Left turners in front of us...

[Jabba]

Guys, there is a lot of this going on...

What can we do to protect ourselves?

I always get off the gas, cover the brakes, and "wag" my headlights at them.  I had a guy stop short after a 2' pull out just last week, and gave me the thumbs up and apologetic wave as I rode by.  I took that to mean that my "wag" at him got his attention.  I had him covered anyway, and he would have had a TOUGH time getting me if he had tried... but still.

It's REALLY up to us out there.  Bitching about the cagers isn't going to keep us alive.

Let's share some techniques amongst ourselves and see if we can get this number down.

Jabba

[Black Dog]

First, if they are 'in my space', I figure they are trying to get me...  Mean it or not, they are bigger than us, and we will get hurt.

If they are pulling out from my right, I cover the brakes, and watch their front wheel.  If it moves, I'm on the brakes, and move to the left if possible.  If they are headed towards me, and have the possibility of a left turn, again I cover the brakes, and like you, maybe flash the headlight...

Just being aware of the vehicle next to, or near you, is not enough.  So many folks are doing everything but paying attention, I like to see if they are texting, eating, shaving... and adjust my position as necessary.

Whatever works, whatever gets ya noticed...  I ride with hi beams on and spots on with the light bar 

Black Dog

[BonS]

I always assume that they're going to do it. I look for their eyes to see me but never assume that they're thinking, I watch their wheels for turning and movement and I stay aware of my escape route. Almost 50 years of riding and I haven't yet kissed one like that - yet. I always say that I give up 25% of my fun to fear and I really, really enjoy the remaining 75%.

[mhallock]

A friend of mine just installed extra running lights last weekend.......right after he attended a funeral for a friend who fell victim to a "left turner"......

Mark

[..]

Headlight modulator?

I've used one for years.

Has it saved me? I've no idea.

I've never had a left turner incident BUT I do follow the same defensive strategy as others have described.

[ricoman]

I try to make sure I haven't left a turn signal on.
To make yourself more visible to oncoming traffic (following too), change positiion in your lane often. This presents a "new" picture to the traffic.
Never "assume" the other guy sees you.
As jabba said, rapid flickng lowbeam to high can get their attention. That has worked for me on two lanes roads as well, when somebody oncoming pulls out to pass.

[Oss]

AIR HORN

Hit it whenever I see someone who MAY be a threat to turn in front of me

I dont care who thinks I am an Osshole

It does tend to shake up Gman tho when he is riding behind me

Sorry bout that

 

[fudgie]

I just leave a out. Around them one way or the other.

[solo1]

Somewhere I read that left turn accidents are the motorcycle rider's fault and that you always should expect left turns in front of you.  I don't buy into that but I have my hand covering the front brake and looking for an escape every time that I see a possible left turn. I watch the wheels of the other cars too, Look for cell phone drivers, etc.  I don't wag my lights but I do weave the bike to get attention. There are some out there that might think that wagging the lights means "C'mon".

At four way stops, I try to be polite and wave all cars through before I go . Get the hazards out of the way if you can.

I wear yellow gear and helmet but don't count on that as making me visible.  The 'Strom sets higher than most bikes and that helps me to look over the tops of cars for problems.

Back in 1908 Harry Hurt's accident summary said that 26 % of motorcycle/car accidents are left turners.  I believe that it's more than true today, especially in the case of cell phone distracted drivers.

[G-Man]

Yup, Oss' air horns sure can wake you up.  On the streets, I never speed and always have my high beam on.  I never let someone give up the right of way either.  I did that once, just once, and as soon as I gave it some gas, the bitch did too.  Scared the crap out of me.

[Chrisj CMA]

Ive had two close calls in the last couple months and the air horn (I agree Oss) saved one of them, and that one would have been unavoidable if she had pulled out.  Another I was able to slow down enough to avoid a collision but it was close.  How is it the riders fault when the car driver runs the stop sign or just flat out tries to pull out into the motorcycles "right of way"?  I dont get that train of thought.

