Is my petcock genuine oem?

[Knapdog]

I've been wondering for a while if my petcock is a genuine oem Honda.
The reason is the Reserve has never worked.
The bike had only 12,000 miles on it when I bought it two years ago and it's now done 18,000. I did think of desmogging and fitting a Pingel but instead replaced all the fuel and vacuum lines and fitted a new petcock cover set.
I also don't like the idea of having to delve underneath with a gloved hand to switch the Pingel off
I don't know if there are any alternative petcocks like the oem with the vacuum port. I know some have been talked about like the cbr600 (I think) but some have said it's discontinued.

I'm happy with the set up. I always turn the petcock off when I stop. I always use E5 petrol and fill the tank up over winter and add Ethanol Free additive.
So, my question, ..... how can I tell if my existing petcock is genuine? I've removed it in the past, cleaned it out etc,  but there's still no Reserve function, so I question if it's genuine.

[98valk]

some info

https://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,119537.0.html

https://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,37577.0.html

[steveB (VRCC UK)]

Fit the Pingle junk the stock tap. No need to desmog. You'll soon get used to the Pingle. Reaching for it even with winter gloves whilst moving becomes second nature. Turning off the stock tap is pointless at best, they can fail in the off position. If you're doing this to avoid hydrolock you'll need to turn off before reaching home and run her out of petrol. I would also suggest changing the float needle valves. Just had a Valk I'm working on fill number 2 cylinder with the tank off from petrol left in the fuel hoses and fuel rail (Part of my quote for work was rebuilding the carbs).

[Knapdog]

One more idea, Knapdog.  On a bike with a gravity feed fuel system, any restriction in the fuel line can limit the flow before the tank empties.  An extra fuel filter on a CB900 made my bike seem it was empty, and the reserve didn't help.  Any extra length in that new fuel hose can cause a restrictive kink.  Have a look. If the fuel flow is restricted, installing a brand new OEM valve would produce the same results.

I think I'm OK with that, thanks Pluggy. I was very careful to install the new lines the same size as the old with a good sloping "feed" and no kinks.

[Knapdog]

Well, I've tilted the tank over and I've answered my own query......



It's a genuine oem petcock.

I haven't got any closer as to why it's never had  "Reserve" function but that's never been a problem as I know when to fill up.
However, the mystery remains and if I knew how to fix it I would.

[Skinhead]

Have you checked that the indicator/control knob is installed correctly  on the petcock shaft?  It is keyed to only go on one way only, but can be installed improperly if you are determined.

[Knapdog]

Have you checked that the indicator/control knob is installed correctly  on the petcock shaft?  It is keyed to only go on one way only, but can be installed improperly if you are determined.

Good thinking, Skinhead , but it fits just right, thanks.

[Jess from VA]

The other possible reason for no reserve is the screen tube in the tank.  Reserve draws from the lowest point, and if the screen is fouled down there gas will not flow.  I think.

My bikes get remarkably similar gas mileage with only small variations for constant freeway speeds/RPMs.

I know I get about 220 miles to reserve on my Interstates (but I fill the tank sitting on the bike, and slow feed it right up to the neck, every time, if the pump will slow feed).  I reset the tripmeter at every fillup, and watch my tripmeter more than my gas gauge LED bars when I am getting low (which aren't so useful when the tank is low).

So get a handle on your usual miles to reserve.  And fill up the same way every time.  Reserve is 1.1 gallons for all bikes. 

As mentioned, the petcock is finicky, and you should feel for the slight little detent click when moving it from Off to Run to Reserve.  It must be positioned correctly.  It should be set by feel not by sight.  

Number 4.  (Interstate parts fishe)

[h13man]

I have a Pingle thus shutoff memory comes into play even double check happen's. Just a habit from olden' days.  

I believe this is the manual stock looking OEM conversion and years of fitment.

https://www.partzilla.com/product/honda/16950-MAL-602?ref=bdc4f19c62818c9a02ad12bf5aa592b29ab74713

[old2soon]

    IF possible take a couple liters of petrol with you and run it All Out on NOT reserve position and then go to reserve. I may have missed it but did you ever run the fuel tank out?? My I/S coughs farts and belches just before I NEED to go to reserve. Hope this helps! RIDE SAFE.

[Knapdog]

    IF possible take a couple liters of petrol with you and run it All Out on NOT reserve position and then go to reserve. I may have missed it but did you ever run the fuel tank out?? My I/S coughs farts and belches just before I NEED to go to reserve. Hope this helps! RIDE SAFE.

