Government Shutdown ?

[The emperor has no clothes]

I don't know if it will happen Friday or not. But what I find excruciatingly symbolic of how F'd up our Congress is, is that apparently members of Congress will recieve their pay checks while members of the military will not. How arrogant can they possibly be ? I understand they will eventually recieve their back pay, but that is little help to a poor E-3 with a small family just getting by.

http://www.cnn.com/2018/01/17/politics/what-happens-government-shutdown-explainer-congress-budget/index.html

[Serk]

(Technically, I work for a federal agency so this would impact me, but I STILL would love to see the federal government shut down permanently!)

[The emperor has no clothes]

I've seen you state this before. Would you explain what you think we should have ? No government ? Different govt. ? If so, what would you replace it with ?

[Serk]

I've seen you state this before. Would you explain what you think we should have ? No government ? Different govt. ? If so, what would you replace it with ?

[The emperor has no clothes]

I've seen you state this before. Would you explain what you think we should have ? No government ? Different govt. ? If so, what would you replace it with ?

That's your answer ? Not everything boils down to a cute little meme. 

[Serk]

That's your answer ? Not everything boils down to a cute little meme. 

It does when I'm working and trying to get three 6 year olds in bed and trying to get a drama-filled 15 year old to do her homework and go to bed.

[The emperor has no clothes]

That's your answer ? Not everything boils down to a cute little meme. 

It does when I'm working and trying to get three 6 year olds in bed and trying to get a drama-filled 15 year old to do her homework and go to bed.

[Beardo]

That's your answer ? Not everything boils down to a cute little meme. 

It does when I'm working and trying to get three 6 year olds in bed and trying to get a drama-filled 15 year old to do her homework and go to bed.

I’m curious as to your thoughts as well Serk. I find it interesting that a lot of Americans are so patriotic yet so anti government.

I too used to be very patriotic. I still love my country and recognize the importance and value of it,  but am finding I find myself growing more and more upset with our current leader and the way the big cities and the rest of the country are just completely opposite in darn near everything. The politicians, while preaching their togetherness fluff, are actually driving wedges between different groups. 

I’m not sure what he solution is. If we get another Trudeau/Liberal government up here, I’ll have to cut the maple leaf tattoo off my leg.

[Serk]

In short, if you care to read up on it, if you had to label me I'd claim to be a minarchist or maybe even an anarco-capitalist, at least on the federal level, with perhaps a LITTLE more power, however highly restricted, at the state and local level.

(Although I'm more of a minarchist in regards to believing in state run courts and basic law enforcement.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minarchism

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarcho-capitalism

I try to adhere to the principals of the NAP, although I'll admit I'm not a "pure" libertarian brand libertarian by many standards:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-aggression_principle

So, in short, I'm not a pure anarchist, I believe there SHOULD be a state to provide for the common defense, basic law enforcement and courts for arbitration, but in general, if there's no victim, there's no crime.

That's about as detailed as I can get right now, it's bath night for the troublets... =\

[Gavin_Sons]

Remember when Obama shut the government down? Closed all the national parks. Apparently scenery and wildlife gets shut down too when the government does. They put barricades up on overlooks. That was stupid. When government shuts down pay the military and park people and let all the elected officials go without pay. Maybe they would get something done to earn their pay. I hope it does shut down Friday. 

[solo1]

I most certainly agree with Meathead and Gavin.

The government has its place but it's FUBAR.  Career politicians, which the founders never envisioned, special interests, BIG salaries and benefits that are beyond fair.

We need term limits for starters but guess who gets to vote on them? The same for equal treatment of citizens and politicians.. The lawmakers should be subject to ALL of the same laws that they pass as we are.  I could go on.

Couple that with those who want a free ride and politicians who willingly give it to them in exchange for votes and you have FUBAR there also.

