Replace timing belts???

[rev383]

1998 Tourer with about 20K on the odo.  Ridden solo with Hoppe Quadzilla and 5 gallon auxiliary tank mounted in the passenger/ luggage rack area.  Bike is stored in enclosed garage.  Black and Jade (the most reliable color).  Owned since new, ridden local and distance in rotation with another bike.

What is the current prevailing theory on timing belt replacement?  Age and/or mileage???

Thanks in advance!

Jim
SoUtah

[Bighead]

Some do it due to age and find they look new but have  piece of mind.
Now back to your machine, listen very closely. YOU NEED TO RIDE HER! :2funny:20k in 17 yrs that is less than 1400 per year that's a two day trip, she will like you a bunch more if you take her out and twist her tail every now and then.

[Patrick]

Honda says to check them at 100K.

I've not heard of a Valk breaking a belt, but, I've seen many other engines do it. Belts look good today right up to the second they decide to come apart. This is not meant to scare anyone, just saying.

I tend to replace due to age.

That said, one has to be careful when replacing these belts. Don't get one a tooth off.

[Chrisj CMA]

1998 Tourer with about 20K on the odo.  Ridden solo with Hoppe Quadzilla and 5 gallon auxiliary tank mounted in the passenger/ luggage rack area.  Bike is stored in enclosed garage.  Black and Jade (the most reliable color).  Owned since new, ridden local and distance in rotation with another bike.

What is the current prevailing theory on timing belt replacement?  Age and/or mileage???

Thanks in advance!

Jim
SoUtah

Most change near or at 100,000 miles.  Since you have chosen to let that bike sit for so long, I would change them now because they are probably rotten from stagnation.

[sonofscrooge]

I replaced my belts over the winter. Took my time and found it was no big deal. I decided to change them due to age, not miles.

[Cracker Jack]

1998 Tourer with about 20K on the odo.  Ridden solo with Hoppe Quadzilla and 5 gallon auxiliary tank mounted in the passenger/ luggage rack area.  Bike is stored in enclosed garage.  Black and Jade (the most reliable color).  Owned since new, ridden local and distance in rotation with another bike.

What is the current prevailing theory on timing belt replacement?  Age and/or mileage???

Thanks in advance!

Jim
SoUtah

Most change near or at 100,000 miles.  Since you have chosen to let that bike sit for so long, I would change them now because they are probably rotten from stagnation.

Yep! That stagnation will rot 'em every time.

[rev383]

So it seems there is no general consensuses........  Most let them go to 100K+, while quite a few change them due to age.  I bought the belts and will probably change them when I take the cover off to inspect.  I also have a 6 degree trigger wheel to install that I go back and forth on installing!

Bighead, what a beautiful Bumble Bee!

Bike is ridden often in rotation with a couple of other bikes.  Unfortunately I only live a mile from the shop (work) and commitments prevent a whole lot of riding.  I've done a SS1000 on her and a trip to see the grandkids every other year or so.  She had some lay up periods due to military commitments and a back surgery.  I'm 56 and hope to ride her another 20 years.........  

[Willow]

If any thought of the timing belt causes you discomfort you should open the cover up to inspect them.  Once you've gone to the trouble to open it up to look at them you may as well invest the thirty dollars to replace them.  By that time you've already done a large part of the work.

There is no reported history of rotted timing belts failing on a Valkyrie.  Actually there's only one report I know of of a timing belt failing on a Valkyrie.  If you're comfortable with the belts they will likely last until you get over one hundred thousand mile on them.

[98valk]

Service manual has nothing about age, only inspect every 100k miles. but if want to change them, send those two old used 20k mile belts to me. I'll let u know how they are in another 80k miles.

[Brian]

Your bike, your time, your money = peace of mind, go for it! 

[DK]

I worry more about idler / tensioner bearings more than the belts, especially when time installed is long.

The only failure I have experienced was a ten year old Porsche 928 four cam with 36,000 miles which had been stored for four years.

The fail part was a tensioner bearing. The belt was ok. What happened was that the balls somehow came out of the races and broke off 30 degrees of a cam drive sprocket. Examination of the bearing remainants showed rust pitting. The belt was enclosed at least as well as the Valk and in addition, was also enclosed by the car body.

I don't know how or why the bearing got wet, but it did.

