A TRUE 1800 Super Valk?

[Jess from VA]

Tried a half dozen different sprays, and nothing worked.

You're lucky to get out of that without a sting or five.

I got invaded by yellow jackets two years running, and I got stung before I ever knew they were there.  Both times I was running a machine over/near ground nests that had not been there a week earlier.  They were not as big as yours, but big enough to make me run like Jesse Owens (once, they came in the house with me, must have been on me, but then disbursed and I found single dead ones over the next month, all over.  And though not anaphylactic, I reacted much worse to these stings than the many I got as a kid.  The sting was bad enough, but the swelling and stiff joints from only a couple stings made me worry a bit, for a few days.  And benadryl makes me nauseous.

The only way I dealt with them, was at night when they are all home and quiet, and gas down the hole with ignition for total victory (probably not a good idea on the house).  If I went after them in daylight with WD40 and got them all worked up, those bastards would have killed me.  When they form up for an attack brother they are all in to the death.  

Glad it worked out with the exterminator.  

Moral of this story, at least for me, is I am now always keeping my eyes out for yellow jackets, esp in Spring nesting.  If I see a couple, I hunt them.  I also have big carpenter bees, bumblebees, and some white faced wasps, and none of them give me any trouble, so we live and let live.  The only good yellow jacket is a flat one.  

BTW, thanks for sharing your project with us (and the pics).  It's way beyond my skill set, but I'm still interested. 

  

[pago cruiser]

Picked up the Donor yesterday, and spent today stripping off all the broken Tupperware.  The gent I purchased it from was run off the road, and somehow flipped the bike - end for end.  The only piece of plastic not damaged is the radiator cover on the right side.  Every single piece is broken off or shattered or cracked or severely abraded.

Home after a 500 mile day:




Took me all day to strip her, which also included re-fabbing a muffler mount out of a friends partial rear subframe.  He Triked his 1800, and they only use part of the rear subframe; the rest is just cut off and discarded.  The subframe and the right muffler on the donor was bent and touching the swingarm, which explained the lack of shock travel when I loaded it up.  I was able to use the partial subframe to hack a jig together and see about where things should line up.

Bent muffler:




After almost 12 hours, finally got a almost runner.  Mu plan is to ride it a bit to make sure all systems are working ok, and then use it as a test bed to start pulling wiring off.  It is unbelievable how many gizmos and doodads are electric on this bike.  Would you believe remote control trunk and saddlebag locks?  Wiring fricken everywhere...

Have a couple things to do before I can ride it.  The right footpeg was busted off in the crash; need to order a new one; $18 at Partzilla.  The left handlebar was tweaked bad, and trying to straighten it, it broke off.  It's a weird design, with aluminum risers and a steel 7/8" tube pressed in for controls and handgrips.  Then the left radiator mounting bracket is literally held on by tie wraps; all the mounts broke in the crash.  And both fork seals are blown.  Oil everywhere, including the brake pads.   Did not get time to pull the forks, but need to check before running down the freeway.  That fender sure seems awfully close to the engine.

So.  Here she is.  All I can say is... some girls are more purty with their clothes on...


She's now locked away in the storage shed till next week.  Oh.  And if anyone ever takes the fairing off a 2003 GL1800, there is a critical part that you may miss.  Without that fricken tip-over switch wired in or bypassed, you can crank for hours without the bike starting; all the while thinking WTF happened ???



 

[knockdolian]

Been following this one with great interest. Anyone can ride stock !!! eagerly awaiting an update 

[salty1]

Been following this one with great interest. Anyone can ride stock !!! eagerly awaiting an update 

DITTO!   

[pago cruiser]

ARGHHH.  Soon.  I hope.  I've only had about an hour the last three weeks on this...
 

Work has been a bugger lately. Going thru some downsizing in our firm.  Lost 4 people this week, some departments to half time, some pay cuts.  I'm ok for now, but working really long hours on salary...  I commute 100 miles/day, so not a lot of spare time for anything.  Leave at dark, home after dark.  Just like Ground Hog day, but without the Andie MacDowell eye candy... This economy still sucks, I don't care what the gov't says...
 

That said, the best part of the day is riding the Valk to/from work...   Occasionally I'll have to carpool with the wife.  I hate driving a commuter car... boring and gutless, and at the mercy of all the nitwits around you without the power to control the situations their dumbassedness (is that a word???) creates.

Sigh.  Time to quit whining; it could always be worse...   stay tuned...

[pago cruiser]

Finally got a day off after 21 straight...

Got the billet shock mount mounted and kind of figured out. 
   

