Oil Testing

[98valk]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-yt5a1cWd4

Will Annual Oil Change Damage Your Car? Let's find out!

Rotella vs Delo

also does wear test showing an oil that is SN rated has more wear then a non SN rated oil.

tests show people change their modern designed oil Way too often.

Enjoy.

[luftkoph]

Now look what you’re starting 

[f-Stop]

I drove Dodges (a '98 bought in '97 and an '07 bought in '07) with the Cummins in 'em for 22 years and only used the Delo. These trucks were used for towing, so I changed the oil and filter every 5000 miles as per the owner's manual.  Even though this video says the Rotela is a better oil, my trucks ran strong for ～190,000 miles each and never burned an ounce of oil. 

So, given that...how many more miles would I have had to go before noticing the deficiencies of the Delo oil?  50,000?  75,000?

All in all it's neither here nor there...and what does this have to do with Valkyries or even motorcycles anyway?

 

[98valk]

because many use diesel oil for their valkyries esp the rotella T6.
I've posted before that the CK-4 diesel oils with also an SN rating such as Delo, have lower zinc and phosphorus that our engines need per the original 1988 engine design and oil requirements including the requirements for the valkyrie engines. The test shows increase wear with Delo, does it matter in just the engine, No, but it does matter in a motorcycle transmission that shares the oil with the engine.
Rotella is not rated SN and has the higher zinc and phos needed to prevent wear.

[Gideon]

Now look what you’re starting 

An Oil Thread!!!

[spongebob]

Well my cousin .... went to a automotive trade school for 2 weeks...
And he said...........
And...... he also said about those spark plugs....... ...
And lastly..... about the brand of gas that you use... you should be using....

[h13man]

Well my cousin .... went to a automotive trade school for 2 weeks...
And he said...........
And...... he also said about those spark plugs....... ...
And lastly..... about the brand of gas that you use... you should be using....

Most certurnly'! 

[Jersey]

Well my cousin .... went to a automotive trade school for 2 weeks...
And he said...........
And...... he also said about those spark plugs....... ...
And lastly..... about the brand of gas that you use... you should be using....

I'll do it.  What about the blinker fluid!?

[Gideon]

You mentioned the Blinker Fluid. Don't, whatever you do, don't forget the Headlight Fluid!!!

[F6Dave]

About 2 years ago I started having the oil analyzed on some of my vehicles.  The results have been surprising.  The engine in my car has twin turbos and makes over 2 HP per cubic inch, but the used oil contains very low levels of wear material.  This is even more surprising since my change intervals are around 8,000 miles.

OTOH, my GL-1800 (F6B) makes less than 1 HP per cubic inch, and I change the oil about every 5,000 miles.  Yet the used oil contains considerably more wear material.  Apparently my results are typical and no cause for concern, but I'm still surprised and a bit disappointed in the Honda.  I haven't tested the Valkyrie oil yet but will at the next oil change.

When I was looking at the Blackstone website before sending in a sample last spring I stumbled on to an interesting newsletter article.  It showed average wear rates for the 10 most popular oils used in 4 engine types.  The wear rates were calculated from the presence of aluminum, iron, chromium, copper, and lead in used oil samples.  They compiled this from thousands of customer oil analyses in their database.

The results were completely inconclusive.  No brand showed any meaningful advantage over another.  In cases where a brand appeared to have a slight advantage in reducing wear in one engine type, it showed more wear in another.  It looks like the oil you choose makes very little difference, if any.

The newsletter is here:  https://www.blackstone-labs.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/Aug-17-ENG.pdf

[Ken aka Oil Burner]

Don't be too disappointed in the Honda. It's not likely due to the HP per CI of the engines in your vehicles. The motorcycle has shared oil with the engine and transmission. This is highly likely to cause some level of multiple types of metal to be present in your F6B's oil. Gears, shift forks, bushings, bearings, etc. will all wear a bit in the gearbox, and that type of wear isn't present in most automobile engines.

As a matter of fact, I have a customer with a Cummins Diesel in a Dodge Ram that has a bypass filter system installed. He currently has about 45K on the oil in his engine, tested regularly, and deemed fit to continue service. He tows an enclosed landscape trailer daily. It's no highway queen; it's a work truck. I'd custom build some sort of system for the Valkyrie, but there's no point really. A motorcycle with a shared sump system shears the oil due to the heavy contact points in the transmission gears. I'd still have to change the oil due to that, even though it would likely be free of contaminants.

[98valk]

About 2 years ago I started having the oil analyzed on some of my vehicles.  The results have been surprising.  The engine in my car has twin turbos and makes over 2 HP per cubic inch, but the used oil contains very low levels of wear material.  This is even more surprising since my change intervals are around 8,000 miles.

OTOH, my GL-1800 (F6B) makes less than 1 HP per cubic inch, and I change the oil about every 5,000 miles.  Yet the used oil contains considerably more wear material.  Apparently my results are typical and no cause for concern, but I'm still surprised and a bit disappointed in the Honda.  I haven't tested the Valkyrie oil yet but will at the next oil change.

When I was looking at the Blackstone website before sending in a sample last spring I stumbled on to an interesting newsletter article.  It showed average wear rates for the 10 most popular oils used in 4 engine types.  The wear rates were calculated from the presence of aluminum, iron, chromium, copper, and lead in used oil samples.  They compiled this from thousands of customer oil analyses in their database.

The results were completely inconclusive.  No brand showed any meaningful advantage over another.  In cases where a brand appeared to have a slight advantage in reducing wear in one engine type, it showed more wear in another.  It looks like the oil you choose makes very little difference, if any.

