Valkyrie Interstate Audio 101

[Troystg]

The goal of this will be a running thread to routinely add new information as I get it.  There was a guy who posted on Facebook an installation of an Alpine amp in the fairing that I would like to get the pictures and include in this thread.  It was a good example of a "correct" installation.

This is a post for what I did to my bike, what I have seen others do, and to help anyone else who is going to do the same.
Great news, technology has advanced to give us GOOD sounding class D amps in VERY small packages.  The last year or two 2012-2014 a whole new group of amplifiers have been offered making bike audio easier and better than ever.
 
Your decision will be based on the "other" personalizations you will do to your bike.  For ME the audio was on the top of the priority list so that meant I wanted a good quality system that was protected.  That meant the amp would be under the seat instead of under the trunk or in a saddle bag.  Some others decided that relays, air horn compressors and other gadgets had a higher priority and they put those under the seat.  To each their own and only you can decide which way you car to proceed.

The factory radio on the Interstate plays to two front 3 Ohm speakers and if you have the rear speaker option it also plays to two 3 Ohm rear speakers.

If you change speakers they will most likely sound better but play lower since the new ones will most likely be 4 Ohms and less sensitive.  That is why we usually add an amplifier.  However if you remove the factory speakers and run the factory speaker wires into the amp inputs and the amp outputs to the new aftermarket speakers the radio doesn't "see a load" so the voltage needed to drive the amp inputs isn't developed until the radio volume is turned up to the higher side.  That is why an amp with variable inputs is nice, so you can match the level of the amp inputs to the level of the factory radio outputs.

Next is an amp with built in cross over.  Since we only have 4-5 inch speakers in the front  and rear they don't really play any useful low bass so having a "high pass" crosser for the four channels will prevent the speaker from blowing trying to produce low frequency sounds that we really won't hear on the bike anyway.  I would suggest to roll off the speakers around 80-100 Hz using a 12-24 db crossover.  Anything shallower I would bump it up to 200-250 Hz.

I put in 6.5" speakers in my saddlebags so I can run the rears full range.



Below are the five amp choices that I came up with.  There are more but these will preserve the radio fader functionality that was important to me.

The Kenwood would be perfect for my needs if it had the built in crossover to remove the low bass out of the front speakers and the variable input gain controls.  But since it is lacking those looking back the Soundstream or Rockford Fosgate would be better choices.



If I were to do it again I would do the following:

Polk db501's in the front.
Polk db651's in the rear saddlebags.  
Soundstream or Rockford Fosgate amp under the seat or in the saddlebag.

BIG change would be to have GOOD headsets in the helmet and the intercom fully functional.  That is what has taken me the longest and is the least documented.

But I should finish that up in the next two weeks.


If your Interstate did not have the factory rear speaker option you can get the rear speaker harness here:

http://www.electricalconnection.com/wire-harnesses/hrns_speaker.htm




1. Pyle Marine grade. Cheapest and disposable.  Mount this under the trunk if you don't have the CB or in the saddle bags.  You get what you pay for.  I can’t see this being great but in reality on a motorcycle doing 60-80(100) MPH does it have to be?
http://www.parts-express.com/pyle-plmra400-marine-waterproof-4-channel-amplifier--267-7040


2. Clarion 4 channel micro.  If you care to keep all the electronics by Clarion.  The radio and CB are by them.  I don't like the permanently attached wires.
http://www.crutchfield.com/p_020XC1410/Clarion-XC1410.html?tp=35782

3. Kenwood 4 channel micro.  The one I got.  works well but wish I would have gotten the Soundstream or Rockford.
http://www.crutchfield.com/p_113KAM1804/Kenwood-KAC-M1804.html?tp=35782

4. Alpine 4 channel micro.  Good solid amp, others have used.  They mounted it in the front fairing.
http://www.crutchfield.com/p_500KTP445U/Alpine-KTP-445U-Power-Pack.html?tp=35782

5. Sounstream 4 channel micro.  Most powerful, great features, compact.
http://www.crutchfield.com/p_530ST410KD/Soundstream-Stealth-ST4-1000D.html?tp=35782

6. Rockford Fosgate 4 channel micro.  Most expensive, reliable, great features.  
http://www.crutchfield.com/p_575PBR3004/Rockford-Fosgate-PBR300X4.html?tp=35782

Since it is documented several times already I will not cover the speaker portion but instead just include the link to the Polk speaker install.