Bearings and belts are cheap and I'm going to replace both because of age rather than mileage.

Dan

[Brian]

I worry more about idler / tensioner bearings more than the belts, especially when time installed is long.

The only failure I have experienced was a ten year old Porsche 928 four cam with 36,000 miles which had been stored for four years.

The fail part was a tensioner bearing. The belt was ok. What happened was that the balls somehow came out of the races and broke off 30 degrees of a cam drive sprocket. Examination of the bearing remainants showed rust pitting. The belt was enclosed at least as well as the Valk and in addition, was also enclosed by the car body.

I don't know how or why the bearing got wet, but it did.

Bearings and belts are cheap and I'm going to replace both because of age rather than mileage.

Dan

Dan, you can easily rebuild those tensioners for less that the price of one new.  The rebuilt unit using the gates pulley is by far a better product than the $90 Honda tensioner. I have 8,000 miles on my rebuilt unit and no problem to date. Google it. Gates pulley part number T42015. And do a search here as many of us have done this with good results. You can get these and the belts off Amazon.com.

[DK]

See previous thread for exhausutive discussion of replacing timing belts & rebuilding tensioners:


http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,56195.0.html

Dan

[rev383]

Belts changed.  They looked a little aged, but no obvious defects such as cracking or fraying.  The left one appeared to be a little loose and the right was obviously a little tighter than the left.  The right tensioner had some belt rubber stuck to it.  I'm guessing that was a result of it being parked for a couple of years.  Both bearings were nice and tight and turned smoothly with grease and seal drag.
Set the flop on the belts to 3/16in at approximately 4.4lb with a digital fish scale.  Cleaned, torqued and put everything back together.  Bearings made a little noise with the cover off, can't hear the noise with the cover on.

Good for another 17 years.

[desertrefugee]

Although I haven't done mine yet (46k miles), it's not a bad idea - even if not totally necessary.  I am in the "change due to age" camp.   Having been through (and still owner of one) several 4 cylinder Goldwings, changing the belts is a MUST on that species.   

Even though Honda states "inspect at 100k", I don't think they intended for that to be the case regardless of age.   And these old Valks are getting older.

Plus, changing the belts on a Valkyrie is a breeze.  To do it on the Goldwings requires removal of Tupperware (if a dresser) and radiator.   On the Valkyrie, just pull the cover and get after it.

I know I'm not going to wait 'til I hit 100k.

[RonW]

Okay, hypothetically, if I were going to change my timing belts, you're suppose to apply sealant to one of the bolts, per manual. When I go to the store, there seems to be a number of different types of *sealants* on the same rack. Which kind sealant is suppose to be used?

[98valk]

Although I haven't done mine yet (46k miles), it's not a bad idea - even if not totally necessary.  I am in the "change due to age" camp.   Having been through (and still owner of one) several 4 cylinder Goldwings, changing the belts is a MUST on that species.   

Even though Honda states "inspect at 100k", I don't think they intended for that to be the case regardless of age.   And these old Valks are getting older.

Plus, changing the belts on a Valkyrie is a breeze.  To do it on the Goldwings requires removal of Tupperware (if a dresser) and radiator.   On the Valkyrie, just pull the cover and get after it.

I know I'm not going to wait 'til I hit 100k.

AGED really?? did u check the materials used? they don't deteriorate with age.
they are not made with natural rubber. they are not made with material from the '50s and '60s which did age.
Aged?, how about changing out all of the radiator hoses? how about the spark plug cables?
Honda didn't know what they were doing while designing an engine that will last 500+K miles.

[MarkT]

Okay, hypothetically, if I were going to change my timing belts, you're suppose to apply sealant to one of the bolts, per manual. When I go to the store, there seems to be a number of different types of *sealants* on the same rack. Which kind sealant is suppose to be used?

I didn't check my manuals, so take this with a grain of salt.  Any "sealant" on bolts would be Loctite 242 aka "blue thread locker".  It's been awhile since I changed my belts but I'm sure I used that.  DON'T USE RED.

[desertrefugee]

Although I haven't done mine yet (46k miles), it's not a bad idea - even if not totally necessary.  I am in the "change due to age" camp.   Having been through (and still owner of one) several 4 cylinder Goldwings, changing the belts is a MUST on that species.   

Even though Honda states "inspect at 100k", I don't think they intended for that to be the case regardless of age.   And these old Valks are getting older.

