Scaring the bejesus out of me!

[Valkorado]

I met a couple guys from Michigan touring on Interstates a few weeks ago in Lake City, Colorado.  One of them told me there are two things to know about Valkyries -- change the oil and change the tires. 

I've heard the Fat Lady is pretty low maintenance, but it sounds like he was stretching it a bit.

Guys, all this talk of splines is putting chills down my spine!  I am no mechanic, and lack a garage and tools even if I aspired to be.  What would a legitimate shop charge to check the splines and moly lube them up if they are (hopefully) fine, just so I won't get burned?  Is this a thing where preventative maintenance will keep them going for awhile (my bike has about 16k) or do the splines just eventually peter out?

Also, HYDROLOCK.  WTF, man?  Thankfully, my hometown has a station that sells ethanol free 91 octane.  Will this prevent the problem, or do I still need to worry?  Also, petcock on in season and off in winter like Honda suggests, or off when not riding (seems like that would put lots of wear and tear on it)?

Thanks.

[Fritz The Cat]

Just recently had to rebuild my final drive when I pulled the rear wheel and found the splines bone dry, rusty red and within a hair's breath of total failure. Rebuilding was neither fun nor cheap. Have checked the peace of mind is worth it.

As for hydrolock, never experienced it. I suspect it's rather rare but totally devastating when it does happen. I recently left my Valk sitting for over 2 months with the petcock (OEM) fulling open. I bumped the starter before going for the full crank so I dunno. It's a fai8lure that doesn't happen to everyone but I suppose bumping the starter before cranking ain't a bad idea.

[sutterhome]

change the oil once a year should do it unless your really hard on the girl,tires are your life you only have 2 so keep a eye on them,but any bike same advise. Splines when your rear tire gets replaced and sorry if I'm wrong.... but it doesn't sound like your going to DIY, mention it to them and know what you want them to do.... knowledge is power...and don't sweat it, its a great machine.Hell I would worry about the starter switch before the splines

[john]

                                  " my bike has about 16k "                   
           try not to let the chicken littles ruin your fun

[Skinhead]

Where do you live?  Lots of folks (myself included) are willing to teach/do the work, loan tools and facilities.  Hook up with the locals.

[Valkorado]

                                  " my bike has about 16k "                   
           try not to let the chicken littles ruin your fun

haha, just bought her with 14.4, added the rest in a month just getting acquainted, mostly around my home stomping grounds -- Western Colorado, by the way.  Any dragon riders in this chilly neck o' the woods?

[DenverDave]

Welcome, you may want to contact Willopad357, he lives on the western slope. If you find yourself in the big city, contact me. I have a craftsman lift and the tools to pull the final drive. I have a bolt on lift adapter on my bike, so I don't have a separate adapter. Might have to figure something else out in order to lift the bike.


Ride Safe

Dave

[GOOSE]

by all means buy the lift adapter....it is on e-bay.  i'm sure someone here can put up the way to find it there. they are only in the 40.00 dollar range, and well worth it.

[Rio Wil]

                                  " my bike has about 16k "                   
           try not to let the chicken littles ruin your fun

haha, just bought her with 14.4, added the rest in a month just getting acquainted, mostly around my home stomping grounds -- Western Colorado, by the way.  Any dragon riders in this chilly neck o' the woods?

You are at the mileage point where you MUST check and lube the final drive splines as well as the drive shaft and pinion cup splines. 15K mile intervals seems to be the optimum to do the lube job......but don't go much over that!!!!!!!!!  You will sacrifice your splines to the red rust demon!

[sugerbear]

also remember that for every post of something horrible happening, there are hundreds that don't. we just don't post that everything is doing fine.

some people like to tinker with their bikes. most of us just ride them.

[Valkorado]

also remember that for every post of something horrible happening, there are hundreds that don't. we just don't post that everything is doing fine.

some people like to tinker with their bikes. most of us just ride them.

Kinda like the news not reporting that millions of bikers had a friggin' blast today.  Still, I appreciate the advice and take it seriously.  I will definitely have the splines checked out.  If they are moly lubed before any damage happens to them, are they generally good to go until the next tire change? 