Fronts:
http://s161.photobucket.com/user/wixthedog/library/Front%20Speaker%20Upgrade?sort=4&page=1

Rears:
http://s161.photobucket.com/user/wixthedog/library/Rear%20Speaker%20Upgrade?sort=4&page=1

[Troystg]

Pictures to follow soon.

[Firefighter]

I have always been interested in better sound but do not understand these things. I have done research in the past, but usually have more questions than when I started. I have a 2000 IS and use a mp3 through the bike stereo and speakers. Using the bike radio is useless, the mp3 sounds better and of coarse is my music. Would like to upgrade, hope you print more with lots of photos as I have to be led by hand when it comes to electronics. No bass, I would like bass. I tried helmet speakers once but could not get them to sound good enough. Always wanted to install head phones in my helmet that would cover my ears but have never found a practical way. Keep going, I'm listening.  Firefighter

[PhredValk]

I've done the Polk speakers front and rear, and have the rear harness. There is a secret to the harness that I didn't know, so mine won't reach the connector in the right side cover untill I take the trunk apart again.
Though not yet installed, I have the Pyle PLMRMP4A 4-way marine amp. It has an electronic crossover circuit that should help, and multiple input options that should help with the existing radio install.
http://www.pyleaudio.com/sku/PLMRMP4A/4-Channel-Waterproof-MP3--Ipod-Marine-Power-Amplifier
Fred.

[Troystg]

Phred-

The unit looks fine however the manual only shows the 2 channel version.  I would be interested in the crossover capabilities.  "IF" that unit is capable of 150 x 4 then that will easily blow the Polk db501's.  So setting the amp for hi-pass (blocking the low bass) will enable the speakers to play louder before blowing.


All,

There is no reason to have below 75 Hz going to bike speakers.  Unless you are listening while parked you would never hear it through 5 inch speakers.  But that is where the majority of the power is used.

Sounds great parked and standing still, will blow speakers at speed.

[Flrider]

Thanks for sharing the info 

Looks like I might be in for an upgrade in the near furure 

[Eric58701]

ok not to hyjake this information, but I just replaced my factory rears with Polk audios, sounds great and was very easy to do. now I need to figure out how to wire it so I can use my ipod for music when the radio music sucks.

[The emperor has no clothes]

ok not to hyjake this information, but I just replaced my factory rears with Polk audios, sounds great and was very easy to do. now I need to figure out how to wire it so I can use my ipod for music when the radio music sucks.

I have an accessory wire that plugs into the iPhone 

[Eric58701]

ok so share how its hooked up

[Troystg]

ok not to hyjake this information, but I just replaced my factory rears with Polk audios, sounds great and was very easy to do. now I need to figure out how to wire it so I can use my ipod for music when the radio music sucks.

There is a 1/8" (3.5mm) jack that will accept a 1/8" (3.5mm) stereo plug on the factory radio.  I can take a picture of it this weekend.

Once you have your player (MP3, iPod, whatever) patched into the factory radio you can switch to it via the deathstar looking pod on the left handlebar...  Top button on the left end.  Press it and the dash display will read "AUX".  That is turning on the auxiliary input.

[Troystg]

Starting from the beginning...  Sources.

The Interstate has a built in FM radio, Intercom (with very little documentation) and the optional CB unit.

I will address the FM radio and intercom only as I remove the CB on my Valks due to lack of use.


The radio works very well and with the 5 mile trailing wire antenna(surely someone here knows what I am referring to), uh I mean 48 inch whip it tunes in stations from quite a distance.  The owners manual has all the instructions on how to set up the radio and such but I just tune in my favorite station and leave it alone.  If the songs suck or the distance gets to far where static starts to creep in I switch to the AUX input and turn on the MP3 player.

When using an auxiliary device...

The source device (MP3, iPod, satellite) if it has a variable output, which is usually meant to drive headphones, will not develop the voltage into the high impedance load of the input of the radio.  You will have to turn the volume up on the portable device considerably higher than when headphones are used.  In this case it is best to turn up the volume on the portable device to "around" three quarters (3/4) of maximum. 