There is only about 1/4" clearance twixt the 1800 swingarm and the sidestand crossmember on the Valk.  But the darn bolts holding the sidestand and the billet to the crossmember get in the way, so I am going to solid weld the bolt holes and tap the threads into the crossmember.  This will let me bolt it up in about the correct position, and then once I get the top mount spotted in place anf the swingarm and wheel on, then I can see if I will need more clearance.  The master plan on the bottom mount is to replace the thin tube oval member with something a bit beefier.  I'd like to keep the new piece about the same size as the existing crossmember, so it does not protrude "down".  So I'm pretty much limited to about 1/2" in depth, so it may be a solid 2" x 1".  Heavy, and not very structurally efficient, but it's the strongest member I can install.  The problem is that the shock imparts a shear, tension, and subsequent torsion load on the crossmember, via the billet piece and the connecting bolts.  So I can't use a unidirectional strength piece (like an I Beam), and cannot reinforce it without limiting swingarm motion.  A challenge, but not insurmountable...

Got the 1.25" 120 wall DOM tubing crossmember rough fabbed as well.  Did not want to go solid, but was still concerned about the point loading from the shock.  So fabbed a collar to reinforce the crossmember right where the shock mounts will go.

  

Had a company with a water jet spit out some shock mounts that will then go on the collar.



Water jetting parts is the cats pajamas in fab work...   I would have been half a day fabbing these; I dropped of my paper pattern in the morning, and picked 'em up in the afternoon; a deal for $20. 

I'm going to try and use a stock GL1800 shock with the hydraulic adjuster.  Now all I need is some more wrenching time...

[Glenn-B]

Thank you for this super thread. Reading through it with great interest from across the pond. Having seen the GL1800 with out its plastics I can now understand why your using a Valk frame. If you'd tried "Valking" the GW it I think it would probably have ended up looking like a new F6B custom project  

Keep up the good work. Looking forward to the next instalment 

[pago cruiser]

2 1/2 weeks later, finally got some more wrench time in.  It is exceedingly frustrating to only get a couple hours every couple weeks; seems I spend half my wrenching time trying to remember where I was before... ???

But made some good progress today.  Got the swingarm on, the front forks/wheel on, and ready for fabbing the rear shock mount.  Kind of a one step foreward and half a step back, but its progress.

Had to weld in some bungs into the lower crossmember to attach the lower shock mount.  Tried helicoils, but it seems they have changed the design; I must have done a dozen in my two stoke racer days... but for whatever reason could not get the dam thing to thread in and stay. As soon as I started threading a bolt in, the helicoil threads would wrap around the bolt.  So I said screw it, welded in solid bungs, and then threaded those.
 



Mounted up the lower mount - still playing with dogbone length.  Had to buy a used one off ebay to have the factory length WELDED ON dogbones removed; Then I'll fit the length I need.
 

Its a tight fit.


I installed the triple tree, forks, and wheel to set the ride height.  Also installed the removable frame crossmembers and engine guards so I could prop up the frame:


About the correct swingarm angle:


That articulating shock mechanism is pretty cool.  About 3/4" of shock movement translates to 4" rear wheel travel.  The stock GL1800 has 4.1" rear travel.  I have about 3.5" in this pic:


  Without the loading of the dual Valk rear shocks, the rear subframe could be lightened considerable - so I can cut out some meat without too much concern.  It only has to hold up my fat a$$, the fender, and whatever I carry on a luggage rack.  Here's the current frame trimming, basically eliminating the top Valk stock muffler lugs and a bit more:


Need to trim the frame a bit more to pick up another 1/2" or so of rear wheel travel.  Here's a close-up of the cleanance:


My initial estimate of top shock mount was a bit off


Still going to fab the mount similar with the same crossbrace and load spreader; but I'm gonna make the ears out of 3/8" (instead of 1/4") steel, and now they'll be about 3.25" in length.  All the load is in compression, so I'll prolly make a box section to eliminate any bending due to rapid rear wheel travel in excess of design...  I'd rather have the Honda shock stop take the load than my frame...

Hopefully I can get the upper mount squared away, and then I'll have a roller!  I've already done the engine mock-up and solved most (I think...) of the interference issues.  Got the U-joint built, alignment works, and gambled (successfully!) on a 2014 Valkyrie ebay starter being shorter than a bonafide GL1800.  I'm not going to install reverse, as it is a really complicated system of switches, safeties, relays, and wiring.  Seems no one on the 1800 forum had any info on starter differences; the 1/2" shorter length avoiads having to mod the upper crossbar above the swingarm.  Best $100 I ever spent...

It's ...supposed... to be the same except for the reverse gear.  I almost have the donor bike running (need to change fork seals and mount/wire a headlight and tailight), and will swap starters before I pull the engine to test.  That donor bike is going to turn heads going down the freeway...




