Sanders Doesn't Believe:

[Hooter]

  In the death penalty....what do you guys think of his stand on that?  I know how I feel about it. If you are found guilty of rape or murder, see ya.  Agree with me or not,  I love peoples perspective and reasoning on this.

[Patrick]

I don't believe in it either, in most cases.

Thats a change from what I previously thought. Now, if there is absolutely no doubt about quilt and that sentence is deserved, then I'm still for it. But, if there is any any doubt at all, then I'm against against it.

The reasoning being, I know a man that was wrongly convicted of murder and spent 50 years in max security prisons [ Sing Sing, Auburn]. When I went there one day to do one of the classes I found he was finally found innocent and released being given $7 million. [ I've had doubts about that amount]. Of course this man always said he was innocent, but, most of them do.
With our system being as it is today, I have issues with it knowing the truth doesn't always prevail.

[baldo]

I'm not a fan, either. One case that comes to mind was in Texas. From what I've read, he was innocent and Gov Perry didn't want to hear it.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/national/2014/08/03/fresh-doubts-over-a-texas-execution/



http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/executed-possibly-innocent

[John Schmidt]

I've also changed my feelings re. capital punishment. With current technology finding a number of innocent people many years later, some posthumously, I feel we simply should not take a chance on even one person's life being taken. We have a great system of justice in the U.S., but it's not perfect by any stretch.

[MP]

I think, if there is overwhelming evidence, it is ok. There are cases where there is NO DOUBT.

[Robert]

Maybe for serial killers, mass murderers even for drug lords and repeated sex offenders, drop the extended stays for non violent and small drug offenses and you may have a system that can punish those who really deserve it like some politicians.

With DNA and other evidence clearing quite a few is this good enough to say that the guilty are truly guilty by the same evidence gathering.

[Medina]

When "life in prison" finally means life, in prison, I'll be against the death penalty.

and I'm against any one promoting socialism as a way to continue with the "fundamental transformation of America" Stuff that nonsensense.

[Pete]

What might help is after all appeals and legal proceeding are complete then and only then in death penalty cases - allow the defendant to optionally use extra-ordinary means to prove innocence only.

Examples allow the defendant to submit to lie detector, truth serum, other chemical testing that would then be submitted to the court as evidence for a final determination.

Is this fool proof NO, but it should lessen the error rate.

As for an alternative to the death penalty, perhaps complete and total isolation from all other persons FOREVER could be considered if t could be accomplished.

[cookiedough]

I'm all for it ONLY if 100% positive evidence without a doubt he/she killed someone with not one shred of evidence to prove otherwise or in self defense of any kind.  Jeffrey Dahlmer comes to mind here but he got taken care of as rightfully deserved.

But like said,  even with overwhelming evidence,  the system fails putting an innocent person behind bars for way too long.  

[DK]

I used to believe in the death penalty. In fact I prosecuted two capitol felony cases years ago. The cases are very hard on everyone involved; families of the victim, witnesses, jurors, attornies and court personnell. Thereafter, everyone involved then has to wait fifteen or twenty years for the sentence to be carried out.

I am now opposed to the death penalty due to the large number of death row inmates being proven incontrovertibly innocent after long years of imprisonment due to advances in science, DNA, recanted testimony or wrongfully witheld exculpatory evidence. A dedicated group of dedicated attornies are taking these cases in an organized manner and their success rate has been astounding.

I do agree that there are those persons who deserve the death penalty because of the egregious nature of the crime. However in such cases I feel that the standard of proof required of the State to convict should be higher than " beyond a reasonable doubt" such as uncontrovertable or absolute. The proof required should be testimony of multiple eyewitnesses, DNA, valid confession, etc. establishing guilt well beyond any doubt.

Dan

[Serk]

An interesting twist to consider - Many of those who were previously on death row and have since been exonerated were only exonerated BECAUSE of the extra attention being on death row brings.

In other words, had they been "only" sentenced to life without parole, they would most likely still be rotting away in prison.

Just something else to consider in this complex equation.

[Alpha Dog]

I used to believe in the death penalty. In fact I prosecuted two capitol felony cases years ago. The cases are very hard on everyone involved; families of the victim, witnesses, jurors, attornies and court personnell. Thereafter, everyone involved then has to wait fifteen or twenty years for the sentence to be carried out.

I am now opposed to the death penalty due to the large number of death row inmates being proven incontrovertibly innocent after long years of imprisonment due to advances in science, DNA, recanted testimony or wrongfully witheld exculpatory evidence. A dedicated group of dedicated attornies are taking these cases in an organized manner and their success rate has been astounding.

I do agree that there are those persons who deserve the death penalty because of the egregious nature of the crime. However in such cases I feel that the standard of proof required of the State to convict should be higher than " beyond a reasonable doubt" such as uncontrovertable or absolute. The proof required should be testimony of multiple eyewitnesses, DNA, valid confession, etc. establishing guilt well beyond any doubt.

