Two AZ Lane splitting bills, SB 1007 and SB 1015 read and discuss

[RDKLL]

So for my AZ riding family, two bills have been introduced to the AZ legislature this session:
https://www.azleg.gov/legtext/53leg/2R/bills/SB1015P.htm and https://www.azleg.gov/legtext/53leg/2R/bills/SB1007P.htm
Personally, I am more interested in filtering. Lane splitting at very low speeds...
Your thoughts

[Oss]

would love to see that in ny

[old2soon]

Have like zero idea if it's legal in Illinois but in 16 on the way to my Brothers on I-55 the dumb asses were backed up a good bit and I took advantage of the fact I wuz on 2 wheels with my trailer. Lotsa horn honkin and folks with winders down let loose with some colorful words and some of the more colorful words came from the females of the species.  Some folks wanna open doors to impede your progress. Even if they make lane splitting a law-be VERY VERY careful. Ya cain't fix stoopid.  RIDE SAFE.

[RDKLL]

For me personally filtering would be the biggest benefit for me...I really have no issues on the interstates in the Phoenix/Mesa metroplex...I love the HOV lanes, I am always over in them when they are available...some dont understand that the HOV lane is not the fast lane during the off-hours. I believe I would only lane split in the heaviest traffic, I cant really see doing it at 60 when traffic is moving 50, but thats just me...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNGD9AAIfFU&feature=youtu.be

[RDKLL]

Have like zero idea if it's legal in Illinois

I think California is the only state where it is legal, previously it was not specifically illegal.
They tried once before in AZ, bills have been resented and failed in OR, WA, TX and I believe MA. The one that failed in TX is similar to SB 1015-Must be wearing a helmet (even though helmet use is not otherwise required) Personally, since I am ATGATT, I will take whatever we can get...let the non-helmet wearers duke out that specific issue with the legislature

[The emperor has no clothes]

I’m all for it. I don’t know if I’d do it much though.

[Rams]

Have like zero idea if it's legal in Illinois but in 16 on the way to my Brothers on I-55 the dumb asses were backed up a good bit and I took advantage of the fact I wuz on 2 wheels with my trailer. Lotsa horn honkin and folks with winders down let loose with some colorful words and some of the more colorful words came from the females of the species.  Some folks wanna open doors to impede your progress. Even if they make lane splitting a law-be VERY VERY careful. Ya cain't fix stoopid.  RIDE SAFE.

Precisely the reason I am not in favor of lane splitting.   It can be dangerous.   Anyone that doesn't recognize that needs to take a reality pill or something.

But, the biggest reason is, it does nothing but piss off the rest of the traveling public.   Yeah, it might get us where we want to go faster but, it does (as your post illustrates) piss off most cage drivers.    My opinion is that we already have enough animosity towards those of us on two wheels.   

Yeah, I know the air cooled folks will have a problem with this, all I can say is get a real bike. 

[RDKLL]

It has its trade offs and education will be a very necessary component.

A couple of articles...I want to be a legal LSM (read the articles)

http://www.therideadvice.com/is-motorcycle-lane-splitting-safe-an-analysis/
https://www.americanmotorcyclist.com/About-The-AMA/lane-splitting-1
 

[Jess from VA]

I would not do it much either.

But I have been stuck in dead stopped traffic a few times, for hours, in real hot sun and real driving rain, when I wished like hell I was allowed to slowly motor up the line for a few miles to the next exit, and get the hell out of there.

It would not inconvenience ANYONE.

[old2soon]

I would not do it much either.

But I have been stuck in dead stopped traffic a few times, for hours, in real hot sun and real driving rain, when I wished like hell I was allowed to slowly motor up the line for a few miles to the next exit, and get the hell out of there.

It would not inconvenience ANYONE.

                   ONLY to those others stuck in traffic that WOULD consider us-M/C riders-an affront to them personally. Time was I Could sit there in dead stopped traffic BUT the ritis raises so durned much heck with the hands these days-think holdin in the clutch and brake lever-well I try hard to NOT git in dem situations-But NOT always successful. Keepin head on dat ole swivel Will Help.  RIDE SAFE.

[The emperor has no clothes]

Have like zero idea if it's legal in Illinois but in 16 on the way to my Brothers on I-55 the dumb asses were backed up a good bit and I took advantage of the fact I wuz on 2 wheels with my trailer. Lotsa horn honkin and folks with winders down let loose with some colorful words and some of the more colorful words came from the females of the species.  Some folks wanna open doors to impede your progress. Even if they make lane splitting a law-be VERY VERY careful. Ya cain't fix stoopid.  RIDE SAFE.