It should NOT be at full volume.  I say again the portable device should NOT be set at full volume.  Doing so it setting the portable device to "blaire" as loud as it can.  So if the material it is playing has any distortions they will be multiplied by the distortions of the output circuitry of the player.  That will be further multiplied by the factory radio system.  Then if there is an aftermarket amp installed it will multiply the original distortion even further.  So in the end the tiniest amount of distortion from the source material is multiplied 100 times in the signal chain.  The best action is to keep the source material clean and amplify through the signal chain.

Sources:

I have used an old generic MP3 player, an iPhone and a "fancy" Sony music player.  All of which had variable volume controls.

The generic MP3 worked great and had real buttons but in the sunlight I couldn't see the screen.  Sounded ok but nothing great.

The iPhone had touch screen that surprisingly worked with my gloves.  But it kept going back to the screen lock and for some reason above 60 MPH it would "skip"..  Now there are no moving parts in it so I can only conclude that the vibration of above 60 MPH was throwing off the accelorometers inside and the phone was "processing" the accelorometer info and too busy to process the music signal.

The "fancy" Sony player.  It is my wife's from years ago..  Once again it has real buttons, and the screen is bright enough for the sunlight.  Most importantly it has a setting to turn off the variable volume and set the output to a "fixed" volume optimized for a high impedance load.  So then all of the volume functions are done in the bikes radio system and not both the player and radio.. 

Satellite.  If you have one I would check to see if the output is or can be set to "fixed" and then make it a static source.


Next I will address the AMB, fader and tone control functions in the factory radio...

[Eric58701]

YOUR kidding its that easy ??? I got a 99 interstate I will be looking for the little plug  ! ! !

[jwinker]

Once you have your player (MP3, iPod, whatever) patched into the factory radio you can switch to it via the deathstar looking pod on the left handlebar...

 

Prior to this, the best description I had for it was "The Casio Keyboard Toggle Switches that control the radio."

 

[Eric58701]

you are so correct, it was that easy! removed the seat and it about jumped up at me ! tested tried and now another small project to neatly mount an ipod

[The emperor has no clothes]

you are so correct, it was that easy! removed the seat and it about jumped up at me ! tested tried and now another small project to neatly mount an ipod

If you have a tank bib already, I would just use that. My acc. wire is zip tied to the bib and goes into the pocket. Very discreet and works good.

[houstone]

Does anyone have a drawing or description of the rear speaker wire harness routing?  Do I need to drill a hole in the trunk lid?
TIA,
Jeff

[Eric58701]

I do have a nice tank bib, but I got that full already with the garage door opener, and wallet and sometimes my phone ! I researched ebay there are some nice handle bar mounts for ipods witch seems nice way to go so I can run through the music choices .

[The emperor has no clothes]

I do have a nice tank bib, but I got that full already with the garage door opener, and wallet and sometimes my phone ! I researched ebay there are some nice handle bar mounts for ipods witch seems nice way to go so I can run through the music choices .

yeah they can get filled up pretty quick

[Troystg]

The previous owner had a cup holder on the left handlebar that I took the plastic off of and left the SS plate.  I then covered the plate with the rough side of Velcro.  Now I can change out gadgets as needed.  I bought a cheap $5 case for my work phone and put some smooth side velcro on it, I did the same with a cheap MP3 and my wifes Sony player..  The wire is run along the handlebar with the rest of the cables and is completely secure and out of the way.

Again I hope to get pictures of all of this tomorrow.  And also follow up with the AMB discussion.. 

[jimmytee]

Starting from the beginning...  Sources.



The source device (MP3, iPod, satellite) if it has a variable output, which is usually meant to drive headphones, will not develop the voltage into the high impedance load of the input of the radio.  You will have to turn the volume up on the portable device considerably higher than when headphones are used.  In this case it is best to turn up the volume on the portable device to "around" three quarters (3/4) of maximum. 

It should NOT be at full volume.  I say again the portable device should NOT be set at full volume.  Doing so it setting the portable device to "blaire" as loud as it can.  So if the material it is playing has any distortions they will be multiplied by the distortions of the output circuitry of the player.  That will be further multiplied by the factory radio system.  Then if there is an aftermarket amp installed it will multiply the original distortion even further.  So in the end the tiniest amount of distortion from the source material is multiplied 100 times in the signal chain.  The best action is to keep the source material clean and amplify through the signal chain.

