pingel petcock

[doubleminded]

I want to buy one of these.searching on the web dont work,direct line parts dont work,dennis kirk dont work.grag specialties has one for 75.dont know if i need which one of theirs,but want a pingel anyway.where do you all buy your stuff?

[SANDMAN5]

Got mine from HDL. Not sure why you're having trouble.
Must be computer or IP trouble.

[six2go #152]

I bought mine directly from Pingel. The selection they have will make your head spin.

[Disco]

I want to buy one of these.

Why?   ???

[BeeSharp]

I was having a petcock issue where it would only draw about 3 gallons out of the tank and then it would  starve for fuel. I thought about going with the Pingel, but just rebuilt the OEM since it worked fine for 13 years.

[doubleminded]

ok,where do yall buy you rebuild kits?I have gas mileage problems and several people have toldme many things to do and one of them is to replace or rebuild the petcock.

[doubleminded]

i found the repair kit for 28.91 and pingel for 102.95.i like 28 better.just what would i be replacing that would help mileage?A o ring,or what exactly?

[Disco]

Which repair kit?  Honda Cover Set, or aftermarket?  $28 for a Cover Set sounds like a good deal.  $28 for the non-metallic replacement parts sounds high.  Don't forget the Screen Set if you're going to rebuild the petcock.  Might as well get an air filter, too - the tank will be off.  If you don't need it, you'll have it for next time.

If you'll search this Texas Board for the December 2009 Wrench Party, there is a list of parts and part numbers that might be helpful to you.  

[Westsider]

I want to buy one of these.

Why?   ???

for piece of mind for one thing, and it would be fair to say if you ever have a fuel flow issue, its 99.9% that you can eliminate the petcock as a problem. the oem valve is a monkey motion vacume operated cool gizmo for not having to turn your fuel off , and the first thing everyone points to when starving for gas,,or leaking gass past the valve.....pass more gas...with a pingle...it is a quality valve. and you could change it out a lot faster than "overhauling " that oem.. my.02 and worth every cent... ..now rainmaker get busy..

[Disco]

the oem valve is a monkey motion vacume operated cool gizmo for not having to turn your fuel off ,

With all due respect (reference to Ricky Bobby), Yep, those Honda engineers are idiots.    

I'm not at all knocking Pingel's quality products.  If you want a Pingel, get a Pingel.  Just be sure it's because you want one, not need one.  My observations of the entire oem petcock versus pingel discussion are:
1. If you have always turned your fuel off at a stop, the transition from oem to Pingel is seamless.  But is it necessary, or only a personal preference?  I believe it's only a preference but is often described as an upgrade.
2. If you have never learned to turn your fuel off at a stop (or don't do it 100% of the time, or just never bothered) and you install a Pingel manual valve, you are eliminating one fail safe between you and the dreaded hydrolock.  Unless turned off, the Pingel will drain fuel to the carburetors - the last remaining fail safe.
3. If you maintain your oem petcock and leave your fuel on at a stop, it is highly unlikely that you are asking for trouble.
4. If you don't maintain your oem petcock and leave your fuel on at a stop, you need two bad things to happen simultaneously to set up the dreaded hydrolock.  I believe this has been well-documented to be rare.  Obviously, if hydrolock happens, it can be very bad.  However, a significant portion of those unfortunate enough to have encountered hydrolock have caught it in time to avoid damage.  (The methods for clearing the hydrolock can be found by searching the Tech Board.)  
5. If you don't mind rebuilding your oem petcock regularly, or simply enjoy knowing that its vacuum operation is functioning properly, you can rebuild it and replace the Screen Set several times for the cost of a Pingel.
6. If you are dead-set on having a manual fuel valve, you can easily convert the oem petcock to manual with a piece of gasket material.  

YMMV

Now that that's settled, let's talk about oil.  

(edited to correct numbering)

[Gear Jammer]

the oem valve is a monkey motion vacume operated cool gizmo for not having to turn your fuel off ,

Now that that's settled, let's talk about oil.  

Can we talk about darkside tires after that,, huh, can we please,,can we ?     I mean NMS tires,,,

[hotglue #43]

Thank goodness no one wants to talk :politics, religion, or guns.....

100% corn oil in my bike!!!!!!  I can always distill it later and make fuel. Should I make 87, 89 or 92 octane????

