why I like Texas.......

[musclehead]

I'm convinced that if i have to move from Florida I'll go to Texas!

earlier this year in Fort Worth a police officer was approaching a black mercedes in a known drug area. the driver threw it into gear as the cop got close and tried to run him down, the officer drew his weapon and fired a couple of rounds at the car before diving aside. a passing armed pedestrian civilian saw the officer down and drew his weapon and fired on the car speeding away, thinking the occupants had fired on the officer. later the passenger was admitted to a local hospital for gun shot wounds, I didn't hear what happened (if anything) to the driver.  the Fort Worth police dept commended the civilian. ( I wonder what would have happened in another state, say Illinois?)


recently a scumbag was stealing copper wire out of the back of a pick up truck in I think Lubbock TX. the owner of the truck and wire shot the perp inflicting a sucking chest wound. at the time of the report the shooter had NOT been charged with anything. ( I don't believe in the use of deadly force in the protection of your property, but it might be a long time before anyone steals in his neighborhood!)

speaking of scumbags, two of them were trying to hold up a dennys in San Antonio recently when an armed customer got up from his dinner and fired on them. no word if they were hit but they fled the scene and the diner went back to finish his dinner.

I'd fit right in  as soon as I get my CCW

[The Anvil]

Yeah, personally I try to live in places where bullets aren't whizzing by. I mean if that's your criteria then you could move somewhere else with high crime that doesn't have the worst schools in the country (related to one another perhaps?) but you might find the abundance of supersonic projectiles in-flight to be overrated.

 

[YoungPUP]

I'm not a fan of incoming projectiles, but I like having the legal ability to return projectiles iof so inclined.

[Serk]

Shopping in Texas?	powered by Aeva

Lived in Texas the VAST majority of my life (Other than a 2.5 years stint in the UK when I was small and a few months in Africa for work), and been carrying for about as long as I legally can (And sometimes before I legally could.)

Shootouts I've seen - 0
Guns I've seen drawn in commission of a crime - 0
Times I've had to duck flying bullets - 0
Education I received from the public schools here - Excellent, if I do say so myself
Crimes I've stopped from happening by simply producing my weapon - 2

(Yeah, I know they tell you you shouldn't draw your weapon until/unless you're ready to use it, but I disagree, both of the situations where I let it be known I was armed were escalating quickly, and the mere knowledge by the other parties that I was armed IMMEDIATELY de-escalated and ended the confrontation.)

[The Anvil]

(Yeah, I know they tell you you shouldn't draw your weapon until/unless you're ready to use it, but I disagree, both of the situations where I let it be known I was armed were escalating quickly, and the mere knowledge by the other parties that I was armed IMMEDIATELY de-escalated and ended the confrontation.)

Were you prepared to use it if you were forced to? There's also a difference between drawing down and "letting it be known" that you're armed.

Serk, you can get a good education in any state. But the fact is that Texas consistently ranks among the worst school systems in the country.

[Buda]

Is that really how you want it....random yahoo's shootin at everyone they think is committing a crime.
Stray bullets flyin around to hit your loved ones.  Shooting at a fleeing car....in a restaurant?

[musclehead]

I'm through Texas ALOT, so far I've never had to duck a bullet.

since I'm always unarmed I've never needed to return fire  so call it luck

My kid hasn't been in school for almost a decade.

[musclehead]

Is that really how you want it....random yahoo's shootin at everyone they think is committing a crime.
Stray bullets flyin around to hit your loved ones.  Shooting at a fleeing car....in a restaurant?

no they were shooting at people actually comitting crimes, once again I don't advocate deadly force to protect your property. I assume gun control was used, you know both hands 

no I just want the ability to return fire and not get a pair of shiny bracelets and a free ride down town

[Serk]

And yes, I was fully prepared to use my weapon if the confrontation hadn't immediately stopped escalating, otherwise I never would have been carrying in the first place.

I DO believe in the right to use lethal force to defend property, but luckily for me I live in a state who's laws also agree with the use of deadly force in defense of property. 

(And, in fact, you can use lethal force in Texas to stop a bunch of kids from toilet papering your house at midnight...)

