Definitive information on timing belt intervals. Informational

[nogrey]

Timing Belts: Just thought for Valkyrie owners. Gates is a major manufacturer of timing belts. I buy replacement belts for my Valkyries from them. In the Gates official "Timing belt interval replacement guide", they state that timing belts should be "replaced at the vehicle manufacturers recommended intervals OR 72 months, whichever comes first". As you are probably aware, Honda Valkyrie engines will suffer catastrophic damage in the event of a timing belt crash, most likely resulting in piston and valve replacement. Whenever I buy a Valkyrie, and on all my friends Valkyrie's, one of the very first maintenance items is replacement of the timing belts. Cheap insurance to avoid a catastrophe.
This has been a public service announcement.  

[Garland]

I guess it is good preventative maintenance, but I have heard far more about problems from incorrect timing belt installation than breakage. Off hand, I can not recall anyone ever posting that they actually broke their timing belt. I replaced mine at the 10 year, 100K mark and it didn't look that bad. Petcock problems, vacuum leaks, and final drive grease would be higher on my to-do list of general maintenance.

[nogrey]

I guess it is good preventative maintenance, but I have heard far more about problems from incorrect timing belt installation than breakage. Off hand, I can not recall anyone ever posting that they actually broke their timing belt. I replaced mine at the 10 year, 100K mark and it didn't look that bad. Petcock problems, vacuum leaks, and final drive grease would be higher on my to-do list of general maintenance.

Saw a broken timing belt at Inzane 15. Not pretty.
Changing the timing belts is very simple. Results of improper timing belt changes are as catastrophic as breaking one....but only if one tries to start the engine before checking that it rotates correctly.  Not changing them because you might screw up? I guess I'd advise that one should know their limitations. Even if you screw up totally, all one has to do to check without damaging anything is to rotate the timing wheel/engine crank with a wrench to verify proper installation (I HIGHLY RECOMMEND THIS ANYWAY!). If there is an error, it is easily fixed before starting the engine. I've done so many now that it seems simple to me. Line up 3 marks, replace the belts. It's so simple a cave-man could do it! 
I've had the wheels spin out of sync during a change, helped friends who had belts off and had no idea where the wheels should go. It's all very controllable and correctable. JUST ALWAYS ROTATE THE ENGINE WITH A WRENCH AT THE CRANK BEFORE ATTEMPTING TO START IT!! IF IT STOPS BECAUSE OF VALVE CONTACT, CHECK YOUR MARKS AND CORRECT.. It really is that simple. Or, you could just ignore this whole thread. As I said, this is a public service announcement.

[wingrider02]

It doesn't seem like many Valks have had reported breaking timing belts, but the older Wings certainly do have some reports.  Being the Valk engine is an interference engine like the old Wings, it certainly is cheap insurance to change them.  Have to admit, I change the belts on the old Wings when I get them, my Dads 1500 Wing and both Valks were done due to time...not mileage.

[Cracker Jack]

Understand I'm not suggesting you do this, but I have an early 70's Mercury outboard motor which uses a timing belt to run the distributor which has never been changed. Over 45 years old. I'm not worried because if it does break, no damage will occur other than the engine just stops.

[Icelander]

So when can I come over?

[Tailgate Tommy]

Thanks for posting. More information to allow someone to make an informed decision is always good!

[Valkorado]

It's on my want to do list!  Having a belt go would be much more dreadful than hydrolock, and I had a Dan-Mark installed to minimize that possibility.

[The emperor has no clothes]

I guess it is good preventative maintenance, but I have heard far more about problems from incorrect timing belt installation than breakage. Off hand, I can not recall anyone ever posting that they actually broke their timing belt. I replaced mine at the 10 year, 100K mark and it didn't look that bad. Petcock problems, vacuum leaks, and final drive grease would be higher on my to-do list of general maintenance.

I think Kendall in Phoenix recently had one break with catastrophic results.

[nogrey]

So when can I come over?

Just let me know when you're in town and we'll "get-er done!"

[sixlow]

Thanks for the PSA, .Where have you found the best place to order your belts from ?

[Gavin_Sons]

This is on my to do list this winter, have a 97 99 and an 01 to do

[tonyfan70]

My 97 just turned over 30k. I replaced the belts this spring when I had the fork seals being replaced. Figured it was easy access and then NAPA in town had the belts in stock for under $15 each. Pretty cheap and I was curious about the old belts anyway. As it where, they looked fine and I saw no dust or other problems, but now I don't have the slightest thought about them breaking!

Why fork seals? Cuz I forgot how to correctly trailer a bike, it had been awhile since my current 2 are Hondas.