OK. I see what you're saying, however, the last time I filled up, the tank took 19 litres of petrol having done 183 miles at 44 miles per uk gallon. If there was any left in Reserve then there would only have been  around 1 litre in there assuming that the tank holds 20 litres. I believe that "Reserve" is meant to be more than this.1 litre would only have left me around 10 miles of Reserve.
I'm 6,000 miles the bike has never started to splutter, indicating time to switch over, despite getting near the end of its range.
Nevertheless I'll give your suggestion a try by running it down and then switching over to Reserve but making sure I have some spare fuel.

[Knapdog]

Fit the Pingle junk the stock tap. No need to desmog. You'll soon get used to the Pingle. Reaching for it even with winter gloves whilst moving becomes second nature. Turning off the stock tap is pointless at best, they can fail in the off position. If you're doing this to avoid hydrolock you'll need to turn off before reaching home and run her out of petrol. I would also suggest changing the float needle valves. Just had a Valk I'm working on fill number 2 cylinder with the tank off from petrol left in the fuel hoses and fuel rail (Part of my quote for work was rebuilding the carbs).

Hi Steve, if you remember it was your goodself  who bought my Pingel on ebay when I decided not to go ahead with the desmog.
Do they make a Pingel with a vacuum "port" to keep my present set up or can I only get one that takes the fuel line alone? If the latter, what do I do with the exposed end at #6?
Remember I shan't be desmogging.

[Willow]

... the last time I filled up, the tank took 19 litres of petrol having done 183 miles at 44 miles per uk gallon. If there was any left in Reserve then there would only have been  around 1 litre in there assuming that the tank holds 20 litres. I believe that "Reserve" is meant to be more than this.1 litre would only have left me around 10 miles of Reserve.
...  

That's empty including what should be reserve.

Reserve on the OEM petcock is determined by a (brass?) tube that leads up from the petcock.  If that tube is broken off or removed then the fuel will always flow through the reserve outlet.

The other possibility is that the switch is not truly moving from one setting to the other.  There should be three settings; on, off, and reserve.  You should feel a sort of click as it drops into each position.  If you don't there's an issue with the petcock switch mechanism.

I don't think you have a big issue.  It's a small issue and just a challenge determining why.

[Knapdog]

... the last time I filled up, the tank took 19 litres of petrol having done 183 miles at 44 miles per uk gallon. If there was any left in Reserve then there would only have been  around 1 litre in there assuming that the tank holds 20 litres. I believe that "Reserve" is meant to be more than this.1 litre would only have left me around 10 miles of Reserve.
...  

That's empty including what should be reserve.

Reserve on the OEM petcock is determined by a (brass?) tube that leads up from the petcock.  If that tube is broken off or removed then the fuel will always flow through the reserve outlet.

The other possibility is that the switch is not truly moving from one setting to the other.  There should be three settings; on, off, and reserve.  You should feel a sort of click as it drops into each position.  If you don't there's an issue with the petcock switch mechanism.

I don't think you have a big issue.  It's a small issue and just a challenge determining why.

Thanks Willow.
I took the petcock out when I cleaned the inside of the tank.
I took the filter off and the brass tube and flushed everything clean. When I turned the control you could ser that all was working plus I put on a new Cover set.
I carefully refitted the gauze over the brass tube and could see how it fits tightly about 2/3rds of the way up .
Could there be some sort of "leak" at the bottom of the brass tube that is allowing fuel to flow through and so negating any Reserve?
I'm very careful about ensuring that the control clicks from one point to another.

[The emperor has no clothes]

I’m curious what the symptoms are if you run the bike on the reserve setting, and the off setting. I can relate that I had an issue with a non working reserve one time. I have the aftermarket chrome that surrounds the petcock and the key on the other side. It was mounted in a way that was slightly binding on the petcock settings. A different mounting setup cured it. I think it COULD be leaking around the brass tube as you asked. Seems pretty doubtful though. Only other things I could think of would be that the ball and socket setup on the switching side is boogered up.

[Willow]

...
Could there be some sort of "leak" at the bottom of the brass tube that is allowing fuel to flow through and so negating any Reserve?
...

Anything is possible and that would result in what you're experiencing.

Most riders don't depend upon reserve that often.  I run to reserve regularly and I know how much I've left when I hit that point.  If you don't depend upon reserve you can just fuel regularly at about 241 kilometers then you'll  probably be okay.  If you really want the cushion of the reserve you may need to replace the petcock.

[Willow]

I’m curious what the symptoms are if you run the bike on the reserve setting, and the off setting. ...

That's a good suggestion.  If you start off with the petcock in the off position and leave it there it should go no more than a couple of miles on the fuel in the carbs.  If it keeps going it means the petcock is flowing no matter the setting.

