Low beam relay

[Jess from VA]

One of my Interstates lost both low beams last fall (at the same time).

I looked at and cleaned the hi/lo switch, and that seemed fine.

Most run auto parts 55/60 bulbs with a broken off tab (and not the Honda 45/45s), but nearly 2 years ago I changed up to Hella Off Road 80/100 bulbs in both bikes.  Always run dims only (80W X 2), rarely might flash brights, never had a problem, never saw any significant drop in my aftermarket digital ammeters.

I got under the seat and side cover and saw a couple of what appear to be switches, but no idea which is which.  

Called my local Honda MC parts man who told me the OE parts fishe has no listing for a low beam relay, but does have 4 or more "starter" relays, and that one of them was probably the one I needed (not very helpful).  The OE wiring diagram is also beyond my skill level, with some 'brown wire 4P' thing which might involve the low beam relay.

I did not pull and look at those bulbs, I hate that job kneeling in front of the fairing and reaching underneath.  And I bet the bulbs are fine.  My other Interstate with the same bulbs is working fine, including headlights.

If I got a new low beam relay in my hands, and got back under the seat/sidecover and found the same part, and swapped it out, it seems likely the problem would be solved.

Does anyone know the actual part number for the Interstate low beam relay?  (It may be different for Interstates with 2 headlights instead of one).


Whenever these things come up, I am reminded of the movie Kelly's Heroes when Clint Eastwood gets on his tank driver Donald Sutherland to fix the tank, and 'Oddball' replies "Oh man, I only drive them, I have no idea how to fix them".      (That's me)



 

[Jims99]

I have not had to deal with the relays on mine, but part number will be the same for several different relays. It may be the bulbs (if switch is good) low beams burnt out. Running two head lights you will usually not notice if one is out until the other one dies. That’s why some think they both go out at same time. I’ll walk around and check all bulbs on occasion.
I don’t have my book handy, if no one else chimes in on what relay (position) I’ll look it up later and let you know.

[Jess from VA]

Thanks Jim.

That bike used to have a perpetual loose bulb (or something) on one side that had to be pushed on the back of the plug to get it to come on every other time I rode it.  A sharp smack on the plastic headlight cover would also turn it on most of the time (lol).  That's gone ever since the new bulbs went in, but I always look at the headlights before riding out of habit, and I'm 99% sure I lost them both at the same time. 

With a good hi/lo switch (as far as I know), that's why I strongly suspect the relay.  They can't be too expensive, and if I can get one, it'll either fix it, or rule it out (so I can look elsewhere). 

Over the years, I've had auto repair shops and dealers start 'throwing new parts' at my cars with 'gremlins,' to try and discover the problem.       

[WintrSol]

The parts list here: https://www.cyclepartsnation.com/oemparts/a/hon/506c2fbef870023420a31c7d/wire-harness
shows four 'starter relays' (18), so probably only one is used for that function, and the others?

In any case, you can put unique labels on each, then swap them around, to see if the lights come back on. The one taken out and replaced with another is the bad one, assuming it wasn't the connector failing. At $51 US, kind of pricey for a relay, but that's Honda.

[Jess from VA]

The parts list here: https://www.cyclepartsnation.com/oemparts/a/hon/506c2fbef870023420a31c7d/wire-harness
shows four 'starter relays' (18), so probably only one is used for that function, and the others?

THAT'S MY PROBLEM, WHICH ONE?

In any case, you can put unique labels on each, then swap them around, to see if the lights come back on. The one taken out and replaced with another is the bad one, assuming it wasn't the connector failing. At $51 US, kind of pricey for a relay, but that's Honda.

That's also what the Honda Parts guy suggested I try, but given my novice skill set (especially anything electrical), I'm afraid of ending up with a bike that doesn't run at all, instead of one that runs great with only hi beams.

I have a really gifted (lone wolf) bike mechanic, but he's over an hour away, and I have a difficult to impossible time getting a ride home and back if I have to leave my bike there (which he prefers over asking it to be fixed while I wait).  And if I do have to go down there, I want to have a new relay with me when I do.   

[-mike-]

You may save a lot of money if you get an aftermarket solenoid relay.

Search term "Mitsuba Style for Honda Motorcycles" or just type "SMU6062"

Good luck!
-mike-
*Let there be light"

[WintrSol]

Just swapping relays shouldn't cause failures; you don't even have to start the bike. Just move relay A to socket B, turn the key, look for light; repeat.