I think Benjamin Franklin said something like, "The best government is a Republic, if you can keep it"

Of course the US is referred to as democracy.  It's interesting to me to see that people who like what's going on, Big Brother, are the same ones who bitch about the Electoral college in electing a president. The popular vote is democratic, the electoral college works according to
 a Republic (as I see it). Gotta put that in there as I'll probably get an argument here.

[old2soon]

OTHER than our Military most of the feds are overpaid. Far as they work thay turn out? yer kiddin-RIGHT???????????????? RIDE SAFE.

[MAD6Gun]

 So if the government shuts down who's fault will it be? The GOP got the blame for the last shutdown because they would not budge on obamacare.  So since the reason it will shutdown this time is because the DEMS won't budge on DACA. Whos fault will it be this time?  Years ago both Shumer and Obama said we need a wall and boarder security but somehow now that a Republican president wants to do it it's a bad idea.

[Pete]

There may be a simple solution to some of this.

If ever elected politician or appointed/elected judge/official that lied to the voting public was removed from office and spent 1 year in jail for each lie and was never allowed to run for office or hold a government job again, many of our problems would disappear.

I always feel safer when the house and senate is out of session.

[Hooter]

What's the difference?  They get as much done "in" session as they do "out". This us against them is only screwin tax paying public!

[scooperhsd]

I believe that government should be just big enough to do the jobs assigned to it - but no larger than necessary !

Echo the thoughts about "career politicians", " who get get more benefits than they should".  I believe Congress should be subject to ALL the laws they impose on the rest of us - that means they live with Obamacare, SS, etc. I would hope that being subject to them, that they would get them fixed correctly.

OTOH - a vast majority of federal workers (outside of the military as well), I do think earn their checks. Can pretty much say that about NC state / local workers as well.


IMO....

[RainMaker]

There may be a simple solution to some of this.

If ever elected politician or appointed/elected judge/official that lied to the voting public was removed from office and spent 1 year in jail for each lie and was never allowed to run for office or hold a government job again, many of our problems would disappear.

I always feel safer when the house and senate is out of session.

Talk about prison overcrowding!

[Jess from VA]

At least you'd think a shutdown would shave a little off the debt, but it doesn't.  Once things get fixed (for now), they go back and pay everyone for staying at home.  

On the one hand, it wasn't the workers fault the G got shut down, but on the other hand they stayed home and did nothing, so why should they get paid?  I was furloughed for three weeks or so under Clinton, without pay.  Since I don't live check to check it was no problem, but an amazing number of idiots do live check to check.  We had to be ready to return to work at any time, so it sucked that I could have had a 3-week vacation to go or do anything I wanted (this never happened otherwise during my 18 years there), but I had to stay close to home.    

When we all got lump sum back pay, I argued we should not be paid at all since we didn't work.  Boy it's a good thing workplace violence was frowned upon, or I might have been lynched.  You might be surprised to learn the vast majority of Fed workers vote D, and they'll vote D whether you give them back pay or not.

I like govt shutdowns.  It highlights how screwed up they really are.  But it ends up being spun into political hay in support of worse govt than before (and who would have thought that was even possible?).

Loving your country has very little to do with loving your govt.  I love my country in spite of my govt, not because of it.

[Beardo]

Loving your country has very little to do with loving your govt.  I love my country in spite of my govt, not because of it.

Good way of putting it. 

[phideux]

The Government should be in charge of the safety and security of the country, nothing else.
You want to end these "shutdowns". Set the Federal budget, the last thing paid out of the budget would be all the politicians salaries and expenses, they go over budget, they don't get paid, no more raising the debt ceiling.
Raising the debt ceiling???? Say you break a sewer line in your house, your living room starts filling up with sewage, what are you going to do??? Pump out the crap, or raise your ceilings?? We need to start pumping out the crap in this government. Do your own part, at every election vote against the incumbent, whether they are a D or an R(doesn't really matter anyway nowadays). Voter imposed term limits.
I bet when Obama did his shutdown it cost more than not having the shutdown. During the shutdown there is a piece of Federal land that I have hunted for over 20yrs, you can only get to it by boat, and I think I am the only person that actually hunts it. Never seen a game warden or any other person out there. During the shutdown, all of a sudden there are 2 federal officers in a brand new boat Patrolling this one little island in the middle of nowhere so I can't hunt there because it's closed.

