Senate unexpectedly approves legislation to make daylight-saving time permanent

[Rams]

Senate unexpectedly approves legislation to make daylight-saving time permanent
https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/senate-unexpectedly-approves-legislation-to-abolish-daylight-saving-time/ar-AAV6ftA?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531

The Senate passed a bill to move the US to permanent daylight-saving time.
Since 1966, most Americans have been used to "springing forward" to begin DST in March.
The Sunshine Protection Act of 2021 would end the biannual ritual of changing clocks.
The walls might be closing on the US's twice-a-year ritual of changing clocks.

The US Senate unexpectedly passed the Sunshine Protection Act of 2021, a bipartisan bill to move the US to permanent daylight-saving time, on Tuesday afternoon, two days after most of the country "sprang forward" to begin daylight-saving time.

The chamber quickly approved the bill through unanimous consent, which allows legislation to pass the Senate with a simple voice vote if no senator objects.

The legislation heads next to the House of Representatives, and if it's passed by that chamber, it'll go to President Joe Biden's desk. Axios reported on Tuesday that GOP Rep. Vern Buchanan of Florida was leading the effort to secure swift passage of the measure through the lower chamber.

"The good news is that we can get this passed. We don't have to keep doing this stupidity anymore. Why we would enshrine this in our laws and keep it for so long is beyond me," Sen. Marco Rubio of Florida, one of the bill's sponsors, said on the Senate floor. "Hopefully, this is the year that this gets done. And pardon the pun, but this is an idea whose time has come."

Rubio added that an amendment to the bill would delay its implementation until November 2023 to give the airline and travel industries, which operate on strict timetables, sufficient leeway to prepare for the change.

Various thinkers proposed versions of daylight saving in the 19th and early 20th century, and the US and several European countries introduced daylight-saving time as a wartime energy-conservation measure during World War I.

After the US repealed national daylight saving in 1919, some states kept observing daylight-saving time, while others did not for decades, which created a confusing patchwork of time zones across the country.

The Uniform Time Act, passed by Congress in 1966, set daylight-saving time to begin and end at the same time each year throughout the country.

The US did briefly try observing permanent daylight-saving time in the early 1970s. But the experiment, which began in December 1973 in the last months of President Richard Nixon's presidency, ended less than a year later after numerous safety complaints and concerns about children having to walk to school in the dark.

Since Congress last amended the Uniform Time Act in 2005, Americans "spring forward" to begin daylight-saving time at 3 a.m. ET on the second Sunday in March, trading an hour of sleep for more daylight at the end of the day, and "fall back" to go to standard time at 2 a.m. ET on the first Sunday in November.

In addition to the hassle of changing clocks twice a year, the energy-saving benefits of daylight-saving time are negligible to none.

Some studies have additionally linked the loss of an hour of sleep that comes with the beginning of daylight-saving time to negative health effects, such as increases in heart attacks, car accidents, and workplace injuries.

Some states that receive a lot of sunlight, like Hawaii and most of Arizona, don't recognize daylight-saving time at all because they prefer to have cooler temperatures and more shade at the end of the day, not more light.

The bill would still allow those states to be exempt from permanent daylight-saving time and stay on permanent standard time.

All I can say is, it's about time this crap ended, don't care which way it goes but do it and leave it alone.

Rams

[Warlock]

Had seen this before. Only a white man can cut 1" off the top of a blanket and sew it to the bottom and thinks he has increased the length of the blanket. To me it was always stupid DLS. Put it to regular time and leave it along. JMO
David

[hubcapsc]

Had seen this before. Only a white man can cut 1" off the top of a blanket and sew it to the bottom and thinks he has increased the length of the blanket. To me it was always stupid DLS. Put it to regular time and leave it along. JMO
David

I like cutting 1" off the part of the day before work and sewing it onto the part of the day
after work, though  ...

-Mike

[..]

Split the difference.