That's essentially what your mechanic would do, then replace the one replaced last with new.

[Jess from VA]

Just swapping relays shouldn't cause failures; you don't even have to start the bike. Just move relay A to socket B, turn the key, look for light; repeat.

That's essentially what your mechanic would do, then replace the one replaced last with new.

OK, I took a closer look at the parts fishe you posted.  (I clearly didn't look close enough when I went searching last Fall.)  

There is 1 relay for Turn Signals, part #15.  And 1 Suspension, Turn Signal Relay part #16.  Those can't be it.

Then there are 4 'Suspension, Starter Relays' part #18, and I can't see how suspension can have anything to do with headlights.  

Then there are 4 more "starter relays" in the parts diagram, and they are all part #17.

So by elimination, the low beam relay has to be a part #17 (38501-GN2-014).

Now I understand that swapping them around is just to find which of the 4 identical #17 relays on the bike wiring harness is bad (or rather, which of the 4 is the low beam relay, since that's the only thing that isn't working).

I just need to order a part #17 (38501-GN2-014), and be done with it.  Do you agree?

Then, when it warms up above frostbite, I need to get back in the bike and see if I can actually find 4 of the same "starter relays" #17s to start playing around with.  And if I can't, ride the new relay to my bike guy and watch him do it in 3 minutes.  

Thanks for your help Mister WintrSol.  

[Jess from VA]

You may save a lot of money if you get an aftermarket solenoid relay.

Search term "Mitsuba Style for Honda Motorcycles" or just type "SMU6062"

Good luck!
-mike-
*Let there be light"

Mike, I did some looking and found a bunch of starter relays with that number (for under $10), but some were for other make motorcycles, and the ones for Honda listed a bunch of Honda models, but none for a Valkyrie or Interstate.  And one of the Honda listings even said it was NOT for a Valkyrie Interstate.  So I quit looking, but I appreciate the advice.    

[WintrSol]

If you have the shop manual, look at page 1-33. If not, I can make a printscreen image and post it as a jpg.
On it, you will see a number of 4P relays, including High Beam and Low Beam; swap those two.
Also, compare to the parts diagram to see which they are, #17 or #18.

[Jess from VA]

If you have the shop manual, look at page 1-33. If not, I can make a printscreen image and post it as a jpg.
On it, you will see a number of 4P relays, including High Beam and Low Beam; swap those two.
Also, compare to the parts diagram to see which they are, #17 or #18.

I do have the shop manual out in bike shed.  No need to jpg it for me (but thanks).

I'll go out and get it, and take another look at this later.

It's hard to understand what a "suspension relay" could be for.  Suspension isn't electrical, but they gave that name to electrical parts.  Honda makes great bikes, but some of their printed materials/part names are downright inscrutable.  But you're saying the low beam relay might be an #18 (not a #17)? 

I've been on this forum a long time, and cannot remember ever reading about anyone else having a headlight electrical relay problem.  My ace mechanic cautioned me about running 80/100 bulbs (which I got him to install), along the lines of "it'll probably be OK, but there could be something happen."  So I suppose the higher bulbs draw could have fried the low beam relay.  But only after running both bikes around 18 months, and only on one (the higher mileage one 112K).  And I never ride at night (anymore); the extra light was only to be seen, not see.

A relay problem is only my best guess.  If that's it (or even if it's not), I should probably stick 55/60s back in both bikes anyway.  I have good new ones out in my shed.



 

[Pluggy]

So I suppose the higher bulbs draw could have fried the low beam relay.
 

Jess, if the relay failed, that's lucky and easy.  Those super bulbs require (about) twice the current of the stock 45W items.  A connector in the wiring harness may have failed due to the extra current passing through it.  A technician would use a multimeter to trace the circuit back towards the battery to find where the 12V disappears.  If a connector needs replaced, it is useful to have experience.

Hopefully a new relay is the fix.  Then you can put those 45W bulbs back in your bike.

[Jess from VA]

So I suppose the higher bulbs draw could have fried the low beam relay.
 

Jess, if the relay failed, that's lucky and easy.  Those super bulbs require (about) twice the current of the stock 45W items.  A connector in the wiring harness may have failed due to the extra current passing through it.  A technician would use a multimeter to trace the circuit back towards the battery to find where the 12V disappears.  If a connector needs replaced, it is useful to have experience.

Hopefully a new relay is the fix.  Then you can put those 45W bulbs back in your bike.

