This is us

[The emperor has no clothes]

"There’s no escaping who we Americans have become: This is the election’s meaning. We are stuck with one another, seeing no way out and no apparent way through, sinking deeper into a state of mutual incomprehension and loathing. The possible exits—gradual de-escalation, majority breakthrough, clean separation, civil war—are either unlikely or unthinkable. We have to live and govern ourselves together, but we still don’t know how. Winning in this state becomes a chimera. Whoever takes the presidency, all Americans will remain the losers."

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/11/theres-no-escaping-who-we-have-become/616992/

[Wizzard]

This will work as long as both sides are willing to compromise. The minute one side refuses to compromise it quits working. Especially if we express hate.

[The emperor has no clothes]

This will work as long as both sides are willing to compromise. The minute one side refuses to compromise it quits working. Especially if we express hate.

Sadly, I'm not sure we have the capability to do this. 

[Wizzard]

This will work as long as both sides are willing to compromise. The minute one side refuses to compromise it quits working. Especially if we express hate.

Sadly, I'm not sure we have the capability to do this. 

Oh we have the capability, its just a matter if we choose to use it or not. If we let our hate get in the way then we wont sadly.

[Pete]

Sorry folks, but I suspect this election stupidity has completed the process and it is terminally unfixable.....

[f6gal]

"There’s no escaping who we Americans have become: This is the election’s meaning. We are stuck with one another, seeing no way out and no apparent way through, sinking deeper into a state of mutual incomprehension and loathing. The possible exits—gradual de-escalation, majority breakthrough, clean separation, civil war—are either unlikely or unthinkable. We have to live and govern ourselves together, but we still don’t know how. Winning in this state becomes a chimera. Whoever takes the presidency, all Americans will remain the losers."

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/11/theres-no-escaping-who-we-have-become/616992/

I agree with the title and sub-title of the article.  The rest of it was partisan bullshit.

[The emperor has no clothes]

"There’s no escaping who we Americans have become: This is the election’s meaning. We are stuck with one another, seeing no way out and no apparent way through, sinking deeper into a state of mutual incomprehension and loathing. The possible exits—gradual de-escalation, majority breakthrough, clean separation, civil war—are either unlikely or unthinkable. We have to live and govern ourselves together, but we still don’t know how. Winning in this state becomes a chimera. Whoever takes the presidency, all Americans will remain the losers."

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/11/theres-no-escaping-who-we-have-become/616992/

I agree with the title and sub-title of the article.  The rest of it was partisan bullshit.

Interesting. I saw it as anti-partisan. For me, the gist of the article was "we don't understand each other". Nor do we seem to want to try. I admit to being just as guilty. I never imagined Trump would derive more support than he did in 2016. Obviously I was wrong. But, here we are. What do we do now ? We have got to figure out a way to be 1 nation again.

[scooperhsd]

The Atlantic article is Garbage.

[f6gal]

"There’s no escaping who we Americans have become: This is the election’s meaning. We are stuck with one another, seeing no way out and no apparent way through, sinking deeper into a state of mutual incomprehension and loathing. The possible exits—gradual de-escalation, majority breakthrough, clean separation, civil war—are either unlikely or unthinkable. We have to live and govern ourselves together, but we still don’t know how. Winning in this state becomes a chimera. Whoever takes the presidency, all Americans will remain the losers."

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/11/theres-no-escaping-who-we-have-become/616992/

I agree with the title and sub-title of the article.  The rest of it was partisan bullshit.

Interesting. I saw it as anti-partisan. For me, the gist of the article was "we don't understand each other". Nor do we seem to want to try. I admit to being just as guilty. I never imagined Trump would derive more support than he did in 2016. Obviously I was wrong. But, he we are. What do we do now ? We have got to figure out a way to be 1 nation again.

Apparently you didn't read past the first paragraph. 

[The emperor has no clothes]

"There’s no escaping who we Americans have become: This is the election’s meaning. We are stuck with one another, seeing no way out and no apparent way through, sinking deeper into a state of mutual incomprehension and loathing. The possible exits—gradual de-escalation, majority breakthrough, clean separation, civil war—are either unlikely or unthinkable. We have to live and govern ourselves together, but we still don’t know how. Winning in this state becomes a chimera. Whoever takes the presidency, all Americans will remain the losers."