Deadly Force in Defense of Person

"A person is justified in using deadly force against another if he would be justified in using force under Section 9.31 of the statute when and to the degree he reasonable believes that deadly force is immediately necessary to protect himself against the other's use or attempted use of unlawful deadly force, if a reasonable person in the same situation would have not retreated. The use of deadly force is also justified to prevent the other's imminent commission of aggravated kidnapping, murder, rape or robbery."

Defense of Another Person

"A person is justified in using deadly force against an attacker to protect another person if he would be justified to use it to protect himself against an unlawful attack and he reasonably believes his intervention is immediately necessary to protect the other person from serious injury or death."

Deadly Force to Protect Property

"A person is justified in using deadly force against another to protect his property to the degree he reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to prevent the other's imminent commission of arson, burglary, robbery, theft during the nighttime or criminal mischief during the nighttime, and he reasonably believes that the property cannot be protected by any other means."

 "A person is justified in using deadly force against another to pervent the other who is fleeing after committing burglary, robbery, or theft during the nighttime, from escaping with the property and he reasonable believes that the property cannot be recovered by any other means; or, the use of force other than deadly force to protect or recover the property would expose him or another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury. (Nighttime is defined as the period 30 minutes after sunset until 30 minutes before sunrise.)"

Protection of the Property of Others

"A person is justified in using force or deadly force against another to protect the property of a third person if he reasonably believes he would be justified to use similar force to protect his own property, and he reasonably believes that there existed an attempt or actual commission of the crime of theft or criminal mischief."

"Also, a person is justified in using force or deadly force if he reasonably believes that the third person has requested his protection of property; or he has a legal duty to protect the property; or the third person whose property he is protecting is his spouse, parent or child."

[The Anvil]

And yes, I was fully prepared to use my weapon if the confrontation hadn't immediately stopped escalating, otherwise I never would have been carrying in the first place.

Making the decision to carry a gun doesn't mean you're prepared to use it though. I mean in your case, sure. But lots of people carry guns and are more likely to end up on the other end of it than they are doing the right thing when the situation presents itself.

I don't personally think that you should be able to shoot someone for stealing property. That's beyond the pale. In your home? Shoot em twice. Taking your bicycle? They might deserve to die for any number of reasons but bicycle theft in and of itself should not be a death sentence. That's just stupid, backwards and barbaric.

[Daniel Meyer]

In your home? Shoot em twice.

What's the difference between in your home or in your yard? Just stealing stuff right? Shouldn't get shot for just stealing stuff...

(always double taps)

[Gear Jammer]

hmm, Illinois. 

[Gear Jammer]

And yes, I was fully prepared to use my weapon if the confrontation hadn't immediately stopped escalating, otherwise I never would have been carrying in the first place.

Making the decision to carry a gun doesn't mean you're prepared to use it though. I mean in your case, sure. But lots of people carry guns and are more likely to end up on the other end of it than they are doing the right thing when the situation presents itself.

I don't personally think that you should be able to shoot someone for stealing property. That's beyond the pale. In your home? Shoot em twice. Taking your bicycle? They might deserve to die for any number of reasons but bicycle theft in and of itself should not be a death sentence. That's just stupid, backwards and barbaric.

Then don't come down here and steal anything, and you probably won't get shot 

[The Anvil]

In your home? Shoot em twice.

What's the difference between in your home or in your yard? Just stealing stuff right? Shouldn't get shot for just stealing stuff...

(always double taps)

Because IN your home you shoot before you bother asking what they're doing there. It's safe to assume that if they've entered your home without invitation then they're prepared to do anything. On your "property" but outside your home can be situational. Are they armed? Fine, shoot em. Are they in the process of trying to get in? Shoot em. Is it a teenager taking off with your weedwhacker from the tool shed fifty feet across the yard? Well that punishment might be a bit extreme. It seems kind of obvious to me but I guess it's not to some people.

BTW, people just LOVE this wild-wild west macho-bullshit until their own child does something stupid (like maybe stealing a pumpkin off a porch on Halloween) and gets shot by some redneck looking for a trophy to hang on his wall. There but for the grace of God. Hopefully it won't be your child in a box because of petty theft or a prank gone wrong. Serk, cradle your babies and think about that for a minute.

[Serk]

You're confusing stopping a crime in progress with punishment after the fact.

Use of lethal force during the commission of a crime is not punishment, it's using lethal force to stop a crime from being committed...

And if one of my kids steals something and gets shot in the act, I'll be mad as hell... At them for stealing, and at myself for failing as a parent.