[Gryphon Rider]

I too used to be very patriotic. I still love my country and recognize the importance and value of it,  but am finding I find myself growing more and more upset with our current leader and the way the big cities and the rest of the country are just completely opposite in darn near everything. The politicians, while preaching their togetherness fluff, are actually driving wedges between different groups. 

I’m not sure what he solution is. If we get another Trudeau/Liberal government up here, I’ll have to cut the maple leaf tattoo off my leg.

Rather than cut the maple leaf off of your leg, let's just cut off everything east of Manitoba.

[Wizzard]

I too used to be very patriotic. I still love my country and recognize the importance and value of it,  but am finding I find myself growing more and more upset with our current leader and the way the big cities and the rest of the country are just completely opposite in darn near everything. The politicians, while preaching their togetherness fluff, are actually driving wedges between different groups. 

I’m not sure what he solution is. If we get another Trudeau/Liberal government up here, I’ll have to cut the maple leaf tattoo off my leg.

Rather than cut the maple leaf off of your leg, let's just cut off everything east of Manitoba.

Now thats a Canuck response I would have expected. 

[Serk]

Dangit! I was just notified that I'm NOT considered non-essential, so even if the government does shut down, I don't get the weekend off...

Just my luck, after a week of extremely cold sub-freezing temperatures, it's 'sposed to be in the 70's this weekend, but I've gotta work. Was hoping congress might get me the weekend off, but it's not to be...

[Jess from VA]

The old essential vs nonessential deal has always peaked my interest.

The twenty dollar questions is, why do we allow the Fed to have any nonessential employees?

What I want to know is, when you work from home, how do you know if you have a day off? 

When our USDVA dept started the work at home program (only 3 days a week, you still had to come in one or two days (5 X 8s or 4 X 10s) a week, after a while, they started calling people at home randomly and were very unhappy when no one answered the phone.   

[Serk]

The old essential vs nonessential deal has always peaked my interest.

The twenty dollar questions is, why do we allow the Fed to have any nonessential employees?

What I want to know is, when you work from home, how do you know if you have a day off? 

Now that I know I'm essential personnel (Even though I'm a contractor) I agree, they should round up all the non-essential employees and lay them all off...

Kinda funny, I have some changes lined up this weekend that I need to still do my part although the federal employees I'll be working with might or might not be there to do their part. Gotta love it...

As far as how you know when you have a day off, you don't have to log on to your laptop, check your e-mail, check your ticket/change queue and don't have to respond to Skype messages.

(Luckily we've mostly moved beyond phone calls anymore, we communicate almost entirely via e-mail and instant messaging.)

[msb]

What I want to know is, when you work from home, how do you know if you have a day off? 
  

I work from home Mondays & Fridays, Jess... I know I have the afternoon off today because I'm going to the annual BC motorcycle show 

[Wizzard]

I bet the shutdown would not happen or be very short if all of congress and senate had their pay suspended for the duration. If the places we all work shuts down we don't get paid.
I also think we should re-instate the draft. Then draft in this order.
All congress and senates offspring drafted first.
Then go according to wealth with the wealthiest being first.
Then put all the doctors and lawyers in the front because when they yell "CHARGE" those suckers know how to charge.

I bet we would never go to war or if we did it would not last long.

[¿spoom]

From OMB Director Mulvaney's press conference this morning;

Q   If I could just ask about your comment at the beginning of this.  You said this was the “Schumer shutdown.”  How can it be the Schumer shutdown when Republicans control the White House, the House, and the Senate?

