Beating a dead horse..I know but...

[AdrianR]

boy do the stock tires SUCK!!!!!!!!!!

I have almost 3k on the bike now...and I've noticed how the bike doesn't handle quite as well when I first got it...

An inspection of the rear tire shows it's already lost enough of it's radius to hinder smooth transitions....Mike old bike with it's Metzlers had none of these problems man....

Honda should be ashamed of themselves for equipping a bike with such crap tires with no real course to get new ones of better quality that fit...

[_Sheffjs_]

boy do the stock tires SUCK!!!!!!!!!!

I have almost 3k on the bike now...and I've noticed how the bike doesn't handle quite as well when I first got it...

An inspection of the rear tire shows it's already lost enough of it's radius to hinder smooth transitions....Mike old bike with it's Metzlers had none of these problems man....

Honda should be ashamed of themselves for equipping a bike with such crap tires with no real course to get new ones of better quality that fit...

You should spell that $#*+

[goldstar903]

Adrian, dude! Complaining about it won't change a damn thing. Bring it back to the dealer and have a discussion. Maybe you have a blem? I just took a round trip (400 mi.) to Tahoe and back, all back roads. We pushed really hard, going through 5 re-pavement (wet, sand, gravel and plant mix) construction zones. The tires worked great with nary a slip. So I don't get your tire malfunction.
As for your "beating a dead horse," I will be reporting you to the ASPCA!  

[dinosnake]

It's...not a dead horse.  Everyone just has to understand what they are dealing with.

The stock Dunlops have a very 'triangulated' profile; this profile increases handling lightness and speed of reaction.  The best way to think about it is that the tires are on a bit of a "tiptoe", using a smaller contact patch to rotate around such at a faster rate.  The negative is tire wear: as the 'tiptoe' of the peaked center wears down, the wear as a greater effect on handling and tread life.  You are perceptive enough to notice the change in handling: as the tire becomes more rounded, the steering speed will slow down and effort increase.

This is expected with triangulated-profile tires, and common on all bikes that use the profile (and there are many, please don't think otherwise).  Supersports commonly use triangulated profile tires...and that's why, in reviews, they mention frequent tire changes, they are all too common for that breed.

The only thing you can do is watch the tire pressure.  Remember that recommended pressure is a guideline - if you are personally heavy, raise your starting pressures.  If you are hitting the curves hard, try lowering from whatever pressure you decided upon by a few pounds, it will bring more rubber in contact with the roadway.

[AdrianR]

Yup I noticed the profile as well...I would FAR prefer a heavier steering tire...that is STABLE...sticks...and lasts longer..

I also might add that I do watch the tires pressures very closely...this bike with these tires seems to be extremely sensitive to this....

Who knows, unless some other tires become available within a reasonable amount of time....I'm going to sell it and get something else...

All the smooth power in the world means nothing with crappy handling...or having to buy tires every 3k miles and WAIT for them because Honda signed some stupid deal with Dunlop...

[dinosnake]

You're only getting 3k miles out of a set of tires?!  You sound like you are loading her up a bit,  maybe raise the pressure.  3k is indeed ridiculous.

[14ValkyriePilot]

If you're having handling issues I would seriously see your dealer. I've got just over 3k on mine and spent the first half of today running twisty roads without issue. Then, I got caught in the hardest rain that I've ever ridden in with pooling and spraying and never missed a beat (I did find however that once I couldn't see anything, I was in trouble).

Or you could always go darkside, buy a hairless cat and some Lennon glasses and ride with those perverts.   ->

Seriously, though, if your having stability issues I would see a dealer immediately. It would suck to have a loose rear suspension/drive component fail while you're waiting for new tires to be developed.

[Robert]

What tire pressure are you running? I used to run my old Valk at around 44 the new one I run at around 42 to 43 I have 2500 on mine and the tire looks even and good all around. I didn't like the lower pressures of the OEM recommendation.

[NCGhostrider]

This reminds me of the tire threads in the early days of the gl1500 Valkyrie.  A lot of us wore out our stock dunlop tires at 2500 to 3000 miles.   Many of us went to Metzlers and Avons as a result. 

That has been a few years ago...