Don't wanna get shot when you're stealing stuff? Then please stay where you are. Simple as that... Ya'll have your way of doing things, we have our way. It works for us.

[fudgie]

You're confusing stopping a crime in progress with punishment after the fact.

Use of lethal force during the commission of a crime is not punishment, it's using lethal force to stop a crime from being committed...

And if one of my kids steals something and gets shot in the act, I'll be mad as hell... At them for stealing, and at myself for failing as a parent.

Don't wanna get shot when you're stealing stuff? Then please stay where you are. Simple as that... Ya'll have your way of doing things, we have our way. It works for us.

 

[RoadKill]

My dad told me once that there were some people out there just like him. "If you steal from a store,hope the manager isn't one of those people.Steal from a stranger and you have know way of knowing if they are just like me,or if they have a friend...JUST LIKE ME ! Now,do you know any one dumb enough to steal from a crazy sumonabatch like me? ......Steal anything any where any time and I find out about it,you would have had a better chance of stealing from ME!"

I think he would have shot anyone stealing from him and if I got caught stealing from anyone he would have tortured me before he shot me....TWICE !!  !    Concealed carry was not legal there then,but there were many others out there 'just like him' !   

[jrb]

All this talk about shooting someone is just talk, but when you actually take someone's life things change. My father took a mans life in a totally justifiable situation, and I can tell you he never got over it. He carried this burden till his own passing, nearly forty years. If someone on this board can speak to this with experience I would love to hear your feelings.

Oh, and I am a licensed carry holder.

[RoadKill]

All this talk about shooting someone is just talk, but when you actually take someone's life things change. My father took a mans life in a totally justifiable situation, and I can tell you he never got over it. He carried this burden till his own passing, nearly forty years. If someone on this board can speak to this with experience I would love to hear your feelings.

Oh, and I am a licensed carry holder.

My dad is still here,he talks about it more as time goes on but the most I have gotten directly from his mouth was that if he had to do it again...he wouldnt even know he'd "done it 'AGAIN' until I'd done it.....again" and then shouted "Not like I wanted to,but I would"......"again".   

[Disco]

I don't personally think that you should be able to shoot someone for stealing property. That's beyond the pale. In your home? Shoot em twice. Taking your bicycle? They might deserve to die for any number of reasons but bicycle theft in and of itself should not be a death sentence. That's just stupid, backwards and barbaric.

You know, sometimes you need to strongly consider taking a big gulp of STFU.  I am proud to have served on a grand jury that no-billed a repeat crime victim when he used his deer (non-big ugly scary assault-) rifle to kill the scumbag who was in the process of stealing the stereo out of his truck.  He didn't kill the first perp, or even the second perp.  This was the third time his truck had been broken into.  I don't know if he was victimized again in the future.  I do know, however, that perp #3 didn't victimize anyone ever again, and that's good.   

[RoadKill]

Now we know what to do...victimize Anvil! Just dont go in the house!  Hey 'dood' could you store your porn collection in the truck so I dont have to go in the house?   

[RainMaker]

Could we get a quick count on the number of riders wounded at or riding to and from Hotglue's place for the GOTF by the gun crazed Texans?

If you don't like Texas, that's your right.  Just stay away.

[Wetrudgeon]

We have lived in Texas most of our 57 years and find it to be a relatively safe place for the most part.  We think responsible citizens going about armed daily somewhat counters the irresponsible that also go about armed, and contributes to making Texas a relatively safe place.  We go armed a lot, and pray that we shall never encounter a situation where we are forced to use our handgun.  We also pray that should that horror ever come, we shall be ready.

As to using deadly force in the instance of property theft, we would not, as our things are not nearly as valuable as another life. However, the fact that the laws in Texas tend to favor the responsible property owner over the criminal predator is reassurning to us, since we see ourself in the former camp rather than the latter.

We would definately used deadly force in the matter of an intruder into the house.  Any individual forcing entry into a residence that can reasonably be expected to be occupied by the owner is definately NOT attempting to gain entry to engage in Bible study.  They have mayhem on their mind by definition.  Deadly force is clearly indicated in that horrible scenario.  Deliver us and ours from such a situation.

We trudge on.