DIRECTOR MULVANEY:  Come on, you know the answer to that as well as anybody.  I mean, I have to laugh when people say that.  “Oh, well, you control the House, the Senate, and the White House — why can’t you get this done?”

Q    But you do.  You do.

DIRECTOR MULVANEY:  You know as well as anybody that it takes 60 votes in the Senate to pass an appropriations bill.  Right?  You know that.

Q    I know that.

DIRECTOR MULVANEY:  Okay, so when you only have 51 votes in the Senate, then you have to have Democrat support in order to keep the government — to fund the government.  So that’s the answer to your question.

Q    So the President asked Congress to come up with a solution for the DREAMers, Congress was in the room — members of Congress were in the room with the President last week.  It seemed to be a fairly productive meeting.  And then the whole process got blown up.  And it seems —

DIRECTOR MULVANEY:  Republicans tried to —

Q    And if I may, it seems that the whole process was blown up by the President’s comments.  So why not just give the Democrats the DREAMers, and you can get out of this?

DIRECTOR MULVANEY:  When Republicans tried to add a discussion about Obamacare to the funding process in 2013, we were accused by Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer of inserting a non-fiscal — a non-financial issue into the spending process in order to shut the government down.  How is that not exactly what is happening today?  There is no reason that you have to deal with DACA this week.  There’s no reason you have to deal with DACA before the end of February — excuse me, the middle of February.  DACA doesn’t expire until March 5th.  This is purely an attempt by the Senate Democrats, led by Mr. Schumer — it’s why we call it the “Schumer shutdown” — in order to try and get a shutdown that they think this President gets blamed for.

Yes, ma’am.

Q    You’re saying that you need Democrat support in the Senate.  So are there —

DIRECTOR MULVANEY:  We got it in the House.

Q    So are there any concessions that this White House is willing to make to possibly try to get support from those Democrats that you need?

DIRECTOR MULVANEY:  Again, go back to what I said at the opening.  They don’t oppose anything in there.  They support CHIP.  In fact, every member of the Finance Subcommittee or something like that, voted — a Democrat has voted for this exact CHIP extension.  They don’t want the Cadillac tax to go into place.  They’ve always supported clean CRs.  Why would you have to — those are concessions.  Ordinarily, you would just simply put up a clean CR and let them vote it.  And again, it worked in the House; there were several Democrats who voted for it.

Q    So is it take-it-or-leave-it on the bill that passed the House?  They have to take — so Democrats have to support the bill in the House to avert a shutdown?

DIRECTOR MULVANEY:  Democrats should support the bill in the Senate.  Again, the House has passed a bill, okay?  The Senate has a couple different choices.  They cannot take it up.  This is basic civics, right?  Either they take it up and pass it, take it up and don’t pass it, or they change it and send it back to the House.

The point of the matter is, though, there ae things on this bill that they like.  They have nothing in this bill that they do not like.  The only reason they are not voting for it is that they want other things to be added to it and they want a shutdown.  That’s the only explanation we have.
Q    The main thing Democrats want added is DACA.

DIRECTOR MULVANEY:  Yeah.

Q    And you’ve said before — many of you have said, everyone agrees they want a solution on DACA.  So what is the big sticking point, then, on your end about including a DACA fix in this bill?

DIRECTOR MULVANEY:  I think Marc mentioned that earlier.  The bill is simply not ready.  You don’t get to vote on a summary.  You don’t get to vote on —

Q    (Inaudible) months to work on this.

DIRECTOR MULVANEY:  There have been months of work.  As you see with any major piece of legislation, it doesn’t and shouldn’t come together overnight.  There’s no DACA bill to vote on and there’s no emergency in terms of the timing on DACA.  DACA does not expire until March 5th.  So there’s absolutely no reason to tie these two things together right now.

MR. SHORT:  If I follow up on that one question.  Again, I think it’s important to remember that, yes, we’re approaching the March 5th deadline, but the President put forward what he asked for last fall.  We’ve been asking Congress to address this.