Damn, missing Mr. Leno.  I'm becoming --gulp -- Valkoholic.

[shooter64]

About the petcock: I recommend that you turn the petcock off every time you turn the key off. I go one step further, when I am about to park the Valk for the night, I turn the petcock off about a mile before I get home and let it run almost dry before parking in my shed. Gonna get a pingle soon.

PS I thought the same as you when I first bought mine. Reading on the tech forum and archives, I thought OMG, this thing is so complicated maybe I should have bought a Sabre or something. Then I realized that this forum is just like every other one, only the few problems and issues to stay on top of are reported. If you read any other forum with a tech/maintenance board there are reports of problems. These reports have actually been very helpful to me to learn from other people's experiences before I have the same problem.

[Jabba]

I have two valks.  I have only driven the cage 3 times since april.

one had an alternator go out... and I think that was MY fault... and other than that... neither of them have let me down in 10 years and 50K miles.

Dude... don't sweat the splines thing.  they SHOULD do it when you get tires.  Ask them to.  Also tell them you want them to pull the driveshaft from the pinion and let you inspect them.  it's about a 2 minute thing, and will add a lot of piece of mind.

Keep this in mind though... you are NOT supposed to moly lube the driveshaft and pinion cup.  That's designed to be lubricated by the oil in the final drive.  When you do the splines there are 3 O-rings to replace.  I'd buy some from carolina bike and trike, and take them with you when you get tire work done.

I have done 6 final drives this year.  only 1 of them was because of a failure, and that was due to simple neglect.  The other 5 were for maintenance, and because I had friends buy Valks, and I wanted to KNOW that the rear ends were RIGHT.  If you can change your oil... you can do a final drive.  OK... maybe not THAT easy... but it's pretty easy.  Valks are simple machines, and will serve you VERY well if you just service them.

Jabba

[Michvalk]

If you read closely, a lot of the posts you are talking about start out with " got my bike out after sitting for a few months". If the bike has to sit, it needs to be put up for storage. I live in Michigan, and have to put it away for a few months. I have never had carb problems, or trouble with the petcock, or hydrolock (Thank god). The key is to do the right maintance at the right time. In your case, the bike is new to you, and should have the maintance done so you have a starting point to work from. There isn't any maintance that needs to be done that can't be performed in the driveway with a lift adapter, and a fairly inexpensive lift. Get with some guys in your area, and have a wrench party, get the preventative stuff done, and ride. 

[JC]

I felt the same way as you when I found my Valk about 4 years ago. If you have even a little mechanical skill as mentioned already, then you shouldn't have any problem with most of the maintenance. The key is to do your homework by researching here on the board and don't be afraid to ask if you don't know. Getting to know your girl will save you lots of money and frustration in the long run, because (many of) the dealers don't have a tech that even knows what a Valkyrie is anymore.

Don't sweat the petty things, and don't pet the sweaty things!

[F6Dave]

I think we Valk owners fret about these things because the bikes are so bullet proof that we have nothing else to worry about!

As for the drive splines, from what I've seen nearly all the damaged ones were the result of improper rear wheel installation.  As long as you torque all the nuts in the proper sequence they will last forever.  The grease you use matters very little.  My '98 has over 160K miles.  For the first 90K I greased them with some Valvoline multi purpose grease I bought back in the '70s.  That ran out so now I use Mobil 1 grease.  The drive splines still look like new.  I probably could have used WD40.

I ignored the driveshaft for the first 40K miles.  When I finally removed it because of all the warnings I read, it looked just fine.  I now remove and lube it at every tire change, which is probably overkill.  BTW, I never loosened the 4 final drive nuts during those first 40K miles.  If the final drive is properly aligned, it will stay aligned if you don’t mess with it.

My other Valk, a ’99 IS with 85K miles, has been treated the same, and all the driveline parts still look like new.

As for the petcock, it is a very typical design.  The problem is that with downdraft carbs, leaking fuel can get into the cylinder and cause hydro-lock.  The carbs on my old BMW air head leak all the time, but with side draft carbs the fuel drips on my boots instead of into the cylinders!

