New with a Hydro-lock

[nuke]

I just bought my first Valkyrie last Sunday 3/6/11 and now after 350 miles of smiles  I have done some serious damage!  I have been searching old post's and tech post's and looks like I did the stupid stunt!  Yep I just kept hitting the starter button till BAM!  Now I am in the process of dismantle my 1999 Interstate. 6774 miles. A new bike! Stupid! thats my name! I pulled the plugs and sure enough the cylinder was full of gas and now the petcock is leaking and will not turn off. Gas just keeps flowing no matter where the setting. So I guess now I pull the tank and address that issue first. Then the starter for kicks but I am sure I broke something. it POPPED really loud. now the starter chatters and spins. I'm sick. I fell in love with the Bike when he rolled it out of the garage. low mileage and clean as a pin. I was drooling! Had to have it. now I broke it. i guess it's time to spend money.  Wife will kill me for breaking her saturday ride. 
Had to vent.  Thanks for the great info here guy's.  I hope to be riding soon!

[Pete]

Condolences on the hydro lock and here's wishing you good luck on the repairs.

[BonS]

Welcome to the board! Terrible circumstance. Of course, it takes both a leaky petcock and a carburetor float that isn't shutting off the fuel properly. With such low mileage in 12 years I'm not surprised that you've got a stuck carburetor (or six). As long as you're doing surgery I hope you'll spend some time here and in the tech archives to learn about and take care of these issues. First up, I'd be checking for rust in the tank, cleaning the carbs and changing out the petcock. A lot of folks here use a Pingle petcock. Good luck and ask any questions that you have. It's rare here that you'll get the stiff-arm and be curtly told that "search is your friend" (even though it is). Welcome.

[gordonv]

Found what you are looking for.

http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,24504.0.html


Of course, you can do a lot of searches for hydro lock, pingle, also solinoid.

Personaly, I would keep the petcock we have, and either add on a fuel solinid shut off, or an electric fuel pump from a Honda VT1100 with a filter. I'm lazy, and do forget to turn of the fuel, either at a short stop or when I get off after riding.

After you get the fuel problem fixed, then you have the gummed up carbs. If you only have 7K on your bike, there was a post a long time ago, maybe last summer, of someone running stright carb cleaner through their carbs, using a hose and catching it as it flushes out the bowl drains, then pouring it back into the carbs. Or something like that.

Later use a full bottle of carb cleaner to 1 or 2 gal of gas, and idle the bike (with a cooling fan) to have it clean out those fuel ports. (Techron, Seafoam, Berrymans B12) I've used Seafoam, and currently have B12 to try out, but haven't started riding again yet.

Like mentioned, check the tank for rust. If you have that, then you can go there later.

[X Ring]

Screw the stock petcock.  Get a Pingel 1311CH from Eastern Performance for $89.95  http://www.easternperformance.com/products.php?product=Pingel-Hex-Chrome-90-Degree-Forward-Petcock-for-Harley  When you shut a Pingel off, you don't have to worry about it.  Most of us who have had problems with that stock POS petcock have gone Pingel and will NEVER go back.

Marty

[tivoklr]

Screw the stock petcock.  Get a Pingel 1311CH from Eastern Performance for $89.95  http://www.easternperformance.com/products.php?product=Pingel-Hex-Chrome-90-Degree-Forward-Petcock-for-Harley  When you shut a Pingel off, you don't have to worry about it.

Yep. I think if you've had the pleasure of disassembling the bike and replacing the idler gear you'd feel the same way. I want to flip a lever, know it's off. Short ride, long ride, no matter.

You're looking at a few nights worth of work between the petcock, the sticky floats (which I ignored s/p pingel), and the repair on the starter clutch assy.

None of this is rocket science though, and you'll have one hell of a handle on how your bike goes together once you're done. It's mostly labor so if you can wrench you'll save bundles. When I hydrolocked my 97 I inquired about having the work done, and the shop I called quoted me around 1600. This was 5 years ago so I'm sure it'd be 2k today. Oh and they were kind enough to tell me they'd only done one before, so I thought, that 1600 bucks isn't buying me much experience...