Plus, changing the belts on a Valkyrie is a breeze.  To do it on the Goldwings requires removal of Tupperware (if a dresser) and radiator.   On the Valkyrie, just pull the cover and get after it.

I know I'm not going to wait 'til I hit 100k.

AGED really?? did u check the materials used? they don't deteriorate with age.
they are not made with natural rubber. they are not made with material from the '50s and '60s which did age.
Aged?, how about changing out all of the radiator hoses? how about the spark plug cables?
Honda didn't know what they were doing while designing an engine that will last 500+K miles.

Tell you what, CA.  Since you obviously have it all figured out, leave your belts in there for a gazillion miles.  Those of us anal retentive types will change them just have something to do.

And that should be the end of it.

I see no reason for belittling complete strangers for their position on the matter.

But you really should change your radiator hoses!

[Paladin528]

The sealant on the single bolt on the cover is any gasket type sealant.  I used permatex liquid gasket sealant on that bolt at reinstallation.  No thread locker required unless you want to for piece of mind.

[RonW]

Paladin528, this in the manual .....






*Btw, why the sealant on this particular bolt? (MarkT, thanks just the same.)

[Paladin528]

yeah thats why I used the permatex.  It is an oil safe sealant and works just fine.  It is also the sealant used on the crank case so why not

[Jersey mike]

preventative maint is never a bad thing. it gives you peace of mind knowing they are done and it makes sure they won't break because their age.

[gordonv]

Sealant because that bolt goes into the water jacket or oil port. I recall it's water.

[Chrisj CMA]

I seal one bolt, but its not that one.  I have my own theory on it

[nogrey]

Some do it due to age and find they look new but have  piece of mind.
Now back to your machine, listen very closely. YOU NEED TO RIDE HER! :2funny:20k in 17 yrs that is less than 1400 per year that's a two day trip, she will like you a bunch more if you take her out and twist her tail every now and then.

That wasn't my experience at all. Nor the experience of several others. I replaced the belts on my '97 tourer with a whopping 8k miles on it. The tensioners had black goo on them and the belts had a wear pattern on the back. I personally had put 5.5K miles on the bike. It had sat for 17 years prior. There was no indication of an issue and the tensioners spin freely and were not over tight. I'm sure they were still at factory setting. If it's not obvious, I don't stand with the bunch that touts leaving the belts on until you "check" them at 100k miles. That (in my opinion) is reckless. Anyone who deals in rubber products will tell you that 72 months is about the time rubber compounds begin to wear down due to age. Don't take my word for it, check the belt manufacturers websites and ask your local tire dealer if he'll warranty a 6 year old tire that has no miles on it. 
My take is, your bike is over 15years old. It's a classic. The engine is a thing of beauty and engineered to last. The rubber on it isn't. Look at all the tech posts about "change your O-rings", "Change your vacuum hoses", "change your vacuum caps", "Don't ride on old tires" etc, etc, etc. What I am seeing here on the board is a fear of changing the timing belts because of the possibility of really screwing something up. Well, I agree with them there. I just replaced the heads on a friends goldwing because he didn't take the time to read the instructions. Yes, you can really "F" up the motor if you don't read the instructions and line up the timing marks as instructed. Of course, all you have to do is rotate the engine with a wrench to check before starting it to avoid issues. But many on the board here would rather have you just wait because "there are no reported instances of belts breaking on Valkyries". My question is, do you want to be the first one? (actually, there already are reports of broken belts and catastrophic damage, just not on this board). Just my 2 cents, but I'm saying it. I don't understand all the nay-sayers who want to coax others into not changing their aging belts for whatever reason. I just don't understand it.
BTW, anyone, and I mean anyone can do this job. Just take your time and invest in a shop manual. You need one anyway.

[RonW]

What I am seeing here on the board is a fear of changing the timing belts because of the possibility of really screwing something up. Well, I agree with them there.

Well, I would have used silicone sealant by mistake on that bolt instead of gasket sealant. Never gotten the silicone off. Do you have a link to a write-up with pics? Or some YouTube videos. Those would be better forms of encouragement.

I don't understand all the nay-sayers who want to coax others into not changing their aging belts for whatever reason. I just don't understand it.

It might have more to do with the age of the owners rather than the age of the belts. As in, they don't like crouching down so low for 2 hours and risk an autopsy.

