Clutch or transmission?

[Bartman]

Hi Everyone,

I have been searching the boards for a few hours without finding exactly the information that I need. I'm sure it is there, but I can't find it. So I apologize in advance if I'm duplicating a previous post.

Yesterday I decided to jump on the bike for the first time in quite awhile. Got about 5 miles from the house and the clutch began to slip on acceleration. I immediately turned to head back home but only got about halfway there. The slipping got progressively worse until the bike would no longer pull itself. I ended up stranded on the side of the road and while the bike runs fine, it will not move in any gear. The clutch lever travel does not seem to be 100%, but the bike appears to be changing gears. Unfortunately, it just revs. No movement whatsoever. Ended up trailering her home. I haven't been home to begin investigating the problem yet but I was hoping to get some direction and maybe a starting point from those of you who are more experienced with this type of thing than I.

I appreciate any help and will gladly provide any information I can to help you help me.

Thanks,
Bart

[Valker]

Be sure to check the rear end splines. They could have gone out.

[Ratdog]

Any unusual sounds related to the sudden change in the bike?  If so... can you describe them?

[TearlessTom]

Hi Everyone,

The clutch lever travel does not seem to be 100%, but the bike appears to be changing gear.
Thanks,
Bart

This makes me think the clutch over the spines.
Possible a sticky through out bearing?
 Clutch ware typically go out slowly starting with a slipping in high gear under hard acceleration then progress downward. So I don't think the clutch is worn out just not engaging.

Possible something as simple as a faulty or kinked clutch cable which is where I would start looking.
I have seen something similar and it was the cable where it connects to the engine housing was loose
 
however

since this is a hydraulic system I would look for air in the system or dirty fluid.
Tom

[Blackduck]

Will not be air or dirty fluid unless it can block the line and hold pressure on the clutch.
The fault reported is it is slipping , not hard to engage.
If the lever is not coming back fully it maybe holding pressure in the system.
Without holding the lever crack the clutch bleeder and see if there is pressure there.
Don't let any fluid contact your paint work.
If that is OK then it is something in the clutch assembly.
Regards Steve.

[Houdini]

Does the bike have a clunking or ticking sound coming from underneath when in gear with the clutch out? 

[houstone]

The lever only going part way down indicates the riveted dampers have departed the pressure plate and jammed between the plates.  Signature is very similar to mine, which I replaced for about $400 worth of parts from the dealer, NOT including the basket. 
I'll try to find the posts that helped me immensely when I get home.  Send me a note if you want more info.
Jeff

[houstone]

Check out this thread.
http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,6007.0.html

[daytona]

If the lever feels funky or has no play, the return spring could have broken and jammed in the master cyl bore, holding the clutch uncoupled. Open the bleeder, if fluid spirts out? try rolling it in gear, if it won't! a $25.00 kit and your good to go!  

[fstsix]

Thinking the same thing about the lever, was on a ride with the Patriot guard 4 years ago, a friend on his Ultra Harley was messin around and did a wheelie and hit his front brake to slow down it Locked Up!! he went down hard, on my street broke his collar bone and sat in emergency that night with him he was 60 years old, point? i took his bike to investigate and found that the front brake was not releasing after pressure was applied, i kept asking him what happened and he said it just locked up? we replaced the master and it was fixed.

[Jay]

Is it possible for the push rod from the slave cylinder to be stuck?

[Bartman]

Hey guys,
Thanks for all the quick info. Just got home and won't have a chance to look at the bike tonight but let me give what info I can and then I'm going to check out Jeff's link (Thanks Jeff!).

No strange noises noticed. Although, with the Two Bros. it's more difficult for me to pick subtle changes out.

When in gear there is no resistance. The bike rolls just like it's in neutral.

When the bike is running. There is no change in sound, or resistance whether the clutch is in or out.

When it's in gear and I put the stand down it dies. So it appears to be going into gear but not pulling at all. Just revs whenever in gear with the clutch out.

The more I talk about it, the more I feel my back pocket draining. ???

Thanks Again,
Bart

[Mr.BubblesVRCCDS0008]

I stripped the driveshaft coupler out on my bike  once, shifted fine but no go.New coupler and shaft was about $100 and easy to fix. Might try looking at them.

[daytona]

An easy quick way to tell if its fluid locked is, remove the cover ( don't get B fluid on paint) lever in and out slowly U should see a return stream. If not! get the kit and snap ring pliers! Or an Ice pick will do. If you sopp out the fluid U can see if the hole is covered.  Good luck!

[Ricky-D]

Any thing that you do to try and figure out what's happened please remember that being safe is extremely important when the motor is running and the bike is in gear.