Headlight modulator sounds like a good idea....I just have running lights but that may be in my future

The wag the lights goes right along with my theory that people see movement.  If Im approaching an intersection and there is a car stopped or approching a position where they COULD pull out in front of me, I try to change the position on the motorcycle some so maybe they get a glimpse of the side of the bike instead of just the front.  And at night healight aiming seems to be effective too

I also never assume that since I have the right of way that I will be allowed to claim it safely.  I excpect the opposite actually and am pleasantly surprised when nothing happenes.

But when the crunch hits USE YOUR FRONT BRAKE, I mean get confident with a good hard squeeze on that thing, steer to the safest thing you can, like Id rather hit the car next to me going the same direction than the one coming at me the opposite direction any day....ride it till the end, dont give up and just lay down.

If you have to hit something every mile an hour slower is a bonus, but I have found that if you drive all the way to the end thinking and reacting, there is many times an out at the last second and you avoid disaster

[indybobm]

There is an excellent write-up in this month's issue of Cycle World. A guy wrote in said his brother-in-law wrecked his bike. He claimed the front-end 'locked up'. Seems like in a panic situation he tried to turn the handlebars in the direction he wanted to go. Counter-steering then made the front-end to seem to 'lock-up'. DO NOT FORGET ABOUT COUNTER-STEERING when trying to avoid an accident!

[Moonshot_1]

But when the crunch hits USE YOUR FRONT BRAKE, I mean get confident with a good hard squeeze on that thing, steer to the safest thing you can, like Id rather hit the car next to me going the same direction than the one coming at me the opposite direction any day....ride it till the end, dont give up and just lay down.

If you have to hit something every mile an hour slower is a bonus, but I have found that if you drive all the way to the end thinking and reacting, there is many times an out at the last second and you avoid disaster

+100

[Thespian]

 I am fairly new here, and have been wondering if the number of crashes reported was due to this being a large community, or if there have been more than normal. Seems like the later from this post. Most of my time is in the country, but I still change positions in my lane whenever someone pulls up from a driveway or side street. I believe the only cage that isn't a threat is the one behind me, moving in the other direction. keep your head on a swivel and the rubber side down.  

[Squealy]

I don't wag my lights but I do weave the bike to get attention. There are some out there that might think that wagging the lights means "C'mon".

Exactly, waging the lights to me is weaving the bike back and forth in the lane.  That seems to change the light profile enough to get their attention....

[BamaDrifter64]

I'm a pretty conservative rider; I've hit the pavement once and it is hard and unforgiving.  When I see a vehicle from either side that might turn in front of me, I just go ahead and hit my brakes.  Gives me more time to see what they do, more reaction time if they do come out, plus scrubs my speed so I can stop quicker.  I have headlight modulator on I/S and can testify they work.  I had one on my Standard until I went to dual headlights; now I waggle those at them too.  Only had to hit the ditch once in my riding career and it's NOT a pleasant experience.

Dave

[musclehead]

an OSShole?  LOL!!!  don't forget about the 'gunners swerve'

http://www.angelfire.com/nj3/terminalvalkocity/swerve.html

[Squealy]

don't forget about the 'gunners swerve'

That is EXACTLY the "weave" i'm talking about...  I believe it works.....

[Jess from VA]

On four lanes, I do not cruise in the speed lane (barring long lines in both), I pass and get back over, trying to set an example to the thousands of idiots in my urban area.  And I generally speed to find open areas between large gaggles of cars, then slow to maintain my space.

And like Jabba says, when I see a car rolling out to pull into traffic from my right, or waiting with a left turn signal ahead, I will aim the bike right at them (and wobble the bars/fairing) to give them full moving headlights (and add-on running lights).  I didn't used to, but I am running daylight on brights almost all the time now, and have been known to flash low/brights at people at times, but not at 4 way stops, unless you are telling them it is OK for THEM to go first.

But on four lanes, while cruising the inside lane alone, I will almost always transition to the speed lane when approaching every major intersection (assuming I have a green to go thru).  Too many people will make a legal right turn on red (after maybe stopping) out into speeding traffic, and they don't care even if they see you coming.  At four lane intersections, you are safer and more visible in the speed lane.  And as I enter the intersection, I am all the way to the outside of the lane, so some dimbulb making a WIDE right turn on red does not clip me.  Then I get back to the right again.

I also have made it a habit to look down both directions of every intersection I approach, to see if a car is approaching at high speed, and MAY just run the red or stop sign entirely.  