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/11/theres-no-escaping-who-we-have-become/616992/

I agree with the title and sub-title of the article.  The rest of it was partisan bullshit.

Interesting. I saw it as anti-partisan. For me, the gist of the article was "we don't understand each other". Nor do we seem to want to try. I admit to being just as guilty. I never imagined Trump would derive more support than he did in 2016. Obviously I was wrong. But, he we are. What do we do now ? We have got to figure out a way to be 1 nation again.

Apparently you didn't read past the first paragraph. 

I read it 3 times. Just because he said mean things about Trump doesn't detract from the message.

[Willow]

I read it 3 times. Just because he said mean things about Trump doesn't detract from the message.

Actually it does.  It would also detract from the message if someone wrote that we had to find a way to get together as 1 America and then commented on what a liar and corrupt politician Joe Biden is.

Saying attacking things about someone supported by half the American population simply negates the expression of any desire for us to come together.  

[The emperor has no clothes]

I read it 3 times. Just because he said mean things about Trump doesn't detract from the message.

Actually it does.  It would also detract from the message if someone wrote that we had to find a way to get together as 1 America and then commented on what a liar and corrupt politician Joe Biden is.

Saying attacking things about someone supported by half the American politician simply negates the expression of any desire for us to come together. 

He wasn't writing the article as a desire to come together. (At least that's my take) He wrote the article pointing out the errors of both sides, and where we are at.

[Willow]

I read it 3 times. Just because he said mean things about Trump doesn't detract from the message.

Actually it does.  It would also detract from the message if someone wrote that we had to find a way to get together as 1 America and then commented on what a liar and corrupt politician Joe Biden is.

Saying attacking things about someone supported by half the American politician simply negates the expression of any desire for us to come together. 

He wasn't writing the article as a desire to come together. (At least that's my take) He wrote the article pointing out the errors of both sides, and where we are at.

The errors of both sides.  I saw it as the alleged errors of one side.  It seems some view certain messages through squinted eyes.

I agree with f6Gal.

[The emperor has no clothes]

I read it 3 times. Just because he said mean things about Trump doesn't detract from the message.

Actually it does.  It would also detract from the message if someone wrote that we had to find a way to get together as 1 America and then commented on what a liar and corrupt politician Joe Biden is.

Saying attacking things about someone supported by half the American politician simply negates the expression of any desire for us to come together. 

He wasn't writing the article as a desire to come together. (At least that's my take) He wrote the article pointing out the errors of both sides, and where we are at.

The errors of both sides.  I saw it as the alleged errors of one side.  It seems some view certain messages through squinted eyes.

I agree with f6Gal.

Some get their feelings hurt and then fail to read.

[..]

I read it 3 times. Just because he said mean things about Trump doesn't detract from the message.

Actually it does.  It would also detract from the message if someone wrote that we had to find a way to get together as 1 America and then commented on what a liar and corrupt politician Joe Biden is.

Saying attacking things about someone supported by half the American politician simply negates the expression of any desire for us to come together. 

He wasn't writing the article as a desire to come together. (At least that's my take) He wrote the article pointing out the errors of both sides, and where we are at.

The errors of both sides.  I saw it as the alleged errors of one side.  It seems some view certain messages through squinted eyes.

I agree with f6Gal.

Some get their feelings hurt and then fail to read.

Thanks for admitting it.     

"Tens of millions of Americans love MAGA more than they love democracy. After four years of lawbreaking and norm-busting, there can be no illusions about President Donald Trump. His first term culminated in an open effort to sabotage the legitimacy of the election and prevent Americans from voting. His rallies in the final week of the campaign were red-drenched festivals of mass hate, autocratic self-absorption, and boredom, without a glimmer of a better future on offer—and they might have put Trump over the top in Florida and elsewhere."

[f6gal]

I read it 3 times. Just because he said mean things about Trump doesn't detract from the message.