The newsletter is here:  https://www.blackstone-labs.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/Aug-17-ENG.pdf

some UOA here, mine and Disco

http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,17708.0.html

[Ken aka Oil Burner]

Also, I forgot to include the clutch system on the bike. It also lives in the engine oil of a shared sump bike, so wear on clutch discs, separator plates, etc will also impart material into the oil. Either way, good oil in a Honda anything is likely to be A-OK. Blackstone, as well as other testing labs, know that motorcycles have different metals in their oil normally, so that's why they don't get alarmed when they see it. Use a good oil and a good filter and you'll be fine.

[F6Dave]

Don't be too disappointed in the Honda. It's not likely due to the HP per CI of the engines in your vehicles. The motorcycle has shared oil with the engine and transmission. This is highly likely to cause some level of multiple types of metal to be present in your F6B's oil. Gears, shift forks, bushings, bearings, etc. will all wear a bit in the gearbox, and that type of wear isn't present in most automobile engines.

As a matter of fact, I have a customer with a Cummins Diesel in a Dodge Ram that has a bypass filter system installed. He currently has about 45K on the oil in his engine, tested regularly, and deemed fit to continue service. He tows an enclosed landscape trailer daily. It's no highway queen; it's a work truck. I'd custom build some sort of system for the Valkyrie, but there's no point really. A motorcycle with a shared sump system shears the oil due to the heavy contact points in the transmission gears. I'd still have to change the oil due to that, even though it would likely be free of contaminants.

Actually I'm not very disappointed with my F6B, since the wear levels are typical for GL-1800s.  They are also similar to the better results for GL-1500s posted on this site.  However I am pleasantly surprised that the Ford EcoBoost 2.7 liter V6, which generates 325 HP and 380 ft/lbs of torque, has such low levels of wear metals.  2 HP per cubic inch is on the high end for a passenger vehicle, and I thought there'd be a price to pay in engine longevity.  So far that doesn't seem to be the case.

[98valk]

Don't be too disappointed in the Honda. It's not likely due to the HP per CI of the engines in your vehicles. The motorcycle has shared oil with the engine and transmission. This is highly likely to cause some level of multiple types of metal to be present in your F6B's oil. Gears, shift forks, bushings, bearings, etc. will all wear a bit in the gearbox, and that type of wear isn't present in most automobile engines.

As a matter of fact, I have a customer with a Cummins Diesel in a Dodge Ram that has a bypass filter system installed. He currently has about 45K on the oil in his engine, tested regularly, and deemed fit to continue service. He tows an enclosed landscape trailer daily. It's no highway queen; it's a work truck. I'd custom build some sort of system for the Valkyrie, but there's no point really. A motorcycle with a shared sump system shears the oil due to the heavy contact points in the transmission gears. I'd still have to change the oil due to that, even though it would likely be free of contaminants.

Actually I'm not very disappointed with my F6B, since the wear levels are typical for GL-1800s.  They are also similar to the better results for GL-1500s posted on this site.  However I am pleasantly surprised that the Ford EcoBoost 2.7 liter V6, which generates 325 HP and 380 ft/lbs of torque, has such low levels of wear metals.  2 HP per cubic inch is on the high end for a passenger vehicle, and I thought there'd be a price to pay in engine longevity.  So far that doesn't seem to be the case.

research modern crankshaft bearings. they have very low wear and can handle higher loads than the older style tri-metal bearings. one of the reasons thinner oils can be used.

[Valker]

The use of thinner oils is due more to bearing clearances/tolerances than anything else.

[Ken aka Oil Burner]

Multiple reasons for lighter viscosity oils in newer engines. Probably the biggest reason is CAFE standards. Fluid friction is parasitic drag, which lowers fuel economy. Same reason for multiplex communication systems in automobiles; less (and thinner) wiring = less weight. Less weight = better fuel economy. Additionally, 20w50 doesn't make it through small oil channels in complex variable valve timing gears when it's 30 degrees out too readily either. Bearings, like many things, have improved over the years as newer substances are found and new methods to apply them are developed. Clearances are tighter on some of the newer engines than they were 30 years ago. Some due to bearings, and some of it is due to much tighter control over engine operating temperature ranges.

Sticking with an engine manufacturer's oil weight recommendation is likely your best route. Buying their oil isn't necessarily helping or hurting you. Honda doesn't make their own oil. Neither does Toyota, Ford, GM, or just about every other manufacturer out there. They sub it out to an oil company. Buy what makes you warm and fuzzy, and make sure you argue about it on the internet. Every dead horse needs a good arse kicking now and again.

[Jess from VA]

I'll tell you what.  When you don't use much cooking oil, and the bottle under your sink just sits there for a decade or two, when you finally do use some, it makes the food taste pretty funky.

I could tell you what brand and type it is (and if it had an expiration date), but the label fell off years ago.  It's yellow.   

I hate throwing away food, but decided it's time for some new cooking oil. 

[98valk]

The use of thinner oils is due more to bearing clearances/tolerances than anything else.

the new modern bearings allowed that to happen.

[F6Dave]

Less weight = better fuel economy.

True, but vehicles today have become real pigs, weight-wise.  Things like AWD and structural reinforcements for better safety have added loads of weight.  3,000 pounds is considered 'light' these days, and even small CUVs weigh more.  I remember when truly lightweight cars like a Lotus Elan weighed about half of that!  In spite of all that weight, most new vehicles are engineered so well that they still get amazing fuel mileage, along with HP that was unheard of even a decade ago.