I seal one bolt, but its not that one.  I have my own theory on it

Okay, Chrisj, I'll pick you a bushel of maui guavas & Fedex them to you ..... which bolt & why?

[nogrey]

Okay, hypothetically, if I were going to change my timing belts, you're suppose to apply sealant to one of the bolts, per manual. When I go to the store, there seems to be a number of different types of *sealants* on the same rack. Which kind sealant is suppose to be used?

I'm not going to be able to answer your question, Ron, just mirror it and ask my own. The bolt with sealant is the most difficult to remove on some of the bikes I've worked on. Almost to the point where stripping the bolt becomes a concern. After removing it, there is a white residue on it that could be the sealant honda used. Next time I'm in a parts store I'll ask them what sealant is recommended for use on steel bolts in an aluminum block application. I'm also curious as to why they only seal one bolt?

I seal one bolt, but its not that one.  I have my own theory on it

What is your theory? You've got my curiosity up.

[98valk]

Some do it due to age and find they look new but have  piece of mind.
Now back to your machine, listen very closely. YOU NEED TO RIDE HER! :2funny:20k in 17 yrs that is less than 1400 per year that's a two day trip, she will like you a bunch more if you take her out and twist her tail every now and then.

That wasn't my experience at all. Nor the experience of several others. I replaced the belts on my '97 tourer with a whopping 8k miles on it. The tensioners had black goo on them and the belts had a wear pattern on the back. I personally had put 5.5K miles on the bike. It had sat for 17 years prior. There was no indication of an issue and the tensioners spin freely and were not over tight. I'm sure they were still at factory setting. If it's not obvious, I don't stand with the bunch that touts leaving the belts on until you "check" them at 100k miles. That (in my opinion) is reckless. Anyone who deals in rubber products will tell you that 72 months is about the time rubber compounds begin to wear down due to age. Don't take my word for it, check the belt manufacturers websites and ask your local tire dealer if he'll warranty a 6 year old tire that has no miles on it. 
My take is, your bike is over 15years old. It's a classic. The engine is a thing of beauty and engineered to last. The rubber on it isn't. Look at all the tech posts about "change your O-rings", "Change your vacuum hoses", "change your vacuum caps", "Don't ride on old tires" etc, etc, etc. What I am seeing here on the board is a fear of changing the timing belts because of the possibility of really screwing something up. Well, I agree with them there. I just replaced the heads on a friends goldwing because he didn't take the time to read the instructions. Yes, you can really "F" up the motor if you don't read the instructions and line up the timing marks as instructed. Of course, all you have to do is rotate the engine with a wrench to check before starting it to avoid issues. But many on the board here would rather have you just wait because "there are no reported instances of belts breaking on Valkyries". My question is, do you want to be the first one? (actually, there already are reports of broken belts and catastrophic damage, just not on this board). Just my 2 cents, but I'm saying it. I don't understand all the nay-sayers who want to coax others into not changing their aging belts for whatever reason. I just don't understand it.
BTW, anyone, and I mean anyone can do this job. Just take your time and invest in a shop manual. You need one anyway.

u really don't know what your talking about. your pushing emotional engineering.
But I know facts never trump emotions, but I will try again for the last time with you.
"rubber" is not used. they are engineered synthetic materials.
please do yourself a favor and look up the materials the timing belts are made of. it is not rubber.
Like I wrote before in the other thread, the high end Gates water pump/fan belt drive belt (not made of rubber) used on diesel trucks is rated for 100k miles and their actual fleet testing has vehicles with 250k+ miles on the belt and still going. those belts are exposed to much more harsh conditions than a GL's enclosed timing belts.
they are of similar materials and construction.
And u still haven't answered my question of why Gates has conflicting reasons of when to change the belts, from the manual u originally posted about. They want to sell belts sooner, GET IT?!

and I bet u change your synthetic oil every 2-3k miles, cause its cheap insurance. Hogwash.
Have a nice day and God Bless you, for I am done responding to you.

