Dan Marc Relay

[kyllini]

Anyone install a relay for the Dan Marc? What type of relay and where's it hooked up to?

I'm also installing a quick disconnect to a new Golan Petcock and was curious if there's a way to install the Dan Marc to this assembly instead of below the tank.

May eventually change the location of the Dam marc if/when I desmog but that an out of season project (not up to it right now).

The bike's only got 6K miles on it so i think the vacuum lines will last til fall. the petcock however was leaking like a pig!

Anyway, any info (pictures) would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

[mmurffy03]

hi there fellow shore area rider im in seaside heights I installed the quick disconnect didn't like the way it flowed others might agree I just went with a pingle petcock

[kyllini]

Like the idea of being able to do a quick disconnect of the fuel line whenever I take the tank off. Since I'm not doing the desmog at this time I figure I'm taking the tank off at least 1 - 2 times in the near future.
Understand the issue with the vertical loop and effect on gravity fed fuel.
Was wondering if it can be installed more on a horizontal plane (if there's enough room) rather than a vertical one.
Would definitely like to install the dan marc in an 'other than under the air box" location, as I don't want to mess with the airbox at this time.

Wishful thinking on my part or can it work in other locations (in front of battery compartment)?
Also would like some input on type of relay for the dan marc.

Other than that -all's well (LOL).

BTW, I'm up in Holmdel (exit 116 off GSP).

[salty1]

Sounds like your going to be adding a lot of new mods without desmoging the bike, might be a pretty tight fit. The relay I used for my Dan Marc is the typical four prong variety triggered off the accessory wire. Sure do like it. I placed my Dan Marc in the valley where the PAIR vales were once located. If you did the desmog, the other mods you want to make might be easier to accomplish. FWIW

[mmurffy03]

Holmdel didn't I send you pics the other day of my 03 standard

[kyllini]

yes you did - sweet bike

[kyllini]

salty1 - I just got the lift adapter on the bike (the bolts for the kick stand we're a real bear to get off) - it's on the lift and waiting for the mods.
Would prefer to do the desmog in the fall/winter but I see what you mean about the extra space being available if I get rid of all the vacuum tubes, etc.
Definitely going to install the Golan petcock next weekend and probably the Dan marc (although maybe in a temp location).
Also, bought a quick release sissy bar / luggage rack mod from Paladin and want to install this too next weekend.
Guess it's gonna be a busy weekend.

[R J]

I hope you have better luck with your quick disconnect than i did.

I got it installed, and top end went from over the dollar mark to about $.90.

I ran it that way for a few days and took it off.

Last fall I put a Pingle and a Don Marc relay on, with the quick disconnect.

Top end went from over the dollar mark to about $.90.

Took the quick disconnect back off and threw it across the garage floor, it went under the bench and no way in hell was I going to go look for it.

Now, my next project is to put a hidden switch on the Dan Marc, so if someone tries to steal it, they will get maybe 2 or 3 miles down the road and she will starve out.    It will be easy to recover that way.

I got the idea from MarkT's write up.   Thanks MarkT.
  

[kyllini]

RJ - I'm starting to rethink the quick disconnect thing. Sounds like many have installed and then removed it later on because of issues.
Where did you install the Dan Marc? Did you use a relay or straight into another circuit?
The idea of using a hidden switch for theft protection is a good one, so I plan on installing one at the same time.
Not sure where I'm putting it but I'll find a handy spot for it.

[BonS]

I installed a quick disconnect and was quickly disappointed. First, I quickly tore an o-ring. You're given a spare - wonder why? Then the spring loaded check ball quickly departed on another disconnect. Red Eye was great at getting me a replacement but by that time I was leery of the whole thing. The last thing I need is to have this happen away from home. And just like RJ I gave it a toss. I have a Dan Marc valve and a Pingel with no issues at all. Just be very careful and don't leave the fuel lines too long and have residual tension on the fuel tubing. It can kink when hot and pinch off the fuel flow very easily. Ask me how I know. The temptation is to leave the line to the gas tank as long as possible to make it easier to install but don't do it.