Precisely the reason I am not in favor of lane splitting.   It can be dangerous.   Anyone that doesn't recognize that needs to take a reality pill or something.

But, the biggest reason is, it does nothing but piss off the rest of the traveling public.   Yeah, it might get us where we want to go faster but, it does (as your post illustrates) piss off most cage drivers.    My opinion is that we already have enough animosity towards those of us on two wheels.   

Yeah, I know the air cooled folks will have a problem with this, all I can say is get a real bike. 

The times I’ve done it in California it never seemed to piss anybody off. But I think they are a lot more aware of it. If they do it here, I’m sure it will take some time for cars to get used to it.

[Jess from VA]

I did it in CA on the 6 lanes a number of times, and even though they are used to it, I still had a couple guys run over and squeeze me out of passing a couple times.  Clearly and unmistakably intentional too.  Since I followed the rule (maybe not by law, but by practice) of only exceeding the flow by 5mph, I was always able to whip across the lane, and pass the assholes up the other side.  But no middle fingers or shaking fists.... he could be next to you again shortly.

[Savago]

In California it works pretty fine, there are a few a*holes that may not be nice, but majority of drivers will open room for you to pass.

Once I was riding from Monterey back to Santa Cruz and the traffic was pretty bad in a 2 lanes road. I moved to the middle of the 2 roads and something magical happened: all cars started to move away, I started to divide the sea of cars like Moses.
:-P

It comes with education: they teach the new drivers to pay attention to riders (not to mention road signs with 'Mind the motorcyclists').

[Willow]

...   It can be dangerous.   Anyone that doesn't recognize that needs to take a reality pill or something.  ...

Herein lies the problem that generally rubs me the wrong way.  Sometimes we have a tendency to give our opinion based upon our speculation and then say that anyone who does not agree with us must be not quite right intellectually.  Another friend of mine did that recently.

Do we not see the obvious correlation with a non-riding four wheeler saying, "I'll never ride a motorcycle in traffic.  It's dangerous.  Anyone who does so needs to have his mind examined."

I do agree that lane splitting can add an additional danger to riding, especially so in environments in which the driving public is unaware of or particularly offended by the practice.  I'd be interested in seeing someone's data on accidents in California directly resulting from lane splitting, specifically those that did not include instances in which the rules of lane splitting were violated.

I probably wouldn't do it a lot even were it legal but I have no real problem with the mentality of those who would. 

[LandElephant]

Here is the problem. Lane splitting or filtering works in California because it is social and cultural experience. When it first started there was a lot of negative feedback as much like here on this board.

But through education of both thr rider and the non-riders and mostly good behavior but the motorcycle community there was a mutual cooperation by both. Lately riders are pushing the envelop and stretching the intent of filtering and lane splitting.

My experience has been good in California. Complying with the recommendation established CHP and being courteous has gotten me treated well as rider. Most times when traffic stops or slows down where the conditions setup lane splitting or filtering I have  seen that motorist actual  move over to give room for the motorcycle rider. That is the cultural and social aspect of lane splitting or filtering.

But you have to follow the rules and give society a chance or time.

Charlie Morse
Landelephant

[Rams]

...   It can be dangerous.   Anyone that doesn't recognize that needs to take a reality pill or something.  ...

Herein lies the problem that generally rubs me the wrong way.  Sometimes we have a tendency to give our opinion based upon our speculation and then say that anyone who does not agree with us must be not quite right intellectually.  Another friend of mine did that recently.

Do we not see the obvious correlation with a non-riding four wheeler saying, "I'll never ride a motorcycle in traffic.  It's dangerous.  Anyone who does so needs to have his mind examined."

I do agree that lane splitting can add an additional danger to riding, especially so in environments in which the driving public is unaware of or particularly offended by the practice.  I'd be interested in seeing someone's data on accidents in California directly resulting from lane splitting, specifically those that did not include instances in which the rules of lane splitting were violated.

I probably wouldn't do it a lot even were it legal but I have no real problem with the mentality of those who would.  

Has little to do with intellectual capability, very intelligent people can see the same data and yet disagree on what that data says.  