More to come, albeit slowly...
 

[Mr Whiskey]

Dude, were your ears burnin' this weekend?
Having come from a 2000 Valk IS to an 2005 Wing alot of people ask me about the differences between the two bikes, & your project was mentioned repeatedly in conversation at the Fall Color Ride this weekend. (1800cc, FI, singleside swingarm for ease of maintenance, all in a "cool" Valk configuration.)
I hadn't read all your thread 'till today & was unaware of the monumental progress you've made in this endeavor. Kudos Bro!
Lookin' forward to the finished product (she's gonna be AWESOME)!

P.S. I know this is WAY down the road but please put me in line for one of those "cook books" when you get it all written up, haha!
Sincerely in awe, DG.

[pago cruiser]

Thanks for the kind words. I do enjoy a challenge; and as I tell the wife, it keeps me out of the bars...   Just wish I had more time to devote to it.

Got a bit done on the donor.  Pulled the forks, pulled them apart, changed seals and checked for trueness.  The PO indicated that he was run off the road, and that the bike actually endo'd, and then spent time on both sides before coming to rest on him.  Surprisingly, the tubes were... almost... ok.  Close enough to not worry about for my testing purposes.  I'll ride it for a month or so and makes sure everything is working.

Lord is this thing fugly:


After the forks I changed the oil, and pulled the cylinder head guards.  Dang.  It's like the bike scooped up a couple shovels of desert.  Both sides were like this, as well as small rocks in many other various places.  The header pipes are also dented on both sides - which were underneath the stock covers! 

The right front also had a bunch of oil mixed with the dirt.  Think I found the reason:


I have been starting it every couple weeks, just to minimize the possibility of the f'in ethanol gumming up the injectors.  Once at temp, the bike smells oily.  Must be some other oil spill on top of the engine that is all but impossible to get at. 

In doing general cleanup, it has a lot of road grime.  A LOT.  I was thinking way more than the 25000 miles the PO indicated.  He had not ridden it for years, but just the crud looked like a higher mileage bike.  Things like road tar stuck on the wheels, lots of areas with what appears dirt encrusted oil.  Then I found this:


5.5 years ago he changed the oil at 19,916 and shortly thereafter he wrecked her.  And now it has 25000.  As expected by the oil filter out front, it's a little beat up on the leading edge.  I ended up crushing it to get it off.  But I guess the uncontrolled ride through the desert made it appear a lot older and beat up.  Heck, there are spots on the rims that have 1/8" deep gouges - rocks I guess.

Oil came out as black as the slime creature that killed Tasha Yar.     Guess 5.5 years can do that. 

Feel a lot better seeing the oil filter date.  Just wish he would have told me about the welded cylinder head cover; as well as some other odd looking repairs not visible until you start stripping plastic off.  But if it's leaking, it can be re-welded or replaced. 

About sunset I looked up, as the house wall adjacent had turned orange/red.  We live way out in the sticks by choice, and get glorious sunsets and night skies.  Here's one of the best I've seen in awhile:


Till next time...



 

[Memor86]

Hello! do you have any updates on this really cool project?

[gordonv]

Bump!

[mark81]

Bump!

yes, bump, I would really like to see some progress on this or at least know if the whole project has been scrapped

[RDKLL]

I was interested as well...looks like his last post was about 6 months ago, back in July '16

[pago cruiser]

After a longer than expected haitus, I'm back on the case.
Almost.
Hope to be able to get things going again the next couple weekends.
No roadblocks, just life and work getting in the way.
Sigh.

Sure is nice having the photo docs I did over 2 years ago... saved a lot of head scratching...
Used Photobucket for years, so not sure why everything has not disappeared - but I printed everything out just to remember where I was.  Now just have to find my parts...

Good news is that I found a guy who lives about 5 miles from me (we are way out in the sticks south of Tucson), who can bend big steel - up to 1.5" 3/8" wall 4130.  Don't need it quite that wall thickness, but I am going to have to make some custom steel inserts for the front downtubes to match the GL1800 engine.  And also the side mount frame pieces that cradle the engine.   

That and he welds a lot better than I.  I have come to the conclusion that while I can tack stuff with the best of them, my limited attempts at structural (as in, it don't break when I hit it with a 5 lb hammer) final welding (220VAC Miller MIG) generally serve to just increase my grinding skills...

[..]

Woo Hoo more popcorn needed.

[Jack B]

I was  wondering what ever happened with this the project.
I will be watching.

[larue]

Was wondering what happened to this build, glad you're back on it, I'll be following 

[pago cruiser]

Time for a brief update...
Its a runner!