One option to sleep better is to replace the petcock or add an electric valve.  But I just follow some advice Daniel Meyer gave a while back.  Every time you remove the tank (like to replace the air filter) make sure you test the petcock.  There should be no fuel flowing with the knob in any of the three positions.  I keep a spare cover set (about $30 from HDL) handy, and rebuild the petcock if I see any flow at all.  The rebuild literally takes about 5 minutes.

The Valk is one of the most reliable bikes ever made.  There’s not much to worry about.  Just ride and enjoy!

[john]

" some people like to tinker with their bikes. most of us just ride them. "             

" The Valk is one of the most reliable bikes ever made.  There’s not much to worry about.  Just ride and enjoy! "                     

             i belive that             

[sugerbear]

My Valk has 90k miles and I have owned it since new.  Still using the OE petcock and never had a problem or a leak.  The rear pumpkin is in great shape and no spline damage at all.

do you turn it on and off all the time?

[Thespian]

 I'm not a dark side'r but this vid did encourage me to do my rear tire swap-out myself.

Rear Wheel Removal	powered by Aeva

I got the bolt on adapter, used an atv lift and jack stands to keep the bike stable in the air, and a floor jack to drop the tire and lift it back into place. O rings are cheep I will be replacing them each tire change when I re-lube. 

 Starter switch started to go on me (ouch!) I need to add a relay so the lights aren't running through it any more. Too much power for the small contacts seams to be the problem, I gather.

Ride safe and often! 

[cookiedough]

Just have the shop service/lube the rear splines, etc. next time in for a rear tire replacement.  Personally,  I wouldn't take it into a shop just to get the splines checked since in probably 1-2 years (about every 10-13K miles) you will need a new rear tire (not a car tire).  Just make sure every rear tire change the shop checks/lubes the rear end. 

As far as petcock/hyrdolock, have heard of it but don't worry about it.  I figure if it happens I will deal with it then.  I leave my petcock on all the time since my theory is if it isn't broke, don't fix it(leave it alone).  However,  you should for winter storage use fuel stabilizer/seafoam and run it a few miles around town at least and then since going to sit in colder weather not being run for 3-4 months, shut the fuel petcock off for longer storage not being ridden for sure. 

I'm currently having issues with my starter switch housing not turning my lights on and just today for first time could not start my I/S in 1st gear with clutch pulled in and kickstand up, had to put the bike in neutral to start.  These I think are far more common issues than hydrolock/petcock/spline issues.

[Valkorado]

Guys, I am starting to like this forum almost as much as my Valkyrie. 

I had an awesome weekend enjoying the changing colors in the Colorado Rockies; I sure ain't too scared of my bike to ride the hell out of it.  Good God, that engine!  I still feel like Slim Pickens riding the missile in the Pink Panther movie.  Good stuff!

I really appreciate all the good advice, and I look forward to meeting some regional VRCC members soon.

Thanks again. 

[rmcnelly]

I recently purchased a '98 standard with only 13,000 miles on it.  The previous owner had only owned it for 1 year and spent a lot of money getting the carbs cleaned and sorted and had the petcock rebuilt.  Within 3 weeks of my ownership the petcock stopped allowing gas to flow even with the vacuum from another source.  I moved the diaphram spring to the fuel side as a temp fix allowing it to be used in manual only mode and ordered a Pingel.  the converted petcock was still functioning manually and did not flow fuel in the "Off" position.  During a 1400 mile trip the now converted manual only petcock still had problems, once continuing to flow fuel from the "On" position even though I only had less than 1/2 gal left in the tank (the bike didn't sputter telling me to switch to reserve with about 1 gallon left as it usually does).

When I returned from the trip I installed the Pingel.  As I was removing the stock petcock I noticed it was still flowing fuel even in the "Off" position.  The Pingel is an easy swap and has increased my confidence in the bike.