[Knapdog]

I’m curious what the symptoms are if you run the bike on the reserve setting, and the off setting. I can relate that I had an issue with a non working reserve one time. I have the aftermarket chrome that surrounds the petcock and the key on the other side. It was mounted in a way that was slightly binding on the petcock settings. A different mounting setup cured it. I think it COULD be leaking around the brass tube as you asked. Seems pretty doubtful though. Only other things I could think of would be that the ball and socket setup on the switching side is boogered up.

Thank you.
Sometimes I accidentally set off in the "Off" position. I get about a mile before it starts spluttering so that's fine.
From what I can recall, Reserve is no different to "On" regarding the running.
I'm glad that I've checked the petcock to find it's a genuine Keihin though as you suggest there could still be a problem internally.
As long as there's no flow restriction I can live without a Reserve as I know when to fill up.
However, finding a decent petcock with a working Reserve, for piece of mind, would be tempting.

[Jess from VA]

IF it's the petcock.

[steveB (VRCC UK)]

Knapdog - Not me who bought your Pingel. I buy direct from the manufacture (too many Chinese copies).
Discard the vacuum tube from inlet manifold and cap with a stock plug. Pingel used to do a vacuum operated tap but I can't see it on their site http://www.pingelonline.com/prodcat/fuel-valves.asp. Wouldn't fitting a diaphragm operated tap negate the point ?
Fitted lots of Pingels to "customers" bikes never had a problem.
The CBR 600 fuel tap part number 16950-MAL-603 is a manual tap and the Valk chrome parts work with it (after discarding vacuum tube and and capping).  In the UK, Fowlers in Bristol have em in stock 
BTW the desmog has nothing to do with the fuel tap you use. The PAIR valves and their associated tubing can be left in place, it makes no difference to the fuel delivery system.

[Knapdog]

Knapdog - Not me who bought your Pingel. I buy direct from the manufacture (too many Chinese copies).
Discard the vacuum tube from inlet manifold and cap with a stock plug. Pingel used to do a vacuum operated tap but I can't see it on their site http://www.pingelonline.com/prodcat/fuel-valves.asp. Wouldn't fitting a diaphragm operated tap negate the point ?
Fitted lots of Pingels to "customers" bikes never had a problem.
The CBR 600 fuel tap part number 16950-MAL-603 is a manual tap and the Valk chrome parts work with it (after discarding vacuum tube and and capping).  In the UK, Fowlers in Bristol have em in stock 
BTW the desmog has nothing to do with the fuel tap you use. The PAIR valves and their associated tubing can be left in place, it makes no difference to the fuel delivery system.

Yes, double checked, sold it to someone else, apologies.

I appreciate that desmogging has nothing to do with the fuel tap.. I'd actually bought the kit from Redeye (now sold) but when I could see you had to cut one of the pipes off when removing them I decided against it as it seemed there was no way then of reversing the process. Hence, I just renewed all the "rubber" tubes, vacuum and fuel.
If I went ahead with that cbr600 petcock, because I'd like to keep the chrome extension on/off/reserve switch, and removed the vacuum pipe to #6 inlet manifold are you saying that all I'd need to do is push one of those plugs on the inlet manifold as found on #1, #2 and #5 ?

[steveB (VRCC UK)]

Yep they are called Boost Caps part number 16075GHBB70 (https://www.fowlersparts.co.uk/parts/4907177/gl1500cy-2000-ed/cylinder). You need to use the filter off the Valk, CBR is too long.

[Knapdog]

Yep they are called Boost Caps part number 16075GHBB70 (https://www.fowlersparts.co.uk/parts/4907177/gl1500cy-2000-ed/cylinder). You need to use the filter off the Valk, CBR is too long.

Star man  

Steve, that part number is coming up as an o-ring. Is that right?


Sorted it, Steve.....

On the parts diagram it's #6...



Thank you.

[Knapdog]

Yep they are called Boost Caps part number 16075GHBB70 (https://www.fowlersparts.co.uk/parts/4907177/gl1500cy-2000-ed/cylinder). You need to use the filter off the Valk, CBR is too long.

Just enquiring. Do you know if there's anywhere in UK, Steve, that sells Pingel petcocks should I wish to go down that route, please?

[steveB (VRCC UK)]

Ha gave you the wrong part no. Thats down to left hand cut n paste. (Got my right arm in a fibre glass cast from knuckles to elbow after breaking me wrist and forearm). Try https://www.hogparts.co.uk/pingel-power-flo-petcock-hex-chrome-p49315 they are the UK agent. Or just phone Pingel and talk to Craig on their sales desk he'll despatch same day. Anyway back to left handed wrenching on a mates Tourer that was abandoned for 7 years. Quality time.