I've ridden in CA, as I'm sure most of us have.   It was not a pleasant experience that I care to duplicate.   Lane splitting can be dangerous.    I'll stick with that opinion until someone proves me wrong.   I won't lane split, even if the group I'm riding with decides to do so.   Having spent a lot of time on the road in a cage pulling a trailer, I also understand that those same folks who chose to cheat and push their selves into line are pushing someone else back in line.

Ever been on a blocked or converging highway where folks are all trying to get ahead of you.  Cutting you off, changing lanes to get into the lane that's moving?   I'm pretty sure you have been, so have I.   This has nothing to do with intellect, has everything to do with ego.   Won't suggest I'm sorry for this opinion.  Spent too many miles and time on the highways of this country.   Bikers have no more right to cut in than anyone else in a cage or a semi.  

We chose to ride on two wheels, that does not give us "special" treatment or rights over those who chose to drive with four.  

Rams

[RDKLL]

 Has little to do with intellectual capability, very intelligent people can see the same data and yet disagree on what that data says.  
 
Ever been on a blocked or converging highway where folks are all trying to get ahead of you.  Cutting you off, changing lanes to get into the lane that's moving?   I'm pretty sure you have been, so have I.   This has nothing to do with intellect, has everything to do with ego.   Won't suggest I'm sorry for this opinion.  Spent too many miles and time on the highways of this country.   Bikers have no more right to cut in than anyone else in a cage or a semi.  

We chose to ride on two wheels, that does not give us "special" treatment or rights over those who chose to drive with four.  

Rams

I may have missed something but what I am seeing is a lot of words that could have been boiled down to "It's not fair."
I am talking about filtering, which is done at very slow speeds or when traffic is not moving...
It will be that "it's not fair" mentality that will be the hardest to overcome...as long as the motorcycles continue to move, they are less at risk to be hit from behind.  And if you choose not to filter or lane split because you believe it is not fair to others around you, feel free because nowhere that lane splitting of filtering has been legalized is it mandatory to do so...it is always optional. It is also important that most everyone knows that riding a motorcycle exposes you to a much higher chance of being injured or killed while enjoying your commute to work or a multi-day trip, none of us would give that up. Think about this while you are sitting behind a car on your motorcycle....would you rather get hit by a car at a dead stop or a much  less dangerous side swipe. And if that side swipe is from someone showing you that "it's not fair", well that is a different conversation

[Robert]

I would not want someone to split my lane if I was riding in traffic going at speed in a cage. I would not mind though if traffic is stopped for a motorcycle to take advantage to get through the traffic.

At speed it gives you another thing to watch out for and take up your lane. Unfortunately like everything there are those that push the safe limits also. Even if stopped or slow going and splitting is allowed you have to watch for a motorcycle coming up before changing lanes in a cage. Heck when stopped for traffic things become a free for all anyway with people pulling on the apron or median.

I have upon occasion gone in the buffer between the HOV lane and the left lane when traffic was stopped. I always watch for cages that want to change lanes and always use caution. This buffer zone is about 2 feet wide along with the additional space between cars means more safety and comfortable room to deal with encase of emergency.



Why couldn't this be done for all roads and make this available for motorcycles when filtering. It would be designated for this along with separating the HOV lane and would allow motorcycles safe passage. All the time not taking up to much space.

[Oldfishguy]

Here are the California guidelines on Lane Splitting published a few years ago that made it legal; they make sense, and made legal what had been going on for some time.  As of now, no other state has any guidelines or laws allowing for filtering or lane splitting.   

Any state considering Lane Splitting should learn from California's experience and take a similar approach.


https://www.ridetowork.org/files/docs/lanesplitting_guidelines.pdf

[LandElephant]

Again, look at what the recommendations are for lane splitting /filtering.  Too many assume that land splitting or filtering can be done at any speed.  There are specific requirements that allow motorcycles in California to filter or lane split.

Some of them are:

Traffic must be slowed or stopped (I believe the speed limit is 35 mph and below) and bunching up.

Once you start filtering as a MC you must stay in the same lane and can only proceed at 5 mph over the flow of traffic. You can not change lanes and cause a safety hazard.

You CAN NOT use the two emergency lanes.  They are for breakdowns and emergency vehicles. You will get ticketed.

If you path is blocked then you stop.

Motorist are ENCOURAGED to give you space.