Actually it does.  It would also detract from the message if someone wrote that we had to find a way to get together as 1 America and then commented on what a liar and corrupt politician Joe Biden is.

Saying attacking things about someone supported by half the American politician simply negates the expression of any desire for us to come together. 

He wasn't writing the article as a desire to come together. (At least that's my take) He wrote the article pointing out the errors of both sides, and where we are at.

Where did he excoriate the "other" side? 

[f6gal]

I read it 3 times. Just because he said mean things about Trump doesn't detract from the message.

Actually it does.  It would also detract from the message if someone wrote that we had to find a way to get together as 1 America and then commented on what a liar and corrupt politician Joe Biden is.

Saying attacking things about someone supported by half the American politician simply negates the expression of any desire for us to come together. 

He wasn't writing the article as a desire to come together. (At least that's my take) He wrote the article pointing out the errors of both sides, and where we are at.

The errors of both sides.  I saw it as the alleged errors of one side.  It seems some view certain messages through squinted eyes.

I agree with f6Gal.

Some get their feelings hurt and then fail to read.

Thanks for admitting it.     

"Tens of millions of Americans love MAGA more than they love democracy. After four years of lawbreaking and norm-busting, there can be no illusions about President Donald Trump. His first term culminated in an open effort to sabotage the legitimacy of the election and prevent Americans from voting. His rallies in the final week of the campaign were red-drenched festivals of mass hate, autocratic self-absorption, and boredom, without a glimmer of a better future on offer—and they might have put Trump over the top in Florida and elsewhere."

Yep, looks non-partisan to me. 

[f6gal]

Honestly, I almost wholly blame the media for the country's divide.  They have turned the "news" into partisan opinion shows and articles.  They blatantly spew their opinions, report the stories that support their agenda, and ignore stories that don't support their agenda.  This can be said of both "left" and "right" news sites and publications.  There just happens to be more "left" sources.  Actually, if they were doing their jobs correctly, we shouldn't even be able to tell if a news outlet is "left" or "right."  

Politicians are politicians, they will do what politicians do.  That's why the Constitution specifically speaks of the press.  In the past, the press has forced some political accountability; now they only do so if it aligns with their own politics.  They rarely investigate, merely spouting their party's talking points.  You can tell because they repeat the same exact phrases.  

I've asked these questions before, but whatever happened to investigative journalism, journalistic curiosity, and journalistic integrity?  

I mourn for our country. 

[The emperor has no clothes]

I read it 3 times. Just because he said mean things about Trump doesn't detract from the message.

Actually it does.  It would also detract from the message if someone wrote that we had to find a way to get together as 1 America and then commented on what a liar and corrupt politician Joe Biden is.

Saying attacking things about someone supported by half the American politician simply negates the expression of any desire for us to come together. 

He wasn't writing the article as a desire to come together. (At least that's my take) He wrote the article pointing out the errors of both sides, and where we are at.

Where did he excoriate the "other" side? 

Excoriate is your word. I said errors.

"The votes show that progressives’ habit of seeing Americans as molecules dissolved in vast and undifferentiated ethnic and racial solutions without individual agency is both analytically misleading and politically self-defeating, doing actual harm to the cause of equality."

"Having a basically sane worldview can make it harder to detect the creeping influence of self-delusion. How many people do you know who refused to believe that Trump could win a fair election? Antisocial media has us all in its grip."

[Robert]

As usual there is no appreciation of anyone elses point of view, as usual the OP has a BS article that feels good to him but has no sense of agreement or understanding of what is really happening.

Are you freaking kidding with this dribble laced tirade of the president? Yet clothe it in a soft BS overtone of unity.

His first term culminated in an open effort to sabotage the legitimacy of the election and prevent Americans from voting.

His rallies in the final week of the campaign were red-drenched festivals of mass hate, autocratic self-absorption, and boredom, without a glimmer of a better future on offer—and they might have put Trump over the top in Florida and elsewhere


Tens of millions of Americans love MAGA more than they love democracy. After four years of lawbreaking and norm-busting, there can be no illusions about President Donald Trump.