[MP]

And yes, I was fully prepared to use my weapon if the confrontation hadn't immediately stopped escalating, otherwise I never would have been carrying in the first place.

 But lots of people carry guns and are more likely to end up on the other end of it than they are doing the right thing when the situation presents itself.

Prove it.  I call BS.  Show me the stats, from gov't sources, like the FBI, where MORE people are shot by their own guns in a crime situation.  NOT those committing suicide, which is, I believe, where those stats come from.

 We are talking about pulling a gun to defend oneself, or another, and then having that gun taken away, and used on the CCW permit holder. I say BS. 

MP

[The Anvil]

And yes, I was fully prepared to use my weapon if the confrontation hadn't immediately stopped escalating, otherwise I never would have been carrying in the first place.

 But lots of people carry guns and are more likely to end up on the other end of it than they are doing the right thing when the situation presents itself.

Prove it.  I call BS.  Show me the stats, from gov't sources, like the FBI, where MORE people are shot by their own guns in a crime situation.  NOT those committing suicide, which is, I believe, where those stats come from.

 We are talking about pulling a gun to defend oneself, or another, and then having that gun taken away, and used on the CCW permit holder. I say BS. 

MP

I didn't say "MORE PEOPLE" or "THE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE". I said "lots of people". That means a significant number, not the majority.

[Daniel Meyer]

And, please don't confuse the fact that we have the right to defend our property with that somehow meaning we are all executing little kids in our backyards for snitching a peach off the tree or something.

The law gives us the *right* to defend ourselves and our property, using lethal force if necessary, as opposed to the "duty to retreat" many places have (either explicitly or de facto)...which means that you are wrong for defending yourself/loved ones/property if the authorities *think* YOU could have somehow avoided  confronting the bad guy (even IN your own home).

We have the right. That doesn't make it like you see on umpteen badly written TV shows. It DOES give the crooks pause for thought though.

The most dangerous gun wielders here in Texas are the crooks. These are the guys that shoot innocents, cause havoc, etc. I always get a laugh out of those that forget that to the point that somehow the victims of these bozos become the bad guy if they even *think* they have the right to fight back.

[The Anvil]

You're confusing stopping a crime in progress with punishment after the fact.

No I'm not. You do not need to shoot someone for stealing a cheap piece of property. You may WANT to but that's a reflection on you.

Use of lethal force during the commission of a crime is not punishment, it's using lethal force to stop a crime from being committed...

Uh-huh, yeah, I got that.

And if one of my kids steals something and gets shot in the act, I'll be mad as hell... At them for stealing, and at myself for failing as a parent.

Calling BS. That's exactly the line I expected from you too because that's more of the same macho-throwback bullshit. We all fancy ourselves Clint Eastwood until reality hits and we find out that we're not in a movie. We always think we know how we're gonna react to our dead kid, don't we? Oh I'm sure you'd be angry. But you've also gotta know that you can do everything right as a parent and your kids can still go and do stupid things. Did you do nothing stupid as a kid? Hopefully you never have to find out how that feels.

Don't wanna get shot when you're stealing stuff? Then please stay where you are. Simple as that...

No Serk, it's really not as simple as that because nothing in life ever is. For simple people it may seem that way but things can get very complicated when you kill a child for egging your house.

Ya'll have your way of doing things, we have our way. It works for us.

No, it doesn't really work for you. You think it does, but it doesn't. Just look at your educational system. There's a reason why Texas is a meth capital and why people resort to raiding homes for copper. You can only blame Mexico so much for your failures as a state. Eventually you have to look in the mirror and consider the possibility that it's your own priority stack.

As far as victimizing me, come on over kids. But don't be surprised if you find yourself lit up like a Christmas tree with cap-stun balls at 320fps and if I'm feeling REAL frisky I might break out the Taser, make you crap your pants and then take pics of it.  


Disco, if you're so proud of what you did then why tell me to STFU? If you're so confident that what you did was right then why be concerned at all with what I say and think? But you and your fellow jurists failed. A car stereo is not worth killing over. I used to live in Salem, Massachusetts and had car stereos stolen on a number of occasions. I never felt the need to kill someone over it. It's just electronics and is easily replaced. The people who do that kind of thing will get theirs eventually. Pity them for living such desperate and sorry lives.

Would Jesus shoot someone for trying to take his car stereo I wonder? Doesn't seem like the kind of thing he'd do. Just sayin'.