[rev383]

Why did I decide it was the right time?  Could the belts have lasted longer?  I'm sure these belts would have continued on down the road for quite a piece.  Upon inspection, the belts did look a little dried out.  There was quite a bit of brown dust in the cavity and the small amount of belt residue on the one idler.  I was in there, the belts are inexpensive (cheaper than my last Mobil 1 oil change).  So why not.  As a military technician over 26 years, we lived and died by preventive maintenance.  I see no reason to change.  The down side of a failure is pretty great.  I consulted with a long time friend and seasoned professional who has changed 100's of timing belts on autos, after I changed them.  His advice, pay me now or pay me later.  He has seen numerous failures over the years on autos including Honda's. 

So for my piece of mind, it was $30 well spent and I got to have some quality time with the bike.

Ride as often as you can, and ride safe!

Most of all:  "Ride your own ride".

Jim
SoUtah

[Chrisj CMA]

When I changed my belts, and put it back together, I had an oil leak.  Was coming from a bolt securing the tensioner on the brake side.  The bolt closest to center.  I have always felt it was a communication error that led to the notation about sealant on the cover bolt which I have not never needed sealant on, and no other Valkyrie I have worked on has needed.

[desertrefugee]

As much as I dislike stoking the egos of those who really don't deserve it, there appears to be some merit in a more liberal approach and holding off on changing timing belts.

I have spent considerable time going through this highly detailed Gates white paper.  (I am an engineer, so kinda live for this sort of thing).

Bottom line?   CA (love him or hate him) is ... <gulp> right!  The material composition is such that deterioration, if any, is quite slow.  It will wear out before it rots.

While I still won't wait until 100,000 miles I may not change mine at 50 (in another 4k).

If you'd like to scan through that detailed white paper:

http://file.lasersaur.com/docs-thirdparty/The_World_of_Timing_Belts.pdf

[98valk]

As much as I dislike stoking the egos of those who really don't deserve it, there appears to be some merit in a more liberal approach and holding off on changing timing belts.

I have spent considerable time going through this highly detailed Gates white paper.  (I am an engineer, so kinda live for this sort of thing).

Bottom line?   CA (love him or hate him) is ... <gulp> right!  The material composition is such that deterioration, if any, is quite slow.  It will wear out before it rots.

While I still won't wait until 100,000 miles I may not change mine at 50 (in another 4k).

If you'd like to scan through that detailed white paper:

http://file.lasersaur.com/docs-thirdparty/The_World_of_Timing_Belts.pdf

thanks for the white paper link.
Fig 2 shows the same area the '89 GW manual shows to check for wear, the trailing edge of the belt direction. 

[MarkT]

It could be worse.  You could be riding a Harley with cam chains.

On a tangent (hijack) of this thread:  Recent HD motors have a design & implementation issue of their cam drives.  Because the idiots used a CHAIN to drive the cams, and then a nylon SLIDER on the side of the chain to tension it.  And the metal holding this all together is POT METAL.  Wow.  I guess the thinking is, If the customers keep buying it, and will put up with the designed-in failures, and such failures guarantee revenue for the service dept - WHY FIX THE PROBLEM?

Why are they using cam chains when belts are much more durable and nearly maintenance-free?  Belts aren't a new idea.  But then they also use pushrods, single-pin cranks, air cooling etc etc.

Google "Harley Cam Chain problem" and be buried with links.  Or read this:

From http://www.jamesrussellpublishing.biz/beforeyoubuyharley.html


The biggest problem is the poor design of the cam chain system.  It still uses "shoes" riding on the cam chains that can still wear out, even with the new hydraulic tensioning system, for that is not a true and lasting fix.  What is the problem?  The soft plastic or nylon shoes rub against the two chains and the shoes wear out.  When they do there will be metal to metal contact and this grinding creates metal shavings that creates a catastrophic engine failure.  So bad the entire engine is destroyed; cams, pistons, crankshaft, engine cases broken.  It is a wickedly serious engine design defect.  Be aware... it can fail at 15,000 miles.  Even the new hydraulic system can fail at 40,000 miles or less and those nasty little shoes need replacing at 40,000 miles due to its inherent weaknesses.

"You may hear a sound like the starter motor is running, but if your pipes are loud you may not get even this warning.  The oil pump passages can clog up without making any noise whatsoever except when the engine starts tearing itself to pieces."

  What is the fix?  You can purchase a gear set that eliminates the cam chains and shoes.  Harley-Davidson should, in my opinion, make this a standard fix and not an after the fact option.  If you can't afford to install the gear system, then you need to disassemble and inspect the inner and outer shoes every 15,000 miles or risk total engine failure.  The shoe material can also clog the oil pump totally destroying the engine.  There are plenty of motorcycle magazines explaining how to fix this nagging problem.  