30 minutes.

[Moonshot_1]

But this means it will remain daytime an hour longer leading to more global warming and climate change.
We are going to have to increase taxes to subsidize even more of the EV industry.

This will be a big boost for the solar industry as the extra daylight will drastically improve the efficiency of the solar industry.

There will be less energy costs all around as we will less night time light usage.

 

[The emperor has no clothes]

The best thing about Arizona is never having to change the time.

The worst thing about Arizona is having to figure out what time it is in other parts of the country.

[carolinarider09]

Had seen this before. Only a white man can cut 1" off the top of a blanket and sew it to the bottom and thinks he has increased the length of the blanket. To me it was always stupid DLS. Put it to regular time and leave it along. JMO
David

 

[carolinarider09]

Here is the real funny part, its all smoke and mirrors.  It's balderdash.  You want more sunlight after work, go to work earlier. Simple.  Don't change the "science".  Noon is NOON!

 The sun comes up, the sun goes down.  during that process, at some time, the sun is directly overhead.  That is sometimes called "Hi Noon" (not always though it turns out).   

Next, we added some "time" to this process.   We established a day, sunrise to sunrise, as having 24 hours. and we gave each hour 60 minutes and each minute we gave 60 seconds. 

Next we set the time of high noon (sun directly overhead) as halfway through the 24 hour period.  So, high noon was now officially noon and set at 1200 (using the 24 hour clock to make it easier for some). 

Back in the day, people worked, generally from sun up to sun down.  Why you ask?   Because they needed sunlight to work.  So, over time this has shifted to something we will call normal working hours. 

Back in the day, you stopped work when you were too tired to keep going or it got dark (hard to work without light).  That was days end. 

As we started working inside where the availablity of sunlight did not matter and, for some reason, we shifted to starting work at time "A" and ending some set time later (sometimes 10 hours, then 9 hours and then 8 hours).  So today we have notion of working "Nine to Five".   

Since the number of hours of daylight over a specific part of the earth changes as the earth rotates around the sun (the earth is tilted on its rotational axis) summers have more sunlight hours up north than down south  and vice versa).   

Therefore if you get home at 5:30 PM (1730) in the winter in the northern hemisphere you have little daylight left wheel at home.  In the summer you have more daylight. 

Now time use to be important to the overall process of life.  Knowing that noon (1200 hours)  was at a point when the sun was highest in the sky was important to knowing how much time you had left in the day. 

Today, time is just a number (unless you want to do some navigation by the stars or using the sun for location).   

The whole point of this "monologue" is to say, that today time is relative.   Changing high noon to 1300 is about as dumb as you can get. Shoot, why not change high noon to 1900 hours real time...

If you want more "sunlight" hours, go to work earlier.   Don't change the clocks so that they no longer mean anything. 

Also, if you are an amateur astronomer as I am, then changing the time so that midnight is now 0100 the next day, makes it hard for me, when working, to get anytime outside to get pictures like this. 





The link below shows support for getting up and working with the sun, not changing the time to make you get up.

https://www.wusa9.com/article/weather/why-do-we-still-have-daylight-saving-time-history-daylight-savings-time/65-9caf6f14-eabc-4e41-821a-ab5f7593022b

And some interesting history here.

https://www.dictionary.com/e/noon/


Note:   12 hours of daylight and 12 hours of darkness only exists on the days of the Equinoxes which is twice a year.

[Serk]

Perfect analogy for my view of 99% of what government does:

The one thing the government could do on this issue, that the vast majority of folks would support and approve of them doing, is to undo what the government previously did.

[luftkoph]

Sunshine protection act, only Congress could come up with such a dumb name, I guess the terrorists are after the sunshine, probably going to have to have another branch of homeland security administer the safety of the sunshine.

[Jess from VA]

Perfect analogy for my view of 99% of what government does:

The one thing the government could do on this issue, that the vast majority of folks would support and approve of them doing, is to undo what the government previously did.