[PharmBoy]

When I was growing up in West Texas almost everyone had some kind of weapon within reach or certainly within reach within a few seconds.  Every third pickup had a gun rack in the rear window with a shotgun or rifle in that rack.  Most of my friends & I carried our .22 or shotgun to school in the trunk of our cars just in case some of us decided to go rabbit hunting or bird hunting after school.  No one locked the door on their house or their vehicle and the key could usually be found in the ignition.  I don't remember that there was any gun play at all during that time other than a local doctor killed a guy when he caught him red handed with his wife.  Oh yes, the doctor never spent one minute behind bars.  Another local romeo turned up dead after braging around town about how many wives of local influentual people that he had been with.  No one was even questioned.  That was another thing that you better not get caught at back then...Jim  

[The Anvil]

And, please don't confuse the fact that we have the right to defend our property with that somehow meaning we are all executing little kids in our backyards for snitching a peach off the tree or something.

I didn't say it does. But here's the thing; what happens when it's a dark night and you shoot a person trying to snatch something from your shed and it turns out to be an 11 year old because the law gave the property owner no pause to think about WHO they're shooting and why. Think it won't happen? Because it will if it hasn't already.

The law gives us the *right* to defend ourselves and our property, using lethal force if necessary, as opposed to the "duty to retreat" many places have (either explicitly or de facto)...which means that you are wrong for defending yourself/loved ones/property if the authorities *think* YOU could have somehow avoided  confronting the bad guy (even IN your own home).

We have the right. That doesn't make it like you see on umpteen badly written TV shows. It DOES give the crooks pause for thought though.

When a man kills a guy over a car stereo then yes, it does exactly that.

The most dangerous gun wielders here in Texas are the crooks. These are the guys that shoot innocents, cause havoc, etc. I always get a laugh out of those that forget that to the point that somehow the victims of these bozos become the bad guy if they even *think* they have the right to fight back.

"Fight back". Curious choice of words. If they're just trying to take a piece of equipment that belongs to you then you're not really "fighting back" against anything other than a small monetary loss. Now, if you're really in a "fight" that's another thing. But I've already established my opinion on that.

[Bigdog]

I love Kentucky. But I too like you, would not mind living in the beautiful conservative state of Texas.
Everytime Texas makes the news about something controversial, I'm usually in their corner Amening ... for doing things their way...!!!
I believe alot of states could learn a thing or two from TEXAS   !!!!!!!!

[fudgie]

It makes no differance to me what age someone is that is stealing my stuff. I live on a farm. Lot of high dollar stuff in the barn. Not gonna let someone just take it. Am I suppose to just watch as someone just steals a steer? Lucky for me everything is in a barn so they will have to 'enter'.  Same goes for someone robbing me. 11 yrs old or 21. Dont matter to me. My .40 knows no age limit.

As far as 'doing it' when the time comes. I'm sure I could pull the trigger. Its him or me will be going thru my head. I've had my gun drawn before while checking out property when it was suspicious. I had many 9mm rounds shot at me before. Wasnt scary till it was over. I know its not tthe 'same thing' but I have watched many people die in front of me at work. Very few ever bothered me. Sounds mean but its not meant to be. You cant let it bother you or you fail at your profession.

[Serk]

You're confusing stopping a crime in progress with punishment after the fact.

No I'm not. You do not need to shoot someone for stealing a cheap piece of property. You may WANT to but that's a reflection on you.

Use of lethal force during the commission of a crime is not punishment, it's using lethal force to stop a crime from being committed...

Uh-huh, yeah, I got that.

And if one of my kids steals something and gets shot in the act, I'll be mad as hell... At them for stealing, and at myself for failing as a parent.

Calling BS. That's exactly the line I expected from you too because that's more of the same macho-throwback bullshit. We all fancy ourselves Clint Eastwood until reality hits and we find out that we're not in a movie. We always think we know how we're gonna react to our dead kid, don't we? Oh I'm sure you'd be angry. But you've also gotta know that you can do everything right as a parent and your kids can still go and do stupid things. Did you do nothing stupid as a kid? Hopefully you never have to find out how that feels.

Don't wanna get shot when you're stealing stuff? Then please stay where you are. Simple as that...

No Serk, it's really not as simple as that because nothing in life ever is. For simple people it may seem that way but things can get very complicated when you kill a child for egging your house.