Well, the donor is:


Rode it the 50 miles into town on my commute to get it titled and registered today.  Runs really, really well.  I am impressed.  Definitely a bit smoother, longer, and longer legged feeling.  Stupid uncomfortable handlebar/seat relationship though.  If I end up riding it a bit I will have to change the bars at least.  I swear I must have pulled 100 lbs of plastics and steel and hardware off. 

Had a bit of a conversation with the Police running the Level 3 inspection at the DMV - necessary to get the title from "Salvage" to "Salvage Restored".   After about 30 minutes of him "inspecting" things (you are not allowed to watch, and he is in a garage with vision blocked) he came out and questioned why I changed the engine.  Actually, more of an accusation.  Told him I did not.  He gave me a rather disdainful look and went back in the shop.  I was half expecting a tow truck to come around the corner and haul the bike off to impound. ARGHHJ!   Instead, he came out about 20 minutes later and said that I and the bike was free to go...  I asked him what he meant by the engine change - and he said that "their database matching frame VIN to engine numbers did not match the bike".  But that he got it figured out.  Quote unquote.  WTF?

I know that frames/engine numbers have not matched on (I think) most bikes for decades my 1983 XS650 match, but none of my other bikes do.  But I had no idea LEOs have a separate database matching these numbers together???

Anyhow, then went in the massive DMV office to get plates.  And discovered I had been robbed!  I went into the inspection area with 6 cylinders... and came out with 2!

 

So in the last couple weeks I have obtained a set of stock 1800 pipes, mufflers, wiring harness, ignition coils, beater heads, gotten the Valk triple tree powder coated, new triple tree bearings, and a 1500 radiator to test fit.  Hope to start assembling onto the frame and get the block positioned and a roller next. 

I am using Smugmug now, so none of my pics should be disappearing in the Photophuckers debacle.    Is it possible for a Mod to permanently link the pics I still have on Photobucket to the thread?  It would be a pisser to have them all go away...

[hubcapsc]

Is it possible for a Mod to permanently link the pics I still have on Photobucket to the thread?  It would be a pisser to have them all go away...

You can do it. I did it to many of my posts when Clemson broke everyone's
urls...

Pull up your post.

Press the edit button.

You can edit all the urls in the post right there, or you can cut and
paste the entire post into some editor on your peecee that you like,
and edit them all there.

When I got a new place to store my pictures, I left the file names all
the same. That way, after pasting one of my posts into my favorite
editor, I just changed the "myweb.clemson.edu" part of each url
to "sites.google.com/site/sitename" with global edit.

-Mike "why does your goldwing motor only have two cylinders? "

[3W-lonerider]

I like the Valk Magnum; or maybe the Magnum Valk!

Been looking at places for a frame (including copart), but it seems as soon as something gets to the commercial guys the price goes berserk. Found a recently wrecked Valk up in ID courtesy of another poster; the price was kind of reasonable ($2250) for the entire bike.  But it had gone down on the freeway, and flipped on both sides at speed; pretty buggered up.  That said, if it was closer I would have checked it out.  But between his price and shipping, I would be looking at $3k.  That's nuts.  There is a Valk Tourer on Craigslist here right now with 40k, asking $3500.  But I'm trying to hold out for an IS, as I'd like the bigger tank.

Had a minor setback on the u-joint.  Seems Motor Trike corporate does not feel that using their u-joint on a stock GL1800 drive train is safe.  They will not sell it "as it is against policy".  Asshats.  See below for correspondence from a local Motor Trike dealer:

"Ok man it is not looking good on this ujoint. They don’t want to sell it for your application. Company policy.

If you still have the splined section that you cut off. You can take it to a quality welding shop and have them weld it on.  I would suggest a drive shaft shop.

It looks like that is the best I can do for you. Unless you want to pay 300 for the entire drive shaft.

Sorry again. Sometimes I don’t know what they are thinking."


And my response:

"Sorry to hear that.

Company policy?  That's a REALLY astute and forward looking company if they have a policy about putting a GL1800 driveline in a Valk frame.  Kudos to their crystal ball department. :-)

Christ, it's a u-joint made by a machinist (maybe a couple dozen per run) to adapt the Motor Trike rear end to a stock GL1800 output shaft.  It is heavier duty than a stock component, as you were having failures.  It is also a slightly different design (shorter), which is what met my application requirement.

I guess somebody feels that using this u-joint in a STOCK GL1800 driveline application (engine, driveshaft, swingarm, final drive, wheel) is not a suitable application, and thereby represents some type of risk.  By what kind of logic does someone reach this conclusion?