Absolutely agree.  

It makes no difference to me now retired, but for many working years, it simply screwed up my job performance for about a week to 10 days twice a year.  Many of those years I worked 10hr days and already got up with the birds.  Twice a year I showed up to work tired and groggy (and useless), or got groggy at the end of a too long day (and fell asleep on the metro train going home, and missed my connection, and rode it way out to the end of the line in Maryland somewhere, adding another hour to my day)  

I don't give a crap what time it is, just leave it alone and don't move it around.

However, I have been trying to think of any other legislation that could get bipartisan support unanimously these days.  This may be it.  

And one small piece of common sense does not (even begin to) make up for an administration of complete disaster.

Though it's nice to get any kind of good news.  Almost a miracle.  

[Serk]

Not just is DST change annoying, it's estimated to lead to 28 deaths a year.... (Plus more wrecks, etc that don't lead to death.)

Time to end this silliness!

https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/daylight-saving-time-switch-linked-to-28-fatal-car-accidents-in-u-s-study-says

[hubcapsc]

You want more sunlight after work, go to work earlier.

People at the nukular plant come in whenever they want?

-Mike

[scooperhsd]

I would vote for it to permanently be DST (I get up at 0700 most days, and the extra hour in the evening is nice).

[MAD6Gun]

The best thing about Arizona is never having to change the time.

The worst thing about Arizona is having to figure out what time it is in other parts of the country.

 That's the way it used to be here in Indiana but some years ago our Governor Daniels decided it was time for us to go back on DST. His reason. Because businesses don't know what time it is in Indiana when they call. Ok? As a result most of the state is on eastern time but there are 12 western counties in the state that are on central time. Calling a company in Fort Wayne (easter zone) and then call one in Valparaiso (central zone) could result in not getting ahold of anybody.  So what did that prove? 13 states have two different time zones. So unless you know a states geography how do you know what time it's in a particular city you're calling?

[carolinarider09]

You want more sunlight after work, go to work earlier.

People at the nukular plant come in whenever they want?

-Mike

For the record, (and I think this is more common among commercial nuclear power plants than not) working hours were as follows.

Two daily 12 hour shifts (generally 0700 - 1900 and 1900 - 0700). The reason, fewer shift changes minimized the issues with having to pass on plant status which minimizes potential errors.

These 12 hour shifts were for operations and maintenance personnel.   Since these times were fixed, they would not be able to be changed.  And given the time, Daylight Savings Time would not be a real issue.  Also, for these workers, they only worked four (4) days out of seven and rotated and also had one week of training every sixth week, 0700 to 1630  (but this is based on memory since I have not been on site for several years).

Office workers, in general those in engineering, warehousing, training, records and other support services (not involved in the day to day operations of the plant) had the ability to change their working hours.  This proviso required that you had to be at work between 0800 to 1600 each day of the week.   Each work day was a nine (9) hours work day with Friday's being an eight ( hour work day.  This allowed for having every other Friday off.

We were allowed a 30 minute break for lunch.  I choose to work 0700 - 1630.  

Therefore, for me, when you have Daylight Savings Time start (as of now in the first of March) I had to drive to work in the dead of the night (0630).  During that time wild animals are more prevalent on the rural roadways I traveled to work on.  This increases the danger of accidents.  

If I wished to avoid some of that, I could have changed my arrival time to 0800.  Meaning I would have to leave home at 0730 to arrive on time.  With Daylight Saving Time starting in early March, this means, even if I wanted to change my working hours, I would be driving to work in the dawn, still a dangerous time for wildlife.  

And yes the reverse is true regarding traveling home without Daylight Savings Time.  So, its a dumb move since, depending on your working hours, its either or and for some, both.  

The nine hour working day made it a little difficult to avoid driving/riding in twilight (dawn or dusk) either going or coming.

