Honda killing the motorcycle??

[98valk]

https://www.ericpetersautos.com/2025/10/21/honda-kills-the-motorcycle/

""Honda – the company that can be given credit for helping to make riding a motorcycle something people other than bikers (as in Hell’s Angels types) did by introducing a line of bikes (the Dream series, back in the ’60s) that appealed to people who weren’t bikers – is in the process of doing something that may end up ending motorcycling.

I refer here to the the company’s “E-Clutch,” which it is installing on the entry-level Rebel 300. This bike has long been the first bike for new riders because it is light and easy to ride. The Motorcycle Safety Foundation (MSF) which runs new rider courses all over the country uses the Rebel to teach new riders the basics: Keeping a bike upright and – the biggest thing – how to operate the clutch.

The E-Clutch does away with that and thereby arguably does away with the essential thing that makes a motorcycle something different than a Moped or a Scooter (or a car – with an automatic transmission –  for that matter).""

[Hook#3287]

I'm the happy owner of a 18 Goldwing DCT and it's amazing.

It does not diminish the excitement, experience or joy of motorcycling at all and in fact improves it.

I can allow the computer to shift gears as it's programmed to, or shift it when I want with the manual mode and finger paddles.

The only real loss is my left foot is not involved in my motorcyclingj process as much as when I'm on a Valk, so I delegated it as my ground finder foot when stopped.

E-clutches most likely do not have manual mode. But if it helps someone to get in the wind, good for them.

I can't see how e-clutch will enter competition racing, so manual shift transmission is here for a while.

[Chrisj CMA]

My only issue is with slow riding control. Those that do not know how to feather the clutch, throttle and rear brake cannot effectively navigate tight slow turns and maneuvering like those that can. I just wonder how the auto clutch/mode does in that situation

[scooperhsd]

My first motorcycle (way back in 1978) was a Honda CB400A (for automatic) - the transmission was a 2 speed "automatic" , in reality, you selected either Low or high gear and the bike just went. You could change which gear you were using while riding, and I often (almost always) did so. The CB750's of that time also could accomodate the Hondamatic - I think some were made but don't hold me to actual numbers. When parking, you had a parking brake activated by what is normally the clutch control.

[Serk]

I want nothing to do with an automatic transmission on a bike. I've fought to avoid 'em in my cage but have lost that battle recently.

Kids today aren't interesting in motorcycles.

IMHO anything that gets 'em interested on getting up on 2 wheels is a good thing.

This is a good thing.

I am concerned it will be harder and harder to get a real motorcycle if this takes off, but better automatics than no motorcycles...

[old2soon]

    The very FIRST thing Dad taught me to do was Drive and the PROPER handling of a Manual transmission and the Clutch. Gittin coordinated with the brake clutch accelerator and proper gear was a Real Load fer a 15 year old! BUT Learn I did.  Same when I threw my leg over a Whizzer long Before I was introduced to cages. My last-SADLY-manual transmission personal vehicle was a 77 Chevy 3/4 ton pickup.  My 12 G/W trike Is the typical Honda 5 speed. I firmly Believe I coulkd git into a multi speed Manal transmission big truck-should any Still be available-and git er on down the highway with little clashing of gears. BUT I duz Agree with my Tall Texas Friend-if it takes an automatic transfusion to git the younglings in da wind the THAT be a gooder thing!  RIDE SAFE.

[f6john]

Improving the breed. If you can afford it. C8 Corvettes have very narrow window recommendations for transmission service. Dealers are charging $1700- 2300 for the service. Mandatory if you want to keep your warranty. Think I will keep my 6 speed manual C5 a while longer.

[Jersey mike]

My first motorcycle (way back in 1978) was a Honda CB400A (for automatic) - the transmission was a 2 speed "automatic" , in reality, you selected either Low or high gear and the bike just went. You could change which gear you were using while riding, and I often (almost always) did so. The CB750's of that time also could accomodate the Hondamatic - I think some were made but don't hold me to actual numbers. When parking, you had a parking brake activated by what is normally the clutch control.