I'll probably go the welded route, but it is not that simple.  Still needs truing, balancing, and heat treating; and getting technical work done here in Tucson is tough. 

That said, thanks for the offer on purchasing the entire driveshaft.  I hope that is still viable.  Your product is still the best solution.  Would you please confirm you can indeed order this complete part?  Just as a "replacement part for some guy with a Motor Trike who just walked in off the street"?  I am serious.

Its REALLY a good thing that I did not tell them my actual use; I am secretly building the dual engine, dual blower, nitrous burning, Triumph Rocket 3 streamliner bike for an assault on the Bonneville land speed record next month; you may have heard about it.  And I'm trying to use a Motor Trike GL1800 driveshaft.  That way if it blows up I can sue Motor Trike...

Darn, they saw right through my real motive.

Thanks."

The dealer was basically shut down selling the u-joint by Motor Trike.  We had talked a bit, and I am guess that he made small talk to the parts person, and soon it made it up to the corporate suits...  Lawyers are the bane of this country.  If these asshats were totally in charge they would shut the company down; everybody knows motorcycles are deadly.  Of course, several hundred people would be out of a job, but it would eliminate the possibility of being sued.  But I digress..    

Going to see the one guy in town (Tucson) who can do this work; at least everything except the heat treating. 

Just had a thought: if anybody knows someone with a GL1800 Motor Trike, I would appreciate a PM. 

Sigh.  

motortrikes ujoint would not have worked for your project. so them turning you down was a blessing that you didn't buy it to find out it would not work.
heres the reason.
yes the front yoke would work perfectly, probably.
but it's the back yoke you would have issues with.
the motor trike driveshaft is splined completely different from the gl1800 and the 1500. Hondas drive shaft will not fit into motortrikes yoke.
you would've had to go to a driveshaft company and either had motortrikes drive shave redesigned to fit the rear or had a brand new one made to go from the yoke to the rear...

[pago cruiser]

Finally got a chance to make some incremental progress today.  First day off in 2 weeks...

Have been hunting for a F6B or new Valk shock; determined I will not have room for that cool hydro preset adjuster on the stock Wing.  Finally found a dealer on ebay closing out their Progressive F6B stock of shocks.  $200!  Cool beans!



Moved a bunch of stuff around so I could get to all sides of the Valk frame.  Got the rear shock mount measured for final fab.  As my tabs were "a bit off" in the previous iteration (2 years ago - jeeze)  I put my water jet buddy to work again.



That thing started as a 2" cube of mild steel, cut into a "U" shape. Then I welded on a top tube receiver/socket.  They will be joined by a short steel tube of as-yet unknown length to set my ride height.  Think I will drill a hole in the receivers/socket so I can experiment with different lengths of joiner. I have allowed about 1" over my "stock" Valk for determining a ride height, measured at the top shock bolt - once that lump of an engine is in there , everything is going to compress.  That said, my "stocker" has 1" over Racetech shocks: love the extra ride height and slightly quicker turn in.  If at all possible, I'm going to try and match the geometry of the Valk Sport with my original. Once I get it running and dialed in, will weld everything up.  Will also need to bend/cut a little more on the starboard side of the frame for the swingarm to fit at full shock compression.

I've already trial fit the engine, although it was just setting on blocks.  But it fits, and the driveshaft/starter/water pump, alternator issues are mostly resolved.  Next it setting it in the frame and bolting it up; made some paper templates today, and will be cutting some aluminum versions of the rear mounts; easier to cut, as I will prolly be doing this a few times.  The front mounts will be more work...once my roller is rolling with the engine held in place by the rear mounts (and prolly a temp stay or 2), will transport the rig to a friends shop and we'll bend some tubular steel inserts to go into the front downtubes.



Speaking of work, my job always seem to demand more of my time than I would like; combined with just... life (motorhome purchase and trip last year, new hip this year, yada yada) my projects seem to draw out way longer than I would like; this things has been 2 fricken years!  Wish I had a solution...    While it's good to be wanted at work (we have shrunk 30% in the last 2 years), 75 hour weeks on salary just...how can I say this... suck.  Anyhow... In the interest of saving some time, I'm thinking now of using a new Valk dash, wiring harness, ECU, and whatever other bits and bobs needed to make the system work.  Although I have picked up a 2003 Wing wiring harness, it must weigh 40 lbs!  Ii would then require prolly a month of my meager weekends trying to strip it down to the essentials; and then I would still have that Honda Accord inspired dash to deal with ...Yuck.  Posted a query over on the 1800 section of the site for any info on differences between Wing and Valk hardware. 

Trying really hard to stay on the case this time until I git'er done.  We'll see. Have rented an F6B for a little ride to southern CO with some friends next week.  Looking forward to getting out of the office for awhile...