[LTD]

No point in voting anymore at least for me its clearly rigged.  No way Georgia a deep south state votes majority Biden not buying it.

[f6gal]

I read it 3 times. Just because he said mean things about Trump doesn't detract from the message.

Actually it does.  It would also detract from the message if someone wrote that we had to find a way to get together as 1 America and then commented on what a liar and corrupt politician Joe Biden is.

Saying attacking things about someone supported by half the American politician simply negates the expression of any desire for us to come together. 

He wasn't writing the article as a desire to come together. (At least that's my take) He wrote the article pointing out the errors of both sides, and where we are at.

Where did he excoriate the "other" side? 

Excoriate is your word. I said errors.

"The votes show that progressives’ habit of seeing Americans as molecules dissolved in vast and undifferentiated ethnic and racial solutions without individual agency is both analytically misleading and politically self-defeating, doing actual harm to the cause of equality."

"Having a basically sane worldview can make it harder to detect the creeping influence of self-delusion. How many people do you know who refused to believe that Trump could win a fair election? Antisocial media has us all in its grip."

The point was that he did excoriate one side and not the other.

[The emperor has no clothes]

As usual there is no appreciation of anyone elses point of view, as usual the OP has a BS article that feels good to him but has no substance and no sense of agreement because the right is looked at as deplorable.


Tens of millions of Americans love MAGA more than they love democracy. After four years of lawbreaking and norm-busting, there can be no illusions about President Donald Trump.

I guess these posts just reinforce the thesis of the article. The article does not "feel good" to me. It's downright sad actually.

[The emperor has no clothes]

I read it 3 times. Just because he said mean things about Trump doesn't detract from the message.

Actually it does.  It would also detract from the message if someone wrote that we had to find a way to get together as 1 America and then commented on what a liar and corrupt politician Joe Biden is.

Saying attacking things about someone supported by half the American politician simply negates the expression of any desire for us to come together. 

He wasn't writing the article as a desire to come together. (At least that's my take) He wrote the article pointing out the errors of both sides, and where we are at.

Where did he excoriate the "other" side? 

Excoriate is your word. I said errors.

"The votes show that progressives’ habit of seeing Americans as molecules dissolved in vast and undifferentiated ethnic and racial solutions without individual agency is both analytically misleading and politically self-defeating, doing actual harm to the cause of equality."

"Having a basically sane worldview can make it harder to detect the creeping influence of self-delusion. How many people do you know who refused to believe that Trump could win a fair election? Antisocial media has us all in its grip."

The point was that he did excoriate one side and not the other.

What would you have liked him to excoriate the Democrats about ? Or should he have not pointed out the falsehoods of QAnon ?

[Robert]

As usual there is no appreciation of anyone elses point of view, as usual the OP has a BS article that feels good to him but has no substance and no sense of agreement because the right is looked at as deplorable.


Tens of millions of Americans love MAGA more than they love democracy. After four years of lawbreaking and norm-busting, there can be no illusions about President Donald Trump.

I guess these posts just reinforce the thesis of the article. The article does not "feel good" to me. It's downright sad actually.

For you from your article.

Many of the most influential journalists and pollsters continue to fail to understand how most of their compatriots think, even as these experts spend ever more of their time talking with one another on Twitter and in TV studios.

But

Personally to me they are trying to steal the election

I want to challenge you personally to push and admit to proceed with the investigation and prosecution of Hunter
Biden and Joe Biden for being in Chinas pocket.

Also to prosecute and admit the truth about those who created the Russia Hoax, if you are not willing to do that then you are not for freedom and fairness of all men and we will not see eye to eye.

Because this does not even address the Hillary Clinton charity nor the emails or the tens of other things this corrupt admin has done.

Because some day when you need equal justice you will not receive it, why because justice under these admins is NOT equal.

If Trump does not retain the presidency and does not prosecute those involved in these issues then Justice, American truthful justice may be dead and what it is replaced with is a pay for play communistic system and YOU and others like you will be as much responsible as if you yourself had done the dirty deed, because you do NOT denounce or seek to prosecute them. Essentially agreeing with them that do these deeds, just like the NY legislature applauding when they approved the KILLING Of BABIES and actually held a party in celebration of what they did.

