Rear Spline Failure....now what?

[Oklahoma_Valk]

Well fellas, turns out my anxiety about what my final drive splines might look like came true.

The splines are basically shot, best I can tell. Inside the hub, and on the wheel.

I know this is an open ended question....but what do I do next? Buy new final drive parts? Im planning on taking the shaft etc apart tomorrow to investigate any wear there. The wheel splines were all I could emotionally bear tonight.

ive attached a couple of photos of the splines. Do I buy new parts from HDL? which parts if so?





Fat lady in the air for the first time (probably ever) today.

[ptgb]

Yep, gonna need a new final drive and drive flange. As far as buying new... good luck. If you can get it from Honda I m sure you will have sticker shock; big $$$$. It looks as if good used ones are being hoarded now.

Right now there are three final drives on eBay... one looks ok, the rest you can't tell from the pictures, the condition. I think they are starting to think these are made of gold as the prices on 2 of them are outrageous!

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=valkyrie+final+drive&_sacat=0&_odkw=valkyrie+final+drive&_osacat=0&_from=R40

Good Luck. And get the driveshaft out and check it and the pinion cup... so you know where you stand.

[Grumpy]

There is another way, I picked up a 1500 wing final drive, tore it down and pressed the spline out of the ring gear, and installed it in the Valkyrie final drive. Link to the message. http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,46978.0.html

[whitestroke]

Looks to me for about $400. you can get the new part in your picture and the mating spline.
http://www.hdlparts.com/fiche_section_detail.asp?section=2136860&category=Motorcycles&make=HONDA&year=1998&fveh=124890

Why buy used?

[salty1]

I'm with Whitestroke, buy new from HDL. Then service that drive every 10K miles. Sorry for your misfortune!

[SpidyJ]

Absolutely buy new.....she's a beauty and well worth it!

[Patrick]

I agree with buying new parts,, but,, I'd suggest looking at the u-joint and drive shaft before going much further..

[bscrive]

I bought the new parts for mine last year at HDL.  All the parts came to about $500.  I also bought a used final drive off ebay just in case I couldn't get the final drive done in time for my Caribbean cruise with the bike.  The one I bought off ebay still has lots of life on it but not nearly as good as having a new one and I paid almost $300 with the shipping for it.  The new parts make the bike feel new again.  Take the other guys advice, buy the parts new.

[Oklahoma_Valk]

I greatly appreciate everyone's advice. I further investigated today. Removed the drive shaft and took the hub (final drive assy) apart. Everything looks fine, other than the above mentioned final drive gear and wheel flange. It sucks to out the $400-$500 bucks. but Hopefully it will be a one time fix.

I think Im just going to go ahead and buy the new parts. That seems to be the consensus. And hey....you cant go wrong with brand new. 


thanks,

James

[SpidyJ]

You're lucky you're not repairing Hydro-Lok.........> $2k at a stealer!

[Oklahoma_Valk]

One thing is for sure: I will definitely know my bike inside and out after this repair.

Even after this $500 in repair, I only have $2000 in the beast. Not a bad dividend. Just sucks to do all of these repairs.

[Fudd]

One thing is for sure: I will definitely know my bike inside and out after this repair.

Even after this $500 in repair, I only have $2000 in the beast. Not a bad dividend. Just sucks to do all of these repairs.

I just spewed coffee through my nose all over my computer screen!

Are you trying to say you only paid $1500 for that gorgeous bike?

[salty1]

$1500 ???     Has to be a typo!

[Oklahoma_Valk]

No boys there is no typo here. I paid $1000 for the old Shadow Spirit. Traded the shadow plus $800 for the valk. I guess you could say I've made a few GOOD trades.

$1800 in the valk, before this repair that is.

[fudgie]

How you get a deal like that?   

[ptgb]

Well, Hell's Bell's..... I'll take that broke Valk off your hands for $2500. Just think of the profit you'll make!

[salty1]

No boys there is no typo here. I paid $1000 for the old Shadow Spirit. Traded the shadow plus $800 for the valk. I guess you could say I've made a few GOOD trades.

$1800 in the valk, before this repair that is.

No "Sheet" Jose!!!

[Rudy]

Just curious, how many miles on your bike? At what mileage do you guys see these spline wear problems occurring?   I am guessing you are a good poker player, I know I sure couldn't have kept a good poker face on through that trade for your Valk !      Nice bike !!

[Fritz The Cat]

I feel your pain. Just went through this myself, it was no fun at all. 

[Patrick]

Well, once its and done correctly you'll be fine and if its properly maintained every 10-15K it'll last forever[almost].. Especially for what you have invested in this monster..

