of people carrying a Mohawk Warriors flag who burned a Canadian flag on Canada Day in Kingston, Ontario this year.

[msb]

  Serk , explain.

                                        da prez

Let a fellow (small d) democrat explain:
The flag represents a country that stands for democracy and freedom.  Freedom includes freedom of expression, especially the freedom to present an unpopular opinion, even if it offends popular opinion.  A law against destroying one's own property as a protest offends the principles the flag represents more than does the destruction of that flag.

Just curious, is the burning of The Canadian flag a common form of protest?

I'm sure it has happened at one time or another, but I can't recall a particualr instance. I have never understood anyone who "protests" in a disrespectful manner....yes do speak your mind, disagree, or make your opinions visible to those you protest against, but do so in a manner befitting the work and sacrifice that others have made in an effort for you to have the freedom to do so.

Probably the biggest Canadian "flag flap", as it was called at the time, in recent history was when the Toronto Blue Jays traveled to Atlanta in 1992 to become the first non-US-based team to compete for the World Series. A US Color Guard marched out for the National Anthems with our Maple Leaf flying upside down.


At the time, some saw it as a deliberate attempt to disrespect Canada for "intruding" on the US's national pastime, while in reality it was just an innocent mistake. What turned out to be a pretty neat story though - and a testament to Canadians' general sense of forgiveness and respect, was when a different Color Guard traveled up to Toronto for the 2nd and 4th games, and the reception they received from the crowd and others associated with the event. Here's the story of that return trip to Toronto, from a member of that second Color Gaurd....
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/flag-flap/article12901837/

[big d]

fine with me, but trump also has to be held accountable for sticking behind and following thru with what he says.  Otherwise, he is just another typical politician lying thru his teeth.

I see now he might not be going after Hillary throwing her butt in jail on her scandal emails, etc.  He needs to follow thru on what he said he will do. 

build that WALL....   

Trump doesn't have to follow through because the FBI and congress is. All he can do is make a recommendation. Let the correct channels handle it.

[The emperor has no clothes]

  Serk , explain.

                                        da prez

Let a fellow (small d) democrat explain:
The flag represents a country that stands for democracy and freedom.  Freedom includes freedom of expression, especially the freedom to present an unpopular opinion, even if it offends popular opinion.  A law against destroying one's own property as a protest offends the principles the flag represents more than does the destruction of that flag.

Just curious, is the burning of The Canadian flag a common form of protest?

I'm sure it has happened at one time or another, but I can't recall a particualr instance. I have never understood anyone who "protests" in a disrespectful manner....yes do speak your mind, disagree, or make your opinions visible to those you protest against, but do so in a manner befitting the work and sacrifice that others have made in an effort for you to have the freedom to do so.

Probably the biggest Canadian "flag flap", as it was called at the time, in recent history was when the Toronto Blue Jays traveled to Atlanta in 1992 to become the first non-US-based team to compete for the World Series. A US Color Guard marched out for the National Anthems with our Maple Leaf flying upside down.


At the time, some saw it as a deliberate attempt to disrespect Canada for "intruding" on the US's national pastime, while in reality it was just an innocent mistake. What turned out to be a pretty neat story though - and a testament to Canadians' general sense of forgiveness and respect, was when a different Color Guard traveled up to Toronto for the 2nd and 4th games, and the reception they received from the crowd and others associated with the event. Here's the story of that return trip to Toronto, from a member of that second Color Gaurd....
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/flag-flap/article12901837/

Great story 

[Gryphon Rider]

Here's the story of that return trip to Toronto, from a member of that second Color Gaurd....
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/flag-flap/article12901837/

Thanks for posting that link.

[Skinhead]

  Serk , explain.

                                        da prez

The flag stands for freedom.

Freedom allows one to do distasteful things.

If we're truly free, then people must be free to do distasteful things.

Banning speech, which is what banning flag desecration is, goes against the very fabric of our nation, freedom, which includes the freedom to be an idiot and do repugnant things.

I accept I'm in the minority on this one, but if we don't have freedom to be an idiot, we don't really have freedom at all.

I agree 100% with this. However, I also feel that if you see a person desecrating the flag, you should be able to beat the crap of the person(s) who is desecrating the flag as an expression of your freedom of speech regarding desecration of the flag!

^^^^^^^^^^^This^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

With no penalty or legal ramifications to the crap-beater-outer!! 

[RP#62]

Notwithstanding the first amendment, one would think that there would be limits on how hateful or disrespectful people should be allowed to be in order to express themselves.  Otherwise actions like hanging an ethnic effigy from a tree or burning one's copy of the Koran should be just fine with everybody, since you're just destroying your own property to express yourself.

-RP

[DirtyDan]

The Supreme Court said it's ok to disrespect the flag and the Bible

So.......?

Dan

[3fan4life]

Just because someone has the "Right" to do something doesn't make it "Right" to do it.

When I see the image of someone burning the American flag,
I see it as a direct act of disrespect against the people who died protecting their rights.

This violates ALL rules of common sense and decency.  

[Serk]

Otherwise actions like hanging an ethnic effigy from a tree or burning one's copy of the Koran should be just fine with everybody, since you're just destroying your own property to express yourself.

From a legal point of view, those are legally protected speech issues.

Would there be repercussions? Almost definitely.

But doing them would be protected speech from an "illegal" point of view.

[old2soon]

Just because someone has the "Right" to do something doesn't make it "Right" to do it.

When I see the image of someone burning the American flag,
I see it as a direct act of disrespect against the people who died protecting their rights.

This violates ALL rules of common sense and decency.  

                When you Actually Help out with something Exactly like the Soldier is doing in the top photo-well it DO add a whole new perspective. And my old Flags that Should be destroyed go to my local American Legion Post. They have asked me to participate in the Proper disposal Ceremony-just can NOT do so-yet. When you see The FLAG come off of a Veterans Casket and watch it being folded and presented to the Family and TAPS is Still ringing in your ears and your ears still hurt from the rifle volleys and it's difficult to catch that next breath and your trying to remember WHEN did the water works start and you just barely hear the Order Arms command and you're rolling your Flag-yup-I DO git a bit emotional. RIDE SAFE.

[Pete]

"The First Amendment (Amendment I) to the United States Constitution prohibits the making of any law respecting an establishment of religion, ensuring that there is no prohibition on the free exercise of religion, abridging the freedom of speech, infringing on the freedom of the press, interfering with the right to peaceably assemble, or prohibiting the petitioning for a governmental redress of grievances."

Nothing in the first amendment allows an action of burning the flag.

Yes I understand the court, stretched the meaning of the word speech to mean freedom of expression.
The court needs to stop changing the meaning of words just to justify their findings.

You may talk about burning anything you want, that is freedom of speech, but when you burn it, it is an action, unless you start the fire with your words.

And actions have consequences - or at least should have.