[pago cruiser]

Finally got a good weekend of wrenching in:

Shock mount is fabbed and tacked in.


Side view - I can still swap the spacer to dial in rear ride weight:


Ended up changing the swingarm bearings - used the GL1800 bearings with machined inserts to adapt to the stock Valk bolts:


Had to grind some more off on the frame to get the swingarm to fit - but not enough to affect structural:


With the additional clearance, I now have 4.5" rear wheel travel - up from 4.1" stock:


Rear fender fits at full compression:


I've set tide height about 1" over stock to allow for adding engine and stuff to the frame:


The swingarm clears the frame members by about 1/8" at top and bottom of travel:


Started the engine mounts:


The 1800 engine actually fits pretty clean: Even the Valk rails look like they will work - although it will take some custom bracketry to pick up all the 1800 engine mounts:


Still need to fab the front engine mounts - but it looks like with some more bracketry I can use the stock case guards.


This did confirm a problem that I saw a few years (!) ago.  The 1800 protrudes forward past the front mounts about 4": the stock Valk protrudes about 1.5".  Bummer.  I just ordered a front case cover off ebay, so I can fit it, with the radiator, and then see if/how bad it conflicts with the fender at front fork compression.  If it hits... options are to use the 6 degree raked trees I had on the sidecar; although I am not sure the handling would be acceptable; or I could literally extend the frame by about 2"; cut the top tubes, insert 2 spacers, and weld up.  Sounds harder than it is.  But there is a good frame guy here in Tucson; need to figure out how bad the problem is first.

Once I got the shock/swingarm mounted, I also noticed the wheel is slightly off center. 


Hard to see here, but the clearance to the shock mount is 1" on the right, and 1/2" on the left.  So it is off by 1/4".  I'm going to run with it as it is, as there are other bigger things to deal with right now.  That said, I believe that some Nortons (arguably one of the better handling bikes of the 20th century) had that...issue; as well as several Harleys IIRC.  Worse case, I can get the wheel cut and offset the beads; a company in Calif has been doing that for awhile.

Hopefully get the engine mounts figured out next week.  Will be some trial and error  there is only about 1/4" clearance on all sides of the u-joint relative to the aluminum swingarm cavity.  But the fabbed new u-joint fits well.   

It was really odd tacking that shock mount into place off-center.  But it is... 

[Hook#3287]

Looking good

[Jack B]

I enjoy following your journey it is a big project.
I wish I had you skills. 

[The emperor has no clothes]

I enjoy following your journey it is a big project.
I wish I had you skills. 

+1  (you might need to hone those cylinders though) 

[Kep]

I enjoy following your journey it is a big project.
I wish I had you skills. 

+1  (you might need to hone those cylinders though) 

I believe that's just the "mock-up motor"

[Valkorado]

Wow, some amazing skill and great perseverance on display here.  Ambitious project for sure.

[The emperor has no clothes]

I enjoy following your journey it is a big project.
I wish I had you skills. 

+1  (you might need to hone those cylinders though) 

I believe that's just the "mock-up motor"

(just my sad attempt at a joke)

[pago cruiser]

Thanks guys.
I don't really think I am that skilled compared to some of the posts and builds I have seen - but I am like a dog with a favorite bone... just too hard headed to quit.  Although my long suffering wife says its closer to anal-retentiveness...  It's also prolly why we are still married after 35 years...

It is indeed just the mockup motor, which was returned to the owner by the local Honda dealer after being driven over a curb by a Trike guy.  The cases were cracked, so his insurance spent $1500 for a new crankcase and another $3000 for the swap; the original owner was kind enough to donate them to my little project.  While they are prolly repairable, my use is just to have a manageable weight lump to jostle around and get to fit in the frame.  

Spent some more time after work tonight grinding on the Valk side rails to get them to fit - really really close to working.  But the REALLY good news is that the case protrusion forward of the crash bar mounts is really only about 1" beyond the stock Valk!  I was comparing the right side of the 1800 with the left side of the Valk - strangely enough, the Valk cases protrude different distances port to starboard  ???  That was a big relief, cause I really do not want to rake the trees, and cutting/extending the frame would have been a royal PITA.  Hopefully the ebay front cover will make it here by the weekend so I can trial fit.

Am hoping to get the engine aligned and some temp front mounts made to position/hold it in place so I can bolt the heads on, fuel injection manifold, exhaust, etc..  Am still thinking to cut off the cast steel insert and have a piece of tubing bent to insert and then meet the engine case mounts:

 

The other good news is that the engine protrudes 4.0" below the crash bar cross member; the stock Valk cases protrude 4.25"!  Yea!