Craig
Ncghostrider
99 I/S

[ledany]

I've already said that I hate my Dunlop OEM rear tire because it's so slippery but there's no urge to change it, with 24,000 km/15,000 miles today.



Motorrad has given the results for his road tires test 2015 and it goes like this :

Road/Road after 4000 km/Rain/ longevity/Total points/Ranking

[maddoggie501]

Wow ledany.  My rear tire looks like yours and I have about 4500 miles on it.  I;ve been running stock tire pressures and due to some recent sliding, I have reduced pressures 3 or 4 lbs respectively.  I don't want to start a debate here about handling or tires, but I can honestly say My 2008 BMW K1200GT would handle turns like a crotch rocket and never did I worry about traction.  It didn't have the torque of the Valkyrie, but it was double digit speed fast.  I accept the Valkyrie for what it is, and don't consider mine a well handling motorcycle.  It will however, probably do better than most american cruisers in the twisties.  However, I know its parameters and do not try to take on my buddies BMW R1200RT in the twisties.  Despite what I said, I do like the bike and find that I see more with relaxed driving.

[ledany]

 

I had a 2008 K1200 GT too, rode 110,000 km/70,000 mls, I loved it.  With the Metzeler Z6, it was also uneasy to speed up on wet roads.
I like the Valkyrie too  but I know i have to be careful if I plan to travel long distances in winter time and scrutinize the weather forecast 

With the K1200 GT, I could go to my favorite ski resort in Switzerland and park the bike whenever the icy snow was to dangerous.
And with the KTM 990 SMT 2013 or the R1200 GS 2014 I could travel anytime anywhere, no matter what the road conditions were (night time, rain, cold). I may be too lazy for that now ?   :cool smiley:

Did I say I regret the heated grips ? 

[maddoggie501]

ledany, I will probably put on the Pilot road 4's in the future.  The problem with the Valk stock front tire, as we all know,is the unique size.  The Pilot Road 4's front tire is a little taller and a little narrower.  I would hate to use the Dunlops again.  I think the Pilot Roads were a great tire on The BMW K1200GT.

[st2sam]

  The problem with the Valk stock front tire, as we all know,is the unique size.  The Pilot Road 4's front tire is a little taller and a little narrower. 

??
Pilot Road 1 2 3 or 4's in a 19in. front??
??
If you find a Pilot Road whatever number, 19-inches in diameter, please post a link.

[dinosnake]

Hmm, time to do a little research

www.hdforums.com/forum/touring-models/565546-another-tire-question-19-this-time.html

Reply #10 may be worth keeping in mind.  There are several 120/70-R19 choices for V-Rod fronts, for those willing to try one - Bridgestone Exedras, Michelin Commander II's and Avon Cobra II's.  It looks like the Commander II's might be the best choice as they are 60 load rated - 531 pounds, heavy cruiser-ready - but also Z-speed rated. The speed rating is why Honda has a limiter on the Valkyrie, the stock Dunlops are only H-rated.

[AdrianR]

Hmm, time to do a little research

[The speed rating is why Honda has a limiter on the Valkyrie, the stock Dunlops are only H-rated.

Again, another lame brained idea...Honda really screwed the pouch on this one...I may sell my Valkyrie and get a Triumph Rocket 3....  Bike gets killer reviews, is reasonably priced, and I LIKE the beefy rubber on that baby...not to mention quite a few tire options....

The thing that irritates me the most is my own ignorance... I didn't even THINK of this possibility...that is crappy tires with no real viable option but to hope that someone makes them...and in the meantime suffer through that crappy exclusivity deal Honda created with Dunlop just to get the same crap all over again..not cool at all....

[Robert]

Michelin Pilot Road 4 Trail Tires

The Michelin Pilot Road 4 tires represent the latest iteration and next generation of Pilot Road evolution. Designed to deliver maximum safety in most conditions especially on wet roads and in particular when braking, Michelin's goal is to cover all riders in all conditions. Touting both enhanced safety and extended tire life, the Pilot Road 4 tires are a tangible illustration of Michelin’s Total Performance strategy of constantly and simultaneously improving tire performance characteristics across the range.

The Pilot Road 4 tires will be available in three versions, the standard PR4, PR4 Trail for enduro and ADV bikes that are primarily ridden on-road and the PR4 GT for heavier, touring bikes. The Pilot Road 4 GT tires are already the OEM choice for the new BMW R1200RT.