IF you do not understand this then freedom is lost on you because you cannot have freedom without equal justice.

AT least who ever Q is does not approve of riots to raise money , does not approve the unequal justice of a corrupt system and does not wage war against its own people.

This is a bitter pill and its not because of Trump, its because the very ideal of truth, justice and the American way may die at this point in history, almost like the day Kennedy was shot with no less drama.

That is why your article sucks its because they say they know these values yet call Trump all these names, when Joe Biden has been in political office for 47 years and fostered the pay to play system and has done nothing to eliminate it. He cannot do it now either because he does not have the cognitive abilities to do more than be a puppet for those that control hiim and they are not going to do a thing.

Say hello to Obama for me in his multi million dollar mansions he lives in since his presidency.

Trump or any man in office would be popular because he held these ideals above all,

 and had the power, intelligence and decency to pursue them regardless of personal cost,

not purse an ideal the USA is not, at the cost of its citizens like Obama did.

[Skinhead]

What do we do now ? We have got to figure out a way to be 1 nation again.

One thing comes to mind that would help: STOP THE F-ING ELECTION FRAUD! 

The Democrats can't win an honest, fair election, so they cheat.  This is not over by a long shot.

A second thing just occurred to me, charge, try, and punish wrong doing (Biden, Clinton, Pelosi, Comey, and any Republicans as well).  Lopsided justice will certainly not get us there.

[The emperor has no clothes]

What do we do now ? We have got to figure out a way to be 1 nation again.

One thing comes to mind that would help: STOP THE F-ING ELECTION FRAUD! 

The Democrats can't win an honest, fair election, so they cheat.  This is not over by a long shot.

A second thing just occurred to me, charge, try, and punish wrong doing (Biden, Clinton, Pelosi, Comey, and any Republicans as well).  Lopsided justice will certainly not get us there.

Brilliant synopsis Skin. 

[Skinhead]

As usual there is no appreciation of anyone elses point of view, as usual the OP has a BS article that feels good to him but has no substance and no sense of agreement because the right is looked at as deplorable.


Tens of millions of Americans love MAGA more than they love democracy. After four years of lawbreaking and norm-busting, there can be no illusions about President Donald Trump.

I guess these posts just reinforce the thesis of the article. The article does not "feel good" to me. It's downright sad actually.

For you from your article.

Many of the most influential journalists and pollsters continue to fail to understand how most of their compatriots think, even as these experts spend ever more of their time talking with one another on Twitter and in TV studios.

But

Personally to me they are trying to steal the election

I want to challenge you personally to push and admit to proceed with the investigation and prosecution of Hunter
Biden and Joe Biden for being in Chinas pocket.

Also to prosecute and admit the truth about those who created the Russia Hoax, if you are not willing to do that then you are not for freedom and fairness of all men and we will not see eye to eye.

Because this does not even address the Hillary Clinton charity nor the emails or the tens of other things this corrupt admin has done.

Because some day when you need equal justice you will not receive it, why because justice under these admins is NOT equal.

If Trump does not retain the presidency and does not prosecute those involved in these issues then Justice, American truthful justice may be dead and what it is replaced with is a pay for play communistic system and YOU and others like you will be as much responsible as if you yourself had done the dirty deed, because you do NOT denounce or seek to prosecute them. Essentially agreeing with them that do these deeds, just like the NY legislature applauding when they approved the KILLING Of BABIES and actually held a party in celebration of what they did.

IF you do not understand this then freedom is lost on you because you cannot have freedom without equal justice.

AT least who ever Q is does not approve of riots to raise money , does not approve the unequal justice of a corrupt system and does not wage war against its own people.

This is a bitter pill and its not because of Trump, its because the very ideal of truth, justice and the American way may die at this point in history, almost like the day Kennedy was shot with no less drama.

That is why your article sucks its because they say they know these values yet call Trump all these names, when Joe Biden has been in political office for 47 years and fostered the pay to play system and has done nothing to eliminate it. He cannot do it now either because he does not have the cognitive abilities to do more than be a puppet for those that control hiim and they are not going to do a thing.