BTW, if anybody has or hears of a line on a totalled 2014+Valk, I am interested.  Thinking of using the wiring harness and that cool display - which will also then need the ECU (aka the PGM/FI unit).  The local Honda dealer treats me pretty good - usually slightly better than Cheap Cycle Parts. But I am still looking at about $2k for those three items - and with 2014-2015 Valks going for $10k, a salvage bike would prolly be around $4k - which would also give me lots of other parts to play with...   
 

[pago cruiser]

Now that I kind of know the solutions of the pending known problems (a stronger cross-member for the shock mount, and either a flat plate or a bent and inserted tube for the front mounts), figured I'd bolt up some other stuff and see what else will work - or not.

Bolted on the heads, fuel injection manifold/throttle bodies, the Valk air box, and the stock IS tank: Cool to see it all together:



It appears the Valk air box will work - although just placing it on top of the TB's it is about 1/2" too tall.  Seems I have ...misplaced...the Wing airbox I got from ebay a couple years; I was basically going to cut off the bottom of the Wing airbox, and build it up to adapt to the Valk airbox.  Need to hunt for it today - or order another one from ebay. 

 

Left Side:



Right side:




Close up of radiator mount:


As you can see, the stock radiator mount will be impossible to use.  I held up the radiator, and even with different mounting points it is going to protrude further forward than the stocker - because the Wing engine protrudes further. Which means I will need to look real close at the dender to radiator clearance - even though I am alre3ady using a VTX fender, which clears the tire by about 1/2".

Not sure yet how to solve this - I cannot easily move the engine back any more  - without more frame work or driveshaft work.  I do NOT want to go the 2014+ Valk route of side mount rads.
Looked at a lot of big bike radiators on ebay; including the Rune, V-Rod, GSXR, Suzukis, Concours (old and new), ST1100/1300, but the Valk radiator appears the "shortest".   Also looked at Quad radiators, but they are all much smaller engines.  May have to due a pair, maybe high and low?  Talked about this in a post awhile ago.  Or,  go maybe 1-2" less in height, and wider.  And maybe thicker. 

Found a custom radiator shop in Phoenix building rads - for about $800 he will build one 2" shorter, 4" wider, and 1/2" thicker - the stock radiator is 1.325", and he can do a core at 1.75".

Really need to think some more on this.  I ordered a front cover from ebay to see how far forward the front will actually protrude - but the schmucks did not ship it for a couple days, and now it will not get here until next week - another week gone by...

Would really like to find something more off-the-shelf, and way cheaper.  While I will spend the $ if needed (like on a wiring harness, ecu, and speedo), I'd rather engineer my way out of this than throw $ at it... Maybe take the stock 1800 radiators and mount them in front, but skewed like a shallow V?

[The emperor has no clothes]

This is coming from someone with little fabrication ability, so take it for what it's worth (little). But from the pics I don't see how you'd be able to get a radiator in front that's going to be of adequate size. I wonder if you'd be able to make an air ram that would flow enough for rads under the bike ?

[pago cruiser]

Not sure yet...
But this guy figured out something:



You can just barely see the radiator end cap through the fairing.  Do not know how much he rides it and if it is adequate riding around in Phoenix when it's 120F...  But my version needs to be fully functional.  He also did a really cool custom fuel rail; I may try and duplicate that.

There is also this - the EVO6 concept bike that never made it; a shame.  Would have saved me a ;lot of work... .
Here's a link to more data:
http://www.valkyrienorway.com/evo6.html

The radiator appears stacked like the Rune, although a lot more svelte.  I am thinking the frame has been altered from the standard 1800 as well - lots of space to put the radiator between the engine and front wheel.

At any rate, there are still some alternatives.  While I don't think I would run my 6 degree triple trees that came off my sidecar (went to a leading link), maybe a 4 degree set would be viable.  Talked to Daryl at VTX Extreme, and he indicates this would move the axle 1.75" forward (which would allow the radiator to clear the fender, I think), and also reduce the trail from 6.1" down to 4.25".  This is almost identical to the 2014 Valk at 4.5".  Heck, even the K1600 BMW trail is 4.3" - and it is a wonderfully handling bike.

Anybody have any experience with Daryl's 4 degree trees?   

[pago cruiser]

Did a search on the forum fro 4 degree trees; of all the posts I can find, all are now without pics.  I hope there is a special place in Hell for the Photobucket a$$hats.

So.  Is there anybody on-site who has Daryl's 4 degree trees who could provide a measurement from the back of the front tire to the closest part of the radiator? 