Why was my Honda on a trailer? Cuz I was too lazy and cheap to replace my OEM valvestems until the front one broke off at 60 mph.

I figured I got lucky with the valve stems not killing me, my xray vision sucks since they looked fine, and for $30 Im worry free on belts for a good long time.

[98valk]

really? u think gates wants to sell more belts?
please provide the link for 72 months.

EPA law requires anything on a vehicle the affects emissions, must last 100k miles. time does not matter in the law.
Gates fleet runner belts for hot running diesels are rated for 100k miles, fleet tests have run 250k miles with no failures. belts are exposed to all weather and road conditions.
Valkyrie belts are rated per law for 100k miles Honda requires inspection only every 100k miles. the belts are in a sealed enclosure protected from the environment and there is zero under hood heat.
these are not the belt materials and designs used in the '80s cars that only lasted 50-60k miles.
Honda warranties the bikes for 7 yrs, do you think they trust their engineering dept which provided the belt inspection interval with zero time frame?

[nogrey]

Thanks for the PSA, .Where have you found the best place to order your belts from ?

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000CRDMS8?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00

[nogrey]

really? u think gates wants to sell more belts?
please provide the link for 72 months.

EPA law requires anything on a vehicle the affects emissions, must last 100k miles. time does not matter in the law.
Gates fleet runner belts for hot running diesels are rated for 100k miles, fleet tests have run 250k miles with no failures. belts are exposed to all weather and road conditions.
Valkyrie belts are rated per law for 100k miles Honda requires inspection only every 100k miles. the belts are in a sealed enclosure protected from the environment and there is zero under hood heat.
these are not the belt materials and designs used in the '80s cars that only lasted 50-60k miles.
Honda warranties the bikes for 7 yrs, do you think they trust their engineering dept which provided the belt inspection interval with zero time frame?

Dude! Chill! You're so smart, look it up for yourself!  
And by all means, don't change your belts. Cant help some people.

[98valk]

really? u think gates wants to sell more belts?
please provide the link for 72 months.

EPA law requires anything on a vehicle the affects emissions, must last 100k miles. time does not matter in the law.
Gates fleet runner belts for hot running diesels are rated for 100k miles, fleet tests have run 250k miles with no failures. belts are exposed to all weather and road conditions.
Valkyrie belts are rated per law for 100k miles Honda requires inspection only every 100k miles. the belts are in a sealed enclosure protected from the environment and there is zero under hood heat.
these are not the belt materials and designs used in the '80s cars that only lasted 50-60k miles.
Honda warranties the bikes for 7 yrs, do you think they trust their engineering dept which provided the belt inspection interval with zero time frame?

Dude! Chill! You're so smart, look it up for yourself!  
And by all means, don't change your belts. Cant help some people.

your the one who made the statement, so provide the link. and also provide the gates link which states that the OEM belts designed by honda do not last 100k miles or more as honda indicates they do in compliance with EPA law? if u find it, gates will be open for a lawsuit by honda. or maybe they are just saying gates belts don't meet the OEM spec for 100k+ miles? maybe they just want to sell belts to the smart people like me?
I will chill when people stop posting inaccurate info, like change your synthetic oil every 2-3k miles. 
or maybe I will just stay off this board from now on.

[John Schmidt]

Thanks for the PSA, .Where have you found the best place to order your belts from ?

Rockauto.com, $13.23 each.

http://www.rockauto.com/

As one old Wing mechanic once told me.....the belts are supposed to last the life of your engine. You break a belt, that's the life of your engine.   

[The emperor has no clothes]

really? u think gates wants to sell more belts?
please provide the link for 72 months.

EPA law requires anything on a vehicle the affects emissions, must last 100k miles. time does not matter in the law.
Gates fleet runner belts for hot running diesels are rated for 100k miles, fleet tests have run 250k miles with no failures. belts are exposed to all weather and road conditions.
Valkyrie belts are rated per law for 100k miles Honda requires inspection only every 100k miles. the belts are in a sealed enclosure protected from the environment and there is zero under hood heat.
these are not the belt materials and designs used in the '80s cars that only lasted 50-60k miles.
Honda warranties the bikes for 7 yrs, do you think they trust their engineering dept which provided the belt inspection interval with zero time frame?

Dude! Chill! You're so smart, look it up for yourself!  
And by all means, don't change your belts. Cant help some people.

your the one who made the statement, so provide the link. and also provide the gates link which states that the OEM belts designed by honda do not last 100k miles or more as honda indicates they do in compliance with EPA law? if u find it, gates will be open for a lawsuit by honda. or maybe they are just saying gates belts don't meet the OEM spec for 100k+ miles? maybe they just want to sell belts to the smart people like me?
I will chill when people stop posting inaccurate info, like change your synthetic oil every 2-3k miles. 
or maybe I will just stay off this board from now on.