When I was a kid my dad got me a Honda 90 ST Trail bike.

It had a 3 speed manual shift and no clutch.

I think it was 1 down, 2 up and you could come to a complete stop and the bike would stand still until you hit the throttle. It was a breeze to ride for a beginner and as long as you were off the gas shifting was simple.

I don’t know why more bikes aren’t made this way, it certainly might make it less intimidating for beginners, even if it’s introduced with models up to maybe 350 or 500cc.

[sandy]

I heard similar debates when HD introduced the electaglide. Oh the horror of a started button. The end result was a huge increase in MC ownership. Maybe this will have a similar effect.

[Jack B]

I just bought a new Honda Transalp and it has a speed shifter which means you don’t need the clutch to shift up or down.
So far I don’t like the way it feels maybe because I’m not used to it yet, but I’m using the clutch.
Ir Looks like there’s a little shock absorber above the shifter.

[Hook#3287]

It all comes down to what you learned on and what your used to.

I would guess most on this board learned to ride on a bike with a clutch, but does that make a automatic clutch, centrifugal clutch or automatic transmission bike any less fun?

I don't think so, just get in the wind.

My D(dual) C(clutch) T(transmission) is a technical marvel invented and used in several Honda motorcycles and ATV's.

It has a learning curve, but I've never heard of anyone that has one, selling it and going back to a clutch and shift bike.

My only gripe, and I've overcome it, is not being able to pull the clutch in while moving.

If that will ever make a difference or not remains to be seen.

But for pure grinning factor, which many here may not consider important, you crank that throttle and the shifts are fast and flawless and will blow your hair back.

Even in "Tour" mode. Then there's "Sport" mode.

To answer Jeff's question, the slow speed control is different to manage then with a hand clutch and I've heard of DCT clutch issues with parade riders and Honda not providing warranty fixes.  Honda stated the bike is not designed for that type of use.

[Rams]

While I don't want one and doubt I ever would, if it keeps folks in the wind I have no issues with it.

Rams

[Pluggy]

Brand preferance or aversion starts with the customer's first experience.

That Rebel 300 may be the first motorcycle a person rides. If riding that Rebel is fun and easy, they will be more likely to buy a Honda in the future. That's where brand loyalty begins. As the beginner advances, they can then learn how to use the clutch.  

Honda wants people to finish Lesson #1 thinking "Honda is good".  After all, they are in the business of selling motorcycles.

[old2soon]

    Local guy here hadstill has? I believe the Honda Silver Wing like an overgroweds scooter or a shrunk M/C. I did in Fact git to ride it. Even though he Did WARN me the transmission on his Totally Completely disconnects or free wheels tween 4 & 6 MPH!  The first time wuz very concerning But on the other rides I was INDEED & FACT Ready fer it!  BUT the dang thing would leave smooth as warm butter! Found out too the S W Woukld accelerate rather smartly when called upon. RIDE SAFE.

[Serk]

After all, they are in the business of selling motorcycles.

Are they though? Sure "feels" like Honda is winding down their motorcycle business.... Our local Honda shops are almost entirely ATVs, jet ski's and side by sides now, with only a handful of motorcycles almost as an afterthought...

Hope I'm wrong on this...

[Chrisj CMA]

It all comes down to what you learned on and what your used to.

I would guess most on this board learned to ride on a bike with a clutch, but does that make a automatic clutch, centrifugal clutch or automatic transmission bike any less fun?

I don't think so, just get in the wind.

My D(dual) C(clutch) T(transmission) is a technical marvel invented and used in several Honda motorcycles and ATV's.

It has a learning curve, but I've never heard of anyone that has one, selling it and going back to a clutch and shift bike.

My only gripe, and I've overcome it, is not being able to pull the clutch in while moving.

If that will ever make a difference or not remains to be seen.

But for pure grinning factor, which many here may not consider important, you crank that throttle and the shifts are fast and flawless and will blow your hair back.

Even in "Tour" mode. Then there's "Sport" mode.