Prior to the trip I had the Honda Dealer pull the rear wheel to take a look at the splines which were ok and had him lube them up with moly paste.  He broke a ratchet getting the axle loose as it must have been severely over-tightened.  I felt better having previously bought a ST1100 whose splines were very worn at 28,000 miles due to the previous owner never servicing them.

When the tires need replacement I'll upgrade the valve stems to chrome ones to remove any chance the stock rubber ones will crack and leave me stranded somewhere.

[Rio Wil]

So Valkorado, you have hear from a wide cross section of Valk riders......some that ride 3-5K per year and change the oil only once a year and tires last for for many seasons. On the other end you hear from high mileage riders that eat up two (or more)front tires per year and change their oil at 5K mile intervals which means 6-7 times per year. I was eating 3-4 rear tires per year til I went darkside with a Pirelli P4 that lasted 60K miles. At 35K miles per year, your looking at pulling the rear tire for spline inspection maybe 2-3 times per year.....failure to do so can cause nasty surprises. I suspect that high speed cruising and exuberant riding probably contribute to spline wear as much as anything. Probably the opposite is true also, if the bike seldom sees over 4K rpm and only grandma shifting, spline maintenance can probably go many months and miles....I got a rude surprise this last time I checked at splines at a 15K interval, the pinion/flange splines were fine, but the drive shaft/pinion cup splines were toast. The were fine the previous 15K inspection, and they still had lots of lube (no red rust), so I am perplexed as to the cause.  I posted a picture of these parts a few weeks  ago...heck, here they are again. I put it back together using some slightly less used parts while waiting on the new stuff to arrive so a RR  is due pretty quickly here. So the point is, from a casual low mileage rider, things might last forever, but if you ride it like ya stole it, you need to keep the maintenance up on these two areas and not just trust that some dealer 'should' have serviced the splines. So I still yould suggest you get with someone in Denver to do a inspection soon and set a baseline for future service.  Not really that hard to do.....just can be a bit messy tho....  If you are handy with wood tools, you can make the adapter to fit under the Valk, someone posted directions and dimensions on how to make it. I made one and have used it many times.....works fine. It is not a permanent bolt on tho...  My bike had 20K at purchase, rode it 2400 miles home and did a spline inspection.  The red rust was just starting, no lube visible, called the seller and he had never heard of spline service....or that they ever needed it. On another note, the spark plugs last forever, Replaced them out of guilt at 100K and there was no difference with the new ones installed.  The new ones now have 70K and will again out of guilt will replace at 200K. Still am using the original air filter, cleaned it  once after returning from Alaska, maybe will replace at 200K....again out of guilt...It really wasn't dirty, hard for dirt to do a 180 degree turn to enter the filter, Honda did good with that design. Don't bother to try and improve on the stock filter and housing design, Honda did it right the first time.  Some folks changed to K&N air filter...not necessary tho.....Keep track of your oil consumption the first oil change, if you are down only a  few ounces after 5K  miles, just change it at 5K intervals and don't bother to check any more....nice! Since you are in Denver, you will likely get a chance for some cold snowless riding, so ya gotta learn to use the choke properly. Pushing it down the first 3/4 inch against light resistance does "ABSOLUTELY NOTHING', pushing down another 3/4 inch against 'VERY STIFF RESISTANCE'  engages the choke function.  DO NOT open the throttle at all, hands off the throttle!  When the rpm starts to run up to 2000-2500 start easing off the choke and you are good to go.... 

So, ya got a great bike, ride and enjoy....it just don't get no gooder than a clear view of the open road in front of you.....and a hand full of throttle!!

[MP]

Using paragraphs really helps those of us with old eyes be able to read a post!  LOL

MP

[Valkorado]

Since you are in Denver, you will likely get a chance for some cold snowless riding ...

Thanks for all the great info everyone.  Rio, the pictures really are worth a thousand words, that looked like a spendy repair.  I am poor, which is why I may one day seriously consider the Dark Side.

I only wish I could get in some cold snowless riding in the winter.  I'm actually in Gunnison, Colorado (Google it, arguably the coldest spot in the U.S. of A).  NO riding from late October or early November through April.  It is cruel and unusual punishment, and makes me want to cry just thinking about it.