[kyllini]

BonS - looks more & more likely that I will not be installing the fuel quick disconnect.
Sounds like it may be more trouble than it's worth, and considering I'm doing all this work to minimize the likelihood of some kind of failure, it's starting to not make sense installing it.
Think I'll stick with the manual petcock and Dan Marc.

Anyone want to buy a quick release for the fuel line? "Real real cheap" - LOL

[BonS]

By the way, there are two models of electric valve that others use. The most well known is the "AFC Model 111 but there is a second model "AFC Model 152" that has a built in 40 micron fuel filter. It's about the same price but it's also a bit longer than the model 111. This thread has some good pictures in it. http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,18768.0.html. I just found some on ebay, new, for $29 with free shipping. (No affiliation) http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-AFC-Model-152-Solenoid-Shut-Off-Valve-fuel-filter-/350727763457

[MP]

I put a Dan marc on my IS with the sidecar and a Pingle.  I use a relay.  I first had a quick disconnect, but I had to remove it.  Had trouble with fuel flow, using as much fuel as I do with the sidecar.  17-19 mpg!

Works good with the quick disconnect off.  I just set the Pingle on reserve, and run that way, leaving it there, and allowing the DanMarc to shut off fuel when I shut down.

MP

[kyllini]

Yes, I researched it (on this board) and decided to purchase the 152 model.
I think I may also use a relay - tapping the acc. circuit for the 1 AMP power for the solenoid, and maybe the ignition relay wire to signal the solenoid relay.
I think someone else had done the same, and it sounds like a good place to get the signal from (especially since the ignition is shut off automatically in the event the bike tips over), also like the fact that I'm not piggybacking off another circuit (just in case something shorts out).
Anyone have a relay type or #?

[BonS]

O'Rilley's has this http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/DOR4/84601/N0381.oap?ck=Search_N0381_-1_-1&pt=N0381&ppt=C0335. It's a Bosch style automotive relay. Remember though, that these are not waterproof so mount them with the pins facing downward. I like to use some "liquid electrical tape" in a can to paint around the bottom of the relay to keep water out.

And this is an easy guide to wiring with them.
http://www.eurekaboy.com/f250/relay101.htm

[kyllini]

Thanks BonS - yes that one will probably do (too bad it's not waterproof).

Just got to find one close by or order online / express delivery.

Would like to get this done this weekend (it's been a long winter and i have a bad case of cabin fever).

Any concerns with the vibrations knocking this relay out? Most relays aren't meant to take the "motorcycle" abuse.

[BonS]

No, everyone uses them and they're fine. I have one on my Dan Marc solenoid and never any problem.

[kyllini]

Great - I'll see where I can get one in time (by this weekend). Looking forward to getting all this behind me and get some riding done.
It's been a real cold winter and the temp's above freezing so I'm ready to roll.

[Brian]

Since this went into a two part thread talking about the quick disconnect. When I replace my OEM with the Pingle, the outlet of the valve used 5/16" tubing just fine. I used this to supply an in-line filter. I used the hose clamps that comes with the plastic thumb tab. This allows for a fairly easy hose removal from the petcock without the need for tools in there. The hose slides easily off the outlet tub when the rear of the tank is raised. Caution here. A rag is need to catch the residual fuel still in the filter that does not drain thru the carb drains. I think it keeps it simple.

[kyllini]

Brian - I also bought an inline filter that I intend to install right after the Golan petcock. Hopefully the installation will allow a relatively uneventful installation & removal without using the quick disconnect.

[BonS]

Ah, hem. Careful here, many have had to remove their filter because gravity flow is a weak force. If you choose carefully I've heard it will work. The usual failure mode is when the tank is low and you start getting fuel starvation like you're running out of gas. You put it on reserve and all is fine but you may run out completely before the tank is actually empty.

[kyllini]

BonS - So if I change out the screen / filter within the tank, you think this is enough filtration?

[BonS]

For most the filter screen in the tank is fine. Some are using a very free flowing filter and say it works. A few are using the Model 152 electric solenoid with filter. Your call.