To answer Jeff's question, the slow speed control is different to manage then with a hand clutch and I've heard of DCT clutch issues with parade riders and Honda not providing warranty fixes.  Honda stated the bike is not designed for that type of use.

Thanks Hook, kinds what I figured. I couldn’t live with that. Our town is horrible. Most days it’s like a parade just to go ANYWHERE. Plus I like navigating parking lots and my own driveway very slowly.

[Pluggy]

After all, they are in the business of selling motorcycles.

Are they though? Sure "feels" like Honda is winding down their motorcycle business.... Our local Honda shops are almost entirely ATVs, jet ski's and side by sides now, with only a handful of motorcycles almost as an afterthought...

Hope I'm wrong on this...

Around here, our Honda dealer is doing well with the four wheel products.  They sell motorcycles, too.  We all know Honda no longer offers products that compete with Harley or Indian.  Goldwing is for a different type of customer, as is the 750 and smaller offerings.  

Honda remains the largest producer of motorcycles, worldwide.  Products like that Rebel are also sold in other countries.  Evidently, Honda feels that the small-to-medium sized motorcycle market in the US is still worthwhile.  Fortunately, the corporation has a very diverse offering of products.

[Hook#3287]

It all comes down to what you learned on and what your used to.

I would guess most on this board learned to ride on a bike with a clutch, but does that make a automatic clutch, centrifugal clutch or automatic transmission bike any less fun?

I don't think so, just get in the wind.

My D(dual) C(clutch) T(transmission) is a technical marvel invented and used in several Honda motorcycles and ATV's.

It has a learning curve, but I've never heard of anyone that has one, selling it and going back to a clutch and shift bike.

My only gripe, and I've overcome it, is not being able to pull the clutch in while moving.

If that will ever make a difference or not remains to be seen.

But for pure grinning factor, which many here may not consider important, you crank that throttle and the shifts are fast and flawless and will blow your hair back.

Even in "Tour" mode. Then there's "Sport" mode.

To answer Jeff's question, the slow speed control is different to manage then with a hand clutch and I've heard of DCT clutch issues with parade riders and Honda not providing warranty fixes.  Honda stated the bike is not designed for that type of use.

Thanks Hook, kinds what I figured. I couldn’t live with that. Our town is horrible. Most days it’s like a parade just to go ANYWHERE. Plus I like navigating parking lots and my own driveway very slowly.

Honda answered that with both forward and reverse crawling gears in the DCT.  They are slow and progressive in that when you engage and the bike hits resistance, the bike uses more power.

Very controllable, but not an answer to "parade" riding.

Seems like Honda left that type of riding to HD.

 They are better at slow

[F6Dave]

Whether it's successful or not, after a few years Honda will probably drop it like the Valkyrie, CBX, Pacific Coast, F6B, VFR1200...

[Pluggy]

Whether it's successful or not, after a few years Honda will probably drop it like the Valkyrie, CBX, Pacific Coast, F6B, VFR1200...

Hello, Dave. Let's remember that a manufacturer like Honda doesn't "drop" products. It is consumers like us that drop the products. A product needs a certain sales volume to be profitable. Honda has made some fine motorcycles that did not sell enough to keep in production.  

Certainly, Honda took a long look at why those products didn't sell and adjusted their offerings accordingly.

[F6Dave]

Whether it's successful or not, after a few years Honda will probably drop it like the Valkyrie, CBX, Pacific Coast, F6B, VFR1200...

Hello, Dave. Let's remember that a manufacturer like Honda doesn't "drop" products. It is consumers like us that drop the products. A product needs a certain sales volume to be profitable. Honda has made some fine motorcycles that did not sell enough to keep in production.  

Certainly, Honda took a long look at why those products didn't sell and adjusted their offerings accordingly.

That's mostly true, but in the past Honda was known for building some motorcycles just to make a statement, or because the company was run by motorcycle enthusiasts like Mr. Honda himself. It's well known that the Rune was a statement, because Honda lost vast amounts of money on each one. There are other examples like the oval piston NR750.