[Oklahoma_Valk]

Just curious, how many miles on your bike? At what mileage do you guys see these spline wear problems occurring?   I am guessing you are a good poker player, I know I sure couldn't have kept a good poker face on through that trade for your Valk !      Nice bike !!

I am  terrible poker player. But have a great poker face. My bike has 72k miles on the odo. But many here also have more than that and have never had problems. It's not the mileage that wears them out. Its the lack of lubrication/maintenance. Which mine probably hasnt had in....72k miles.

[BIG--T]

Yep, gonna need a new final drive and drive flange. As far as buying new... good luck. If you can get it from Honda I m sure you will have sticker shock; big $$$$. It looks as if good used ones are being hoarded now.

Right now there are three final drives on eBay... one looks ok, the rest you can't tell from the pictures, the condition. I think they are starting to think these are made of gold as the prices on 2 of them are outrageous!

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=valkyrie+final+drive&_sacat=0&_odkw=valkyrie+final+drive&_osacat=0&_from=R40

Good Luck. And get the driveshaft out and check it and the pinion cup... so you know where you stand.

I checked that site  and can't believe the prices $250- $600+ and don't even know what condition they're in!!  Yeah I'd buy new and ya know what ya got. This is what scares me about when it comes to parts. There's a lot of parts Honda don't carry and ppl hoarding them makes it very scary plus the fact when the parts from the GW that interchange are gone...I don't even want to think about it! Parts for her now are high enough. I was going to buy a I/S and I found out this dude takes low mileage, beautiful Valks showroom and parts them out!! That was just last week and I thought he was joking at first. If we got together on a trade he was gonna part mine out ...with 15k and she is pristine! When he first used the term "part em out" I asked him" oh you mean wrecked or needs paint?" He said no, in excellent condition!! SOoo, that tells me all I need to know!!  Man I'm in the wrong business!!  

[Oklahoma_Valk]

Yep, gonna need a new final drive and drive flange. As far as buying new... good luck. If you can get it from Honda I m sure you will have sticker shock; big $$$$. It looks as if good used ones are being hoarded now.

Right now there are three final drives on eBay... one looks ok, the rest you can't tell from the pictures, the condition. I think they are starting to think these are made of gold as the prices on 2 of them are outrageous!

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=valkyrie+final+drive&_sacat=0&_odkw=valkyrie+final+drive&_osacat=0&_from=R40

Good Luck. And get the driveshaft out and check it and the pinion cup... so you know where you stand.

I checked that site  and can't believe the prices $250- $600+ and don't even know what condition they're in!!  Yeah I'd buy new and ya know what ya got. This is what scares me about when it comes to parts. There's a lot of parts Honda don't carry and ppl hoarding them makes it very scary plus the fact when the parts from the GW that interchange are gone...I don't even want to think about it! Parts for her now are high enough. I was going to buy a I/S and I found out this dude takes low mileage, beautiful Valks showroom and parts them out!! That was just last week and I thought he was joking at first. If we got together on a trade he was gonna part mine out ...with 15k and she is pristine! When he first used the term "part em out" I asked him" oh you mean wrecked or needs paint?" He said no, in excellent condition!! SOoo, that tells me all I need to know!!   Man I'm in the wrong business!! 

so what you're saying is we need to be in the valk choppin business, not valk riding business! Hehehe. In another 10 years we'll really be hoarding parts.

[BIG--T]

Yep, gonna need a new final drive and drive flange. As far as buying new... good luck. If you can get it from Honda I m sure you will have sticker shock; big $$$$. It looks as if good used ones are being hoarded now.

Right now there are three final drives on eBay... one looks ok, the rest you can't tell from the pictures, the condition. I think they are starting to think these are made of gold as the prices on 2 of them are outrageous!

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=valkyrie+final+drive&_sacat=0&_odkw=valkyrie+final+drive&_osacat=0&_from=R40

Good Luck. And get the driveshaft out and check it and the pinion cup... so you know where you stand.

I checked that site  and can't believe the prices $250- $600+ and don't even know what condition they're in!!  Yeah I'd buy new and ya know what ya got. This is what scares me about when it comes to parts. There's a lot of parts Honda don't carry and ppl hoarding them makes it very scary plus the fact when the parts from the GW that interchange are gone...I don't even want to think about it! Parts for her now are high enough. I was going to buy a I/S and I found out this dude takes low mileage, beautiful Valks showroom and parts them out!! That was just last week and I thought he was joking at first. If we got together on a trade he was gonna part mine out ...with 15k and she is pristine! When he first used the term "part em out" I asked him" oh you mean wrecked or needs paint?" He said no, in excellent condition!! SOoo, that tells me all I need to know!!   Man I'm in the wrong business!! 

so what you're saying is we need to be in the valk choppin business, not valk riding business! Hehehe. In another 10 years we'll really be hoarding parts.