Thanks for the advice Pluggy.

I don't think 55/60s present any worry, but believe the 80/100s need to go.  

I just wish (and was really hoping) someone on here would know the correct part number for the low beam relay.  So I could try to fix it myself.

But if I do have any kind of wiring/harness issue beyond a plug and play relay, it will have to go to my mechanic.  

[Pluggy]

Suspension, Relay is the black rubber part the connects the frame to the relay.  it is not an electrical part.

[Pluggy]

Suspension, Relay is the black rubber part the connects the frame to the relay.  it is not an electrical part.

Go to Amazon and look for 38501-GN2-014.  This is used on many Honda models.  It appears to be the only relay part number for your bike, except the flasher.  If I needed one, it could arrive in one day.

[Jess from VA]

Suspension, Relay is the black rubber part the connects the frame to the relay.  it is not an electrical part.

Go to Amazon and look for 38501-GN2-014.  This is used on many Honda models.  It appears to be the only relay part number for your bike, except the flasher.  If I needed one, it could arrive in one day.

Well hell, 'suspension relays' are just rubber mounts for actual relays?  (which makes sense, 4 suspension mounts for 4 "starter relays" part #17 - 38501-GN2-014.

I went to Amazon for that part and this link has too many for me to pick the right one, do you have a suggestion?  

Thank you so much.  

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=38501-gn2-014&crid=2ADVS7WSVUAWV&sprefix=38501-GN2-014%2Caps%2C136&ref=nb_sb_ss_mvt-t3-ranker_1_13

[Pluggy]

Most of those under $20 relays are probably from the same Taiwan source.  Try this one:

https://www.amazon.com/DB-Electrical-SMU6061-38501-GN2-014-38501-GN2-004/dp/B00SHU9LH8/ref=sr_1_3?dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.Cy1G99q2nfo2FIhUyqcCTQekiX5_5UVRTNQlmk01fBGqOVxbsk5CSH3zuuRRV9VB5vVFUB-lFfZuH3sFdLgGYursj1Eby0KafaVz4xU8WBHh3pGWxR3rtTIVMLi-EeXjg5P_MOXVHlNb9p9Rz59jc1QVJbInfM259q1SxVx_ywF_eD7LmFZFxdQbZNWefa0eiUZcgtwOjSl-dfZ3UIso-e8rIkTf5xaSL4MqA7wLYwA.PNdxqIEZx5saCK2nCUap_IpOmN6IDfClJnr42pcPCs4&dib_tag=se&hvadid=580743853631&hvdev=t&hvlocphy=9010069&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=2443709930048363032&hvtargid=kwd-296459066134&hydadcr=7466_13212130&keywords=38501-gn2-014&mcid=f68a411021e0309bb5daabc651ec0d32&qid=1739985595&sr=8-3

Divide the maximum watts of a replacement bulb by 45.  That means a 60 watt bulb draws 1.33 times more current than Honda designed for.  Something to consider.

[Jess from VA]

Thank you so much Pluggy, I appreciate your time and help.     

I got 2. 

[Pluggy]

Thank you so much Pluggy, I appreciate your time and help.     

I got 2. 

Sure.  Let us know if replacing the relay solves the problem.

Pluggy

[WintrSol]

I kind of thought that 'suspension, relay' meant the rubber holder, especially given the low price, as compared to the actual relays. I didn't want to prejudice your assumption.

If swapping in new relays doesn't help, it'll be time to trace the wiring, as suggested. Major PITA as a learning experience. Even if you've done it before ...

[Jess from VA]

Well I had no idea what the hell a suspension relay was.   Now that I know, I guess a part to tie a relay to the frame could be called a suspension relay. 

I speak a little of five languages (besides English), but Japanese parts names isn't one of them.   

If I can find the bad relay, and I can replace it with a good one, and that doesn't bring my dims back, I give up and will seek professional help (for the bike... I'm fine). 

I absolutely will report back.  It's snowing again, so not today.   

[Jess from VA]

If you have the shop manual, look at page 1-33.  On it, you will see a number of 4P relays, including High Beam and Low Beam;

1-33 shows a number of 3P and 4P relays.

The low beam relay is "4P - Brown"

Does 4P mean 4 pins (a 4 prong plug)?  

Brown seems to be the wire color from battery, so am I looking for one brown wire into this low beam relay?     