Superior wet-weather performance

 Michelin Pilot Road 4 tires stop shorter in the wet vs. the leading competitive sport touring tires and Michelin Pilot Road 3

Longest tread life in its class
 Up to 20% longer tread life than Michelin Pilot Road 3 tires

Dependable grip even in challenging conditions

    2 Compound Technology with all new silica-charged rubber compounds for excellent grip from 23°F to 113°F
    New XST+ siping and enhanced tread patterns for optimum grip at all lean angles

Three separate versions available

    Pilot Road 4 for all-around sport touring use
    Pilot Road 4 GT has a stiffer casing with a patented new technology for motorcycle tires that delivers the stability you need for heavier GT-class bikes while riding solo, two-up or with luggage, and the comfort you desire
    Pilot Road 4 Trail for adventure touring bikes ridden exclusively on the road

WIDTH HEIGHT DIAMETER LOAD INDEX SPEED INDEX TL / TT VERSION

110 80 R 19 59 V TL Trail

120 70 R 19 60 V TL Trail

http://www.revzilla.com/motorcycle/michelin-pilot-road-4-trail-tires

[dinosnake]

Again, another lame brained idea...Honda really screwed the pouch on this one...I may sell my Valkyrie and get a Triumph Rocket 3....  Bike gets killer reviews, is reasonably priced, and I LIKE the beefy rubber on that baby...not to mention quite a few tire options....

The thing that irritates me the most is my own ignorance... I didn't even THINK of this possibility...that is crappy tires4 with no real viable option but to hope that someone makes them...and in the meantime suffer through that crappy exclusivity deal Honda created with Dunlop just to get the same crap all over again..not cool at all....

I think that might be jumping the gun a bit, let's wait to see average tire life and not just extreme.  I think, under average use, we should expect average life out of them.  If not , then we'll raise he!!

[AdrianR]

Again, another lame brained idea...Honda really screwed the pouch on this one...I may sell my Valkyrie and get a Triumph Rocket 3....  Bike gets killer reviews, is reasonably priced, and I LIKE the beefy rubber on that baby...not to mention quite a few tire options....

The thing that irritates me the most is my own ignorance... I didn't even THINK of this possibility...that is crappy tires4 with no real viable option but to hope that someone makes them...and in the meantime suffer through that crappy exclusivity deal Honda created with Dunlop just to get the same crap all over again..not cool at all....

I think that might be jumping the gun a bit, let's wait to see average tire life and not just extreme.  I think, under average use, we should expect average life out of them.  If not , then we'll raise he!!

Dude..I hear ya...I'm just pissed...The rest of the bike is awesome...well aside from that brick hard seat...but tires are just SO important...and I could care about the stock ones...it's just that there are no alternatives...That is what chaffs me arse!   My old bike's stock Bridgestones were kinda crappy too...but once I put a set of Metzlers on her...WOW what a difference...It's just a good GD shame that we have not that avenue!

[st2sam]

Hmm, time to do a little research

www.hdforums.com/forum/touring-models/565546-another-tire-question-19-this-time.html

Reply #10 may be worth keeping in mind.  There are several 120/70-R19 choices for V-Rod fronts, for those willing to try one - Bridgestone Exedras, Michelin Commander II's and Avon Cobra II's.  It looks like the Commander II's might be the best choice as they are 60 load rated - 531 pounds, heavy cruiser-ready - but also Z-speed rated. The speed rating is why Honda has a limiter on the Valkyrie, the stock Dunlops are only H-rated.

I'm running the Michelin Commander II's on my Valk now, 120/70 R19, yep a radial.
If  remember correctly, when I checked the max load difference it was only about 16lbs..
So far so good. I have a Pilot Road II waiting to be installed on the rear when the stock rear POS wears out.
My next front will be the Pilot Road 4 Trail but only if the max load rating is close.

[AdrianR]

So I have done some more research and even if you elect to go to a 120/70-19..you can not find a matching rear tire that you would need! (180/55r-17)...

WTF???

We need to call Honda and ask them WTF!!