I've heard good reports on the Golan high flow fuel filter. This is a link on Amazon. I don't know the exact model they were taking about:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0022ZH3ME/ref=asc_df_B0022ZH3ME2459332?smid=A3TGC5XRRCX4P2&tag=shopzilla_mp_1571-20&linkCode=asn&creative=395105&creativeASIN=B0022ZH3ME

This is from Pingel: http://www.jpcycles.com/product/720-621?utm_source=shopzilla&utm_medium=cse&utm_term=720-621&zmam=95452747&zmas=1&zmac=5&zmap=720-621.

I think the important thing to look for is that they are made for gravity flow fuel systems and not pressurized systems.

[kyllini]

The larger one from Golan is the one I bought.
I wanted to install it directly after the Golan petcock and before the Dan Marc.
Now thinking I may as well do the desmog too and gain the proper access to get this done.
Without the extra room, doubtful I'll be able to fit everything in there.

[kyllini]

Desmog's completed & installed Golan petcock (had to remove existing in tank filter (wouldn't fit with it in there) and the one provided by Golan was too short for the petcock selected (longer stem).

This weekend doing the Dan Marc with relay and hidden cut-off switch & OEM air filter.

After that - it should be gas up and Go! (hopefully!)

Forgot i also installed a Paladin quick release sissy bar / luggage rack kit (wife should be happy now - maybe?)

[WamegoRob]

This weekend doing the Dan Marc with relay and hidden cut-off switch & OEM air filter.

After that - it should be gas up and Go! (hopefully!)

You get everything wired up and life is good, K? 

[Gryphon Rider]

If all you're doing is wiring in a cutoff switch, there is no need for a relay.  The Dan Marc specs show 0.75A current, which can easily be handled by the 5A accessory circuit, which is live with the key on, or use any brown running light wire as an ignition-switched power source.  The only reason to use a relay is to set it up as a latching relay making use of a momentary pushbutton and a couple of diodes, which means your Dan Marc stays off when you shut off the bike, until you switch the ignition on AND push the (hidden) button.

BonS's diagram for that:

[kyllini]

Gryphon Rider - you're right about the momentary push-button being a better way to do this.

Next time I take the bike apart -  I may just make the change (per your diagram).

Still contemplating on getting the extra capacity fuel tank though, which would eliminate the need for most of these modifications, as the extra tank has a fuel pump and I would probably eliminate all except the inline fuel filter.

Damn this is getting expensive (in a good way!).

[PhredValk]

I have a small 8 position fuse panel under the seat behind the battery. I gets power from the battery thru a relay triggered by the aux wire, only on with the key. It's nice cause I power my Ipod, power point to charge my phone or laptop, and GPS from there; and there's lots of room for extra circuits like the Dan-Mark I have in the basement. Room left for heated clothing or voltmeter or whatever.
Fred.

[kyllini]

PhredValk - good idea about the extra fuse block. I'm starting to get too many wires under the battery terminals and would like to consolidate most accessories under one additional multifuse block.

[MarkT]

I originally invented this latching relay control over the Dan-Marc using a flip-flop latch.  But it turned out it's much cheaper to simply wire a regular relay as a latch per BonS' mod to my design. And that improves the functionality too - you don't have to hit a hidden switch to turn it off (thereby revealing it's location). Too bad I had already bought the flip-flop for $33.  This works better anyway - if you use the output from the kill switch to power the relay - which is also at the coil inputs and pin 4 of the ICM and the 9-pin Bl mini connector in the headlight (the black/white wire in all these places) - hitting the kill sw or turning the key off (or tipping the bike over) all will shut down the power to the Dan-Marc. Then you have to hit the hidden pushbutton to trip the latch relay or the bike will starve for fuel in about a mile.  Yeah, I've tested it repeatedly when I forget to hit the button.  It's automatic for me now with using the starter button.  BTW I don't think the D1 diode in the diagram is really needed in this case, as the power use of the Dan-Marc is low, significantly less than the capacity of the pushbutton I used - and the time it would supply the power before the relay is fully on is really short - don't know the time but I'm sure it's a milisecond or thereabouts.  But it doesn't hurt and likely will eliminate most arcing on the pushbutton contacts, increasing it's lifespan, so might as well install it if you have one handy. Here's the link to my write-up http://www.horseapple.com/Valkyrie/Tech_Tips/Fuel_Shutoff/fuel_shutoff.html  and my original thread on the subject here: http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,41361.0.html

Don't forget to place an LED somewhere that indicates the fuel power is on.  I used a "step LED" fixture in a unique color and positioned it to reflect off the engine chrome - you will never see the LED if it's off.