, might want to consider decaf from now on. Thanks for the post Nogrey. 105k on my interstate. I think $30 would be some cheap peace of mind 

[slabghost]

Stick around there is a naysayer in every group. I've chased off a few from different forums. Thank you much for the PSA and I'll be ordering from rockauto tonight.

[Brian]

For what it's worth, when I went to replace a noisy idler pulley the belt outside edge had a finger like sliver protruding out. My local NAPA got me the belts, which by the way are gates. I did not want to take the chance of this belt starting to come apart, these were the OEM belts. Your money and time, your decision.

[Willow]

In fairness, CA is an excellent mechanic and he knows very well the ins and outs of the Valkyrie engine. 

In my opinion , Nogrey has stated what can be a good thing to do but has overstated a bit the urgency making it sound like destruction is imminent.

There are no legitimate reports of timing belt failure that would have been avoided by timing belt replacement.  There is the one incident of the timing belt giving way, but the good mechanics who looked at that belt indicated there was something else that went wrong within there that resulted in tearing that belt.  Perhaps Nogrey's warning should have said it's a good thing to change your timing belts and check or replace your pulleys in there.

I replaced the belts on my Standard at 145 thousand miles.  They looked fine but I was in there already and it was only a few dollars to start over brand new.

It's a good thing to replace some old belts but a rider doesn't at this time with the one report we've had need to be alarmed that if he doesn't replace the belts right now he is setting himself up for a sure failure in the near future. 

[Ricky-D]

Listen to CA, I don't understand why some would think he'll relay faulty information that could end up

harming your Valkyrie. And let me throw in my 2 cents worth.  It has be reported in the past when the

conversation is about the timing belts in some postings, that the Valkyrie timing belts are exposed to the

absolutely LEAST amount of tension and force transmission during their use. These belts see no real

stress when compared to any other application in any other type of vehicle. Lastly, I cannot recall ever

seeing a posting regarding broken timing belts on this forum. I have seen some reports regarding worn out

tensioners that result from do it yourself mechanics that think they need to tighten up the tension on the belts.

***

[nogrey]

In fairness, CA is an excellent mechanic and he knows very well the ins and outs of the Valkyrie engine.  

In my opinion , Nogrey has stated what can be a good thing to do but has overstated a bit the urgency making it sound like destruction is imminent.

There are no legitimate reports of timing belt failure that would have been avoided by timing belt replacement.  There is the one incident of the timing belt giving way, but the good mechanics who looked at that belt indicated there was something else that went wrong within there that resulted in tearing that belt.  Perhaps Nogrey's warning should have said it's a good thing to change your timing belts and check or replace your pulleys in there.

I replaced the belts on my Standard at 145 thousand miles.  They looked fine but I was in there already and it was only a few dollars to start over brand new.

It's a good thing to replace some old belts but a rider doesn't at this time with the one report we've had need to be alarmed that if he doesn't replace the belts right now he is setting himself up for a sure failure in the near future.  

I trust that CA is a good mechanic if you say so Willow. I don't really know, and I'm not the one making accusations here. And again, we're talking age here, not miles. The fact that you got away with 145K on your bike is anecdotal and irrelevant, and has nothing whatsoever to do with responsible maintenance.
I'll admit,  I was a bit put off by CA's somewhat hostile attack on what was intended to be a helpful information. Gates, in fact does state that replacement of their belts should be done on 72 month intervals or what the vehicle man. suggests in mileage, whichever comes first. This information can be readily found on their website. A simple google search will verify that. I am somewhat surprised by CA's list of "facts", however, which refer to high temperature diesel belts tested over miles, not years. This is an apples to watermelons comparison. I am also surprised that he is apparently unaware of the fact that rubber based products do have a lifespan measured in years, aside from miles. Check out any tire manufacturers warranty. 6 years irrespective of how low the miles are. Again, I was simply stating manufacturers facts, and what could happen if a belt were to break. My intent was not to misinform or mislead. I believe that OEM's have more at stake than just profit when they make these determinations. As for Honda's engineers, well, aren't they the ones that came up with the plastic valve stems?
Anyway, wasn't trying in any way shape or form to start a war of words, but it seems that no matter what some will do to try to help, there will always be others who feel the need to put them, and their good will "in their place". Despite this fact, I believe that most on this board appreciate good information and I will continue to provide information that I feel pertinent to the safe maintenance of my Valkyries, despite the nay-sayers.
One more thing: CA, if you're reading this, perhaps you'd care to check your "facts" regarding EPA law: http://www.epa.gov/obd/pubs/420f09048.pdf

Willow: I have changed the initial topic title so as not to overstated the urgency of the matter. I'm not being a smart-ass here, I respect that it did make the topic seem more urgent than it really is.