There are a couple of tools you'll need that most people buy and use once, so when it comes time for the goofy honda tools, try to borrow some.

Good luck!

[Westsider]

+ 1 exacty what x-ring said...you will hear a lot of conteversy about the pingel and so on. these guys know the valk..will only use a pingel myself,on any carbuerated bike .. valks-smooth power eh...all day everyday... looking foward to hear how you get the bike fixed......sounds like you did find a "new" one....

[John Schmidt]

It's always a good idea to have your location listed in the profile that shows next to your name and post. That way if there is someone nearby with experience, they can lend a hand.

[fudgie]

Yep what X-ring said.

[nuke]

Thanks guy's for all the replies, I'm feeling rough today. I had to ride the VFR to work. Now thats not a bad thing I love my Interceptor ( GO HONDA ) but I really was looking forward to riding the Valkyrie everyday for awhile.
I took the starter off today and it looks fine. I looked inside the back of the motor and yep teeth missing off the gear.
So now I'm thinking.
My guess would be $2000 or more for a shop job at the local bike shop.
I do this myself and work on it 3 hours a day and Saturday's. Time I don't really have
I'm searching the old posts looking at what kind of time it take's to do this in my garage.
I'm going to call the shop and get a ball park estimate. Probably hurt my feelings. $60 an hour labor rates.
More to come on the newbie hydro-lock later ( I'm in Chattanooga Tennessee)
Again thanks and God Bless 

[Mr.BubblesVRCCDS0008]

Sorry to hear of your problems but your in an area that is full of valk people with years of knowledge at your service. I run a stock petcock  that I converted to a manual valve. I've been running it this way for over 4 years now without any problems. I gonna wire in an electric shut off as soon as I take the bike down for some well need work. I have 128 thousand miles on my bike, so fix your setback and take her for a ride. Welcome to the club.

[GOOSE]

nuke.....before you commit to letting a dealer do a hack job on your almost new "fat lady", ask some of these people on this board if they could give you a hand with this hydro-lock job in front of you.  as has already been posted......most of these dealerships do not have any mechanics that have valkyrie experience,  he$$, most of them have no experience.  if you are bound and determined to pay a stealer-shop to repair it, why don't you offer to pay one of the people close by to come over and help (teach) you do it.  when it's all said and done, i'll guarantee you will have a job that is better than any stealer shop will do for you.  good luck.

[Grumpy]

I have redone a few, where are you located ?

[Brad]

I have redone a few, where are you located ?

More to come on the newbie hydro-lock later ( I'm in Chattanooga Tennessee)
Again thanks and God Bless 

$60 per hour if your lucky.  The dealer here charges $90

[Grumpy]

A little far for wrenching parts. I am in Tampa, fl.  Sorry

[Printer Mike]

Am I understanding correctly... The stock valve can flood the engine even if it's turned "off"?

[roboto65]

Am I understanding correctly... The stock valve can flood the engine even if it's turned "off"?

If the valve goes bad and ALSO if you have a stuck float valve those 2 things will cause the Lock or it can fill the I think number 6 by way of the tube that runs down for vacumm to open the valve.

Now if your floats are not sticking then a bad valve will not flood the cylinders like wise if your valve is good and the float sticks you are still good but combine them and you have mayhem...

[Red Diamond]

If the valve goes bad and ALSO if you have a stuck float valve those 2 things will cause the Lock or it can fill the I think number 6 by way of the tube that runs down for vacumm to open the valve.

If a float valve sticks in the open position, on a carb, over a cyclinder that is in the intake stroke (open to take in fuel), fuel can flow to that cyclinder and cause a hydro-lock. It is not necessarily the No. 6, which ever one is open when the engine is shut down. The No. 6 vacuum tube has a seperate diaphragm, which if in good condition, will not let gas past it. The petcock has two diaphragms, one for gas side and one for vacuum side.