  

[WintrSol]

According to the wiring diagram, there are 4 pins. The 4 wires are White/Black stripe, White/Blue stripe, Green, and White. Maybe the 'suspension, relay' is brown?

[Jess from VA]

Bringing this thread back up rather than start a new one.

I'm going to replace my 80/100 bulbs for less power draw (trouble).

I've always much preferred halogen light to led bulb light for seeing at night.  But I don't ride at night almost ever any more.  Research tells me LEDs are better for daytime visibility (to be seen) than halogens, so that's what I want to do.

I know there must be old threads on this, but will standard 55/60 car bulbs in LED fit in the Interstate plugs, and does a tab still need broken off like with regular H4s?   Can anyone tell me how much less power draw those 55/60 LED bulbs will use than 55/60 halogen bulbs?

I got my new high low beam relays from Amazon, but am waiting for warm weather before surgery on the harness.   

[WintrSol]

If you don't mind the cost, I installed the Eagle Light some time ago, and it is the best headlight, night or day, I have ever used: https://www.eaglelights.com/products/eagle-lights-honda-valkyrie-led-round-projection-headlight

[-mike-]

Quality H4 LED from Philips or Osram are easy to modify, as  the adapter ring that comes delivered with it is plastic.
For Philips bulbs there are even dedicated adapters available for Interstate type sockets.

I have the not road legal Philips Ultinon Pro9000.
These draw 18W each (low and high are the same draw).
Whopping double the lumens of the 90/100W incandence bulb  but more important: 5800K instead of the standard 6000k white colour from other LED contenders.

These 200k do make a massive difference on wet roads and at night.
So if you want to take another brand, keep this in mind.

Best of.luck,
-mike-

[Jess from VA]

Thanks Mike.  Again, I only ride in day and am only interested in being seen.  Not seeing at night.

I just got back from auto parts store and crap, a set of 2 Sylvania H4 9003 LED bulbs were $100.  And their only choice.  I got other stuff I needed and passed on those bulbs.

There must be something reliable that costs less than that?

[Pluggy]

Check Amazon for 9003 LED. I like the Auxito brand.

[WintrSol]

It occurs to me that the headlight I linked probably won't fit your bike.
Have you checked out Diode Dynamics? Good quality, and consistently bright: http://www.diodedynamics.com/store/?utm_source=solstice&utm_medium=forum&utm_campaign=signature

[-mike-]

Be careful not to go too cheap on LED bulbs
The major price difference comes not only from LED type but from LED driving circuits
Cheap bulbs with cheap 500kHz drivers produce a lot RF noise that will spread in your Interstate, rendering Radio useless by swamping the frequencies.

It may even play havoc with the ICM.

I've had some really bright H4 ones tested a few years ago  I had a lot of trouble damping the RF noise. Somewhere here in forum I wrote about  the issue

http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,112548.0.html

[-mike-]

http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,101690.0.html

http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,111701.0.html

http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,118196.0.html

[Jess from VA]

Thanks guys, I will peruse all those links later.

I just want good plug and play LED bulbs; no fairing, reflector or wiring work too.  Obviously, none of the single light rig units will work in the Interstate fairing. 

I absolutely don't want RF interference with the radio (or anything else), I listen to the Interstates radio 90% of my riding time.

Pluggy, I saw a bunch of cheaper LED H4 (9003) bulbs on Amazon (I assume most are Taiwan/Korea/China), and will look for your Auxito brand.  Do you have an Intestate? (I do, and worry about the RF interference Mike from Germany mentioned)

 

[Pluggy]

Thanks guys, I will peruse all those links later.

I just want good plug and play LED bulbs; no fairing, reflector or wiring work too.  Obviously, none of the single light rig units will work in the Interstate fairing.  

I absolutely don't want RF interference with the radio (or anything else), I listen to the Interstates radio 90% of my riding time.

Pluggy, I saw a bunch of cheaper LED H4 (9003) bulbs on Amazon (I assume most are Taiwan/Korea/China), and will look for your Auxito brand.  Do you have an Intestate? (I do, and worry about the RF interference Mike from Germany mentioned)

Jess, I don't own an interstate.  What I have learned is the older LED headlights generate more noise than the new ones.  On my 4 cylinder Honda, the LED headlight contains a fan and sends noise to a radio nearby.  The recent Auxito LED headlamp (no fan) on my 2003 Valkyrie makes noise that is only picked up when a portable radio is up against it.  If an LED from Amazon is not as good as you want, you can easily get a refund.  Seems worth a try.