 Note: But keep in mind that the crankshaft pinion shaft runout (the shaft will hop up & down motion) can not exceed 3-thousands of an inch otherwise the gears will not work.  Also consider your riding style.  If you like to ride hard the runout (unbalancing/misaligning crankshaft webs) can easily creep beyond .003" and the gears will clash causing catastrophic havoc to the engine.  There really is "no fix" for this Twin-Cam engine defect.  Even the new hydraulic system still has chain tension shoes that will eventually wear out and if you don't catch it in time, the shoes can disintegrate just like the old spring-tension system and cause the cam chain to slap against metal causing total engine failure, usually by clogging the oil pump with metal chips.

"Every Twin-Cam engine has the cam chain follower defect, even the new models.  If it has a cam chain it has a problem!  And every single one of these engines will seize up without warning.  Will it be today, tomorrow or next year?  That is the question you have to ask yourself.  It may be ten years from now depending on the miles on your engine, but rest assured it is going to fail 100% guaranteed and guess who is going to pay for it?"

Note:  Be aware that pre '06 Dyna's and the 1999 to 2006 Twin-Cam Harley-Davidson engines are seriously defective and they will blow up.  How?  As the spring loaded cam chain follower fails is shreds plastic material that fouls the rotary gear oil pump cutting off oil flow to the engine causing sudden catastrophic engine failure and destruction.  Also metal to metal contact produces metal filings to disperse into the oil prior to being filtered by the oil filter.  Be prepared to buy a completely new motor.  Rebuilding the engine may not be feasible.

New Harley Engines Will Fail Too!

  And don't think you are out of the woods if you have the new hydraulic cam chain tensioners for model years 2007 to present.  They will fail beyond the factory warranty period.  The problem was not fixed, it was only delayed to, on average, fail above 50,000 miles.  Check the fine print in your extended warranty as this cam chain related failure may not be protected.  Yikes!  You may be required to endure expensive periodic inspections to retain the warranty.  The fact the hydraulic cam chain adjusters still have nylon pads rubbing against chains the pads will still wear out and big-time havoc happens!  

"Believe it or not!  When the engine fails it is not covered under warranty!  Dealers will tell you it is a failed maintenance issue.  In other words, you failed to pay the dealer to tear your engine apart to inspect the condition of the cam chain followers on a routine basis.  This is not fair dealings, but it is what you will get when buying a Harley-Davidson.  It's the price you will pay to play."  

Did you read that right?  Imagine if you bought a new car and they tell you you must have the engine disassembled every 15,000 to keep your warranty!  Nobody does that to customers, but Harley-Davidson?  Not cool, bro.  Not cool at all.  This problematic engine defect in the Twin-Cam engine is terrifying, at least I found it so, there is no way I will buy another T-C engine bike.  And that's just one engine defect... read on!  It gets scarier.

Note:  Are the 2007 and newer Twin-Cam engines safe?  No!  Do not be fooled.  Hydraulic cam chain followers are now used getting rid of the stiff spring that put too much pressure on the followers rubbing on the cam chain, but this is "no cure" as it only "delays" the problem.  Instead of the engine failing at 15,000 to 30,000 miles it now fails at 50,000 to 75,000 miles.  There is only one cure... get rid of the chain system entirely and switch to gear driven cams.  Do your research now and budget your repair.  Do not wait until the engine fails because if you ride a Twin-Cam Harley the engine is going to blow up!  The old spring-loaded cam chain tensioner system affected the 1999-2006 model Twin-Cam engines.  You can upgrade the cam drive system to the late-style hydraulic tensioners with improved low-friction chains or gear drive with the newer cam plate and higher capacity oil pump.  The higher capacity oil pump was introduced in 2007.   Any competent repair shop can guide you as to what you should do with your specific model year H-D motorcycle.

"You won't get a straight honest answer from Harley dealers regarding this awful engine defect.  I have been lied to by dealers and given a run-around by dealer employees.  It just happened again July 2, 2011 in Carson City, NV Harley-Davidson dealer.  The service writer would not answer my questions, gave me a song and dance and refused to forward my questions and concerns to the mechanic or management and frankly upset me with sarcastic comments.  Problem is a problem exists and Harley-Davidson dealers are actively not giving straight answers to customers.  That is a deceptive business practice and it is against the law under false and misleading advertising and dishonest business practices concealing known facts from the consumer prior to sale!"