And, Jim, back to your question — the reality is, there is no legislation for them to pull up.  They say there is this Flake-Durbin-Graham proposal; there is not legislation to vote on.  So when they say we need to have DACA solved before you do a continuing resolution to keep the government open, there isn’t actually a bill for them to even vote on — which I think shows that this is really about politics and not really about policy.

DIRECTOR MULVANEY:  And I think General Kelly will also tell you that he actually mentioned this to the senators during his confirmation process.  So this administration has been trying for at least a year now to get some progress on DACA and it’s Congress that’s taking that —

[old2soon]

ALL and I mean ALL those richard craniums need to git said craniums out of the rectal cavity-theirs or someone else's-it is currently embedded in. End career politicians NOW as in term limits. I've felt since the 60s the gubmint do not no how no way have the citizens best interests at heart. The hell of it is with todays "media"-a term I use LIGHTLY-it's right out there as it happens. dumb asses-couldn't find their azzes with a 10 man working party.  Borrowing a line from Amos and Andy-I iz regusted!  RIDE SAFE.

[MP]

DACA is about 800,000. Dreamers about 3.6 million!
They are NOT the same.

[The emperor has no clothes]

DACA is about 800,000. Dreamers about 3.6 million!
They are NOT the same.

3.6 million Dreamers ?

[Serk]

DACA is about 800,000. Dreamers about 3.6 million!
They are NOT the same.

3.6 million Dreamers ?

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2018/01/18/there-3-5-m-dreamers-and-most-may-face-nightmare/1042134001/

[LandElephant]

I'd like to add this to the concept of docking the pay of politicians.  When was the last time there was an approved annual budget?  Dock the senators and congressmen their pay when on October 1 there isn't a approved and signed budget. They don't get paid until a budget is approved. Can you imagine the politicians not getting paid for how long now, three years?  that would fly with them.  Then for every year they don't pass a budget, reduce their pay by the last pay raise they gave themselves and they don't get back pay. Also take away from their operation budget by at least 10% for every time they don't pass a approved budget.  They need to feel extreme pain for their arrogance.  

Don't any of you including the enlighten ones think the these politicians need to go back and do their business, the business of the people.  The country shouldn't even be in this position if during the last year congress actually passed a budget instead of Continuing Resolutions.

As far as DACA and Immigration reform, every administration since Reagan has been tell congress this country needs immigration reform and nobody has done anything about it.  They didn't want to touch it and now here we are having a crisis.  Oh and according to the enlighten ones it's Trumps fault. To me, all President Trump has done has thrown the immigration bomb right into congress lap.  Poop or get of the pot.

This is just one of many large issues that the career politicians have been spineless on. SSN, VA Healthcare, Medicare, Infrastructure, and education are some of the others.  Imagine the politicians were required to use only the VA or military healthcare while they are serving the country.  Magically it would be fixed.  Forced to have the same retirement plans that many of us have instead of what them have voted for themselves, SSN would magically be fixed.  As said in the King and I "and so on and so forth."

Charlie Morse
Landelephant

[Robert]

Sad when members of congress will put immigrants before the American people, it shows particular malice when the issue doesnt have to be decided for another couple of months and the temporary budget could be approved

[Serk]

Sad when members of congress will put immigrants before the American people.

Heck, not even just immigrants but specifically illegal immigrants... I guess we see where the Democrats' priorities lie, when they favor illegal aliens over US citizens, our military, etc...

[¿spoom]

I'd like to add this to the concept of docking the pay of politicians.  When was the last time there was an approved annual budget?  Dock the senators and congressmen their pay when on October 1 there isn't a approved and signed budget. They don't get paid until a budget is approved. Can you imagine the politicians not getting paid for how long now, three years?  that would fly with them.  Then for every year they don't pass a budget, reduce their pay by the last pay raise they gave themselves and they don't get back pay. Also take away from their operation budget by at least 10% for every time they don't pass a approved budget.  They need to feel extreme pain for their arrogance.  