If you are an office worked (you know doing 9 to 5) you should be able to easily change your working hours to accommodate issues with dawn and dusk.  

Farmers, ranchers, construction workers don't get any benefit from DST since its hard to do some of their work in the dark.   DST only benefits those I will call "white collar" folks.  

Some industries, such as the hospitality industry, have to also work fixed shifts to minimize the impact of changing their hours during peak arrival and departure times for their clients.  

Same is true for some restaurant and fast food workers, their hours are fixed by the requirements to serve their customers.

However, if the customers working hours change, so can their working hours.  

In Summary, why change what "noon" means and defy physics.  

Just change the working hours from 9 to 5 to 8 to 4.  And either leave it that way or make the change in working hours seasonal, leave the clocks alone.   

[Crackerborn]

My days start at 5am and ends when the job is complete, however long it takes. I thought when I semi-retired that i could relax more. Nope, still wake up every morning at 4:30. The only difference? Now I fill the bird feeders and bird bath in the morning before I start the day instead of when i get home. I am pretty sure the dependent birds and by extension, squirrels, don't care what time we silly humans think it is.

[h13man]

The issue is if the states are allowed choice I'm probably screwed as the promise to UPS building their hub in Indy, Mitch The Bitch Daniels promised to do the changing of the time and here we are today. The dogs stay on time that's for sure.  

[0leman]

Being retired, it makes no difference whether we stay with normal time of DST.   Just make the decision and quit changing time.

Only problems I see is that a lot of the kids in the northern part of the country will be standing in the dark waiting for a bus for more of the year. 

There won't be any energy savings either way.   At least that is the last thing I heard on an actual look at the normal vs DST. 

[RP#62]

The best thing about Arizona is never having to change the time.

The worst thing about Arizona is having to figure out what time it is in other parts of the country.

 That's the way it used to be here in Indiana but some years ago our Governor Daniels decided it was time for us to go back on DST. His reason. Because businesses don't know what time it is in Indiana when they call. Ok? As a result most of the state is on eastern time but there are 12 western counties in the state that are on central time. Calling a company in Fort Wayne (easter zone) and then call one in Valparaiso (central zone) could result in not getting ahold of anybody.  So what did that prove? 13 states have two different time zones. So unless you know a states geography how do you know what time it's in a particular city you're calling?

Being in AZ, all I recall about it when I was working was that those AH's I dealt with back east left me alone an hour earlier during parts of the year.

-RP

[old2soon]

      WE-collective-already KNOW if da gubmint involved "they" gonna 100% screw it up. Done deal. Far as the clock changing thing twice a year-fer craps sake Dump it already!  I did a LOT of running coast to coast in a big truck and long azz days on the Yorktown. Learned a Long time ago to adapt. Now I Am older and crankier. gubmint appear to NOT be able to adopt the K I S S theory-keep it simple stupid.  Quivk question for the puter types. Will the puters and smart phones Know to not change after this "law" is passed?  RIDE SAFE.

[carolinarider09]

    Will the puters and smart phones Know to not change after this "law" is passed?  RIDE SAFE.

No they won't know.  When they changed the start and end dates (2005) lots of stuff had to be updated.  Anything that automatically does a daylight savings time change (computer, thermostat, HVAC, security system, etc. etc.).   Just one more fun thing to have happen.

By the way, the last time it was changed was to conserve energy.   Wonder how that will work out if we keep it this way forever. 