[Rio Wil]

Using paragraphs really helps those of us with old eyes be able to read a post!  LOL

MP

Hehehe.....I am getting old....I don't have time to make paragraphs.....next to go will be apostrophes ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' '

[Rio Wil]

NO riding from late October or early November through April.  It is cruel and unusual punishment, and makes me want to cry just thinking about it.

Sometimes I forget how good we have it in CA, standard riding apparel from May to November is a t-shirt, short pants and tennis shoes.  From November to April, just throw the frog togs over the summer uniform and enjoy the experience of riding in the rain.... ....it really does get a bit chilly, low 30's but you can still ride year round. There is no such thing as putting up the bike for the winter.....I spent a year in Denver at Lowery AFB in electronics school and thoroughly enjoyed the surrounding area.  Thought I would like to end up there until I got hooked on the benefits of living in Northern CA.......except for the kooks  that run this state. The Valk is a hugely addicting machine, yesterday my wife needed some okra, sausage, shrimp and tomatos to make a gumbo. The shrimp place is east, the vegetable stand is  west, the sausage place is north.....but like a dutiful husband I accepted the responsibility of providing for my wife and spent the next 4 hours and 140 miles doing just that....and came home with the goods and enjoyed the ride with a cup of Peet's coffee along the ride.. so enjoy your riding time in the mountains.....lots of beautiful country to ride..

[whitestroke]

Rio Wil
Think the rear end might be low on oil, so its not splashing through the holes in pinion cup?

[PharmBoy]

Cookiedough...

Check out the electrical switch operated by the clutch.  Sometimes the switch has gone bad and sometimes there is too much play in the clutch pin to operate a good switch.  (easily checked with any cheap multimeter)...Jim

[Rio Wil]

Rio Wil
Think the rear end might be low on oil, so its not splashing through the holes in pinion cup?

Thats a good thought, I did spill a fair puddle of the oil when draining it to refill, but still removed 4.5 oz and it only holds 5.7 or so.....

[Valkorado]

I have two valks.  I have only driven the cage 3 times since april.

one had an alternator go out... and I think that was MY fault... and other than that... neither of them have let me down in 10 years and 50K miles.

Dude... don't sweat the splines thing.  they SHOULD do it when you get tires.  Ask them to.  Also tell them you want them to pull the driveshaft from the pinion and let you inspect them.  it's about a 2 minute thing, and will add a lot of piece of mind.

Keep this in mind though... you are NOT supposed to moly lube the driveshaft and pinion cup.  That's designed to be lubricated by the oil in the final drive.  When you do the splines there are 3 O-rings to replace.  I'd buy some from carolina bike and trike, and take them with you when you get tire work done.

I have done 6 final drives this year.  only 1 of them was because of a failure, and that was due to simple neglect.  The other 5 were for maintenance, and because I had friends buy Valks, and I wanted to KNOW that the rear ends were RIGHT.  If you can change your oil... you can do a final drive.  OK... maybe not THAT easy... but it's pretty easy.  Valks are simple machines, and will serve you VERY well if you just service them.

Jabba

A lot of good information there, Jabba.  Thanks.

[kermit]

Where do you live?  Lots of folks (myself included) are willing to teach/do the work, loan tools and facilities.  Hook up with the locals.

Guess i must live in the wrong country or state....Don't know to much about my fatlady but sure do love her wish i knew some one that lived close to me to give me a hand with her...Any one live in the Niagara Falls Ontario or close by that is willing to give me hand with the bike i know dick crap about it and not to mechanically incline but willing to learn is some one has enough patience to teach an old frenchman new things...hope to hear from some one that lives near by thanks.....

[Ricky-D]

I have two valks.  I have only driven the cage 3 times since april.

one had an alternator go out... and I think that was MY fault... and other than that... neither of them have let me down in 10 years and 50K miles.

Dude... don't sweat the splines thing.  they SHOULD do it when you get tires.  Ask them to.  Also tell them you want them to pull the driveshaft from the pinion and let you inspect them.  it's about a 2 minute thing, and will add a lot of piece of mind.