I know light modulators work, I just don't like them.  But I am a firm believer in extra forward lights on all daylight riding, well away from the headlamp(s).  

And you have to know how to use your brakes to make a controlled emergency stop in a straight line (even if it means turning crooked on a turning road to get straight).  Bikes with functioning brakes can outstop most any 4-wheeled vehicle on the road, but it is my firm belief that few are capable of using their full braking capacity...... and I mean 50-70 to a full stop in two seconds (without falling over at the end).  (and the cage behind you cannot stop that fast, ever, so watch out for that too)

Of course, the more observant you are, the less likely you will have to make emergency stops.

And that is NUMBER  ONE (situational awareness)......... you must be a fighter pilot in enemy territory riding in urban traffic areas.  You must keep and stay aware at all times, lest they kill or maim you (and get a failure to yield ticket).

[Novavalker]

AIR HORN

Hit it whenever I see someone who MAY be a threat to turn in front of me

I dont care who thinks I am an Osshole

It does tend to shake up Gman tho when he is riding behind me

Sorry bout that

 

+1
If they don't see you a blast on the air horn will stop them dead in their tracks.

[Jabba]

Squealy and I discuss safety a lot, and share our experiences daily, and do a lot of post ride debriefing about things... and by "wag" the light, I do in fact mean swerve the bars, not flash the lights.

I believe 90% of accidents that would not be our fault are still avoidable if we're hyper attentive, and willing to actively seek visibility.

I am not a fan of headlight modulators.  I think they focus a drivers attention and create target fixation.  I have had it happen to me.  They are VERY distracting, to ME.  I don't want to BE that distraction to someone else.

We have A ga-jillion miles amongst us.  I think we should use them to keep one another alive.

Jabba

[Gryphon Rider]

... and I mean 50-70 to a full stop in two seconds (without falling over at the end).  (and the cage behind you cannot stop that fast, ever, so watch out for that too)

I had just finished teaching emergency braking to a group of students, most of who did quite well, getting their forks fully compressed and the back tire barely touching the pavement, and I asked them, "how many of you could stop that quickly with the car you drove here in?"

One of the students raised his hand and said, "I think I could!"

"What do you drive?"

"That silver Porsche," he said, pointing to a low-slung car with tires three times as wide as the ones on my car.

I had to admit, "you just might be able to!"

[MAD6Gun]

 I too wil slow down and move from side to side when coming up to a intersection with a potential left turner on the other side. I also will move to the right side of the lane to help make sure they see me. Does not always work but I am ready if they dont.

 Just last month there was a crash just down the road from my work. Woman in a jeep turned left in front of sport bike. Driver was badly injured his female passinger was killed. Neither had a helmit on but that is for another discusion.

 What my father Solo1 ment was that most of these types of crashes could be considered partialy  the riders fault only due to the fact that they are in most cases avoidable. If the rider stays aleart this type of accident can be avoided. Not always,there is always the type you cant see coming.

 Either way,stay aleart and keep it between the ditches...........

[Bonzo]

 I have Three 55 watt lights in front of the bike, a stock headlight and two yellow spots on the windshield. The woman last night just turned in front of me, Patty did not even see it, I really had maybe 1/2 second to react. I've been on two wheels for 40 years. I was F--ked from the git last night.

[R J]

I too wil slow down and move from side to side when coming up to a intersection with a potential left turner on the other side. I also will move to the right side of the lane to help make sure they see me. Does not always work but I am ready if they dont.

 Just last month there was a crash just down the road from my work. Woman in a jeep turned left in front of sport bike. Driver was badly injured his female passinger was killed. Neither had a helmit on but that is for another discusion.

 What my father Solo1 ment was that most of these types of crashes could be considered partialy  the riders fault only due to the fact that they are in most cases avoidable. If the rider stays aleart this type of accident can be avoided. Not always,there is always the type you cant see coming.

 Either way,stay aleart and keep it between the ditches...........

In adddition to what Mark said, keep the speed no more than 10 over.    The ones running 50 to 70 over are the ones who get hurt real bad and don't live to tell their story.

[..]

If you didn't know many cagers find it hard to gauge the speed of an approaching bike.