[carolinarider09]

If this becomes the "Law of the Land" here is what you can expect in South Carolina in 2022

December 1, 2022

Twilight Start -  7:40:39 AM
Sunrise -          8:05:31 AM

Sunset -           6:24:35 PM
Twilight End -    6:49:33 PM

December 31, 2022

Twilight Start -  7:57:44 AM
Sunrise -          8:22:57 AM

Sunset -           6:35:22 PM
Twilight End -    7:00:35 PM


Just for a reference today is

Today March 16, 2022

Twilight Start -  7:10:13 AM
Sunrise -          7:33:07 AM

Sunset -           7:35:56 PM
Twilight End -    7:58:50 PM

Now lets say you have an eight ( hour a day job and you get an hour for lunch.   The job is five days a week (40 hour work week).   The expected starting time for the average office worker is what????  Lets say its 8:00 AM.   Eight ( hours plus one hour for lunch means you get to leave work at around 5:00 PM.   Lets say you have a 30 minute drive to and from work (unlikely in any place other than a small city but.....  

You have to leave home at 7:30 AM and you will get home around 5:30 PM.  You have to drive to work in almost total darkness maybe have a little light when you get there.  

When you leave work at 5:00 PM you will have an hour and one half of twilight.  

Gee is that not really special to get to drive to work in total darkness and have that little extra in the evening.  

You can do the math for December 31st, AKA New Years Eve.  

Without Daylight savings time in effect you would get home around sunset, just at the start of twilight.  Actually a nice time of the day.  

[Jess from VA]

My older nightstand led clock radio automatically changes to the OLD DST (before the most recent change).

I almost never look at it anyway. 

In 12 years of retirement, the alarm has only gone off about 3 times anyway (all for early ride meetups).   

[Mooskee]

You want more sunlight after work, go to work earlier.

People at the nukular plant come in whenever they want?

-Mike

I worked at "nukular" plants for 42 years, and 4 years in the US Navy. We worked rotating shifts. Starting at all kinds of hours. In spite of Einstein's fear of  relatives, and the infernal equinox, we had to endeavor to preserve.
Changing to and from dst, just made filling out timeshares a bigger PITA

[Serk]

(For the humor impaired the Babylon Bee is technically parody... Or prophetic, it's hard to tell some times.)

"AOC To Vote Against Making Daylight Savings Permanent, Saying Americans Consume Too Much Sunlight Already"

"WASHINGTON, D.C—The Senate has passed legislation that would make daylight savings time permanent. This decision has garnered bipartisan support but has run into a slight hiccup as congresswoman AOC has objected, stating we must continue to set our clocks twice a year.

"I for one am in favor of saving sunshine, not letting it go to waste, by selfishly consuming it all the time." said congresswoman AOC. "Setting our clocks twice a year is a small price to pay to ensure we never run out of our sunshine supply.""

https://babylonbee.com/news/aoc-votes-to-keep-daylight-savings-citing-concern-about-what-if-we-run-out

[Rams]

 K I S S theory-keep it simple stupid.  Quivk question for the puter types. Will the puters and smart phones Know to not change after this "law" is passed?  RIDE SAFE.

The system will change due to whatever the programing tells it to do.   I would say that if the law is passed, then the programing will be changed.
Just my opinion, I'm no way qualified to factually state anything about computers or programing.

Rams

[Serk]

 K I S S theory-keep it simple stupid.  Quivk question for the puter types. Will the puters and smart phones Know to not change after this "law" is passed?  RIDE SAFE.

The system will change due to whatever the programing tells it to do.   I would say that if the law is passed, then the programing will be changed.
Just my opinion, I'm no way qualified to factually state anything about computers or programing.

Rams

Sorry just saw this query. Relatively modern systems will update with regular system updates (Computers, tablets, phones, etc.)

Embedded systems that don't get an external time source will likely need to be manually updated. Some will have an option to push an updated firmware, some will not.

But IMHO it's a short term pain we really REALLY need to go through and end this ridiculous thing once and for all...

[Jersey mike]

What about all those clock changers who will loose their jobs?

[scooperhsd]

What about all those clock changers who will loose their jobs?

Most of them (all  ?)the clock changing is a small additional duty..

[scooperhsd]

K I S S theory-keep it simple stupid.  Quivk question for the puter types. Will the puters and smart phones Know to not change after this "law" is passed?  RIDE SAFE.