ADDED:  Looks like the Auxito 9003 pair has fans.  If I was buying, fanless would be my preference.

[Jess from VA]

...the LED headlight contains a fan and sends noise to a radio nearby.  Looks like the Auxito 9003 pair has fans.  If I was buying, fanless would be my preference.

That sounds like good advice.  The fans must be for heat, but the Interstate fairing really breathes extremely well (when underway).  So fans should not really be necessary.  

Also, so many of the LED auto bulbs for sale are called "fog" lights.  The on line reading on this explains this is because all LEDs have a much wider dispersion than more aimable halogens, and LEDs are often not very compatible with existing headlight reflector housings.  And LED fogs are supposedly more aimed lower to better help drivers see (at night).  Can I use LED bulbs called fog lights, or are there versions of LED bulbs that are not fog lights I should be looking for?  Again, I am only interested in being seen in daylight riding.   

[Jims99]

Supperbright has a new bulb that will change from white to yellow for fog and rain. All you do is flip lights on and off and they change colors. I’m not sure if they would change every time you hit the start button or not. Sounds like a great idea though.

[Pluggy]

...the LED headlight contains a fan and sends noise to a radio nearby.  Looks like the Auxito 9003 pair has fans.  If I was buying, fanless would be my preference.

That sounds like good advice.  The fans must be for heat, but the Interstate fairing really breathes extremely well (when underway).  So fans should not really be necessary.  

Also, so many of the LED auto bulbs for sale are called "fog" lights.  The on line reading on this explains this is because all LEDs have a much wider dispersion than more aimable halogens, and LEDs are often not very compatible with existing headlight reflector housings.  And LED fogs are supposedly more aimed lower to better help drivers see (at night).  Can I use LED bulbs called fog lights, or are there versions of LED bulbs that are not fog lights I should be looking for?  Again, I am only interested in being seen in daylight riding.  

The 9003 is commonly used as a fog light bulb and that may be part of the description.  Mechanically and electrically all 9003s should be interchangable.  The "on the road" result of installing these SHOULD be the same as the 9003s that Honda put in your bike.  Will the ones you pick make a light pattern you like? HOPEFULLY, but you have to try them.

Personally, I'd made my best pick and give them a try.  Here in Rural NC, we buy a lot from Amazon.  Anything not meeting our expectations gets an easy return.  One of the few remaining money-back guarantees.

[Jess from VA]

Thanks again Pluggy.

Again, to only be seen in daylight traffic, I really don't care a damn about any particular light pattern.  The one or two times a year coming home in the dark (if that), I'd just live with whatever I had.  And one of my Interstates has a set of mini 70 watt PIAA halogens mounted under the fairing I practically never use anyway, but could (not wired into headlight circuits, fused to battery). 

So I should be looking for fanless 9003s (to avoid RF radio interference) and it doesn't matter if they are called 'fog' LEDs?

I'm hoping to do this once, on both bikes, with no returns and starting over.   

(And I'm sorry to be such an ignorant PITA about all things electrical)

 

[-mike-]

Fanless doesn't mean no RF emission.
Again: It's the LED driving circuit that emits RF noise if it is built cheap.
High powered LED aren't current limited by simple resistors. The do use a kind of ultrafast switch on-off regulation.
Or at least they should be ultra fast (2MHz) cheap circuits use just 500kHz and have none or just a rudimentary L-C Filter element built in.

Unfortunately you can't measure this, if you don't have some special equipment.
I happen to have a fancy RF spectrum analyser I need for my other hobby, FPF drones.

Sylvania's Mother company, Osram over here in Germany has only turbo fanned LED retrofit lamps and they do emit nothing. Chances are high the Sylvania brand in the USA ist the same.

I I were you, I'd take the advice above and have a try and error order on Amazon.
BTW, I saw the Sylvania on Amazon for 60 USD.

-mike-

[Pluggy]

Mike, we remember when the LED driver circuit was in a little box.  Yes, that circuit will have an effect.  The fan or no fan made a difference here, but it certainly could be the driver circuits.  If you have found the Sylvania 9003 to be a quiet and useful LED, you are a hero. A lot of owners have been looking for such an item.

[-mike-]

Sorry, I don't KNOW if Sylvnia LEDs are the very same as the Osram over here.
Just an educated guess based on same Manufacturer and similarity to product pictures.

Sylvania doesn't exist over here  that's an US based brand only.

Good luck anyways.

-mike-