Say hello to Obama for me in his multi million dollar mansions he lives in since his presidency.

Trump or any man in office would be popular because he held these ideals above all,

 and had the power, intelligence and decency to pursue them regardless of personal cost,

not purse an ideal the USA is not, at the cost of its citizens like Obama did.

VERY well said Robert.

[f6gal]

I read it 3 times. Just because he said mean things about Trump doesn't detract from the message.

Actually it does.  It would also detract from the message if someone wrote that we had to find a way to get together as 1 America and then commented on what a liar and corrupt politician Joe Biden is.

Saying attacking things about someone supported by half the American politician simply negates the expression of any desire for us to come together.  

He wasn't writing the article as a desire to come together. (At least that's my take) He wrote the article pointing out the errors of both sides, and where we are at.

Where did he excoriate the "other" side?  

Excoriate is your word. I said errors.

"The votes show that progressives’ habit of seeing Americans as molecules dissolved in vast and undifferentiated ethnic and racial solutions without individual agency is both analytically misleading and politically self-defeating, doing actual harm to the cause of equality."

"Having a basically sane worldview can make it harder to detect the creeping influence of self-delusion. How many people do you know who refused to believe that Trump could win a fair election? Antisocial media has us all in its grip."

The point was that he did excoriate one side and not the other.

What would you have liked him to excoriate the Democrats about ? Or should he have not pointed out the falsehoods of QAnon ?

So, you agree with me, it was not non-partisan.  He did not excoriate the democrats.  He clearly excoriated the other side.  It's shocking that you think Democrats are pristine, with no fault in our current situation.  

Just to be clear, I wasn't referring to the author's comments about QAnon.  QAnon is a fringe organization; most Republicans know little about it.  Trump is not a QAnon advocate.  There are plenty of left-wing fringe organizations as well, but your author didn't call them out, even with all their violence.  I've seen more democrats supporting left-wing fringe organizations than Republicans supporting QAnon.

[Jersey mike]

What do we do now ? We have got to figure out a way to be 1 nation again.

One thing comes to mind that would help: STOP THE F-ING ELECTION FRAUD! 

The Democrats can't win an honest, fair election, so they cheat.  This is not over by a long shot.

A second thing just occurred to me, charge, try, and punish wrong doing (Biden, Clinton, Pelosi, Comey, and any Republicans as well).  Lopsided justice will certainly not get us there.

Brilliant synopsis Skin. 

Question for you; do you or do you not see an issue with poll observers being restricted or refused access to due their duly appointed jobs? It’s been in the media. All reported issues have been in heavy Democrat districts, there have been no reports of any issues in Republican districts.

How do you account for the reported issues out of all the districts controlled by the Democrats.

I hope your answer will not be “because Republicans are poor losers” or that Republicans are just trying to discredit the election.

[The emperor has no clothes]

(I've got to break the quote buildup every once in awhile) I agree with you on some points. And some.....not so much. He told the truth about Trump. If you choose to view that as excoriation, then so be it. Trump is not a QAnon advocate ?   He freaking retweets these nutjobs all the time ! He endorsed the QAnon Congressional candidate ! He's an advocate alright. When have I ever said the Democrats are pristine and without fault ? Believe me, they have mucho fault ! As to the author not "excoriating" the other side. Maybe he should have. Maybe that would have got more people to follow his thesis. I'm not a good writer, and can't really judge the value of that.

Maybe my thesis will be more palatable to you. This is where we find ourselves now. Each side views the other as the enemy. Each side of these warring factions has a different set of "facts". Each warring faction doesn't even want to understand the other faction, they just want to "kill" them. (Mostly rhetorically) Trump won 4 years ago. It was heartbreaking for me, and many others. Biden looks about to win now. It will be equally heartbreaking for you, and many others. Let's get on with it ! Stop the count ? Give me a freaking break ! Widespread voting fraud ? There are 70 million people out there who voted for Trump. If they or anyone else has any knowledge of fraud, bring it to the authorities.