Dan

Hard to argue with this

[sandy]

An old friend (a lawyer) told me that the death penalty is NOT a deterrent to commit murder. It's more about vengeance for the courts and people involved with the case.

My heavens, did I just agree with Bernie. Oh the horror!!

[Jess from VA]

I'm for it.  Many people need killing, badly.  All death appeals should go to the head of the docket (first in line).  I don't believe it does not deter capital offenses, and it certainly deters the convicted offender of re-offending.  I also do not buy the old argument that if the state can kill, then it somehow diminishes the value of life, or somehow justifies private killing for a good cause.  The death penalty is certainly not a violation of the 8th Amendment (cruel and unusual).  And I believe a relatively painless execution is more humane than life in prison.

If the San Bernardino jihadis (or any of these mass shooter/killers) didn't die at apprehension, they should die by execution.

Any wrongful conviction of an innocent man is a failure of the system whether death or misdemeanor.  The number of overturned death convictions is troubling for sure, but do not forget that these men would have been sitting on life sentences in any event.

This appears excessive.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/every-man-in-iran-village-executed-on-drugs-charges-death-penalty-capital-punishment-human-rights-a6898036.html

[baldo]

On a side note, as in the case I mentioned before, if any LEO, prosecutor, judge etc is found to be suppressing evidence that would exonerate the accused, THEY should be the ones serving the time. You never see that happen, and I don't know why. Lives are essentially stolen, and no one pays for it.

Don't want to threadjack here, so carry on.

[fubar606]

so I have a question if one dosen.t believe in the death penalty  dose that mean that you would never pack a gun ?? cause then you might half to make that call all by your self .   

[Alpha Dog]

This appears excessive.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/every-man-in-iran-village-executed-on-drugs-charges-death-penalty-capital-punishment-human-rights-a6898036.html
[/quote]

Apparently they have not heard of Bernie Sanders.

[The emperor has no clothes]

On a side note, as in the case I mentioned before, if any LEO, prosecutor, judge etc is found to be suppressing evidence that would exonerate the accused, THEY should be the ones serving the time. You never see that happen, and I don't know why. Lives are essentially stolen, and no one pays for it.

Don't want to threadjack here, so carry on.

It is messed up how a prosecutor can play god and suppress evidence without any repercussions. Just a little justice here might go a long way to improving our system.
As far as agreeing with the death sentence, I'm going to side with DK over Jess. (Not that it matters any)

[Patrick]

I have issues with our current system.
Prosecutors with an agenda, in that, some want convictions at any cost to bolster their careers.
Witness harassment to alter statements.
DNA evidence being tampered with or not examined correctly.
Jury tampering and pandering incompetent judges.
Have I mentioned I think our system has some issues. It may be a very small percentage, but,,,,

[john]

sanders is bananas ... nutty as a fruitcake
this will fit in here ...

Thu, 25 Feb 2016 12:36:56 -0800
 I didn't see this coming, but it was inevitable. We have become a nation in deep decline and are governed by Muslims and Blacks. The re-election of Obama in 2012 by an ignorant, leftist free-loading majority convinced me that my country is doomed. Hillary will probably win over any conservative Republican wannabe reformer. Free sh%t is the name of the game for our youth. Trump may be a loose cannon, but we definitely, desperately NEED a political outsider. Washington is broken and our Military has been gutted. The status quo is completely useless. We Patriots are now a minority. My friends, it's time to pray!

First Muslim Women Judge Carolyn Walker, hand-picked by President Obama
 sworn in as judge of the 7 Municipal District, Brooklyn by holding the Holy Quran
 at Brooklyn Boro hall on December 10, 2015, it was a Historic Day!!

Since the Quran forbids all law but Sharia Law, I guess she will head the first Federally sanctioned Sharia Court. Kinda makes you proud, doesn't it?
 Gives me chills up my legs said Chris Mathews.

Very little media coverage on this ......Another chink in the armor, no one cares,
 until it's too late ! step by step by step….this is how our culture will end.

You Obama supporters, your dream is coming true in destroying America.
 Thanks to you Obama lovers for voting for him

[The emperor has no clothes]

You are welcome

[Moonshot_1]

sanders is bananas ... nutty as a fruitcake
this will fit in here ...

Thu, 25 Feb 2016 12:36:56 -0800
 I didn't see this coming, but it was inevitable. We have become a nation in deep decline and are governed by Muslims and Blacks. The re-election of Obama in 2012 by an ignorant, leftist free-loading majority convinced me that my country is doomed. Hillary will probably win over any conservative Republican wannabe reformer. Free sh%t is the name of the game for our youth. Trump may be a loose cannon, but we definitely, desperately NEED a political outsider. Washington is broken and our Military has been gutted. The status quo is completely useless. We Patriots are now a minority. My friends, it's time to pray!