Other companies keep low volume bikes with a loyal following around for years. The Kawasaki Concours and Yamaha Venture are two examples.

[cutter]

Zerk, I'm with you on this;
( I want nothing to do with an automatic transmission on a bike. I've fought to avoid 'em in my cage but have lost that battle recently. )

I moved to a wing after they totaled my interstate. went with a 2010 and now have a 2023 wing. I did not want the automatic and took a while to find the 6 speed. Learned to drive and took my drivers test in a stick. Automatics have their place, prefer the manual on the bike.

[scooperhsd]

We have always had at least one manual transmission car since we have been married - since 1987. We currently have 2 and one DSG (automatic shifting transmission).

[cookiedough]

I just bought a new Honda Transalp and it has a speed shifter which means you don’t need the clutch to shift up or down.
So far I don’t like the way it feels maybe because I’m not used to it yet, but I’m using the clutch.
Ir Looks like there’s a little shock absorber above the shifter.

overall all else aside from shifting,  how you liking the transalp?  My kid's older 2009 kawi klr650 on off road took a dump, but fixeable, somehow the chain came off not broke off the rear sprocket (he said chain was tight) and wrapped around the rear wheel and swingarm damaging/bending both badly in need of repair/replaced parts along with new rear tire and rim and new sprockets/chain/swingarm bent.  Those transalps are not cheap for sure considering tenure 700 or african twin, also both not cheap as well. 

He took his klr650 on long 1000 mile runs to UP and back loaded down has great long range gas tank over 6 gallons at around 60 mpg.  Is adequate power barely on off road trails, but heavy, as well as on road...

[f6john]

I doubt automatics will kill the motorcycle. In my mind, attitudes will kill the motorcycle over time. The general public doesn’t respect the bike or the rider. The general public  would be perfectly happy if they never encountered another motorcycle on the roads. Every time there is a motorcycle accident in my area the comments turn to what stupid thing was the biker doing and how dangerous they are in general.

[suthrncop]

I have mixed feelings on automatics.  My first cage was a manual and I thought I’d never have an automatic, but all of my last 4 or so cars have been automatics as my driving style changed.  Things changed, I’m pretty sure that if Honda put it out then it’s probably done right or damn close.  I would think that automatics would also bring draw more people to motorcycling

[Robert]

I have always preferred stick to automatic and would be open to try the DCT. I doubt I will ever have one since my Valk is as good as new and don't see enough reason to buy a different bike.

But on cars there is nothing like the high end automatics going right to the red line and engaging the next gear in the blink of an eye. The sound from my car with custom exhaust sounds like the F1 racers. It has paddle shifters and the only time I use them is when I'm going to step out quickly and want a lower gear. The automatic shifts way faster than I could ever shift it in a straight on run.

My car has a variation on the torque converter and has an actual wet clutch that is engaged by the computer. What is really nice is I actually have a deaccel when I let up off the gas like a clutch does. This configuration makes a big difference in shifting speed and the feel of the car in general. Not quite as smooth as a torque converter but the power transfer to the wheels is much better.

What makes the DCT better though  is the next gear is already engaged before you shift so there is no delay.
Its called a dual clutch because while the one clutch is engaged and transmitting power to the wheels, the second clutch is cued up by a computer predicting whether you'll be upshifting or downshift so in the essence, its all got it lined up and ready to engage the moment you ask. So the clutch is the only thing that requires time between shifts, not finding actual gears or wet clutches on a car trans.


I wish they would do this for all cars. 

[Hook#3287]

"But on cars a Goldwing DCT there is nothing like the high end automatics going right to the red line and engaging the next gear in the blink of an eye. The sound from my car DCT Goldwing with out custom exhaust sounds like the F1 racers. It has paddle shifters and the only time I use them is all the time or when I'm going to step out quickly and want a lower gear. The automatic shifts way faster than I could ever shift it in a straight on run."

Robert, I fixed that statement for you

What may be not being considered by the "I need to shift" crowd is the DCT has a clutch, actually as you pointed out, 2 of them, but a clutch lever is not needed, nor a foot operated shift lever.