BTW, the reason for not wanting to turn up the MP3 or whatever source all the way,has more to do with actually over driving the input of that the 1/8" jack is attached to, not from actual source distortion. This can be dependent upon device using for the source. Remember, that these devices were meant to power headphones or ear buds not necessarily inputs of an amp or in this case the factory audio/radio. I suppose in some cases ,it's surely possible that the sourced MP3 player distorts at higher volume settings, but in my experience, it's usually more a matter of over driving the inputs.

This is the amp I used on my Valkyrie. http://www.amazon.com/Kenwood-XR400-4-eXcleon-Reference-Amplifier/dp/B00C1D0DHE
It flat out rocks and is pretty small.It powers 6 speakers. I run the front four in as two speakers with the left and then right pair wired in parallel for a 2 ohm load to the amp.
The rear 6.5, I just run them normally. I run them all pretty much full range.
I have a standard with a Woody's fairing. I'm running 4)Kicker 5.25" in the fairing and 2)6.5" Kickers in the saddlebags.
Who says you can't have bass at speed???

This is a line of amps that interest me.

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_71776_NVX-MVPA1.html

I'm looking to do my F6B this winter, but I believe I've got subs in the mix for that one.

[Troystg]

JimmyTee is absolutely correct, four by 5.25 in the front and two by 6.5 in the rear will give you bass but still not usable bass below 40Hz.  But most music Valk owners will listen to does not have meaningful content below 45Hz.  I like dubstep but I have no expectations to hear it on a bike.   Can it be done, sure, but I'm not putting 1000 watts and four 15's on the bike. 

JimmyTee has a great setup but t isn't on a factory Interstate and this thread is meant to help IS owners understand the factory system and be able to modify it in the least invasive manor but get the most gain ( pun intended) from it.

I applaud JimmyTee's work and system but it is considered a "custom build" and not the factory system..

As for the comment about over driving the inputs of the AUX input, that is very valid.  However at 3/4 volume on the source of a portable meant for headphones you should be safe.  If the source is meant for line level (high impedance device which headphones are not) then you may have to back it down to half volume or less.   It's all about gain structure...  Too much gain in one segment of the path is not good yet at the same time less segments are better.

[jimmytee]

JimmyTee is absolutely correct, four by 5.25 in the front and two by 6.5 in the rear will give you bass but still not usable bass below 40Hz.  But most music Valk owners will listen to does not have meaningful content below 45Hz.  I like dubstep but I have no expectations to hear it on a bike.   Can it be done, sure, but I'm not putting 1000 watts and four 15's on the bike. 

JimmyTee has a great setup but t isn't on a factory Interstate and this thread is meant to help IS owners understand the factory system and be able to modify it in the least invasive manor but get the most gain ( pun intended) from it.

I applaud JimmyTee's work and system but it is considered a "custom build" and not the factory system..

As for the comment about over driving the inputs of the AUX input, that is very valid.  However at 3/4 volume on the source of a portable meant for headphones you should be safe.  If the source is meant for line level (high impedance device which headphones are not) then you may have to back it down to half volume or less.   It's all about gain structure...  Too much gain in one segment of the path is not good yet at the same time less segments are better.

I didn't disagree with your volume suggestion, just the premise why it was needed.

 I understand this thread was intended by you to cover Interstates, but achieving good audio results require universally accepted practices and truths. I was simply offering my experiences with another choice in amplifiers. Good amplifiers make a world of difference in achieving desired results. All amps are not created equal and neither is the way their manufacturers use to measure their claimed power deliveries.

As far as custom, custom can apply to the Interstates right? As soon as you start changing speakers, you've walked into that definition.

Did I read earlier that you had installed 6.5" speakers?

Yes, most popular music, like rock,pop,country etc... doesn't have much program material below 40hz.
My system does pretty decent, but I am thinking of using dual subs facing inwards,towards each other and the wheel, inside the saddle bags of my F6B. I'm leaning towards Focal speakers up front and JL Audio in the bags. If you can't tell, audio/electronics has been a long time hobby of mine.

[jimmytee]

Do you have pics?

[Troystg]

"My system does pretty decent, but I am thinking of using dual subs facing inwards,towards each other and the wheel, inside the saddle bags of my F6B. I'm leaning towards Focal speakers up front and JL Audio in the bags. "

The 6.5's are facing inward in the saddle bags on mine..  You could go 8's there easy.  I removed the trunk that's why I had to customize for rear speakers.  Had I kept the trunk I would have put the Polks there too.