[Robert]

So I have done some more research and even if you elect to go to a 120/70-19..you can not find a matching rear tire that you would need! (180/55r-17)...

WTF???

We need to call Honda and ask them WTF!!

I already have a Micheline pilot 4GT I bought for the rear and when the front is gone I will probably do the pilot 4 trail not perfect but I think it will be pretty close. I really wouldn't get too upset I don't think the difference will be noticeable and it may wind up being exactly what you wanted. I hear they are excellent in the rain.

[st2sam]

I already have a Micheline pilot 4GT I bought for the rear and when the front is gone I will probably do the pilot 4 trail not perfect but I think it will be pretty close. I really wouldn't get too upset I don't think the difference will be noticeable and it may wind up being exactly what you wanted. I hear they are excellent in the rain.

 
Robert you'll be on the right track tires.
If nothing changes when my Commander II's & Road II's wear out that's the route I'll take.

Let me see if I can find the max load rating for the "4" Trail 120/70 R19 front tire.
Stock Dunlop = 567 lbs.
Commander II = 551 lbs.
Pilot "4" Trail = Load index 60  (same as Commander, can't find rating in lbs..)

IMO the "load rating" is very important for a very heavy bike like the Valk, even more so when riding hard in the twisties.

[dans2014]

  Only one tire I trust on any vehicle, Michelin!! Best tire period in all categories be it motorhomes or motorcycles. Better gas mileage, softer ride and quiet. The big decision is if you want to pay Michelin prices!

[dinosnake]

Let me see if I can find the max load rating for the "4" Trail 120/70 R19 front tire.
Stock Dunlop = 567 lbs.
Commander II = 551 lbs.
Pilot "4" Trail = Load index 60  (same as Commander, can't find rating in lbs..)

IMO the "load rating" is very important for a very heavy bike like the Valk, even more so when riding hard in the twisties.

http://www.webbikeworld.com/Motorcycle-tires/tire-data.htm

(edit)

BTW, just looked at the Bridgestone Exedras

http://www.bridgestone.com/products/motorcycle_tires/products/exedra/max.html

and the 120/70ZR19 load index is the same 60 as both Michelins, 531 pounds.  So you've got at least 3 different, known and good options if you want to try the alternate size.

[st2sam]

Let me see if I can find the max load rating for the "4" Trail 120/70 R19 front tire.
Stock Dunlop = 567 lbs.
Commander II = 551 lbs.
Pilot "4" Trail = Load index 60  (same as Commander, can't find rating in lbs..)

IMO the "load rating" is very important for a very heavy bike like the Valk, even more so when riding hard in the twisties.

and the 120/70ZR19 load index is the same 60 as both Michelins, 531 pounds.  So you've got at least 3 different, known and good options if you want to try the alternate size.

On the Commander II sidewall it reads 551 lbs. max weight, on the Stock Dunlop sidewall reads, max load 567 lbs., only a 16 lb. difference.
Your saying the Bridgestones max rating is 531 lbs., that's quite a difference, 36 lbs..
Too big of a difference? Are you more likely to have a tire failure?  For instance, sidewall if you hit a big pothole etc..
Anyone on this board work for a tire company? 

[dinosnake]

On the Commander II sidewall it reads 551 lbs. max weight, on the Stock Dunlop sidewall reads, max load 567 lbs., only a 16 lb. difference.
Your saying the Bridgestones max rating is 531 lbs., that's quite a difference, 36 lbs..
Too big of a difference? Are you more likely to have a tire failure?  For instance, sidewall if you hit a big pothole etc..
Anyone on this board work for a tire company? 

All 3 tires are in the same rated load class: "60".  I guess the difference is nominal versus claimed / measured; consider them all equal as "60" is apparently the minimum that Honda deems worthy for the bike.

[ledany]

I think I'll get a Michelin PR4 on the rear tomorrow. The factory says it is not available for the F6C because they don't have this tire for the front wheel. Yes, I have a Dunlop 408F on the front but I doubt it matters. This PR4 is the OEM tire on the new R 1200 RT, I guess it'll do on mine. 


The Michelin PR4 180/55/ ZR17 GT R is sold 180 $ in Paris.