We have got to find a way to not be enemies !

[Willow]

... He told the truth about Trump.
...

And expressing agreement with that bullshit is precisely why the country is and will continue to be deeply divided.   

[The emperor has no clothes]

What do we do now ? We have got to figure out a way to be 1 nation again.

One thing comes to mind that would help: STOP THE F-ING ELECTION FRAUD! 

The Democrats can't win an honest, fair election, so they cheat.  This is not over by a long shot.

A second thing just occurred to me, charge, try, and punish wrong doing (Biden, Clinton, Pelosi, Comey, and any Republicans as well).  Lopsided justice will certainly not get us there.

Brilliant synopsis Skin. 

Question for you; do you or do you not see an issue with poll observers being restricted or refused access to due their duly appointed jobs? It’s been in the media. All reported issues have been in heavy Democrat districts, there have been no reports of any issues in Republican districts.

How do you account for the reported issues out of all the districts controlled by the Democrats.

I hope your answer will not be “because Republicans are poor losers” or that Republicans are just trying to discredit the election.

Reports of poll watcher access has been brought up. The Republicans brought it to court saying they were denied access. Under the oath they were forced to admit they had 14 watchers there. The only action that has been taken as far as watchers go, has been to close the distance from 10' to 6'. If there are other actions that I'm not aware of, I'd like to hear them. I don't profress to know of every instance.

[The emperor has no clothes]

... He told the truth about Trump.
...

And expressing agreement with that bullshit is precisely why the country is and will continue to be deeply divided.   

No, I'm afraid it's following in lockstep with an Autocrat that will be our undoing.

[f6gal]

(I've got to break the quote buildup every once in awhile) I agree with you on some points. And some.....not so much. He told the truth about Trump. If you choose to view that as excoriation, then so be it. Trump is not a QAnon advocate ?   He freaking retweets these nutjobs all the time ! He endorsed the QAnon Congressional candidate ! He's an advocate alright. When have I ever said the Democrats are pristine and without fault ? Believe me, they have mucho fault ! As to the author not "excoriating" the other side. Maybe he should have. Maybe that would have got more people to follow his thesis. I'm not a good writer, and can't really judge the value of that.

Maybe my thesis will be more palatable to you. This is where we find ourselves now. Each side views the other as the enemy. Each side of these warring factions has a different set of "facts". Each warring faction doesn't even want to understand the other faction, they just want to "kill" them. (Mostly rhetorically) Trump won 4 years ago. It was heartbreaking for me, and many others. Biden looks about to win now. It will be equally heartbreaking for you, and many others. Let's get on with it ! Stop the count ? Give me a freaking break ! Widespread voting fraud ? There are 70 million people out there who voted for Trump. If they or anyone else has any knowledge of fraud, bring it to the authorities.

We have got to find a way to not be enemies !

"Tens of millions of Americans love MAGA more than they love democracy."  

If you honestly believe this statement, then there's not much more to be said.  It's what you believe about half of your fellow Americans .  How can we reconcile, if that's what you believe?

Even if you believe everything in the article, I'm still dumbfounded that you can't recognize it as partisan.

[f6john]

"There’s no escaping who we Americans have become: This is the election’s meaning. We are stuck with one another, seeing no way out and no apparent way through, sinking deeper into a state of mutual incomprehension and loathing. The possible exits—gradual de-escalation, majority breakthrough, clean separation, civil war—are either unlikely or unthinkable. We have to live and govern ourselves together, but we still don’t know how. Winning in this state becomes a chimera. Whoever takes the presidency, all Americans will remain the losers."

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/11/theres-no-escaping-who-we-have-become/616992/

I agree with the title and sub-title of the article.  The rest of it was partisan bullshit.

Interesting. I saw it as anti-partisan. For me, the gist of the article was "we don't understand each other". Nor do we seem to want to try. I admit to being just as guilty. I never imagined Trump would derive more support than he did in 2016. Obviously I was wrong. But, here we are. What do we do now ? We have got to figure out a way to be 1 nation again.