Ya'll have your way of doing things, we have our way. It works for us.

No, it doesn't really work for you. You think it does, but it doesn't. Just look at your educational system. There's a reason why Texas is a meth capital and why people resort to raiding homes for copper. You can only blame Mexico so much for your failures as a state. Eventually you have to look in the mirror and consider the possibility that it's your own priority stack.

As far as victimizing me, come on over kids. But don't be surprised if you find yourself lit up like a Christmas tree with cap-stun balls at 320fps and if I'm feeling REAL frisky I might break out the Taser, make you crap your pants and then take pics of it.  


Disco, if you're so proud of what you did then why tell me to STFU? If you're so confident that what you did was right then why be concerned at all with what I say and think? But you and your fellow jurists failed. A car stereo is not worth killing over. I used to live in Salem, Massachusetts and had car stereos stolen on a number of occasions. I never felt the need to kill someone over it. It's just electronics and is easily replaced. The people who do that kind of thing will get theirs eventually. Pity them for living such desperate and sorry lives.

Would Jesus shoot someone for trying to take his car stereo I wonder? Doesn't seem like the kind of thing he'd do. Just sayin'.

I'm VERY far from a Clint Eastwood macho type. I hope and pray (or would pray if I was the praying type) that I never have need to use my guns for anything other than recreation. But it is very reassuring to know that I live in a free state where, should the need arise, I'm protected from the government if I do use them to defend what is mine. And no, believe it or not, we don't have piles of dead 11 year olds that were shot while egging houses, or while stealing something small out of sheds. However, what we DO have is defense of the victim. In YOUR scenario, where you would harm the 11 year olds, in a non-free state you'd be putting yourself at GREAT risk of being sued or prosecuted. What if one of the kids reacted badly to the taser, went into convulsions and died? It happens. In a non-free state, YOU would then be considered a murderer.

And as far as my kids, I'm not saying I wouldn't be mad as hell, crying like a girl if something happened to them. How would you react if one of your kids tried to murder someone and got shot in the commission of the act? I see that no differently than if one of my kids tried to mug someone and got shot while doing it. I sure as hell wouldn't be happy about it, but I wouldn't blame the victim that defended themselves for defending themselves.

And, as far as Texas goes, yes, what works for us does work for us. You don't like it, keep your hands out of our affairs (You being non-Texans, not you specifically) and everything will be fine. We happen to think the way ya'll do things is pretty dumb in many ways, but you don't see us going on and on about how horrible your state is. I know, you're jealous you're not a Texan so you have to lash out, it's okay, we understand...

[Disco]

Disco, if you're so proud of what you did then why tell me to STFU? If you're so confident that what you did was right then why be concerned at all with what I say and think? But you and your fellow jurists failed. A car stereo is not worth killing over. I used to live in Salem, Massachusetts and had car stereos stolen on a number of occasions. I never felt the need to kill someone over it. It's just electronics and is easily replaced. The people who do that kind of thing will get theirs eventually. Pity them for living such desperate and sorry lives.

There are several reasons I'm concerning myself with what you say.  

1) You argue for sport.  Then, you parse and continue the argument until you get the last word.  I don't like argument for sport.  
2) Having an opinion on something, being allowed to voice that opinion, the wisdom of voicing that opinion, and the fallout from voicing that opinion are related, but different.  You voiced an opinion that I don't believe was either invited or appropriate, hence the STFU.  
3) Don't presume to tell me I failed or my fellow jurists jurors failed or my fellow Texans failed.  I'm not presuming to tell you or your fellow Granite Staters how to run your business.  Reciprocate the same courtesy, hence the STFU.
4) Not worth killing over a car stereo?  OK, that's a judgement call.  You and/or your state have placed limitations on how to react or even whether to react.  I'm sure lots of people down here have placed similar limitations on themselves.  The state, however, has given us a bit more leeway.  
5) As for people getting theirs eventually, perp #3 got his.  Got it quickly.  Got it effectively.  Got it inexpensively.

"Fight back". Curious choice of words. If they're just trying to take a piece of equipment that belongs to you then you're not really "fighting back" against anything other than a small monetary loss. Now, if you're really in a "fight" that's another thing. But I've already established my opinion on that.