The people doing it must be making a killing!! People have been hoarding for a long time and a bunch are on this forum!   

[hubcapsc]

The people doing it must be making a killing!! People have been hoarding for a long time and a bunch are on this forum!   

I bet it is a whole lot like work parting out a motorcycle, listing it all on eBay, boxing all the little
bits and pieces up and getting them delivered to all the right people, communicating with all
the buyers...

I hate to see Valkyries parted out, but that is where we get many of our parts from. I have
a pinwall final drive, and one from a trike, plus the chewed up one that was on my bike when
I got it. I don't think you can buy a complete final drive from Honda anymore... get one from a
parted out bike, or rebuild one...

-Mike

[BIG--T]

The people doing it must be making a killing!! People have been hoarding for a long time and a bunch are on this forum!   

I bet it is a whole lot like work parting out a motorcycle, listing it all on eBay, boxing all the little
bits and pieces up and getting them delivered to all the right people, communicating with all
the buyers...

I hate to see Valkyries parted out, but that is where we get many of our parts from. I have
a pinwall final drive, and one from a trike, plus the chewed up one that was on my bike when
I got it. I don't think you can buy a complete final drive from Honda anymore... get one from a
parted out bike, or rebuild one...

-Mike

Yeah, it hurts me just to think about parting out a Valkyrie in SHOWROOM condition!  Yes those guy must work hard strippning and packaging one but I bet they must double their money or come close to it! When a guy tell me he might part out an I/S he's wanting $8900 with 7k miles, pristine that tell me something!   

Yes I agree to rebuild one and ya know what ya got!

Mike, Will you have time to help me put on a new tire and check the spline, shaft and everything that needs to be checked before the FCR?

[hubcapsc]

Mike, Will you have time to help me put on a new tire and check the spline, shaft and everything that needs to be checked before the FCR?

I don't know about the "everything" part  ...

I'll be gone next weekend. If you wanted to look into it Saturday (Oct. 6)
we could see what's in there and get the tire swapped. Have you ever
taken the wheel off yourself? I guess you have a lift and adapter?

If your bike doesn't go back together on Saturday, there ought to be time to
get it back together before the FCR...

-Mike

[BIG--T]

Mike, Will you have time to help me put on a new tire and check the spline, shaft and everything that needs to be checked before the FCR?

I don't know about the "everything" part  ...

I'll be gone next weekend. If you wanted to look into it Saturday (Oct. 6)
we could see what's in there and get the tire swapped. Have you ever
taken the wheel off yourself? I guess you have a lift and adapter?

If your bike doesn't go back together on Saturday, there ought to be time to
get it back together before the FCR...

-Mike

"I don't know about the "everything" part  ..."

I'm not talking about taking the whole driveline apart!  I just got 17k on her and all this spline failure talk got my attention! I know I need to clean the factory grease from the spline and put some Moly on it. What I don't know is anything about the drive shaft part and U joints. Should I even worry about that part with the low mileage? I do need a rear tire bad especially going on the FCR. 

[Oklahoma_Valk]

I followed this guide within the shoptalk section: http://www.valkyrieriders.com/shoptalk/TireChangeSplineLube.htm

It helped a lot.

i found that if you just take your time, work slowly, and have a spare can of penetrating oil on hand (for those sticky bolts) a complete rear end service is pretty simple.

It's been a real confidence booster, getting to know the ins and outs of my valk through this service. DO have a motorcycle lift and lift adapter on hand though. The service is impossible without them.

Also, I say you SHOULD check out all of the parts, even with the low mileage. It's better to find potential problems in the comfort of your garage, than to have ACTUAL problems out on the road somewhere.

Cheers
-James

[Ricky-D]

I would not be hesitant about getting a new pumpkin, a newly reconditioned pumpkin, or a well rebuilt pumpkin.

And I don't feel that the price should be a prohibitive component in the equation, whatever the price would be.

Reason I say this is that most failures of the drive splines are due to lack of knowledge of proper maintenance for the pumpkin.

Once a owner realizes what has occurred, and what is needed to prevent the same from happening again, it ought to be a non-starter from then on in.

So to me, the best thing is to get a good reconditioned, new or whatever and not be concerned about the cost since it ought to be a "one time" fix, period.

Maintain it and you should never see the problem again!