35 limit in heavy traffic and you are doing 60 be prepared to die.

[Jess from VA]

... and I mean 50-70 to a full stop in two seconds (without falling over at the end).  (and the cage behind you cannot stop that fast, ever, so watch out for that too)

I had just finished teaching emergency braking to a group of students, most of who did quite well, getting their forks fully compressed and the back tire barely touching the pavement, and I asked them, "how many of you could stop that quickly with the car you drove here in?"

One of the students raised his hand and said, "I think I could!"

"What do you drive?"

"That silver Porsche," he said, pointing to a low-slung car with tires three times as wide as the ones on my car.

I had to admit, "you just might be able to!"

Yeah, more and more cars can stop quickly, esp with antilocks, which make them almost idiot proof.

Of course the big IF for us on two wheels is..... IF they engage their brakes at all, or in time.

More than a couple times, I had a cager screw up and pull out or change lanes on me, then realize what they did to me, and while I'm scrambling to avoid them, THEN they slam on the brakes and become yet another obstacle to survival. 

[mario]

and as y'all know, it's not just the cars ahead of us.  i was sitting at a light yesterday on the mean streak and heard tires locking up behind me.  as i looked over my right shoulder i attempted to get into the left turning lane while a big, black 4x4 was trying to vere into the center lane to avoid hitting me.  it stopped in time, thank You God,   but it sure scared the heck out of me.  i assumed he was dinkin' with his phone and i, unfortunately, had a few choice words for him that i through over my shoulder, and he yelled, 'i'm sorry' out the window at me.  we went on our way when the light turned green, he sped passed me pretty fast and i was burnin' angry   and had to settle myself down so i could get myself home ok.  
so watch your @$$ as well out there!!

[F6BANGER]

I have MotoLites AND a headlight modulator.

[98valk]

I use the triangle light pattern on my bike which I read about many yrs ago. The railroad industry determined that the most conspicuous lighting arrangement was to have a triangle of forward facing lights, with the largest and brightest at the top and 2 smaller mounted horizontally below it.
my setup is, main head light and one driving light on each side of the bike attached to the crash bar.

I've also noticed that having the high beam on gets their attention.

[sugerbear]

and as y'all know, it's not just the cars ahead of us.  i was sitting at a light yesterday on the mean streak and heard tires locking up behind me.  as i looked over my right shoulder i attempted to get into the left turning lane while a big, black 4x4 was trying to vere into the center lane to avoid hitting me.  it stopped in time, thank You God,   but it sure scared the heck out of me.  i assumed he was dinkin' with his phone and i, unfortunately, had a few choice words for him that i through over my shoulder, and he yelled, 'i'm sorry' out the window at me.  we went on our way when the light turned green, he sped passed me pretty fast and i was burnin' angry   and had to settle myself down so i could get myself home ok.  
so watch your @$$ as well out there!!

yup, gotta scar on my right shoulder from a stupid kid on his cell phone not stopping behind me at a stop light. his hood ornament poked a nice little hole.

[NCGhostrider]

If I see a car at any intersection that might effect me, I head straight towards them with the brights on and do my best to make eye contact.  Moving in the lane seems to draw their attention.  I also cover brakes reduce speed as necessary. 

The bad thing is, odds are against us, we can do our best, but all it takes is just one time when things don't work out.   Pavement hurts, especially as I get older.  Sometimes I don't ride when "things" don't feel right, just figure I am best going with the flow, not against it.

Ride safe,

Craig
NcGhostrider
99 I/S

[BF]

Guys, there is a lot of this going on...

What can we do to protect ourselves?

Really not much.......other than pay way more attention than they do. 

I've got five lights on the front of my bike (headlight always on bright during the day....and even at night sometimes), and when I'm on the way to work, wearing a bright dayglo orange and reflective safety vest (military requirement).  They've still pulled out in front of me. 

Paying attention is the best you can do. 

[Gear Jammer]

I use the triangle light pattern on my bike which I read about many yrs ago. The railroad industry determined that the most conspicuous lighting arrangement was to have a triangle of forward facing lights, with the largest and brightest at the top and 2 smaller mounted horizontally below it.
my setup is, main head light and one driving light on each side of the bike attached to the crash bar.