You could get a little foolhardy knowing it doesn't want to move while in gear with the motor running.

If you have a lifting bracket that allows you to use a bike jack to lift the bike, I would suggest using that!

If it were me in your situation, I would lift the bike and have it running in gear and look under the rubber universal joint boot and see if anything is turning.

This little inspection will tell you where to continue to look!

I wouldn't do anything before finding out where to look and this step will point you in the correct direction.

***

[daytona]

Post what you found, when you know please. 

[Bartman]

Ok, gentlemen. Please forgive me for going AWOL on this matter. At the time this problem occured I had just opened a bar in addition to my day job and I didn't even take the bike out of the trailer for a week after I got it home. But enough excuses...

When I did take the bike out of the trailer, I started it up and it pulled like there had never been a problem. This made me think that it will be a very difficult diagnosis since it's coming and going. I became frustrated and parked the bike since I didn't really have time to invest in major troubleshooting or the money to spend for a dealer to diagnose it.

Today I came home sick of not being able to ride. I decided to start simple. Opened up the clutch master cylinder and it has ALOT of trash in it. Sludgy crap that brought a tear to my eye. Mostly in the bottom but also up the sides of the inner walls and some on the diaphram. I have very little experience with this kind of thing. How should I proceed? I have a strong feeling that this crap was clogging up the line and creating my problem. But of course it could just be a secondary problem. Anyway, how do i clean this situation up? Can I wipe this crap out and bleed the system til I get 100% clean fluid at the far end? Do I need to replace any parts? What fluid is best? Sorry for all the questions but you guys are my trusted source of info.
I don't have much time to mess with it tonight due to my oldest daughter having a volleyball game and then i have to work at the bar for a while...It's always something...
But again, Thanks for any help you can provide!

[Pete]

Yes remove the fluid, clean up the rest with a Q-tip and bleed the systems until clean fluid is seen.

Use any GOOD quality DOT 4 brake fluid.

[Bartman]

All cleaned out and flushed. Fresh new DOT 4 bled through system. Rode good and hard for about 25 miles at various speeds in various gears. Could not reproduce the problem. I am 99.9% confident that the gunk in the master cylinder and lines was causing the problem. If I can remember how to do post a pic I'll attach one below. This is a medium blade screwdriver with about 10% of the crap on it. Seriously. This was one tenth of what was in the master cylinder.

[Sodbuster]

What did the fluid look like when you bled the lines ??  WOW .... if it were mine I think I would wonder what's in the slave cylinder. I wouldn't be able to sleep at night unless I overhauled the whole system.  Also, if the clutch side was neglected makes you wonder about the brake master cylinder ............ maybe the same scenario ??

[Bartman]

Disconnected before the slave and bled that side first. Some trash, but less than I suspected. Reconnected and bled all the way to the bleeder. Again, very little trash. Bled through til I got beautiful clean fluid. Surprisingly, the brake side is good fluid and has zero of this crap in it. I'm not sure what the previous owner did differently on the clutch side...

[Rocketman]

I had a brake system act this way.  The master cylinder wasn't allowing fluid to return when I released the lever.  Every few actuations of the brake, I had to release pressure at the slave.
Made it a long trip home.
I'm sure that the crap is what your problem was, preventing the pressure from releasing.  It probably bled back slowly, so after a week, was fine, until you pulled the lever again.
Sounds like you got it fixed.

Mark

[sugerbear]

could that crap be dot 4 and dot 5 mixed?? i've never seen anything like that!!!!!!!

[Sodbuster]

could that crap be dot 4 and dot 5 mixed?? i've never seen anything like that!!!!!!!

I think you may be right .........

[Bartman]

I kinda wondered that myself. It wasn't purple at all, but who knows what the chemical reaction would do to it. Maybe that is silicon on my screwdriver???

[Valkpilot]

could that crap be dot 4 and dot 5 mixed?? i've never seen anything like that!!!!!!!

I think it's just old fluid that has absorbed moisture and coagulated. 

We recently worked on a bike that hadn't been well maintained and it was like that too (but not quite as bad.)  I've seen it several times on bikes that simply haven't had the fluid changed often enough.

[Challenger]

I think Valkpilot is correct about the moisture, I changed the fluid in my I/S just two years ago, my clutch started feeling a little goofy last month, after seeing this post I checked mine and had a similar mess, cleaned and replaced fluid, bled out old crap and all is well again, I did ride in the rain a lot this year (maybe not the cause) It was extra hot here and the shiny parts absorbed a lot of heat, probably just condensation.  Weird though, have never changed the fluid in any of my cages.