[Houdini]

i found the repair kit for 28.91

You can get two of the petcock rebuild kits here for $28.  I bought two and keep a spare in my saddlebag for emergencies.  I know there are Pingel owners out there that love them, I'm not one of them and I'm pretty sure Disco isn't either.  Just rebuild yours and stick the spare in your saddlebag or toolbox.

http://www.oldbikebarn.com/Home?search=Honda+Petcock+Kit+GL1500+Valkyrie

[Valkpilot]

the oem valve is a monkey motion vacume operated cool gizmo for not having to turn your fuel off ,

With all due respect (reference to Ricky Bobby), Yep, those Honda engineers are idiots.      

I'm not at all knocking Pingel's quality products.  If you want a Pingel, get a Pingel.  Just be sure it's because you want one, not need one.  My observations of the entire oem petcock versus pingel discussion are:
1. If you have always turned your fuel off at a stop, the transition from oem to Pingel is seamless.  But is it necessary, or only a personal preference?  I believe it's only a preference but is often described as an upgrade.
2. If you have never learned to turn your fuel off at a stop (or don't do it 100% of the time, or just never bothered) and you install a Pingel manual valve, you are eliminating one fail safe between you and the dreaded hydrolock.  Unless turned off, the Pingel will drain fuel to the carburetors - the last remaining fail safe.
3. If you maintain your oem petcock and leave your fuel on at a stop, it is highly unlikely that you are asking for trouble.
4. If you don't maintain your oem petcock and leave your fuel on at a stop, you need two bad things to happen simultaneously to set up the dreaded hydrolock.  I believe this has been well-documented to be rare.  Obviously, if hydrolock happens, it can be very bad.  However, a significant portion of those unfortunate enough to have encountered hydrolock have caught it in time to avoid damage.  (The methods for clearing the hydrolock can be found by searching the Tech Board.)   
5. If you don't mind rebuilding your oem petcock regularly, or simply enjoy knowing that its vacuum operation is functioning properly, you can rebuild it and replace the Screen Set several times for the cost of a Pingel.
7. If you are dead-set on having a manual fuel valve, you can easily convert the oem petcock to manual with a piece of gasket material. 

YMMV

Now that that's settled, let's talk about oil.   

Except for the oil discussion part, I'm with Disco on this one.

The OEM petcock has two fail-safes.  One is the vacuum diagphram operation: Engine not on, fuel no flow.  The other is that it is a positive ball-detent shut off system. You can feel it click into place in each position.  Not true of the Pingel, I believe.  So, clicked into 'off', fuel no flow.

Regular maintainance of the diagphram insures that you won't have fuel-flow issues, one of the symptoms of which is low MPG.

What about hydrolock?  This is a term often misused, I believe.  It is supposed to describe a condition where a cylinder has been filled with liquid whose inability to be compressed effectively siezes the engine, resulting in damage to starter gears and worse.

For fuel to get in a cylinder when the engine is not running, the OEM petcock must be 'on' AND the diagphram faulty AND either a carb float must be stuck or weak so that fuel can get past it.   But, fuel in a cylinder is not the same as hydrolock.  For true hydrolock to occur, the cylinder in question must be on the compression stroke as you engage the starter.

So, considering these things, if you turn the OEM petcock valve to 'off' consistently, and you maintain the diagphram by rebuilding it at intervals, your chances of hydrolock are practically nil, zilch, zero.

My OEM petcock went 12 years and 66,000 miles before it failed. Not bad for a maintenance part, IMHO, and worth the little bit of trouble to keep all its advantages.

[BeeSharp]

i found the repair kit for 28.91 and pingel for 102.95.i like 28 better.just what would i be replacing that would help mileage?A o ring,or what exactly?

I don't think there's anything in a petcock rebuild that would affect mileage. Disco makes a good point to change the air filter. That could be the cause of the fuel mileage issue. I talked to my neighbor (aka PO Ron) and he remembers changing the air filter in one of his Valks, but he doesn't remember which one.

I know the petcock was tested a couple years ago when we were trouble shooting a hydrolocking issue on that bike and the carbs were cleaned and cut off valves thoroughly checked. As a side note the hydrolocking issue was actually a bad head gasket the was allowing antifreeze to leak into the back left cylinder. The gaskets in the petcock do go bad, so rebuilding it is good preventive maintenance.