There are harsh criminal laws for motorist to put MC in danger during lane splitting / filtering if the situation occurs. I was witness many years ago to a motorist who intentionally harmed MC rider during a legal lane splitting / filter situation.  The motorist was charge with vehicular manslaughter and sent to jail for a minimum of 10 years.

California has been doing it for about 50 years (I believe CHP set the recommendations in 1968) so there has been at least 3 generations who have grown up and lived around this process. Just like seat belts it just takes time.

Nobody is holding a gun to your head and says "You must lane split / filter." We all have free will to make the choice to ride our motorcycles as WE / YOU see fit. Lane splitting / filtering is a convenience and YOU make the choice to do it or not. But don't tell me I'm wrong or unsafe if I COMPLY with the requirements and perform this safely.  MY free will choice.

Charlie Morse
Landelephant

[Oldfishguy]

Minnesota has a Bill in waiting that will get a Legislative hearing next term on Motorcycle Lane Splitting as well.  I sit on a Task force for the state on Motorcycle Safety and the Department of Transportation asked us to weigh in on the proposed legislation for an opinion.  After much discussion among the small group we voted 5-4 against the recommendation (I voted against).  The problem I had with it was the bill was set up for a 40 mph max speed with a 15 mph overtake max speed, and this from the onset.  I could not see exceeding the California guidelines on speed as any way responsible.

The current AZ proposed Bill has a max speed of 25, with an overtake of 10; this is reasonable.  This follows an individual Australian state with the same speeds that published a study a few years back.  

A few things came up in our discussions:

*In northern climates road conditions  are not like California roads  (frost heaves, pot holes, etc)
*Most our roads are asphalt, with a seam in the asphalt between lanes. (sometimes uneven)
*By many this is viewed as a metropolitan issue, and a don't rock the boat mentality sets in.
  (There is a real justified fear with a new motorcycle bill, a helmet law will be attached in the final
   minutes.)  And this reason itself will probably keep the bill from anything more than a proposal.

Politics.

[RDKLL]

The current AZ proposed Bill has a max speed of 25, with an overtake of 10; this is reasonable.  This follows an individual Australian state with the same speeds that published a study a few years back.

We now have 2 bills the newest is SB 1015 which was just introduced last week and SB 1007 was in the news back in Oct 2016
SB 1007: The main point is just striking the language to make lane splitting and filtering illegal without regard to the speed
https://legiscan.com/AZ/text/SB1007/id/1657375

And SB 1015: The main points being helmets must be worn to lane split (helmets are optional under most other circumstances) and the max speed of traffic is 20 mph with overtake of 10 mph. I believe it will be the helmet requirement that kills this one
https://legiscan.com/AZ/text/SB1015/id/1660759

[Willow]

...   It can be dangerous.   Anyone that doesn't recognize that needs to take a reality pill or something.  ...

Herein lies the problem that generally rubs me the wrong way.  Sometimes we have a tendency to give our opinion based upon our speculation and then say that anyone who does not agree with us must be not quite right intellectually.  Another friend of mine did that recently.

Do we not see the obvious correlation with a non-riding four wheeler saying, "I'll never ride a motorcycle in traffic.  It's dangerous.  Anyone who does so needs to have his mind examined."

I do agree that lane splitting can add an additional danger to riding, especially so in environments in which the driving public is unaware of or particularly offended by the practice.  I'd be interested in seeing someone's data on accidents in California directly resulting from lane splitting, specifically those that did not include instances in which the rules of lane splitting were violated.

I probably wouldn't do it a lot even were it legal but I have no real problem with the mentality of those who would.  

Has little to do with intellectual capability, very intelligent people can see the same data and yet disagree on what that data says.  

I've ridden in CA, as I'm sure most of us have.   It was not a pleasant experience that I care to duplicate.   Lane splitting can be dangerous.    I'll stick with that opinion until someone proves me wrong.   I won't lane split, even if the group I'm riding with decides to do so.   Having spent a lot of time on the road in a cage pulling a trailer, I also understand that those same folks who chose to cheat and push their selves into line are pushing someone else back in line.

Ever been on a blocked or converging highway where folks are all trying to get ahead of you.  Cutting you off, changing lanes to get into the lane that's moving?   I'm pretty sure you have been, so have I.   This has nothing to do with intellect, has everything to do with ego.   Won't suggest I'm sorry for this opinion.  Spent too many miles and time on the highways of this country.   Bikers have no more right to cut in than anyone else in a cage or a semi.  