[kyllini]

Thanks MarkT - great idea and will implement it (if I keep the current set up). Thinking of going with the extra fuel tank (which comes with fuel pump) so current fuel line modifications will probably be eliminated.
Still dealing with annoying engine ticking and not sure if it's do to fuel starvation from addition of inline fuel filter.
Anyone install an inline filter right between a Golan petcock and the DanMarc?

[R J]

Thanks MarkT - Anyone install an inline filter right between a Golan petcock and the DanMarc?

I put an inline filter in MGM the 3rd month I had him.     took off on a trip West and fought that ole boy from starvation.   Put on a supposedly better flowing filter,   worked good to about Vegas and then it started boiling the gas, never did figure out why, but the filter last I knew was just before ya come across the Hoover Dam.     Took it off, and threw it as far as I could.    Then I went and found it, cut one of the ends off of it, and threw the bastard again.   Nevada State Patrol came by about then and asked it I was cluttering up the nice state of Nevada.    Told him not intentionally, but I'll go get it again.  He said again, I said yeah, see  the bike down there, that is where I threw it from the 1st time and I threw it from here the 2nd time.   He asked why, told him, he said jump in the car and I'll take ya down to your bike.    I'll stick around in case ya decide to throw something else, we will just throw it in the trunk of the Cruiser.

He watched and helped me add the little tip to the gas line and we stopped at the Frontier Saloon, think that was the name of it, and had a coffee.   We departed, he followed me into town, I signaled to make my turn, he run up beside me and gave a yelp on his siren.    Waved, he went on & I went on to my buddy's place.    Damn it can get hot in Nevada in the summer.    That was in the summer of 98, and that little piece is still in the gas line today.   Truthfully, I'd forgotten about it.     Might have the son run me a new gas line in a few days.  LOL.   

[kyllini]

RJ - forgive my ignorance, but are you saying you reinstalled the inline filter and it's worked ever since?

[R J]

RJ - forgive my ignorance, but are you saying you reinstalled the inline filter and it's worked ever since?

No, what I installed was one of the tits of one side of the filter.  stuck an end in each end of a hose and clamped it down.    One nd was the actually hose end, the other end was the broken off the filter part.  Threw the rest of the filter away in Nevada, close to Last Wages.

[kyllini]

RJ - Got it! I'll probably pull the filter cartridge out and leave the whole assembly as-is (inline). Shouldn't harm anything, and openings (in & out)  are large enough (without filter cartridge) to not restrict any flow.
My concern was protecting the DanMarc from particles - and having to be taking it apart too often to clean it out.
Had i known the DanMarc with longer stem would not fit with the screen provided (by them) I would have gotten the regular stem size. Definitely would feel better having the screen / sock in the tank.

[salty1]

..... Definitely would feel better having the screen / sock in the tank.

That's exactly why I just bought a new OEM petcock. Even a Dan Marc with a filter can make things pretty tight.

[kyllini]

Salty1 - I had the OEM petcock manfunction and the possibility of the vacuum side failing and hydrolocking convinced me to changed things up. Especially after i had a stuck float and leaked a lot of fuel all over the motor.
I do think i could have gone with a Pingel petcock that would have fit with the original in tank screen. But I liked the Golan detents so went with that one.
Once you do the Desmog - you do have more than enough room in there - just need to watch the overall pitch (all lines leading down).
Still think in the end i will probably go with the extra fuel tank which also comes with fuel pump. I may install it with a manual bypass though (just in case).
Man - I'm a glutton for punishment!