I talked to Ron tonight and he always got 30-33 mpg on that bike for general cruising, As several have noted here, as the fun factor goes up mpg goes down and really hard riding can drop mpg to the low 20's. He mentioned to check the rotors carefully (HOT) to see if one of the calipers might be dragging and decreasing mileage.

[Valkpilot]

I don't think there's anything in a petcock rebuild that would affect mileage.

Actually, there is.  To quote Daniel Meyer in this thread: http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,27755.0.html

Kind of counter-intuitive ain't it?

But it does...failing vacuum diaphragm restricts gas flow.

Not enough gas getting to all the carbs, throttle open more, carbs that ARE getting enough gas just dumping it down the cylinders, others running lean. PLUS the vacuum leak.

Seems strange that reduced gas flow would do it, but one of the first symptoms of a failed diaphragm in the petcock is reduced mileage. 

[Westsider]

Can we talk about darkside tires after that,, huh, can we please,,can we ?     I mean NMS tires,,,

  yeah. that should about cover it..   regaurdless hope everybodys ready to ride..cooler wx. has to be on the way...right

[RainMaker]

I want to buy one of these.

Why?   ???

 and you could change it out a lot faster than "overhauling " that oem.. my.02 and worth every cent... ..now rainmaker get busy..

Sorry about the lack of rain.  I'm trying.

But you are wrong about the time it takes to overhaul the stock petcock.  I have done it 3 times now (2 different bikes) and have it down to about 15 minutes doing the actual rebuild and less than an hour for the job from pulling the tank to having it back on the bike fastened down.  I don't see how you could pull the OEM petcock and re-plumb in the pingel faster.

And I agree with Disco on everything else.  This is a low percentage failure.  To me, this is a well thought out design. Like other devices, it will wear out.  Maintain it and all is well.

We're up to .04 cents now.

[Disco]

Gear Jammer brings up the excellent point that a Dan-Marc solenoid fuel shut-off makes a great replacement/additional fail safe.   

Thank you for the link, Houdini!      I put the spare you got me in john from Tyler's '98 yellow & cream Tourer (oem, +/- 13 years old and 60,000 miles or thereabouts, never failed...) and he gave me a twenty instead of sending me a replacement kit.  Gotta order one just to have in the ol' saddlebag.  And you're right.  I run an oem vacuum-operated petcock (even though I'm desmogged) on my 2000.  It was rebuilt in December '09 at 19,933 miles because it was 10 years 7 months old.

Great additional detail about the positive detent and third simultaneous condition required to result in actual hydrolock, Valkpilot.  Can we talk about oil now?   

It's great to know the ownership history of Doubleminded's bike.  Thanks for taking the time to contact the PO and providing the info, Jim.  And, good point about the right wrist effect...     

Now that you mention it, Westsider, I've grown to rely on the accuracy of the indicated speed on my Garmin instead of the oem speedo.    



 

[Disco]

Concurrent Pingel discussion on the Tech Board.

[BnB Tom]

Now that you mention it, Westsider, I've grown to rely on the accuracy of the indicated speed on my Garmin instead of the oem speedo.    

     .. now isn't that interesting (besides the YMMV?).   Since, last I heard from you regarding the use of the Garmin as a speedometer, you were opposed due to the 'lag' time of .32712  seconds (or some such nonsense) of getting the info from the satelites to your GPS!!?? 

[Valkpilot]

Concurrent Pingel discussion on the Tech Board.

There's always a concurrent Pingel discussion on the Tech Board.

[RainMaker]

Concurrent Pingel discussion on the Tech Board.

There's always a concurrent Pingel discussion on the Tech Board.

+1

[doubleminded]

You guys are smarter than i am about this.thats why i posted.so after all the good input,i am going to rebuild the petcock while i have the tank off replacing the air filter.while i was recently in the dealer dealing with their screwup on  my battery,the kid there asked if i wanted to have a complete service done.change fluids,check this and that,all for only $450.00.I said does that include changing the air filter?he said yes it does.I said ok,i have only put about 1000 miles on the bike since i bought it from you,so would a complete servicing be needed again already?He said no,i guess it wouldnt.So i asked,does that mean you all changed the air filter?He said no,probably not.I doubt anything was done except put a for sale sign on it.Thats why i come here.to ask and find out.I usually do all nonwarranty work myself,but this bike is new to me so the experts are my source,not the dealer.