We chose to ride on two wheels, that does not give us "special" treatment or rights over those who chose to drive with four.  

Rams

...   It can be dangerous.   Anyone that doesn't recognize that needs to take a reality pill or something.  ...

"Needs to take a reality pill" seems to apply something about a person's ability to discern what's true.  Doesn't that have everything to do with intellectual capability.

Lane splitting is not in any way about "cutting in."  It actually shortens lines by moving those capable of lane splitting out of the line.

I have no problem with your or my choice to not practice lane splitting.  I have a problem with your or my choice to demean the intelligence of those who choose to do otherwise.

[RDKLL]

 

"Needs to take a reality pill" seems to apply something about a person's ability to discern what's true.  Doesn't that have everything to do with intellectual capability.

Lane splitting is not in any way about "cutting in."  It actually shortens lines by moving those capable of lane splitting out of the line.

I have no problem with your or my choice to not practice lane splitting.  I have a problem with your or my choice to demean the intelligence of those who choose to do otherwise.

I agree, to me it is the same decision about those who choose to not wear a helmet...I choose to wear ATGATT even when it is 120 deg (it is a dry heat LOL). That is a decision that may have consequences for a lot of people other than the rider...consequences I would rather avoid. I personally would take either one of these bills, SB 1015 would require a helmet on riders and passengers who decide to lane split...would that be a slippery slope? I dont thinks so because I already wear a helmet...

[Rams]

...   It can be dangerous.   Anyone that doesn't recognize that needs to take a reality pill or something.  ...

Herein lies the problem that generally rubs me the wrong way.  Sometimes we have a tendency to give our opinion based upon our speculation and then say that anyone who does not agree with us must be not quite right intellectually.  Another friend of mine did that recently.

Do we not see the obvious correlation with a non-riding four wheeler saying, "I'll never ride a motorcycle in traffic.  It's dangerous.  Anyone who does so needs to have his mind examined."

I do agree that lane splitting can add an additional danger to riding, especially so in environments in which the driving public is unaware of or particularly offended by the practice.  I'd be interested in seeing someone's data on accidents in California directly resulting from lane splitting, specifically those that did not include instances in which the rules of lane splitting were violated.

I probably wouldn't do it a lot even were it legal but I have no real problem with the mentality of those who would.  

Has little to do with intellectual capability, very intelligent people can see the same data and yet disagree on what that data says.  

I've ridden in CA, as I'm sure most of us have.   It was not a pleasant experience that I care to duplicate.   Lane splitting can be dangerous.    I'll stick with that opinion until someone proves me wrong.   I won't lane split, even if the group I'm riding with decides to do so.   Having spent a lot of time on the road in a cage pulling a trailer, I also understand that those same folks who chose to cheat and push their selves into line are pushing someone else back in line.

Ever been on a blocked or converging highway where folks are all trying to get ahead of you.  Cutting you off, changing lanes to get into the lane that's moving?   I'm pretty sure you have been, so have I.   This has nothing to do with intellect, has everything to do with ego.   Won't suggest I'm sorry for this opinion.  Spent too many miles and time on the highways of this country.   Bikers have no more right to cut in than anyone else in a cage or a semi.  

We chose to ride on two wheels, that does not give us "special" treatment or rights over those who chose to drive with four.  

Rams

...   It can be dangerous.   Anyone that doesn't recognize that needs to take a reality pill or something.  ...

"Needs to take a reality pill" seems to apply something about a person's ability to discern what's true.  Doesn't that have everything to do with intellectual capability.

Lane splitting is not in any way about "cutting in."  It actually shortens lines by moving those capable of lane splitting out of the line.

I have no problem with your or my choice to not practice lane splitting.  I have a problem with your or my choice to demean the intelligence of those who choose to do otherwise.

Would you agree or disagree that lane splitting can be or is hazardous.   If you think it's a safe way to ride, then so be it.   If not, then we're in disagreement.   I'm not challenging anyone's intelligence but, one can assign that judgement to almost any discussion held on this forum when people disagree.

I personally believe that anyone who thinks lane splitting is safe is not fully recognizing the risks they are taking nor how the rest of the driving public feels about it.    If anyone takes that as challenging their intelligence then, it's not what I intended nor the message I was sending but, it's impossible to control the message that is received.   Even silence sends a message to be interpreted as the viewer wishes.