[st2sam]

On the Commander II sidewall it reads 551 lbs. max weight, on the Stock Dunlop sidewall reads, max load 567 lbs., only a 16 lb. difference.
Your saying the Bridgestones max rating is 531 lbs., that's quite a difference, 36 lbs..
Too big of a difference? Are you more likely to have a tire failure?  For instance, sidewall if you hit a big pothole etc..
Anyone on this board work for a tire company? 

All 3 tires are in the same rated load class: "60".  I guess the difference is nominal versus claimed / measured; consider them all equal as "60" is apparently the minimum that Honda deems worthy for the bike.

Dino you might be right, BUT the rating for the OEM front Dunlop is a "61"...
Just curious, where did you read (hear) Honda deems a "60" is worthy?

[maddoggie501]

st2sam,   sorry I should have clarified my post about putting Michelin Pilot Road 4's on the valkyrie.   I would have to put the Pilot Road 4 (Trail) on the front.  120/70R - 19.   I would use the Michelin Pilot Road 4 (GT) on the rear.  180/55-ZR17.  They have 3 models of Pilot Roads.  The regular Pilot Road, the GT, and the Trail.  They all look the same to me, with some differences.

[Fla. Jim]

....
[/quote]

I think that might be jumping the gun a bit, let's wait to see average tire life and not just extreme.  I think, under average use, we should expect average life out of them.  If not , then we'll raise he!!
[/quote]

Now that's a funny statement right there. Now just who are you going to raise hell with? Honda as with the original 97 Valk made the decision to put only "One" available special made crappy manufactures tire available. Nothing new, they obviously get a kickback of some form. And you can raise all the hell you want with whomever. self righteous indignation feels good, but usually gets you shown the door. What you can do is experiment with different type and size tires and or wait till other tire manufactures make the proper weird size for your ride. Raise hell indeed. Laughable it is, and immature.

[maddoggie501]

I understand, but for me its not how long they last.  I had crotch rockets that smoked tires in as little as 1500 miles.  I want a tire I can trust my life on at speed and in various weather conditions.  I feel I cannot trust the Dunlops in rain, since I spun up the rear tire attempting to pass a car.  I was probably in 3rd gear and held the throttle steady while the bike wanted to high side me.   Eventually the tire regained traction and I was very cautious on my 400 mile ride home in the rain.     

[dinosnake]

Dino you might be right, BUT the rating for the OEM front Dunlop is a "61"...
Just curious, where did you read (hear) Honda deems a "60" is worthy?

I read it in an online discussion, as my bike is kept in a somewhat distant parking area so I haven't gotten down on the ground to read the sidewalls.  And that's what I get for believing the internet!    Just researched, yep, "61".  The difference between the ratings is (only, I feel) 36 pounds so YMMV and it's up to you if anyone tries the switch.  The difference between the Commander II and the Dunlop is therefore only 16 pounds - meaningless, really, that's a load in a saddlebag difference or maybe 2 PSI higher inflation?

[dinosnake]

Now that's a funny statement right there. Now just who are you going to raise hell with? Honda as with the original 97 Valk made the decision to put only "One" available special made crappy manufactures tire available. Nothing new, they obviously get a kickback of some form. And you can raise all the hell you want with whomever. self righteous indignation feels good, but usually gets you shown the door. What you can do is experiment with different type and size tires and or wait till other tire manufactures make the proper weird size for your ride. Raise hell indeed. Laughable it is, and immature.

Indeed, laughable that you insult so very easily.  Should we dismiss you from the conversation and ask you to sit in the corner until the adults are finished?

We can start petitions.  Contact and pressure competitive companies to make alternate choices.  Contact motorcycle media concerns and have them address the issue to Honda representatives and ask for reasonable explanations to owners, which in Japanese culture is embarrassing enough.  Etc., etc., etc.  If it even turns dangerous - rapid and debilitating tire wear to the point of possible control issues - we can even ask the NHTSA to open an investigation ("Firestone" anyone?)

You are not helpless...unless you are willing to fully accept that you are.

[ledany]

So I have a new Michelin PR4 rear tire now 180 55 ZR 17 GT R. I speeded up a little to see if everything's alright : 196 km/h (121 mls) and everything's OK 
We expect some rain here on sunday, we'll see 

My dealer said that HD owners are really satisfied with the Pirelli Night Dragon but the dimensions don't fit the Valk 

[AdrianR]

Indeed, laughable that you insult so very easily.  Should we dismiss you from the conversation and ask you to sit in the corner until the adults are finished?