I use a Kenwood x-500 on a JLAudio 8" in the wifes car..  GREAT combo.

Bike audio can never be as good as car, which can never be as good as home, which can never be as good as studio, which can never be as good as live music....  So lets all support live music!!   cooldude:

I have the small Kenwood amp on my bike also but I would recommend to other IS owners the Soundstream or the Rockford for four reasons:

1. Physical size
2. Conformal coated PCB
3. Adjustable front and rear cross-overs
4. Variable input sensitivity

Side note, Focal makes good stuff but I am a long time B&W man...   

[jimmytee]

"My system does pretty decent, but I am thinking of using dual subs facing inwards,towards each other and the wheel, inside the saddle bags of my F6B. I'm leaning towards Focal speakers up front and JL Audio in the bags. "

The 6.5's are facing inward in the saddle bags on mine..  You could go 8's there easy.  I removed the trunk that's why I had to customize for rear speakers.  Had I kept the trunk I would have put the Polks there too.

I use a Kenwood x-500 on a JLAudio 8" in the wifes car..  GREAT combo.

Bike audio can never be as good as car, which can never be as good as home, which can never be as good as studio, which can never be as good as live music....  So lets all support live music!!   cooldude:

I have the small Kenwood amp on my bike also but I would recommend to other IS owners the Soundstream or the Rockford for four reasons:

1. Physical size
2. Conformal coated PCB
3. Adjustable front and rear cross-overs
4. Variable input sensitivity

Side note, Focal makes good stuff but I am a long time B&W man...  

You have the Kenwood Excelon amp? That's the amp I use on the Valk. It retails for $299, I paid $199 locally a year and a half ago. It has those features and while it's length and width may be a little larger, it is only about an 1" thick. I have mine between the inner and outer fairing halves of the Woody.The Kickers on the Valk  sound really good. They got a lot of Kick      in them and decent coverage over the frequency spectrum. For the F6B, I think I'm going to go for little warmer sound, though. The Focals are just some I'm looking at. They're not inexpensive speakers, but I'm only looking at two up front then the subs. A pair of 8" subs is exactly what I'm thinking in the saddlebags. I've thought about a quick removable trunk/tour pack with speakers. There are some noce examples that look really good on the F6B. The only thing about that is , I really like the no trunk look of the F6B and if I added a quick removable trunk with speakers, I might be inclined to leave the trunk on. I don't know if that idea appeals to me.

Got some pics of your install?

[Troystg]

DeathStar pod with old cup holder mounting platform.




Sony Player mounted.




1/8 th inch (3.5mm) AUX input.  Silver plated copper wire, Teflon insulation, Nutrik gold plated plugs.




Relocated FM antenna.




Rear Speaker Output.




Ground point done by the previous owner or two.




Accessory relay.




Amp installed.




Heat vents drilled.




Rear Speakers mounted.

[Troystg]

So adventures with the AMB circuit...

While installing the amp I recorded my stereophile test CD tracks to the music player and played test tones to identify the correct channels..  Well that didn't work for some reason and I tore apart the bike chasing an issue that wasn't there. 

Turns out the AMB or "ambiance" setting does some channel mixing and phase shifting to make a "simulated" surround sound.  I apparently had it on while I was running the test tones..  So I couldn't get a clear indicator of which channel was which.

Anyway, the AMB circuit is an addition to make the sound appear to come from around the bike and not the speakers in front of you.  I am still experimenting with it but usually I find myself turning it off more than missing it.

What is your opinion of it?

[Six-Cylinder Hooligan]

Another handy doo-dad for folks wanting to use an external source of audio such as MP3 player is one of these- http://www.amazon.com/ThinkGeek-LHSFBA-HC-BOOST1-Boostaroo-Portable-Amplifier/dp/B000219896

[jimmytee]

Another handy doo-dad for folks wanting to use an external source of audio such as MP3 player is one of these- http://www.amazon.com/ThinkGeek-LHSFBA-HC-BOOST1-Boostaroo-Portable-Amplifier/dp/B000219896

That is useful for sharing headphones, but I wouldn't want to use that for an input to an amp. It would likely overdrive the inputs.