Note: You will not hear any rubbing sounds or receive any indications the cam follower has failed even is you have quiet stock exhaust pipes on the bike.  The engine will fail suddenly and catastrophically and it may even take you down to the pavement as the engine oil coats your rear wheel.  This is a dangerous and expensive engine defect nobody wants to talk about, but it is a real threat to your health, safety and your finances.

New Development on Cam Follower Problem:  Installing a gear drive system is not the cure and may actually cause severe engine damage in the future if installed.  First, the crankshaft run out (up and down, left and right motion, not thrust of the crankshaft) must be within a tight tolerance.  The problem is the gears are "stacked" one upon another instead of side-by-side so if the crankshaft is out of alignment (and it will get out of alignment just with normal wear the crank and camshaft bearings) the gears will "compress together" and that can break the engine cases, bearings, crankshaft, cams and it devastates the engine to near worthlessness.  So, it there is now cure now for the Harley-Davidson Twin-Cam engine.  This indicates why Harley-Davidson has no cure "real" for this cam chain tensioners shoe problem.


And ON and ON....

[nogrey]

Some do it due to age and find they look new but have  piece of mind.
Now back to your machine, listen very closely. YOU NEED TO RIDE HER! :2funny:20k in 17 yrs that is less than 1400 per year that's a two day trip, she will like you a bunch more if you take her out and twist her tail every now and then.

That wasn't my experience at all. Nor the experience of several others. I replaced the belts on my '97 tourer with a whopping 8k miles on it. The tensioners had black goo on them and the belts had a wear pattern on the back. I personally had put 5.5K miles on the bike. It had sat for 17 years prior. There was no indication of an issue and the tensioners spin freely and were not over tight. I'm sure they were still at factory setting. If it's not obvious, I don't stand with the bunch that touts leaving the belts on until you "check" them at 100k miles. That (in my opinion) is reckless. Anyone who deals in rubber products will tell you that 72 months is about the time rubber compounds begin to wear down due to age. Don't take my word for it, check the belt manufacturers websites and ask your local tire dealer if he'll warranty a 6 year old tire that has no miles on it. 
My take is, your bike is over 15years old. It's a classic. The engine is a thing of beauty and engineered to last. The rubber on it isn't. Look at all the tech posts about "change your O-rings", "Change your vacuum hoses", "change your vacuum caps", "Don't ride on old tires" etc, etc, etc. What I am seeing here on the board is a fear of changing the timing belts because of the possibility of really screwing something up. Well, I agree with them there. I just replaced the heads on a friends goldwing because he didn't take the time to read the instructions. Yes, you can really "F" up the motor if you don't read the instructions and line up the timing marks as instructed. Of course, all you have to do is rotate the engine with a wrench to check before starting it to avoid issues. But many on the board here would rather have you just wait because "there are no reported instances of belts breaking on Valkyries". My question is, do you want to be the first one? (actually, there already are reports of broken belts and catastrophic damage, just not on this board). Just my 2 cents, but I'm saying it. I don't understand all the nay-sayers who want to coax others into not changing their aging belts for whatever reason. I just don't understand it.
BTW, anyone, and I mean anyone can do this job. Just take your time and invest in a shop manual. You need one anyway.

u really don't know what your talking about. your pushing emotional engineering.
But I know facts never trump emotions, but I will try again for the last time with you.
"rubber" is not used. they are engineered synthetic materials.
please do yourself a favor and look up the materials the timing belts are made of. it is not rubber.
Like I wrote before in the other thread, the high end Gates water pump/fan belt drive belt (not made of rubber) used on diesel trucks is rated for 100k miles and their actual fleet testing has vehicles with 250k+ miles on the belt and still going. those belts are exposed to much more harsh conditions than a GL's enclosed timing belts.
they are of similar materials and construction.
And u still haven't answered my question of why Gates has conflicting reasons of when to change the belts, from the manual u originally posted about. They want to sell belts sooner, GET IT?!

and I bet u change your synthetic oil every 2-3k miles, cause its cheap insurance. Hogwash.
Have a nice day and God Bless you, for I am done responding to you.