Don't any of you including the enlighten ones think the these politicians need to go back and do their business, the business of the people.  The country shouldn't even be in this position if during the last year congress actually passed a budget instead of Continuing Resolutions.

As far as DACA and Immigration reform, every administration since Reagan has been tell congress this country needs immigration reform and nobody has done anything about it.  They didn't want to touch it and now here we are having a crisis.  Oh and according to the enlighten ones it's Trumps fault. To me, all President Trump has done has thrown the immigration bomb right into congress lap.  Poop or get of the pot.

This is just one of many large issues that the career politicians have been spineless on. SSN, VA Healthcare, Medicare, Infrastructure, and education are some of the others.  Imagine the politicians were required to use only the VA or military healthcare while they are serving the country.  Magically it would be fixed.  Forced to have the same retirement plans that many of us have instead of what them have voted for themselves, SSN would magically be fixed.  As said in the King and I "and so on and so forth."

Charlie Morse
Landelephant

\

Everyone has their own concept of immigration "reform". My idea for reform is to enforce the laws as long as they're on the books. Some others feel "reform" is strike down what they agree with, even without the votes.
On the shutdown, I do lay a small amount of blame on the President for letting the liberals keep having an illusion they are in charge. DACA is nothing more than an Obama Executive Order to stop enforcing part of the immigration law. Trump could and should have kept his promise to put an end to that with an Executive Order of his own. His predecessor told us, "elections have consequences" and that should have been one of them. There wouldn't have been any kind of horrible brownshirt round-up because the decision(s) to prosecute would be on a case by case basis. There WOULD have been a reason to come to the table in Congress and see if the votes were there to change the law, and how. If not, then the people have spoken and the law is already in place. Period. After Obama was elected, his opposition took control of the House and Senate. Obviously there was and is not a mandate for a pure Obama/Pelosi/Schumer thought process on how to run the country. Time to quit appeasing the Democrats as if they were in charge.

[¿spoom]

DACA is about 800,000. Dreamers about 3.6 million!
They are NOT the same.

True, but strip away the biased names and they are all illegal aliens. Enforce the laws or change them IMHO

[michaelyoung254]

DACA is about 800,000. Dreamers about 3.6 million!
They are NOT the same.

True, but strip away the biased names and they are all illegal aliens. Enforce the laws or change them IMHO

IMHO, this whole thing is really nothing more than an attempt by Demoncrats to instantly gain a huge voting pool (about 3.6 million votes). With this huge influx of new voters who will almost be guaranteed to pull the lever for the Demoncrat candidates, there will now be a very real potential to flip traditionally red states to blue.

[Jess from VA]

DACA is about 800,000. Dreamers about 3.6 million!
They are NOT the same.

True, but strip away the biased names and they are all illegal aliens. Enforce the laws or change them IMHO

IMHO, this whole thing is really nothing more than an attempt by Demoncrats to instantly gain a huge voting pool (about 3.6 million votes). With this huge influx of new voters who will almost be guaranteed to pull the lever for the Demoncrat candidates, there will now be a very real potential to flip traditionally red states to blue.

BINGO!!!!!  

[Robert]

So maybe Trump didnt lose the popular vote after all.  ???     


In the letter, Judicial Watch noted that public records obtained on the Election Assistance Commission’s 2016 Election Administration Voting Survey and through verbal accounts from various county agencies show 11 California counties have more registered voters than voting-age citizens: Imperial (102%), Lassen (102%), Los Angeles (112%), Monterey (104%), San Diego (138%), San Francisco (114%), San Mateo (111%), Santa Cruz (109%), Solano (111%), Stanislaus (102%), and Yolo (110%).

Judicial Watch went on to report that officials from Los Angeles County since told the watchdog group in June that the “total number of registered voters now stands at a number that is a whopping 144% of the total number of resident citizens of voting age” for that county.