I've also noticed that having the high beam on gets their attention.

Triangle with PIAA lights on crashbars, two 55 watt driving lights on Cobra bars, along with that terribly annoying headlight modulator.  If it irritates them, that means they've seen me.  Kinda the point isn't it?

[fudgie]

Guys, there is a lot of this going on...

What can we do to protect ourselves?

Really not much.......other than pay way more attention than they do. 

I've got five lights on the front of my bike (headlight always on bright during the day....and even at night sometimes), and when I'm on the way to work, wearing a bright dayglo orange and reflective safety vest (military requirement).  They've still pulled out in front of me. 

Paying attention is the best you can do. 

Yup. Cars pull out in front of the ambulance all the time. Even with big red and white lights and wig wags.

[Michael K (Az.)]

Headlight modulator?

I've used one for years.

Has it saved me? I've no idea.

I've never had a left turner incident BUT I do follow the same defensive strategy as others have described.

Me also! One that I've ridden with had said that it was annoying in their rearview but then, he made my point! "Saw me, didn't cha!" Also aforementioned riding techniques, Cobra light bar, oh yeah! I sing real loud, too!

[tonyfan70]

Guys, there is a lot of this going on...

What can we do to protect ourselves?

Really not much.......other than pay way more attention than they do. 

I've got five lights on the front of my bike (headlight always on bright during the day....and even at night sometimes), and when I'm on the way to work, wearing a bright dayglo orange and reflective safety vest (military requirement).  They've still pulled out in front of me. 

Paying attention is the best you can do. 

Yup. Cars pull out in front of the ambulance all the time. Even with big red and white lights and wig wags.

My daily driver is 13 1/2 feet tall, 8 feet wide and 70 feet long. I always have my lights on. When I use my turn signal, there are 8 lights that blink. The people who actually do notice the signals, take them to be a challenge to speed up and block me.

Believe me when I say this, I am still invisible to alot of people. I can't think about it too much though, or I'd be afraid to ride. My bikes 3 1/2 feet wide and 8 feet long so if they can't see the rig.....scary if you think about it.

I don't know about the modulators. I guess I look at them like deer whistles...they work until you hit one. But on my Valk, the high beam is on along with the spots in the daytime and most of the time at night.

Like others have said, I just assume noone else sees me...bike and the rig both.

[Fudd]

I also use a headlight modulator.

I've wired it to only work on bright, which I'm a firm believer in running brights during the daytime.  My modulator doesn't have a photo eye, it works fully manually.  I over-ride the modulation at night with a switch above my clutch resevoir.   It only cost $32 from JCWhittney.

I feel safer ridding with it.  However, I am carefull not to become complacent, knowing the key to safety is ridding defensively and leaving yourself an out.  

[thewoodman]

Not much of a fan of headlight modulators either, but it's a matter of taste. I went with a multi-colored headlight surround prism that I think was meant for snow mobiles and it seems to have the same effect as the modulators in conjunction with the 2 PIA lights on a bar under my headlight.

All that and an attitude that the rest of the world is trying to kill me has kept me alive so far, though my theory of invisibility gets tested from time to time.

What often worries me more than what's in front is the in-attentive drivers [text, call, make-up or just plain lost in their own head] who want to try to run me over from behind. That truly pi$$es me off. An I have light for that, but no real control over the situation.

[tonyfan70]

What often worries me more than what's in front is the in-attentive drivers [text, call, make-up or just plain lost in their own head] who want to try to run me over from behind. That truly pi$$es me off. An I have light for that, but no real control over the situation.


I had someone tailgating me something terrible one day. 2 lane road and I'd speed up and they'd catch back up to me. I'd slow down and they wouldn't pass. Finally I see a county mountie coming towards me and I swerved towards him, without crossing the center line, while flashing me high beam on and off and pointing at him and the car behind me.

At the next intersection, I got into the left hand turn lane to get away from the tailgating tard. I couldn't get the green arrow, of course, and the tailgator proceeded on her way with the green light. A couple seconds later the county cop rolls up next to me and asks "That silver Pontiac?" I said yessir, I have tried everything to get them to back off or pass me and boom, he was gone in pursuit.

Don't know what happened if anything, but I sure was glad to see a LEO on my side that day.