The system will change due to whatever the programing tells it to do.   I would say that if the law is passed, then the programing will be changed.
Just my opinion, I'm no way qualified to factually state anything about computers or programing.

Rams

Sorry just saw this query. Relatively modern systems will update with regular system updates (Computers, tablets, phones, etc.)

Embedded systems that don't get an external time source will likely need to be manually updated. Some will have an option to push an updated firmware, some will not.

But IMHO it's a short term pain we really REALLY need to go through and end this ridiculous thing once and for all...

COmputers, networking gear, not really a big deal. MS sends out updates often enough, so do the other OS vendors. Where it starts getting tricky is like Serk said - embedded systems that do not get very many if any updates. However, this is one they SHOULD get / accept.

[Moonshot_1]

(For the humor impaired the Babylon Bee is technically parody... Or prophetic, it's hard to tell some times.)

"AOC To Vote Against Making Daylight Savings Permanent, Saying Americans Consume Too Much Sunlight Already"

"WASHINGTON, D.C—The Senate has passed legislation that would make daylight savings time permanent. This decision has garnered bipartisan support but has run into a slight hiccup as congresswoman AOC has objected, stating we must continue to set our clocks twice a year.

"I for one am in favor of saving sunshine, not letting it go to waste, by selfishly consuming it all the time." said congresswoman AOC. "Setting our clocks twice a year is a small price to pay to ensure we never run out of our sunshine supply.""

https://babylonbee.com/news/aoc-votes-to-keep-daylight-savings-citing-concern-about-what-if-we-run-out

Rumor has it that AOC knew about this vote and with that inside information bought 500k in Coppertone stock.

[HayHauler]

My clock will be right all year now, not only for 6 months!

Hay
Jimmyt

[f6gal]

Apparently, since Arizona and Hawaii don't observe DST, both are exempt from the new change.  So, in AZ, we will continue on MST, as we've always done.  Interesting.

[f6gal]

My clock will be right all year now, not only for 6 months!

Hay
Jimmyt

Or wrong all year.

[carolinarider09]

Apparently, since Arizona and Hawaii don't observe DST, both are exempt from the new change.  So, in AZ, we will continue on MST, as we've always done.  Interesting.

I did not know that.  I actually don't mind individual states making a decision but I sort of assumed that this was "universal".   

So, each state gets to decide Yes or No on DST forever.   Need to get in touch with my local state reps...

[f6gal]

Apparently, since Arizona and Hawaii don't observe DST, both are exempt from the new change.  So, in AZ, we will continue on MST, as we've always done.  Interesting.

I did not know that.  I actually don't mind individual states making a decision but I sort of assumed that this was "universal".   

So, each state gets to decide Yes or No on DST forever.   Need to get in touch with my local state reps...

No, I don't think each state gets to decide.  AZ and HI were specifically exempted in the bill, since they don't observe DST.  (That's the way I understand it anyway.)

[Warlock]

Apparently, since Arizona and Hawaii don't observe DST, both are exempt from the new change.  So, in AZ, we will continue on MST, as we've always done.  Interesting.

I did not know that.  I actually don't mind individual states making a decision but I sort of assumed that this was "universal".   

So, each state gets to decide Yes or No on DST forever.   Need to get in touch with my local state reps...

No, I don't think each state gets to decide.  AZ and HI were specifically exempted in the bill, since they don't observe DST.  (That's the way I understand it anyway.)

The smart states

[Patrick]

Typical isn't it. With all thats going on now, our congress just has to spend an inordinate amount of time and our money on DST or not.

Now they are distracted over hair cuts and about to pass laws regarding discrimination and employment over our hair do's. [ Is that [ do's] spelled correctly ? Don't know since I don't really have one ] I wonder how many bazillion this just cost us.

[Romeo]

We are on the brink of the next world war and our senate is concerned with what time it is when the sun comes up. Not surprising, I guess.