Focusing on your last sentence. Why was that not your sentiment for the last 4 years? How is it now, that we all just need to get along? I think maybe you need to go back and read your own input over the past 4 years. The only satisfaction I will get out of the outcome of this election is that all of us including you will have to live with the consequences.

[The emperor has no clothes]

(I've got to break the quote buildup every once in awhile) I agree with you on some points. And some.....not so much. He told the truth about Trump. If you choose to view that as excoriation, then so be it. Trump is not a QAnon advocate ?   He freaking retweets these nutjobs all the time ! He endorsed the QAnon Congressional candidate ! He's an advocate alright. When have I ever said the Democrats are pristine and without fault ? Believe me, they have mucho fault ! As to the author not "excoriating" the other side. Maybe he should have. Maybe that would have got more people to follow his thesis. I'm not a good writer, and can't really judge the value of that.

Maybe my thesis will be more palatable to you. This is where we find ourselves now. Each side views the other as the enemy. Each side of these warring factions has a different set of "facts". Each warring faction doesn't even want to understand the other faction, they just want to "kill" them. (Mostly rhetorically) Trump won 4 years ago. It was heartbreaking for me, and many others. Biden looks about to win now. It will be equally heartbreaking for you, and many others. Let's get on with it ! Stop the count ? Give me a freaking break ! Widespread voting fraud ? There are 70 million people out there who voted for Trump. If they or anyone else has any knowledge of fraud, bring it to the authorities.

We have got to find a way to not be enemies !

"Tens of millions of Americans love MAGA more than they love democracy." 

If you honestly believe this statement, then there's not much more to be said.  It's what you believe about half of your fellow Americans.  How can we reconcile, if that's what you believe?

Even if you believe everything in the article, I'm still dumbfounded that you can't recognize it as partisan.

1) I do believe many value "MAGA" over democracy. As to if it's hundreds, thousands, or 10's of millions, I don't know. (And probably don't want to know) There are many who value the power more than the country. Many on the left also. Do I think that about 1/2 our country ? No, not even both sides put together. But there are many. As to the article being partisan. No I don't. Yes, he said mean things about Trump, about QAnon. Yes, he probably should have said more mean things about the left. But to me the gist of the article was about where we stand now as a country.

[The emperor has no clothes]

"There’s no escaping who we Americans have become: This is the election’s meaning. We are stuck with one another, seeing no way out and no apparent way through, sinking deeper into a state of mutual incomprehension and loathing. The possible exits—gradual de-escalation, majority breakthrough, clean separation, civil war—are either unlikely or unthinkable. We have to live and govern ourselves together, but we still don’t know how. Winning in this state becomes a chimera. Whoever takes the presidency, all Americans will remain the losers."

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/11/theres-no-escaping-who-we-have-become/616992/

I agree with the title and sub-title of the article.  The rest of it was partisan bullshit.

Interesting. I saw it as anti-partisan. For me, the gist of the article was "we don't understand each other". Nor do we seem to want to try. I admit to being just as guilty. I never imagined Trump would derive more support than he did in 2016. Obviously I was wrong. But, here we are. What do we do now ? We have got to figure out a way to be 1 nation again.

Focusing on your last sentence. Why was that not your sentiment for the last 4 years? How is it now, that we all just need to get along? I think maybe you need to go back and read your own input over the past 4 years. The only satisfaction I will get out of the outcome of this election is that all of us including you will have to live with the consequences.

I'm quite comfortable with the consequences vs. the consequences of 4 more years.

[Rams]

Any thing I might say would probably be taken as inflammatory so I'll only say this, many things have been learned by both sides of the aisle and we (both) are beginning to understand how differently we see the US and interpret the Constitution. 

Let us hope the dark side doesn't push to the point of making Thomas Jefferson correct again.


Rams

[The emperor has no clothes]

Any thing I might say would probably be taken as inflammatory so I'll only say this, many things have been learned by both sides of the aisle and we (both) are beginning to understand how differently we see the US and interpret the Constitution. 

Let us hope the dark side doesn't push to the point of making Thomas Jefferson correct again.


Rams

Let us hope