[jimmytee]

This is what I have in mind, most likely, for the F6B bags.

This is on a regular Wing, not sure the year. It will involve some fiberglass work for the mounting.

[Troystg]

When I looked at the f6b it looked closed at the top..  The bags on the valk have the gap and are open..

[jimmytee]

When I looked at the f6b it looked closed at the top..  The bags on the valk have the gap and are open..

It's not, but there isn't a smooth flat surface large enough to accommodate such a speaker, therefore some fiberglass work to make a mounting base will be required. JL Audio does have a 6.5" Sub that I could probably fit without the extra work. Just some reinforcement to the baffle to eliminate unwanted flex or vibration. I'm just not sure it would deliver the outcome I desire.

Here are some more pics. Again, these are not of my bike or work I've done, just some from a friend who has done this to a GL1800. The bags, except for the exterior cosmetics, are for all intense purposes, the same as the F6B's. I had this idea to do this, and through my searching found that this guy had done it already. Actually fairly common on HD style custom bikes, but hadn't seen to many custom GL audio projects.

[Six-Cylinder Hooligan]

Another handy doo-dad for folks wanting to use an external source of audio such as MP3 player is one of these- http://www.amazon.com/ThinkGeek-LHSFBA-HC-BOOST1-Boostaroo-Portable-Amplifier/dp/B000219896

That is useful for sharing headphones, but I wouldn't want to use that for an input to an amp. It would likely overdrive the inputs.

I was implying it'd be handy for plugging an MP-3 or iPod into the Aux jack on a stock stereo.

Cheers!
-Art

[Troystg]

I figured out another way to raise the volume to the 1/8th aux jack but I haven't tried it yet...  Maybe next weekend...  I am out riding today...  :-)

[jwinker]

JimmyTee is absolutely correct, four by 5.25 in the front and two by 6.5 in the rear will give you bass but still not usable bass below 40Hz.  But most music Valk owners will listen to does not have meaningful content below 45Hz.  I like dubstep but I have no expectations to hear it on a bike.   Can it be done, sure, but I'm not putting 1000 watts and four 15's on the bike.

I might have a new idea on that path...

http://thesubpac.com/

A subpac integrated into a riding jacket. It's still in its infancy stages at this time, but this could dramatically improve motorcycle audio, especially <80Hz.

[Troystg]

I had already thought of adding a couple of these under the seat..  But then said this was a bike not my couch...

https://www.parts-express.com/cat/tactile-transducers-exciters-bass-shakers/18

[theredark]

Ok, great information in this thread.  I am installing the sound stealth amp in my fairing.   I have already installed the polk db501 speakers front and rear.  I have the factory setup for four speakers.  I have the fairing removed and plan on doing the drill/tap/L bracket mount to a flat piece of something?  that the amplifier will be mounted to.  I plan on running a dedicated power line back to my auxiliary relay switch block.  My question is how to find the wires for the inputs to the amp?  The front speakers I guess I just cut the wiring to them and route to the inputs then the outputs back to the speakers.  Where do I find the rear speaker leads?  I'm sure there in one of the bundles but pics would sure help.  thanks,   Brad

[Troystg]

Brad-

DON'T cut the front wires!!!  In the front fairing (where you said you were mounting the amp) is the bullet connectors that connect to the front speakers.  Just unplug those connectors and run the factory radio into your amp and the speaker out puts from the amp back to the speakers.


Now for the back speakers I do suggest that you get some crimp on bullet connectors and cut the cable under the seat.  Cut the cable and crimp on the female bullet connectors to the positive leads "from" the radio.  This way you can "normal up" the bike or inset the amp in the path.  Then you can run wires to the front amp for signal input and speaker output.


Troy

[theredark]

Thanks Troy,  Don't worry,  I wont cut anything unless I have to.  I just ordered the wiring harness from electrical connections that is "plug and play" at the rear wiring harness connector behind the right side cover.   It runs a set of wires back up to the amp then a second with the amplified output back to the other side of the connector.  Hopefully!   Picked up the bullet connectors today for the fronts.  Just building the shelf now.   I will try to take pics of the rest of the install.

Brad

[Troystg]

Front speaker plug in point.

White / Blue cat 5 pair goes to amp input...  Red / Black 16 ga. comes from amp output and to the front speakers.