[Willow]

Would you agree or disagree that lane splitting can be or is hazardous.   If you think it's a safe way to ride, then so be it.   If not, then we're in disagreement.   I'm not challenging anyone's intelligence but, one can assign that judgement to almost any discussion held on this forum when people disagree.

I personally believe that anyone who thinks lane splitting is safe is not fully recognizing the risks they are taking nor how the rest of the driving public feels about it.    If anyone takes that as challenging their intelligence then, it's not what I intended nor the message I was sending but, it's impossible to control the message that is received.   Even silence sends a message to be interpreted as the viewer wishes.

As I said, I have no problem with what you choose to do.  As to whether it is as dangerous as you believe you can win me to your side by telling me of the impartial statistics you saw to cause you to arrive at that conclusion.

I believe there is potential danger in lane splitting.  I believe it is more dangerous to ride on two wheels than over four (or eighteen).  I believe that flying carries the dangerous possibility of crashing.  I believe life is terminal.

Lane splitting?  If it were legal where I ride I believe there are occasions that I would advantage myself of it.  I don't think I would practice it often.

I'm out of the conversation.  No need to eat other folk's time and patience.

[Rams]

Would you agree or disagree that lane splitting can be or is hazardous.   If you think it's a safe way to ride, then so be it.   If not, then we're in disagreement.   I'm not challenging anyone's intelligence but, one can assign that judgement to almost any discussion held on this forum when people disagree.

I personally believe that anyone who thinks lane splitting is safe is not fully recognizing the risks they are taking nor how the rest of the driving public feels about it.    If anyone takes that as challenging their intelligence then, it's not what I intended nor the message I was sending but, it's impossible to control the message that is received.   Even silence sends a message to be interpreted as the viewer wishes.

As I said, I have no problem with what you choose to do.  As to whether it is as dangerous as you believe you can win me to your side by telling me of the impartial statistics you saw to cause you to arrive at that conclusion.

I believe there is potential danger in lane splitting.  I believe it is more dangerous to ride on two wheels than over four (or eighteen).  I believe that flying carries the dangerous possibility of crashing.  I believe life is terminal.

Lane splitting?  If it were legal where I ride I believe there are occasions that I would advantage myself of it.  I don't think I would practice it often.

I'm out of the conversation.  No need to eat other folk's time and patience.

 

[RDKLL]

There are very strong opinions on both sides of this. Some seem to be based on anecdotal evidence if it looks unsafe then it must be unsafe) and some based on studies where it is legal (or not expressly illegal) and where it has been done for decades...
I hope the legislature of AZ give us the opportunity to make our own decision as they have with helmets, to wear or not to wear...

[Westernbiker]

I am an Arizona native and I believe it has a place. I personally would not high speed lane split, but I would if I were stuck in traffic on a hot day. (Which here in Arizona we have plenty of them) However, I do see a big problem. Judging the drivers here and the amount of road rage that goes on here, I can see some drivers getting VERY IRRITATED at motorcyclist lane splitting, when ALL other traffic is at a stop. I see a huge problem when motorcyclist lane split to get to the front of the line at a stop light. I know the drivers here in Arizona (Phoenix especially) and there WILL be some problems with this. I can see drivers using their cage to block so the lane splitters cannot get by. Tempers WILL flare. I can see drivers opening doors in fits of rage to block lane splitters (This is against the law of course) but they will do it! I can also see lots of down riders because drivers here do not look for motorcycles at all, let alone lane splitters. I have seen the lane splitting going on in California and for the most part, the drivers are mostly aware of them. Going to be a whole different ball game here! 

[RDKLL]

I am an Arizona native and I believe it has a place. I personally would not high speed lane split, but I would if I were stuck in traffic on a hot day. (Which here in Arizona we have plenty of them) However, I do see a big problem. Judging the drivers here and the amount of road rage that goes on here, I can see some drivers getting VERY IRRITATED at motorcyclist lane splitting, when ALL other traffic is at a stop. I see a huge problem when motorcyclist lane split to get to the front of the line at a stop light. I know the drivers here in Arizona (Phoenix especially) and there WILL be some problems with this. I can see drivers using their cage to block so the lane splitters cannot get by. Tempers WILL flare. I can see drivers opening doors in fits of rage to block lane splitters (This is against the law of course) but they will do it! I can also see lots of down riders because drivers here do not look for motorcycles at all, let alone lane splitters. I have seen the lane splitting going on in California and for the most part, the drivers are mostly aware of them. Going to be a whole different ball game here! 