[RainMaker]

You guys are smarter than i am about this.thats why i posted.so after all the good input,i am going to rebuild the petcock while i have the tank off replacing the air filter.while i was recently in the dealer dealing with their screwup on  my battery,the kid there asked if i wanted to have a complete service done.change fluids,check this and that,all for only $450.00.I said does that include changing the air filter?he said yes it does.I said ok,i have only put about 1000 miles on the bike since i bought it from you,so would a complete servicing be needed again already?He said no,i guess it wouldnt.So i asked,does that mean you all changed the air filter?He said no,probably not.I doubt anything was done except put a for sale sign on it.Thats why i come here.to ask and find out.I usually do all nonwarranty work myself,but this bike is new to me so the experts are my source,not the dealer.

Ask Houdini about the service the dealer did on his Interstate prior to his purchasing it.  When he pulled the rear drive at a wrench party (at his house) the red dust was everywhere - but no grease was in sight.  If the bike is running and rideable, then they wash it, change the oil, air up and put armor-all on the tires and that is considered "service".  And this was a dealer most of us consider a good one.

For most of us, the Valk is not the primary means of transportation.  So taking time to maintain the bike doesn't normally keep you from getting to and from work or other obligations.  It just cuts down on the fun.  I recently spent 6 weeks with my Interstate down while I tinkered with it an hour or so a day or whenever I could. 

Fluid changes aren't hard.  Brake and clutch fluid changes are easier with 2 people, though, and I recommend you do that at wrench parties.  I go to wrench parties to learn and to try repairs that I would otherwise be hesitant to tackle as there are usually some there that have already done what I am attempting and will give pointers, shortcuts or take over if I totally screw up. The "football" has a lot of special tools you might only use once or twice in the life of your bike so it saves a lot of money. Plus wrench parties are fun "guy" events.  Tim "the Tool Man" Taylor would be right at home with this group.

One other thing - I use a simple method to keep up with maintenance items.  I use multiples of 5K on the odometer.

Before every ride of greater than 10 miles - check air pressure, oil and coolant level. 

Every 5K - oil change, check fluids, check brake pads.

Every 10K - pull the rear wheel, relube spines, replace o-rings, change final drive oil, check dampers, wash bike (Daniel Meyer does not recommend a bike wash at such close intervals, by the way).

Every 20K - check valve clearance, spark plugs.

The only item that doesn't fit into this is the front tire, which has it's own schedule.  When it's near wear bars, I have one ready to go and replace it, checking the bearings while I'm there.  I also change the brake pads in front when I change the tire as I use the front brake a lot and it's much easier to do while the wheel is out of the forks.

If you are like me, you will find the time you spend working on your Valk to be as relaxing as actually riding it.  You are doing something other than your normal activities and that in itself is a mini-vacation.  At least it is for me.

RainMaker

[Westsider]

re-plumb in the pingel faster?....no plumbing required...remove the old petcock,old screen/ install new petcock and new screen , install  new band clamp on fuel line, plug the # 6 vacume port, bam,.
much faster,,,depending on what kind of motor oil you use..(and you only have to do it one time)  


opps,,,another .02    

my bad....fuel valves were on my  "dont post replies to" list. will try to get it together.. ...

[Houdini]

If the bike is running and rideable, then they wash it, change the oil, air up and put armor-all on the tires and that is considered "service"

Excuse me!  They did not change my oil, it was a quart low when I checked it.  Other than that, they didn't perform any service on my bike.  This was after being told the bike was fully serviced and ready to ride; three days and 500 miles later I decided to check her out and found all fluids low and filthy.  I'd say most of the fluids hadn't been changed at all and some, like oil, hadn't been changed in over 20K.  When I talked to "them" I was told that yes they had serviced the bike and had serviced it since the day they sold it to the PO.

I was not impressed.

[doubleminded]

thanks ya'll.Appreciate it.

[Daniel Meyer]

Concurrent Pingel discussion on the Tech Board.

There's always a concurrent Pingel discussion on the Tech Board.

 

Yep, right next to the perpetual car tire thread!