Now, read your words again "If they're just trying to take a piece of equipment that belongs to you" then stop.  Simple, huh?  Who are you or the state to tell anyone that they must subjugate themselves to a criminal just because it's only "a small monetary loss"?  Ridiculous.

[Gangman036]

Fair enough..............where's the stats that "lots of people" are injured by their own weapons?

The media fails to accurately report on instances where people are successful at defusing a situation or avoiding a perceived problem because it just doesn't get reported. On the other hand, times where a person is shot are very well documented.
In my younger days, I repossessed vehicles for extra cash. It was easy and you could make a lot of money in a short amount of time. At one location I was confronted by a young lady's 3 rather large brothers. They backed all the way to my vehicle and that's when my partner cycled the action on  a Colt .45. Situation defused and I left with the car. If we had not been armed.......I'm sure I was in jeopardy of a serious a$$ beating or worse. I carry all the time and other than that one time......have never been in a situation  where I've had to pull / display a firearm. Hope it stays that way.

A great book the read "if" you plan on carrying a firearm by Massad Ayoob that deals with the legal implications of firearms use in self-defense, and the whole subject of keeping, storing, carrying and using firearms..

http://www.amazon.com/Gravest-Extreme-Firearm-Personal-Protection/dp/0936279001/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1322941071&sr=8-1

Ride Safe !!

[The Anvil]

I'm VERY far from a Clint Eastwood macho type. I hope and pray (or would pray if I was the praying type) that I never have need to use my guns for anything other than recreation. But it is very reassuring to know that I live in a free state where, should the need arise, I'm protected from the government if I do use them to defend what is mine. And no, believe it or not, we don't have piles of dead 11 year olds that were shot while egging houses, or while stealing something small out of sheds. However, what we DO have is defense of the victim. In YOUR scenario, where you would harm the 11 year olds, in a non-free state you'd be putting yourself at GREAT risk of being sued or prosecuted. What if one of the kids reacted badly to the taser, went into convulsions and died? It happens. In a non-free state, YOU would then be considered a murderer.

But I do live in a free state. I fled Massachusetts for a reason. But that's not the same as being given free reign to shoot unarmed petty thieves. In no world do I see that as an honorable act unless you could claim a genuine fear for your safety. I didn't say that you couldn't take appropriate measures to stop them though. But gunning down someone who's rummaging through your car is the act of a bloodthirsty dullard who knows no other way.

And as far as my kids, I'm not saying I wouldn't be mad as hell, crying like a girl if something happened to them. How would you react if one of your kids tried to murder someone and got shot in the commission of the act? I see that no differently than if one of my kids tried to mug someone and got shot while doing it. I sure as hell wouldn't be happy about it, but I wouldn't blame the victim that defended themselves for defending themselves.

A mugging is not what I described. When you "mug" someone you are threatening physical harm for failure to comply with a demand. Totally different dood, totally different. If my child were killed while trying to do physical harm to someone else I'd be devastated. But I at least understand the mentality of doing everything in one's power to save one's own life. But killing to keep my car stereo??? You keep escalating the scenario to bolster your point (turning a petty theft into a mugging). That will not work with me.

And, as far as Texas goes, yes, what works for us does work for us. You don't like it, keep your hands out of our affairs (You being non-Texans, not you specifically) and everything will be fine. We happen to think the way ya'll do things is pretty dumb in many ways, but you don't see us going on and on about how horrible your state is. I know, you're jealous you're not a Texan so you have to lash out, it's okay, we understand...

You might be surprised. New Hampshire really isn't all that different from Texas in many ways. But we have an abundance of fresh water and good schools, something Texas can't claim. We're also not overrun by illegals and sharing a border with a lawless state. I get calls on a semi regular basis for good paying jobs with defense contractors in Texas. As soon as they say "Texas" I say no thanks.

[The Anvil]

2) Having an opinion on something, being allowed to voice that opinion, the wisdom of voicing that opinion, and the fallout from voicing that opinion are related, but different.  You voiced an opinion that I don't believe was either invited or appropriate, hence the STFU.  
3) Don't presume to tell me I failed or my fellow jurists jurors failed or my fellow Texans failed.  I'm not presuming to tell you or your fellow Granite Staters how to run your business.  Reciprocate the same courtesy, hence the STFU.

I don't need your permission to voice my opinion. 