OK, even though you continue to be condescending, disrespectful and rude, I will also make an attempt.
Fine, even though nearly everyone uses the term "rubber" when talking about timing belts, this is technically inaccurate. Hopefully this will give you a modicum of delight. That being said, the web is replete with automotive sites that refer to them as "rubber". Probably because it's easier to say than the materials which actually make up the belt. This however, is outside the scope of this conversation and has nothing to do with the fact the 60 to 72 months seems to be the age that manufacturers put on the time limit for their life. I also find it interesting that many automotive manufacturers have gone back to using timing chains. For example, the 1800 engines Honda motorcycle company puts on their cruisers  all use timing chains instead of belts. Why do you suppose that is?
This "discussion" began as just that, a discussion. That was until you began your diatribe using language one normally reserves for their untamed dog. I do not respond well to this type of "communication", should you wish to call it that. BTW, "your" refers to something possessed by a person. "You're", which you fail to use, is the proper way to say "you are", a pet peeve of mine.
I will not attempt to answer your question regarding why Gates, or any other entity may provide conflicting information. You have to ask them yourself. Not sure why it is that you feel I should know the answer to that.
I do not deal in "emotional engineering", as you call it. This seems to be your forte. I won't waste my time on your insults.
Whether or not you know what you're (notice the use of the word there) talking about is certainly up for debate.
Diesel truck belts, 100K, 150K. We were talking about time not miles. GET IT?!
As for your bet on my synthetic oil change intervals. Once a year or 6K miles, whichever comes first. Because some of us realize that even though the oil may not break down, the dirt still gets in there as do exhaust debris.
God has richly blessed me, thank you for that. And don't think that I have not learned from this discourse. I have, from you, and others. I am in no way afraid to learn, or admit error. That is what I am here for. Not to insult those who make sincere attempts to help others. Being a Christian, I don't need to tell you, that God looks on the heart. My son, who is a pastor told me just today "When the desire to be right trumps the desire to be truthful, truth becomes illusive". I agree.
Have a good day.

[BigBF]

Paladin528, this in the manual .....






*Btw, why the sealant on this particular bolt? (MarkT, thanks just the same.)

Why bother to use sealant on one bolt? I have work on so many Valkyries, I have not see one I mean once that has wet on the end of bolt and is still dry.
After I put it back on and I don't use sealant at all.
There are few that was stuck and broke it, I often wonder if that has been sealed or maybe someone put  loc-lite on thread? Or maybe it's just corrosive? Yes I do see white on the bolt so it must have some wet got in there but all other bolt didn't? Maybe there's pin hole from outside engine on top? I should look at that when I get home in sept and I'll heck the engine on my cart and see.

Timing belts will last 100,000 miles but age???  Some of you mention about why not replace hoses, spark plugs, etc... Timing belt has moving parts and other is not. Vacuum hose yes bec it sputter by shrink and expand vacuums and spilt some fuel in...

Replace timing belts is way cheaper than fix the engine or swap the engine...

[Beardo]

Replaced my timing belts today, they only had 45,000 miles on them but they were the originals, so 17 years old. They were like new, no signs of wear whatsoever. But I still don't regret it. I know for sure they're good now.

Also changed the original spark plugs too. They were fine, but for the $20, while I had them out to inspect them, figured might as well replace them too.

I think we have lots of evidence they don't NEED to be replaced this soon, but to me, piece of mind and getting to spend a few hours on the bike isn't the worst thing I could be doing.

[rev383]

desertrefugee, thank you for the white paper!

[garball45]

Thanks for asking that Q. I just bought a one-owner  2000 Valk with only 5000 original miles.  I'm somewhat concerned about belts, brakes, etc.   was ridden fairly regularly, but no very far.  If anyone out there has any maintain ideas that I should perform prior to a long ride, i would appreciate ur input.  Thx.  Gary. Galt CA. 

[98valk]

Thanks for asking that Q. I just bought a one-owner  2000 Valk with only 5000 original miles.  I'm somewhat concerned about belts, brakes, etc.   was ridden fairly regularly, but no very far.  If anyone out there has any maintain ideas that I should perform prior to a long ride, i would appreciate ur input.  Thx.  Gary. Galt CA. 

brake and clutch fluid. half can B12 in tank, go ride. read drive gear oil when u get back.