We can start petitions.  Contact and pressure competitive companies to make alternate choices.  Contact motorcycle media concerns and have them address the issue to Honda representatives and ask for reasonable explanations to owners, which in Japanese culture is embarrassing enough.  Etc., etc., etc.  If it even turns dangerous - rapid and debilitating tire wear to the point of possible control issues - we can even ask the NHTSA to open an investigation ("Firestone" anyone?)

You are not helpless...unless you are willing to fully accept that you are.
[/quote]

Wow, outstanding, highly insightful reply..and I utterly agree...

[Fla. Jim]

Now that's a funny statement right there. Now just who are you going to raise hell with? Honda as with the original 97 Valk made the decision to put only "One" available special made crappy manufactures tire available. Nothing new, they obviously get a kickback of some form. And you can raise all the hell you want with whomever. self righteous indignation feels good, but usually gets you shown the door. What you can do is experiment with different type and size tires and or wait till other tire manufactures make the proper weird size for your ride. Raise hell indeed. Laughable it is, and immature.

Indeed, laughable that you insult so very easily.  Should we dismiss you from the conversation and ask you to sit in the corner until the adults are finished?


We can start petitions.  Contact and pressure competitive companies to make alternate choices.  Contact motorcycle media concerns and have them address the issue to Honda representatives and ask for reasonable explanations to owners, which in Japanese culture is embarrassing enough.  Etc., etc., etc.  If it even turns dangerous - rapid and debilitating tire wear to the point of possible control issues - we can even ask the NHTSA to open an investigation ("Firestone" anyone?)

You are not helpless...unless you are willing to fully accept that you are.

LoL Was just trying to tell you new guys that we have been there before you, with "exactly" the same issue. And until the volume of the demand was there, no other tire manufacture produced what we wanted....Or thought we wanted.... Even now 17 years later we as a group cannot come to a consensus on the best tire. Even though we have tried everything available. As I expect so will it be with you. These heavy  torque  monsters eat rear tires.  The right wrist movement helps control a lot of that.  And if you want a sticky front tire you are going to get less mileage, especially on these heavy, high horsepower, cruiser bikes. As we tend to drive them a bit faster than say "most" other heavy cruiser less horsepower riders. Sure some tires in the future will get you better mileage. We know we have experimented with the original Valk. We somehow worked out our problems in an adult manner. There were some whiners then also and whining got anyone/everyone nowhere. You think you really have the clout to take on Honda? Good luck with that.  It's obvious you guy's have everything well under control here. Keep up the whine guys, I'll not "insult" you again. Although it's just so humorous to see grown, supposedly grown, men beating their hairless chest in vain.    ( - =
Enjoy the ride guys you might only get to go around once.  And with that I "will" now go to my corner.

[indybobm]

Well said. Everybody has to learn!

[maddoggie501]

Let me sum up my tire requirements.  Stick like glue in all weather conditions and the hell with mileage!  I'm done, Thank you

[dinosnake]

I  am not worried, at all, about the tires for this bike.  I have (a bit) of faith that I'll get decent mileage out of the stock Dunlops (always have); but, if not, there are several options.  The 120/70-19 has the exact same outer circumference as the stock 130/60-19, using the "+1 profile" rule, so trying one of those options if needed does not seem a stretch with the Commander II's sounding like the best choice.

No touring tire truly "sticks like glue".  If you wanted 'sticks like glue' you should have picked up a chassis designed for that: a sport-tourer, one designed to hold full sport rubber in true sport sizes, like a VFR1200 or maybe the new R1200RS.  Every bike is a compromise and it is unreasonable to ask a 752 pound bike, based on a touring chassis, to perform as good as a dedicted sport tourer.  I didn't buy it for that and honor it for what it is, not what it isn't.

I hope that everyone can find a tire choice, using the secondary options mentioned, that they are happy with.  I simply believe a touch of realism is called for: it is a power cruiser on a touring chassis.  Just like the original 1500 F6C was.  Respect it for what it is and I'm sure you will find many years of riding happiness.