Now, read your words again "If they're just trying to take a piece of equipment that belongs to you" then stop.  Simple, huh?  Who are you or the state to tell anyone that they must subjugate themselves to a criminal just because it's only "a small monetary loss"?  Ridiculous.

Where did I say that anyone should "subjugate themselves to a criminal"? This is about appropriate responses, not capitulation. Why does it have to be all or nothing with you some people? You can thwart a criminal without insisting on killing them outright for something as minor as stealing a car stereo. Or rather, a man with a brain can do that. An ignoramus with a gun will just see it as an opportunity to finally take a life.

How would I handle it? I would confront the thief with my weapon drawn. If they ran I'd let them go and let the police handle it. There's no honor in shooting a man in the back, even a thief. You do not meet dishonor with further dishonor. If they advanced in the face of a loaded firearm or attempted to draw a weapon I would kill them because clearly they mean to do me harm.

And still I haven't seen anyone answer the question of WWJD?

[Serk]

A mugging is not what I described. When you "mug" someone you are threatening physical harm for failure to comply with a demand. Totally different dood, totally different. If my child were killed while trying to do physical harm to someone else I'd be devastated. But I at least understand the mentality of doing everything in one's power to save one's own life. But killing to keep my car stereo??? You keep escalating the scenario to bolster your point (turning a petty theft into a mugging). That will not work with me.

So what's the cutoff? Physical threat of death? Or injury? Or maybe they just wanna rough you up a little bit, but not really hurt you. Is that okay? Who knows, maybe they just had a bad day and would be satisfied with just punching you a few times.

 Do you consider theft of property NOT violence against you? You ever have something stolen from you? Did you not consider that a violent act, even if actual violence wasn't involved?

The other point you're missing is that I'm not advocating automatically going out and shooting every petty thief. What I'm in favor of us the state staying the hell out of those decisions, and letting the responsible citizens make those judgement calls. In reference to your comment:

As far as victimizing me, come on over kids. But don't be surprised if you find yourself lit up like a Christmas tree with cap-stun balls at 320fps and if I'm feeling REAL frisky I might break out the Taser, make you crap your pants and then take pics of it.

if you did that in a non-free state such as you advocate, you would easily be brought up on at LEAST assault charges, quit possibly attempted murder or murder if something went wrong. That's where we disagree. The state has placed a cap on your response, which is basically you MIGHT get away with calling 911 and flailing your arms around a bit while yelling at them. Anything more, and you're risking forfeiting your freedom. In a free state, the options are left to the responsible citizen to decide on.

As soon as they say "Texas" I say no thanks.

Thank you for doing Texas that great service, we seriously appreciate it.

[The Anvil]

Do you consider theft of property NOT violence against you?

No, not by definition. I can separate myself from my possessions.

You ever have something stolen from you? Did you not consider that a violent act, even if actual violence wasn't involved?

Nope. As I already stated, I've had a few car stereos stolen. I once interrupted a couple of kids stealing the off-road lights from my Jeep. They ran off when I yelled at them. If I had decided to shoot them should the state just ignore that?

But in none of those cases did I feel like "violence" was done to me. I've seen and been a to party to both ends of enough of the real thing to know what it is. If you think that is "violence" then you do not understand what it truly is.

The other point you're missing is that I'm not advocating automatically going out and shooting every petty thief. What I'm in favor of us the state staying the hell out of those decisions, and letting the responsible citizens make those judgement calls. In reference to your comment:

And I think people should be held accountable if they over-react.

Thank you for doing Texas that great service, we seriously appreciate it.

Maybe I'll decide to move there now just to piss you off. 

[Serk]

Maybe I'll decide to move there now just to piss you off. 

Wouldn't surprise me in the slightest... But you still wouldn't be a Texan!

But, you're welcome to do so, we're pretty welcoming here...

...just don't break the law. That's all we ask...

[Disco]

I don't need your permission to voice my opinion.

You are 100% correct.  But don't be shocked, offended, or defensive it it's met with another STFU.

Where did I say that anyone should "subjugate themselves to a criminal"?

Wow, really?  How 'bout by suggesting that one should just stand by and watch your car stereo being stolen.  I mean, after all, "it's just electronics and easily replaced". 

As for your WWJD question, ask the perp.  Then again, maybe that conversation has already been conducted one on one.