***

[hubcapsc]

Mike, Will you have time to help me put on a new tire and check the spline, shaft and everything that needs to be checked before the FCR?

I don't know about the "everything" part  ...

I'll be gone next weekend. If you wanted to look into it Saturday (Oct. 6)
we could see what's in there and get the tire swapped. Have you ever
taken the wheel off yourself? I guess you have a lift and adapter?

If your bike doesn't go back together on Saturday, there ought to be time to
get it back together before the FCR...

-Mike

"I don't know about the "everything" part  ..."

I'm not talking about taking the whole driveline apart!  I just got 17k on her and all this spline failure talk got my attention! I know I need to clean the factory grease from the spline and put some Moly on it. What I don't know is anything about the drive shaft part and U joints. Should I even worry about that part with the low mileage? I do need a rear tire bad especially going on the FCR. 

If the tire is coming off, everything except the u-joint itself is easy to check. Checking the u-joint
means fighting the u-joint boot, so it is a little harder to check. You can feel for the u-joint through
the boot, but it might take experience (I don't have) to know what you are feeling for. I check everything
but the u-joint with every tire. The wheel comes off, and then with four bolts the final drive pulls out along
with the drive shaft. Oklahoma_Valk is right on about it not being hard, and there's lots of help here...

-Mike

[Chrisj CMA]

the part of the U-joint boot that is a royal PITA is the aft side.  If you peel teh forward side (easy to get back on) you can sneak a peak at most of the U-joiont and will be able to detect gross wear at least

[BIG--T]

I think I'll leave the U joint alone for now bc it sounds like it'll be a pain according to both of you. Sooo, I think I'll just slap some grease on the spline and put the tire on and the next tire change I'll have to go all the way through it.

[Oklahoma_Valk]

Go to the left side column and click on "Rear end service by Chris J"

http://www.valkyrieriders.com/shoptalk/



Awesome detailed instructions w photos. The file is in powerpoint format. So make sure you have a program on your computer that will read a powerpoint file.

Cheers-

[BIG--T]

Go to the left side column and click on "Rear end service by Chris J"

http://www.valkyrieriders.com/shoptalk/



Awesome detailed instructions w photos. The file is in powerpoint format. So make sure you have a program on your computer that will read a powerpoint file.

Cheers-

Now I got a better idea of how it goes! Thanks for the link!  Thanks Chris for your write up!!

[Oklahoma_Valk]

Ok fellas. New parts from HDL arrived today. I must say "they are beautifull"

And Ive invested in some good Honda Moly paste. The ONLY problem, is that when I ordered my new parts, the "Elusive 3rd O-ring" holder did not come with the new final drive gear.

The part number is #14 on this schematic. The piece is a pressed-in, brass colored collar. It forms the ridge on which the 3rd Oring sits.

So if anyone in the future must replace their final drive gears/splines....dont forget to order this part!!! You'll be doing what Im doing.....driving 1 1/2 hrs to the only honda dealership in Oklahoma that has one in stock!

Here's the schematic on HDL website:
http://www.hdlparts.com/fiche_section_detail.asp?section=2136864&category=Motorcycles&make=HONDA&year=1997&fveh=124886

Also, I'll post a screenshot of the schematic, in case that link should change in the future.

You'll also have to work pretty hard, to get the large bearing off of the old final driven gear. It's part number #19 and #27 on the schematic.

I'm now referring to part #14 as "Elusive part #14" the elusive oring holder.



On the bright side....here's what $400 worth of "new splines" look like!!









-Cheers

-lube your damn splines please.

[Valkpilot]

-lube your damn splines please.

And on reassembly, loosen the four nuts holding the pumpkin to the drive shaft, torque the axle, then tighten those four nuts.

The assembly sequence is as, or more, important as the lube.

[BIG--T]

-lube your damn splines please.

And on reassembly, loosen the four nuts holding the pumpkin to the drive shaft, torque the axle, then tighten those four nuts.

The assembly sequence is as, or more, important as the lube.

Since I'm putting a new tire on, I'm curious to know why the axle has to be tightend first?

[salty1]

After the axle is torqued, the "innards" of the pumpkin are alinged allowing for minimal wear. Obviously, the four nuts that bring shaft housing and the final drive together need to be tighten (torqued) to maintain this new position. 

[BIG--T]

After the axle is torqued, the "innards" of the pumpkin are alinged allowing for minimal wear. Obviously, the four nuts that bring shaft housing and the final drive together need to be tighten (torqued) to maintain this new position. 

That makes sense. Do you know what to torque the axle nut and the 4 on the shaft?

Thanks!