[RDKLL]

a link to the Repsol 'wing
https://thekneeslider.com/honda-cbr-1800rr-by-cedric-smith/

[Leathel]

This is coming from someone with little fabrication ability, so take it for what it's worth (little). But from the pics I don't see how you'd be able to get a radiator in front that's going to be of adequate size. I wonder if you'd be able to make an air ram that would flow enough for rads under the bike ?

I was also looking at that, I think I would extend the frame a little on the too main pipes, and of coarse insert a solid rod and plug weld it in place as well as the joint weld, you could extend the tank too giving more gas...or do a custom tank

[Leathel]

Did a search on the forum fro 4 degree trees; of all the posts I can find, all are now without pics.  I hope there is a special place in Hell for the Photobucket a$$hats.

So.  Is there anybody on-site who has Daryl's 4 degree trees who could provide a measurement from the back of the front tire to the closest part of the radiator? 

I believe there is a firefox add on program that will get those picture posts showing... or so I have read, not tried it myself

[Avanti]

Give this a look. Measurements as close as I can get for now. 

[pago cruiser]

Awesome Avanti!  
Thanks for the superb response. And that is a cool model you have going there!  Solidworks?

I measured my stock Valk, and it is 19" from the axle to the closest part of the radiator; so it looks like Daryl's numbers were spot on.  Depending upon how far the front case protrudes (which affects the radiator placement) this looks to stand a good chance of working. More on this at the end of this post.

Anyway, I received a gift from Honda this afternoon:





Absolutely incredible that the GL1800 exhaust port sizes and locations and header pipe sizes would match the Valk!  And the rear mounts are not far off as well:



I may still have to change the mufflers, depending upon how restrictive they are.  Have an idea to use a shop vac and a pressure gauge to measure both the Valk and the GL180 mufflers backpressure - if they are close, will then need to find a good set of IS pipes - the ones I'm testing came with significant rash by the PO. Will also have to modify the connectors (cut off from the GL1800 pipes and weld onto the Valk pipes), as the cylinder head stud holes did not line up.  But compared to the hassle this could have been, that is pretty straightforward.  

Got the top mount on the radiator on, but not tight to the frame - the engine case is still in the way:



It's 16.5" from axle to closest point of radiator. Here's why:



I do not have the clutch cover on (should be here Monday), but the radiator is spaced forward of the cases by about 5/8" - as measured on the donor bike clutch cover.  It cannot get any closer to the cases.  Note that this was only possible by removing the fan.  Daryl suggested I see what some of the supercharger guys are doing for heat - good advice.  Found this on the site from a few years ago:





By using (2) smaller fans, I can relocate them up above the engine case interference.  And if I have to go with a shorter radiator, they will work as well.  

But... as mentioned at the start of this post... if I could get the engine further back, a lot of these problems would go away - or at least be minimized.  And I am beginning to think about weight distribution.

Tried finding the front-back weight distribution on the Valk online this evening - nada, nuttin, zip.  So I'll get some scales and a 2x4 and figure it out tomorrow.  I did read that the 2014+ Valk is right at 50-50.  While that will be a starting point, I do not know the center of mass of the GL1800 engine ;but I can assume it is similar to the Valk.

Our Valks are pushing 700 lbs, or 350 lbs per wheel - assuming 50-50.  The GL1800 engine is a couple lbs lighter than the Valk engine: 280 lbs, about 40% of the total. If I round to 50% (with all the ancillary stuff), assume the engine weight is dead center (its not, but this is easier to figure) and THEN move that lump 2" forward, based upon a wheel base of 67", I have "moved" about 3% of the bike weight (40 lbs) from the rear to the front.  Unfortunately, the effect will probably be worse, as the engine weight is not centered between the wheels, but starts out forward of the centerline.  

What would be ideal is to find the center of mass of a GL1800 engine, and then compare that to a center of mass on the Valk engine.  Then put the center of mass in exactly the same place relative to the Valk frame.  But without that data... it's kind of a crap shoot...

Lots of room here:


Not so much here:


And shortening this any further will be a bitch...



Would have to figure a way to cut out at least a 1" section of the u-joint and then re-weld and balance - tricky stuff, when it is rotating really fast.  Don't know how fast... but that's not important right now.. .  And then would need to cut out a section of the rear upper frame cross member in order for the starter to clear, and then reinforce the cutout with another member.  A lot of work for what I am not sure will be a problem; but I won't know if it's a problem until I get it all done... sounds like a chicken and egg kinda thing...  ???

But the exhaust was still a wonderful gift...

[Leathel]

I think my old project was a 7 deg Mortons triple tree, move the wheel quite a lot more than I expected





Just for reference the kit also extended the forks by about 2" from memory.... No idea on the Valk  raked setup