You can shift away all you want with your left thumb and fore finger and it's grin giving, heart pounding excitement when you do.

Basically, until you put a couple hundred miles on a DCT bike of any model, you don't really have the correct information to discount it.

I was skeptical before I bought mine but a buddy that I respected as a rider swapped his HD for one and told me he loved it.

That was enough and I'm glad I listened.

To each
His own

[Hook#3287]

It all comes down to what you learned on and what your used to.

I would guess most on this board learned to ride on a bike with a clutch, but does that make a automatic clutch, centrifugal clutch or automatic transmission bike any less fun?

I don't think so, just get in the wind.

My D(dual) C(clutch) T(transmission) is a technical marvel invented and used in several Honda motorcycles and ATV's.

It has a learning curve, but I've never heard of anyone that has one, selling it and going back to a clutch and shift bike.

My only gripe, and I've overcome it, is not being able to pull the clutch in while moving.

If that will ever make a difference or not remains to be seen.

But for pure grinning factor, which many here may not consider important, you crank that throttle and the shifts are fast and flawless and will blow your hair back.

Even in "Tour" mode. Then there's "Sport" mode.

To answer Jeff's question, the slow speed control is different to manage then with a hand clutch and I've heard of DCT clutch issues with parade riders and Honda not providing warranty fixes.  Honda stated the bike is not designed for that type of use.

Thanks Hook, kinds what I figured. I couldn’t live with that. Our town is horrible. Most days it’s like a parade just to go ANYWHERE. Plus I like navigating parking lots and my own driveway very slowly.

Actually Jeff, in regular stop and go traffic, the DCT is awesome.  No left arm stress from clutching.

I believe the parade use is just way more than regular traffic on overuse and overheating of the clutches.

But im not doing any parade riding any time soon, so not an issue for me

[Robert]

"But on cars a Goldwing DCT there is nothing like the high end automatics going right to the red line and engaging the next gear in the blink of an eye. The sound from my car DCT Goldwing with out custom exhaust sounds like the F1 racers. It has paddle shifters and the only time I use them is all the time or when I'm going to step out quickly and want a lower gear. The automatic shifts way faster than I could ever shift it in a straight on run."

Robert, I fixed that statement for you

What may be not being considered by the "I need to shift" crowd is the DCT has a clutch, actually as you pointed out, 2 of them, but a clutch lever is not needed, nor a foot operated shift lever.

You can shift away all you want with your left thumb and fore finger and it's grin giving, heart pounding excitement when you do.

Basically, until you put a couple hundred miles on a DCT bike of any model, you don't really have the correct information to discount it.

I was skeptical before I bought mine but a buddy that I respected as a rider swapped his HD for one and told me he loved it.

That was enough and I'm glad I listened.

To each
His own

Thank you  

OK what about oil 

[Hook#3287]

So, you want to change this to a OIL thread?   

So the OP was about if Honda is killing the motorcycle market as stated by some guy named Eric.

If anything, by making motorcycling easier to the masses, the opposite is true.

How many of us started on small sized motorcycles?  My first was a mini-bike my brother and I made from cutting up our sisters banana bike.  "But Dad, she never rode it any more"

We put a Tecumseh motor with a centrifugal clutch on it and it had no shifter. Didn't stop us from moving up.

How many of us started with a Honda 50 or 70 w/o clutches?

"Honda is the largest motorcycle manufacturer in the world, with sales reaching approximately 19.4 million units in 2024"

Doesn't sound like their getting out of the motorcycle bidness any time soon.

[Oss]

Have a friend lives here and in Daytona

Had 3 harleys

bought a DCT wing and now sold 2 of the harleys

I am thinking of getting either the 1100 dct or the wing dct before springtime

Both generate enthusiastic reviews no negatives I can see

Perhaps I will ride both at americade in June then decide

  The force is strong  

Love my Valk, but it is getting time for a stablemate for it

[Hook#3287]

Evan, that 1100 dct calls to me somewhat.  When my legs have issues with the 800 lb bikes, that may be in the cards.