[Blackduck]

Printer Mike, Yes it can pass fuel. If there is any side loading from the position selector this can hold the valve off its seat. If the diaphragm is not shutting off correctly then fuel can flow through the valve even in the off position. It does not take much side loading for this to happen.
Additionally have personally found the diaphragm being held open by vacuum. Found the very fine bleed hole in the petcock blocked.
Think this is the possible cause of a lot of the "bad" petcocks
Cheers Steve

[roboto65]

Ooops yeah forgot about the valve being open also. I mean it happens but dang the planets have to align just right for it to happen LOL heck mine has a new rearcase from the PO having the dreaded Hydrolock that happens also

Also make sure they check for cracks in the rear case..

[Mr.BubblesVRCCDS0008]

Also a hole in the diaphram can allow fuel to travel down vaccum line into cylinder as the vaccum port is below the carb so even if the carb float is working you can still get number 6 cylinder full of fuel. There is a small weep hole on the bottom of the petcock that should leak fuel before this can happen.

[elraque]

From the voice of sad experience:

To have a shop do it here (Rural Utah) was around $1000 (cost me about $1200, but I had them do some other stuff while they were in there). The biggest cost (and hassle) was that they had to remove and replace the engine. The parts were somewhere around $130 if I remember correctly.

Condolences, from a new rider that got hit with the same affliction about 2 months after I bought my thick chick (last summer).

[John U.]

Whether you change to a Pingle or not, a highflow rate fuel filter is good insurance. I have a bike that sat for a while and the tank was rusty. That rust can find it's way past the petcock screen. If you don't deal with the rust, carb problems will become a way of life.
Also, you need to get in the habit of using Marine Stabil with every tank, unless you'll be using it up right away. Ethanol can and will clog things up, especially the slow jets, in just a few days unless stabilized.
Well, it was a rough intro into Valk world but this too shall pass. I thinl it's an excellent idea to get a fellow Valker to help you. You will be taking a big chance at great expense with a dealer. Even if they have good intentions, they just don't have people experienced with valkyries.
Good luck, I'd help but I'm 700 miles away.

[nuke]

Well I see more condolences on the hydro-lock and they are much appreciated I didn't get to wrench any today got tagged at work last night with emergency 12 hour shift  but thats more money for the repairs. I talked to the local bike shop and he has done quite a few of these he say's. He knew exactly what happened and described the damage before I said anything. Parts and Labor ball park was $1000.  I have job that gets very busy in the spring and fall so right now is not a good time for me to start a repair job I've never done before so looks like I'm going with the local bike shop and generate some prosperity in my neighborhood. The tank is full of rust I'm sure so theirs quite a few issue's that need to be looked at before as you say " The Fat Chick " rides again

[Big Rig]

With all this talk of Hydro-lock...I have a question. This morning I could smell gas fumes in the garage near the bike, I have ordered a pingel this week and plan to replace it, I know at least the gaskets are bad on the OEM petcock. Without H-L ing my motor, what do I check for to be shore I do not have a problem? I will be removing the tank this evening when I have time.

[Blackduck]

If you think it may have fuel in the cylinders, pull the sparkplugs then turn it over, just keep the leads away from the sparkplug holes,don't need a fire. If there is any fuel it will spray out. Could cover the holes with a rag to catch any fuel.
Cheers Steve

[Mr.BubblesVRCCDS0008]

A good way to check for hydro lock is just put her in 3rd  or 4th gear key off and roll the bike back and forth if it turns over no problem if it is locked the tire will slide and no damage done.

[Big Rig]

I will have to try the 3rd and 4th gear first and then the plugs...what is a few extra minutes. 

Better safe then sorry. Thanks guys.