[nogrey]

Listen to CA, I don't understand why some would think he'll relay faulty information that could end up

harming your Valkyrie. And let me throw in my 2 cents worth.  It has be reported in the past when the

conversation is about the timing belts in some postings, that the Valkyrie timing belts are exposed to the

absolutely LEAST amount of tension and force transmission during their use. These belts see no real

stress when compared to any other application in any other type of vehicle. Lastly, I cannot recall ever

seeing a posting regarding broken timing belts on this forum. I have seen some reports regarding worn out

tensioners that result from do it yourself mechanics that think they need to tighten up the tension on the belts.

***

Faulty information? Really? What did I say that was faulty? 72 months? Again, google it and find out for yourself. Broken belts will cause extensive damage? Perhaps you know something different?
I am simply blown away by my attempt to inform with facts and the negative correspondence by those who for whatever reason, feel the need to argue. Simply for the sake of arguing it seems.
Don't change your belts, or your tires, or valve stems. Shoot, don't do any maintenance! I really couldn't care less. What's with all the negativism anyway?
Still, I refuse to let the few negative people on this board dissuade me from attempting to help all the others who care about the safety and correct maintenance of their machines.

[R J]

Here is a link to get your belts from and any other parts needed.    Generic parts.

http://www.jkozloski.com/generic_parts.htm

[98valk]

[/quote]
 As for Honda's engineers, well, aren't they the ones that came up with the plastic valve stems?

One more thing: CA, if you're reading this, perhaps you'd care to check your "facts" regarding EPA law: http://www.epa.gov/obd/pubs/420f09048.pdf

[/quote]

honda does not install plastic valve stems. they are EPDM material. same valve stems used on goldwings for yrs. The problem as I've stated many times before is the EPDM deteriorates when it comes in contact with petroleum distillates. PD is in almost in every, car wash liquid, polish and wheel polish out there. EPDM was mandated yrs ago by DOT for valve stems and must last 60-80k miles (I might be off on the miles) without failure. my old posts on this might be around.

About the EPA 100k requirement. I was wrong and right, been awhile since I read it all.  EPA requires 100k for certain low emission vehicles and certain diesel vehicles. It was state Lemon Laws that required no maintenance/repairs of new vehicles for 100k miles. so most OEMs rated their timing belts at 105k and emissions to 100k. some OEMs actually did recalls, basically a letter which I got for my '99 dakota extending emissions to 100k.

now back to gates, they want to sell belts/products, using marketing scare tactics.
below ignores the EPA mandated 80k miles and completely ignores that all OEM upped everything to 105k to met the lemon laws.
" To avoid costly engine repairs, follow the auto manufacturers’ mileage replacement recommendations or we recommend timing belt replacement at around 60,000 miles. - See more at: http://www.gates.com/products/automotive/passenger-car-and-light-truck/timing-system/automotive-timing-belts#sthash.LMEsGQrg.dpuf"

see their timing belt catalog they are all over the place. when it calls for 105-110k the add a severe duty at 60k, never seen that in any auto manual.

[nogrey]

Unbelievable! No point to this. I'll leave it to the reader to decide.

[98valk]

Unbelievable! No point to this. I'll leave it to the reader to decide.

facts are unbelievable sometimes. 
u still haven't posted the gates link although I have posted the gates like that states 60k change out.  so which gates site is correct?
But of course the honda engineers didn't know what they were doing while designing an engine that lasts over 500k miles and only requires oil changes every 8k miles. Oh, wait lots of engine oil companies tell u to change oil every 3k miles, again they know more than the oems. The oems tell the oil companies how to make their oils so their engines can go 8-10k miles btwn oil changes and the oil companies comply. read some trade magazines like http://www.lubesngreases.com/
 Now that is unbelievable!

[nogrey]

Really, the question is: Do you feel more comfortable knowing that the belts in your 18+ year old bike are unquestionably sound? Or would you just rather let them sit and wonder? It's not a matter of who's right or wrong, it's a question of sound mechanical maintenance. The honda shop manual makes no mention of a timeframe, just mileage. That's where my original question came from, and thus the research. I'm not really sure why there's even a question here. It's as though someone thinks I'm trying to sell something or spread mis-information. Well, fine, as far as I'm concerned, you can only reason with some and others will always be negative no matter how you try to help them.  We've all been through nearly every other piece of rubber on the bikes. It gets old, brittle, cracked, etc.
I'm not sure why anyone would balk at doing preventive maintenance. I've spent the last 32 years of my life making a living at it. Sometimes it makes the difference between participating, or just standing on the side of the road wishing.
Happy riding!