Definitely will be a new ballgame but let a few get arrested after they are caught on tape being a dick or one that is carrying and feels threatened enough to make sure THAT particular dick never does it again. Like any change in the law there will need to be education...and enforcement if the lane splitting/filtering is not done within the confines of the law. I also agree that I would most likely filter on the surface streets because for the most part the HOV lane gets it done for me...I hope these bills have a chance.

[Kidd]

I did it in Orange County in the 1970s  , sometimes .
Just did not feel safe to do so , my opinion .       I am riding more and more , selectively , where there's less traffic , certain times of day  .     Being 62 , I am wanting to finish my life  without a major  calamity and lane spliting would add  to the possibility .
I am being "smart " with my maturity  

what does it mean to "filter" ?

[..]

All it takes is education.

  Excuse me whilst I pick myself up off the floor. 

The standard of driving in the USA is awful. In part due to the crap drivers ed but really because a large minority of drivers suck.

No I don't care how awful driving in other countries is. We are discussing road use in the USA.

[RDKLL]

what does it mean to "filter" ?

Filtering is where motorcycles work their way up to the front at a stop light...
Extreme filtering:

[..]

In quite a few European countries they have created boxes at the stop lights ahead of the cars etc for the 2 wheeled to "filter" into ready for the green.

[Kidd]

That's lane spliting , to me , RDKLL

If that is "filtering" , then what is  lane spliting ?

How are they different ?

[..]

That's lane spliting , to me , RDKLL

If that is "filtering" , then what is  lane spliting ?

How are they different ?

Lane splitting is done in moving traffic.

From when I was a motorcycle messenger in London.

Riding down Hanger Lane on a CB200 splitting lanes between a van and flat bed 18 wheeler. Van moves over and I end up with my right handlebar and mirror under the flat bed with about to squash me dead wheels in front and behind me. That taught me a lesson.

[Jess from VA]

Lane splitting is riding between moving cars, at a bit higher speed.  This is usually on freeways and major thoroughfares.  Though if traffic gets backed up, you may end up riding between stopped cars.  

Filtering is riding between rows of stopped (or stopping) cars up to a light, to depart earlier than they do, then doing it again at each light, as long as there is heavy traffic. This is usually in town, or the burbs.

Looking at that busy filtering pic from overseas, I would not mind sharing the road with the filtering bikes, but I would very much mind if they drug a handlebar down my paint job.  Also notice, there's not a single big dresser bike in that big filtering crowd, little singles and scooters mostly.


All over the world, driving in cities really requires owning a beater or old car you don't care so much about the looks.  In Detroit we called them ghetto cruisers, and they were owned and used by all races.  The other thing about Detroit industry was all the paint and chemicals and winter salt that would rot your car out going to and from work in the plants and mills.  And the bad roads and potholes. Parking at Zug Island at Great Lakes Steel, it would not be uncommon to find little dots of fresh paint all over your car and windows, once a week (red lead primer from the mill painters -  I was one of them).  You take a nice car down there, you assume the risk.

In this regard, I have often noted while riding in town in heavy traffic...... hmmm, that big fancy Beemer does not want to scrape up his nice car, so he probably won't hit me.  OR, hmmmm that old rusted out pickup truck doesn't give a rats ass about his truck, or if he hits me or not.  I could be wrong, but it's a pretty good educated guess.    

[Ramie]

I would much rather see them give motorcycles in heavy traffic the ability to use the left or right shoulder than to lane split.

[czuch]

I would, and I wouldn't. Helmet is a non issue.
As a friend of mine said one July afternoon, "Why do you live here, its hotter than the hub of hell".
During those days, I would probably go to the front.
I've also been caught in micro-bursts.
That's where rain comes from every direction, with hail, fierce wind and people in cars look at you mournfully. No need to pull over on the bike, you wont get wetter.
I'd probably take advantage of that too and find a bridge till it passes. Then you're dry in 20  miles.
Stuck on the freeway with 175 degree pavement, I'm going to.
Nice day, no real issues, I wouldn't.
BTW, I've been part of the problem.

[RDKLL]

I would much rather see them give motorcycles in heavy traffic the ability to use the left or right shoulder than to lane split.

What would the standard be for "heavy traffic"? And have you seen all the garbage that collects on the shoulders...