[gordonv]

... the last time I filled up, the tank took 19 litres of petrol having done 183 miles at 44 miles per uk gallon. If there was any left in Reserve then there would only have been  around 1 litre in there assuming that the tank holds 20 litres. I believe that "Reserve" is meant to be more than this.1 litre would only have left me around 10 miles of Reserve.
...  

That's empty including what should be reserve.

Reserve on the OEM petcock is determined by a (brass?) tube that leads up from the petcock.  If that tube is broken off or removed then the fuel will always flow through the reserve outlet.

The other possibility is that the switch is not truly moving from one setting to the other.  There should be three settings; on, off, and reserve.  You should feel a sort of click as it drops into each position.  If you don't there's an issue with the petcock switch mechanism.

I don't think you have a big issue.  It's a small issue and just a challenge determining why.

As per the manual,
Fuel tank capacity GL 1500C/CT 20 liters (5 .3 US gal, 4.4 Imp gal)
GL1500CF 26 liters (6.9 US gal, 5.7 Imp gal)

Fuel tank reserve capacity
G11500C/CT 4.3 liters (1.14 US gal, 0.95 Imp gal)
GL1500CF 4.0 liters (1 .06 US gal, 0.88 Imp gal

At the 183 miles, you're at where I usually am at when I get to reserve, then I look to refuel.

My petcock wouldn't turn off, or need to turn to reserve. Then one day when I was desmoging and doing a lot of work when the tank/air box needed to come off, I looked into the petcock. Found nothing wrong, and it was working fine. Back together, and now it seems to run out of fuel when it should off/reserve. I've a spare petcock, and a rebuild kit.

You do know you can put the petcock together so it doesn't require the vacuum shut off?

[Knapdog]

You do know you can put the petcock together so it doesn't require the vacuum shut off?

How do you do that?
....... and thank you for all that info regarding "Reserve" etc.

[Steel cowboy]

I have been using the, CBR 600 petcock part number 16950-MAL-603 for over 2 years now. It’s a manual petcock, no vacuum needed. All the chrome stock parts (Run, off, reserve dial, will go back on the bike and work with this petcock.
I do test it occasionally by turning it off as I’m riding, it has stalled the engine after two minutes of running, so it still works fine.

[Knapdog]

I have been using the, CBR 600 petcock part number 16950-MAL-603 for over 2 years now. It’s a manual petcock, no vacuum needed. All the chrome stock parts (Run, off, reserve dial, will go back on the bike and work with this petcock.
I do test it occasionally by turning it off as I’m riding, it has stalled the engine after two minutes of running, so it still works fine.

CBR600 petcock now ordered, £116.
I toyed with getting a Pingel but I'd have to get it from the States which would involve the extra Customs charges, plus with the cbr one I'll still be able to use the Valkyrie chrome switch on it.
Thanks, all.

[Willow]

CBR600 petcock now ordered, £116.
I toyed with getting a Pingel but I'd have to get it from the States which would involve the extra Customs charges, plus with the cbr one I'll still be able to use the Valkyrie chrome switch on it.
Thanks, all.

Don't forget that with a non-vacuum activated petcock you have to either trust yourself to ALWAYS turn off the petcock when the bike's engine is stopped or install an electric activated fuel line switch.

[Jess from VA]

The habit to make muscle memory is this:

Reach down on one side and turn the key off, and reach down on the other side and turn the gas off.  Do this every time and you'll never have a problem.

[Willow]

...  Do this EVERY time and you'll never have a problem.

That's quite a heavy responsibility.  

[gordonv]

You do know you can put the petcock together so it doesn't require the vacuum shut off?

How do you do that?
....... and thank you for all that info regarding "Reserve" etc.

I know I've seen pictures of it, but here is the post I had saved.
http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,18092.0.html

Basically the the spring keeps the valve closed till vacuum is added, then it opens. You move the spring to the other side of the diaphragm and now it stays open even when vacuum is applied/released.

Found it!
http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,37577.0.html

[Knapdog]

I have now fitted the cbr600 petcock and fitted a Redeye cap on #6 intake.
You can advise me differently but I left the new and longer than the oem, gauze filter on rather than swapping over for the smaller oem one.
It is a bit too long and when I fitted the new petcock I could just about feel it hitting the top of the tank snd bending over a bit, but it's plastic. It will bend and it's brand new. It fits the brass tube perfectly and I left it on.
I took the bike for a short spin and it felt better, almost as if the "handbrake" had been on a bit previously.
I opened up the throttle and it just went. I can only put this down to freer fuel flow.
This was a good move. I was already used to switching the petcock every time I stopped and that won't be a problem.
Looking forward to comparing the old with the new in the days ahead.