Keep this in mind though... you are NOT supposed to moly lube the driveshaft and pinion cup.  That's designed to be lubricated by the oil in the final drive.  When you do the splines there are 3 O-rings to replace.  I'd buy some from carolina bike and trike, and take them with you when you get tire work done.

I have done 6 final drives this year.  only 1 of them was because of a failure, and that was due to simple neglect.  The other 5 were for maintenance, and because I had friends buy Valks, and I wanted to KNOW that the rear ends were RIGHT.  If you can change your oil... you can do a final drive.  OK... maybe not THAT easy... but it's pretty easy.  Valks are simple machines, and will serve you VERY well if you just service them.

Jabba

Apologies for thrashing this again but it should not go without comment that the statement is incorrect in both instances.

Firstly, it suggests by omission, that the assembly should be assembled dry which is incorrect.

Secondly, as a buttress for the first part, the statement implies an unproven assumption (self oiling) will take care of the lubrication needs of the pinion cup and drive shaft.

Both wrong.

I welcome a new thread expounding on the properties of the self lubricating pinion cup, if there are any willing to start it up.

***

[RP#62]

Apologies for thrashing this again but it should not go without comment that the statement is incorrect in both instances.

Firstly, it suggests by omission, that the assembly should be assembled dry which is incorrect.

Secondly, as a buttress for the first part, the statement implies an unproven assumption (self oiling) will take care of the lubrication needs of the pinion cup and drive shaft.

Both wrong.

I welcome a new thread expounding on the properties of the self lubricating pinion cup, if there are any willing to start it up.

***

Ricky, you speak in absolute terms as if you know that your assumption is the correct one.  Please cite your sources.  Unless you have something from Honda describing the design of the final drive, your assumption is just as unproven as all other assumptions.  A thread to further discuss this would prove nothing without Honda Engineering weighing in - we'd just be pooling our ignorance.

-RP

[Ricky-D]

Apologies for thrashing this again but it should not go without comment that the statement is incorrect in both instances.

Firstly, it suggests by omission, that the assembly should be assembled dry which is incorrect.

Secondly, as a buttress for the first part, the statement implies an unproven assumption (self oiling) will take care of the lubrication needs of the pinion cup and drive shaft.

Both wrong.

I welcome a new thread expounding on the properties of the self lubricating pinion cup, if there are any willing to start it up.

***

Ricky, you speak in absolute terms as if you know that your assumption is the correct one.  Please cite your sources.  Unless you have something from Honda describing the design of the final drive, your assumption is just as unproven as all other assumptions.  A thread to further discuss this would prove nothing without Honda Engineering weighing in - we'd just be pooling our ignorance.

-RP

Well RP, you can speak for yourself about ignorance but, what you do say is wrongheaded for any number of reasons.

You are defending reassembling the drive shaft and pinion cup without lubrication as I read your objection to my statement.

There is no pumping arrangement withing the drive unit (pumpkin) that will insure the (drive shaft/pinion cup) are lubricated.

It doesn't take a genius to recognize the errors that you are, by you own words, inferring they are proper and correct.

You let your prejudices overcome your good sense, criticizing what should be clearly evident as needing reinforcement as opposed to bringing in specious arguments.

***

[Valkpilot]

No need for a new thread on the subject. 

It was well thrashed in this one: http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,20177.0.html

And in this one: http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,36114.0.html

Readers can make up their own minds based on the cases presented by each side.

I've concluded that the accumulated circumstantial evidence (pinion cup machining, the very light lubrication of the pinion joint specified in the manual, and patent abstracts) and direct evidence (weeping pinion cup holes, "wet" cup and drive shaft splines when disassembled,) combined with the very compelling explanations provided by Daniel Meyer, favors the drive-oil-lubes-the-pinion-joint side of the argument.

[Earl in Pensacola]

My 2 cents!!  Original Owner-'97 Tourer-now at 258K

Complete Rear end rebuild done at 83K no chg.  under Warranty- Bike had always been "serviced" by dealership, including tires--They never once pulled the drive shaft to properly service it during the first 83K!!  They always just cleaned and lubed the shaft spline.