[Pappy!]

Am thinking that maybe if I bought an OEM Honda belt I would adhere to the Honda recommendation.
Buying a Gates belt that may fit applications other than the Valkyrie, I may adhere to Gates recommendation. Gates may know something about the physical make-up of this particular belt that they feel that a recommendation other than OEM may be in order.
Just a thought!

[Cracker Jack]

General Motors says use only GM replacement parts. Just sayin'.

[Icelander]

Here's my thought on the matter:

I've got a bike that is 16 years old and I have no record of the belt ever being replaced since the PO passed away and the widow didn't know where the documentation (if any) was kept.

It's worth the $30 to know that what I've got in there is good. It will also be worth the $30 in education alone. CA may be right. Personally I'd rather know the history of critical parts like the belts. It's peace of mind.

Nogrey: Thank you for your post. If nothing else, it's a good reminder to look into this area of my bike that always nags at the back of my mind. I don't see anything as false in your statement, I see it only as cautionary.

Icelander

[R J]

I have 3 sets of belts hanging in the shop at my son's business.

You cannot tell the difference in them.        Only thing is, one says Honda, & 2 says Gates.   I changed them every 60K.     The last set on MGM was put on at 240K.

It came out of a parts store.   NAPA to be exact.

Same feel, same flex, same length, same color same markings & etc.

[98valk]

I have a copy of a '89 Goldwing european service manual. Interesting that the maintenance schedule provides no schedule for timing belt inspection or inspection.
However in chapter seven pg 7-4,  it does provide an exploded view on inspecting the timing belt for wear.

[gordonv]

I have a copy of a '89 Goldwing european service manual. Interesting that the maintenance schedule provides no schedule for timing belt inspection or inspection.
However in chapter seven pg 7-4,  it does provide an exploded view on inspecting the timing belt for wear.

But this was only the 2nd year of the GL1500, and things most likely have changed a little since then and the Valk coming out. There is also a lot more empirical data available now.

note: changed my 88' GW last year, at 61K miles and 26 years old. No record of being done before then.

[Tfrank59]

I bought the gates belts – went to their website I think I got the stock number from somebody's post on this forum – $17 each (The belts I took off looked fine, and the Gates belts look identical).  The job took me less than two hours and I really took my time.  My bike is 17 years old, at the time it only had about 35K, but it just seem like changing such a critical item (belts are a maintenance item) would be a sensible thing to do, if for nothing else just the peace of mind.

[98valk]

I have a copy of a '89 Goldwing european service manual. Interesting that the maintenance schedule provides no schedule for timing belt inspection or inspection.
However in chapter seven pg 7-4,  it does provide an exploded view on inspecting the timing belt for wear.

But this was only the 2nd year of the GL1500, and things most likely have changed a little since then and the Valk coming out. There is also a lot more empirical data available now.

note: changed my 88' GW last year, at 61K miles and 26 years old. No record of being done before then.

agree but the main point is the drawing showing where to look for wear, it shows three points. it shows to look for wear on one side of the rounded belt tooth, much more detailed than the valkyrie service manual. this is why I bring it up. maybe someone has a newer GW manual to check?

[gordonv]

I have an unknown GW PDF. Also a have a 94' GW PDF. Both have the following. Along with a picture showing nice rounded teeth.

Check the belts for swelling caused by oil contamination.
Replace the belts if the material is cracked, teeth are
worn, or if swelling is evident.
Inspect the belt tensioners for free movement and
smooth bearings.
Check the tensioner spring for fatigue or damage.
Inspect the belt plies for separation.

[98valk]

Am thinking that maybe if I bought an OEM Honda belt I would adhere to the Honda recommendation.
Buying a Gates belt that may fit applications other than the Valkyrie, I may adhere to Gates recommendation. Gates may know something about the physical make-up of this particular belt that they feel that a recommendation other than OEM may be in order.
Just a thought!

According to the Goldwing sites gates makes the OEM honda belts. 
your last comment is not valid. Gates always states their products meet or exceed OEM specifications. So as I posted, all of their belts must last 100k miles to meet the laws. so u think they might say otherwise to an unsuspecting public to sell products?
Case in point, I had a '95 Subaru, timing belt listed and from factory rated 60k miles. same engine/car but a '96 has belted rated 105k miles per OEM. guess which replacement belt I bought and the 105k was $5 cheaper.