[Mildew]

That's the way I've been doing it. My oem petcock wasn't doing its job so I took it apart and slipped a piece of gasket in there. It worked fine for a while but I was never confident with it because it wasn't held there with noth but the pressure from the screws. I filled my tank one day and left the bike in the garage. A few hours latre I smelled gas and saw a big puddle of gas under the bike. I saw the gasket was very brittle and it had slipped enough to let the fuel go out the weep hole. I turned the key on and bumped the starter slightly and felt the starter stop the I pushed it again and nothing. (Almost like starting with the side stand down) I removed all six plugs and rolled the bike forward (it rolled real easy without the plugs) I heard a big splat and couldn't tell which hole was filled but it onlt took one little rotation to clear it. I then jb welded the holes and cut the center out of the diaphram and permatexed the gaskets to hold  them while reasembling and so far no more problem

[Blackduck]

Just remember bypassing or deleting the diaphragm removes 1 of your 2 shutoffs.
Even if you remember to turn the valve off every time you stop there is no guarantee you are actually shutting of the valve. These valves will lift of their seats if there is any side load on the valve selector stem. Personaly I have no problems with the standard valve but if you are worried then Pingle is most probally the better choice as it does not have side load issues with the selector.
The diaphragm really has no bearing on hydrolocks, has more to do with a failure and not passing fuel.
I have not heard of any diaphragm failures here in Aus, maybe our fuel is different?
A question, how many Magnas has anyone heard of with hydrolocks?

[Willow]

A question, how many Magnas has anyone heard of with hydrolocks?

The hydrolock issue with the Valkyrie is not just with the gravity fed fuel and the ability of the engine to hydrolock, but especially that the starter is strong enough to break teeth when the engine won't turn.

I've not heard of any Magna hydrolock damages.

[Mildew]

I sat my tank on a chair and turned petcock of and on. Sometimes the fuel never shut off when I put it in the off position. When I gave it a up and down wiggle it shut of every time. I don't want to deal with the hydrolock issue so I roll the bike forward in gear and keep a wrench with me to play it safe. Seems to be doing fine and it seems to run better than ever. I used to get a little sputter before the manuel valve. I can't stay off of it.

[nuke]

I turned my Valkyrie over to the dealer today  He says a couple weeks, I'm working alot so thats fine. I have another bike to ride but I sure did fall hard for the "Fat Chick"  I'm hoping 2 or 3 weeks, the tank is pretty rusty inside so something has to be done about that. I keep hearing about something to coat the inside of the tank?  ??? I got time to research that one. I'm going with a new pingel valve, I just don't trust the old valve. It will not shut off, no matter what position you turn it too. Maybe I'll be riding it by June. Again thanks for all the help. 

[John U.]

There are several gas tank sealers on the market. For my money an epoxy has better adhesion and will stand up to fuel and fuel system cleaners better. Some of the other products such as Kreeme have failed to stay put which creates a real mess.
Check out Caswell Plating. I coated a rusty tank with their epoxy 4 years ago, worked well and I've had no problems since. Read their info on tank prep, FOLLOW INSTRUCTIONS TO THE LETTER.

http://www.caswellplating.com/aids/epoxygas.htm

[Tropic traveler]

I've taken 2 Valkyrie gas tanks, several car gas tanks, & a Kawasaki generator tank to my local radiator shop. He had the means to clean it & used a red tint kind of sealer that has held up very well over the years.
Check around with some of your local radiator shops & see if they can do something similar.  

Here's a pic of a cleaned & coated Valk tank through the filler opening.

[nuke]

Motor is out, housing is broken just like the photo's on the other thread.  gears are missing teeth  what a mess!   has anyone tried welding the housing? I got a 20 year aluminium welder who say's he can weld it better than new. I'm going to let him try it, buy the gears then back together she goes. New pingle valve, I don't trust the OEM valve. Coating inside the gas tank with caswell epoxy. Looks like about $1100. ouch!!!. I believe the info from this site has saved me some bucks now and in the future, I know what to watchout for next time.
thanks guy's 

[Valk_ca]

Screw the stock petcock.  Get a Pingel 1311CH from Eastern Performance for $89.95  http://www.easternperformance.com/products.php?product=Pingel-Hex-Chrome-90-Degree-Forward-Petcock-for-Harley  When you shut a Pingel off, you don't have to worry about it.  Most of us who have had problems with that stock POS petcock have gone Pingel and will NEVER go back.

Marty

Is that Pingel (listed as a 1311CR on the site)a direct fit or do you have to make some modifications? I'm assuming vac lines have to be sealed.

[GOOSE]

1311CH ....non-vacuum.