A guy your size may find the 6th gen Wing a little confining.

Americade test ride would be smart.

[Serk]

I've made the analogy before, I'll make it again...

We're at the point, or close to it, where a computer can operate a vehicle far better than any human can.

At what point does riding just become getting on a carnival ride?

(I don't know the answer to that, it's different for each rider. Some would say the Valkyrie is too automatic with not having to advance the spark and all the stuff they had to do 100 years ago.)

I like using all 4 appendages in a symphony of cooperation to ride.

Not denigrating those who only want to use 3 appendages, or 2, or even those who would be just as happy getting on a carnival ride for that matter.

I hope when the time comes I need a newer to me bike (After the '08 Wing having to come home twice in a trailer due to mechanical issues, that might be sooner than later) all options are available to me.

[Robert]

Serk interesting question, I would like to say as long as I have the gas and the brake then we are good

to go, but in cars you don't really have either. New cars you dont control the brakes, steering,

acceleration, heck not even really the ability to start the car. So the good news is motorcycles have a way

to go.

[Robert]

So, you want to change this to a OIL thread?   

Nope been there done that. Was referring to the many different and varied choices people seem to have

along with opinions on what is the best.

[cookiedough]

am not a DCT fan but then again,  is fine for those that prefer as long as on 2 wheels still even with DCT why not go for it...

I agree with SERK the younger under age 40 or so do not go for motorcycles anymore, especially for those under age 30.    UTV's are becoming more and more upscale as well never ever will I blow 25-35K on a new UTV when most just sit with 1-3K miles on them in near new shape being 5-8 years old can get a used one for under half the cost of new.   10 or more years ago ATV's were all over the place with very few UTV's on the trails.  Just the opposite now I would say 9 outta 10 on the trails are UTV's vs. ATV's. 

Cycles are fading out for sure as they become more and more techy, much more expensive, and the younger crowd does not have that type of money to blow as well. 

Disposable income is not around much anymore as the world is becoming too expensive to live comfortably in.  I think in 15 or so more years as the age 50ish or so cyclists fade away,  cycles will be a rare breed seen on the roads.

[Hook#3287]

I've made the analogy before, I'll make it again...

We're at the point, or close to it, where a computer can operate a vehicle far better than any human can.

At what point does riding just become getting on a carnival ride?

(I don't know the answer to that, it's different for each rider. Some would say the Valkyrie is too automatic with not having to advance the spark and all the stuff they had to do 100 years ago.)

I like using all 4 appendages in a symphony of cooperation to ride.

Not denigrating those who only want to use 3 appendages, or 2, or even those who would be just as happy getting on a carnival ride for that matter.

I hope when the time comes I need a newer to me bike (After the '08 Wing having to come home twice in a trailer due to mechanical issues, that might be sooner than later) all options are available to me.

Brian, your right, new bikes can take away the choices a rider makes to operate a bike, if allowed.

But it's the riders choice to allow that, at least on the DCT.  Put her in Manual Mode and shift away.

As far as using all appendages goes, my left foot is the ground finder, so it's actively involved.

Pretty important task also.

[Jersey mike]

My son (29) bought his first bike a couple months ago. A nice little 2022 Royal Enfield 350, fuel injected, chain drive.

He lives in a city setting and while I think it’s a bit small for him (6’2”) he’s getting good experience. Top speed on the bike I think is 70 so it’s a good around town bike. What he moves up to in the future is going to be up to him but I think the biking industry will find what excites newer riders and that just might be the electric versions as well. Maybe not for all day events and real touring but for general transportation and getting around a town or city a plug and go version of a real motorcycle may be more realistic in the future.

In the city he lives, gas scooters are a real big thing as well as some of those upscale E-bicycles, those are pretty zippy and there are work arounds on the speed limiters.

[Hook#3287]

Mike, you pretty much sum it up.

E-bikes and EV's in general may be a good option in urban settings, but rural?  Forget about it.

Then there's the charging issue of E-bikes in a urban area.

People will want to bring them into buildings for charging and security which should not be allowed.