I now have the drive shaft pulled and everything cleaned and relubed (+ "O"-rings) including drain and refil of "pumpkin" with each rear tire replacement.   I average 20K on each rear tire!!

I'm still using the original fuel shut off valve.  I NEVER turn it off except for service work like air filter replacement or a vacation that I'm not on the bike or if I'm trailering the bike.

I do have a Harbor freight lift and NO adapter.  I DO have a Rivco center stand that I use for all misc. service like oil and filter changes and wheel cleaning etc.  I use the lift (plus three pieces  of 2"X4" under the engine)  to lift the bike for front and/or rear tire changes. NO problem!!

Suggestion: Install a simple voltage meter, so as to watch for a drop in alternator output.  I usually pull the alternator approximately every 60K for cleaning, bearing and brushes replacement.



 

[Ricky-D]

There have been only a handful of any kind of posting that reference a wet/oiled pinion cup and drive shaft being observed upon disassembly.

This can not, nor should not, be considered as evidence in the "self oiling" controversy.

My view, is that it's most likely the result of over filling the case with lubricant.

Although there are probably arguments against overfilling the case I must admit that doing just so may have a benefit when discussing the pinion cup/drive shaft coupling lubrication dilemma.

It seems to me that the (quantity of oil) recommendation (for the final drive) is a very small amount of oil actually.

Whatever the criteria used for determining how many threads are enough, it should be incumbent on all to welcome discussion, rather than dissuade.

***

[Valkpilot]

I apologize for inadequate phrasing.  

It wasn't my intent to try and dissuade from discussion.  Instead, I'd rather see the discussion continued in existing relevant threads so that previously presented information doesn't have to be brought forward again.

[RP#62]

Apologies for thrashing this again but it should not go without comment that the statement is incorrect in both instances.

Firstly, it suggests by omission, that the assembly should be assembled dry which is incorrect.

Secondly, as a buttress for the first part, the statement implies an unproven assumption (self oiling) will take care of the lubrication needs of the pinion cup and drive shaft.

Both wrong.

I welcome a new thread expounding on the properties of the self lubricating pinion cup, if there are any willing to start it up.

***

Ricky, you speak in absolute terms as if you know that your assumption is the correct one.  Please cite your sources.  Unless you have something from Honda describing the design of the final drive, your assumption is just as unproven as all other assumptions.  A thread to further discuss this would prove nothing without Honda Engineering weighing in - we'd just be pooling our ignorance.

-RP

Well RP, you can speak for yourself about ignorance but, what you do say is wrongheaded for any number of reasons.

You are defending reassembling the drive shaft and pinion cup without lubrication as I read your objection to my statement.

There is no pumping arrangement withing the drive unit (pumpkin) that will insure the (drive shaft/pinion cup) are lubricated.

It doesn't take a genius to recognize the errors that you are, by you own words, inferring they are proper and correct.

You let your prejudices overcome your good sense, criticizing what should be clearly evident as needing reinforcement as opposed to bringing in specious arguments.

***

Ricky, I wasn't defending or inferring any such thing, that was your inference.  I was out and out stating that for someone to declare something as fact when it is merely their opinion is wrong headed.  And without citing proof to the contrary, to state that anyone else's opinion is wrong is just arrogant.  I actually agree with what you are saying.  I have a similar opinion, however it is just an opinion as I don't know what Honda's intention was with the holes - I don't see it discussed in the manual and I haven't spoken with the design engineer, I can only speculate and that's all you can do. 

I keep the holes open, I lube the splines with a light coat of moly grease on assembly.  My splines show no sign of wear and they are always wet with oil when I take it apart, and its been that way for the last 100,000 miles on my bike.  It may be oil mist that makes its way in to the cup, I don't know, but there's no mistaking the smell of gear oil.  We can all debate the design and its purpose, but without anyway to prove the designer's intent, we may as well debate how many angels can stand on the head of a pin. (If you come back with a definitive statement on how many angels can stand on the head of a pin, my head's going to blow up).

-RP