First Muslim Women Judge Carolyn Walker, hand-picked by President Obama
 sworn in as judge of the 7 Municipal District, Brooklyn by holding the Holy Quran
 at Brooklyn Boro hall on December 10, 2015, it was a Historic Day!!

Since the Quran forbids all law but Sharia Law, I guess she will head the first Federally sanctioned Sharia Court. Kinda makes you proud, doesn't it?
 Gives me chills up my legs said Chris Mathews.

Very little media coverage on this ......Another chink in the armor, no one cares,
 until it's too late ! step by step by step….this is how our culture will end.

You Obama supporters, your dream is coming true in destroying America.
 Thanks to you Obama lovers for voting for him

I suppose with a hammer, saw, and mega amounts of hydraulic force and WD-40 it'll be a perfect fit!
How we get from the Bernie's and other's perspective of Capital Punishment directly to Muslims is a stretch to get there in one step.


As to Capital Punishment the best way I can describe my view of it is that I support it theory but oppose it in practice.

In a country that holds individual rights as sacred things, particularly the right to life, the idea that we, the State, could take someone's life by mistake, and history shows that we have, is more than problematic.

But in theory, can someone commit a crime so heinous that the person should be put to death?
Absolutely.

In practice, can the justice system make grave errors in judgement and find the innocent guilty?
Yes it does. Even when it has found the innocent guilty beyond a reasonable doubt!

So since this punishment is so absolute, with no recourse for errors in judicial judgement, nor ability for just compensation for such errors, the Death Penalty should be off the table. Possibility for some very narrow "enemy of the State" exceptions

[Willow]

I believe that when a person has been found guilty of unlawfully taking another's life this his life should be forfeit. Incidentally, found guilty in our courts means by a jury that firmly believes based upon the evidence that the charged is guilty beyond any reasonable doubt.  Forfeiting one's life in my opinion may be done by either being confined to prison without the option of parole for the remainder of one's life or by death by execution.  I would like to see us as a culture lean as much as possible to life without the possibility of parole but there are times when a person demonstrates that it is not practical for him to be kept in prison for his remaining natural life.  He can do that either by demonstrating that he is lethally dangerous to the staff of his prison or simply by the horrendous nature of his crimes.  I believe the death penalty needs to be there as an option.

I'm not sure I believe the rampant stories of an innocent man being executed.  I believe it may have happened but I believe it is very, very rare.  DNA evidence may in fact show that some of the evidence presented was not correct but that is not the same as showing that the executed person was innocent.  Courts don't find the accused innocent.  They find them guilty or not guilty.  Not guilty doesn't mean innocent.  It means the evidence presented was not enough to declare the accused guilty beyond any reasonable doubt.

I believe a properly applied death penalty is necessary.       

[MP]

so I have a question if one dosen.t believe in the death penalty  dose that mean that you would never pack a gun ?? cause then you might half to make that call all by your self .   

No. Apples and oranges.  Death penalty is a jury case, Evidence presented.  Quite often no eye witness.  After the fact, ie, cannot prevent the original murder.

Using a gun to protect oneself or others, to prevent a killing, requires you to be right there, at the time.  Whole nother ball game.

Opposing the death penalty, has NOTHING to do with one's ability, and RIGHT, to defend one's self.

[Jess from VA]

so I have a question if one dosen.t believe in the death penalty  dose that mean that you would never pack a gun ?? cause then you might half to make that call all by your self .   

No. Apples and oranges.  Death penalty is a jury case, Evidence presented.  Quite often no eye witness.  After the fact, ie, cannot prevent the original murder.

Using a gun to protect oneself or others, to prevent a killing, requires you to be right there, at the time.  Whole nother ball game.

Opposing the death penalty, has NOTHING to do with one's ability, and RIGHT, to defend one's self.

Well said Mel.  And defending oneself (and others) facing a lethal/grievous bodily harm threat, on the spot, is about stopping, not necessarily killing the perpetrator(s).  And one's principle motive in self defense is saving your (or others) lives, not taking the perpetrator's life.   

[MP]

so I have a question if one dosen.t believe in the death penalty  dose that mean that you would never pack a gun ?? cause then you might half to make that call all by your self .   

No. Apples and oranges.  Death penalty is a jury case, Evidence presented.  Quite often no eye witness.  After the fact, ie, cannot prevent the original murder.

Using a gun to protect oneself or others, to prevent a killing, requires you to be right there, at the time.  Whole nother ball game.

Opposing the death penalty, has NOTHING to do with one's ability, and RIGHT, to defend one's self.

Well said Mel.  And defending oneself (and others) facing a lethal/grievous bodily harm threat, on the spot, is about stopping, not necessarily killing the perpetrator(s).  And one's principle motive in self defense is saving your (or others) lives, not taking the perpetrator's life.   

Thanks for the add on, Jess.  Exactly right.  The two are totally unrelated.

[Jess from VA]

Just watched Ghandi again. 

I have always believed him one of the greatest men who ever lived in all of human history.

But I could never live like he lived, and turn the other cheek (beyond a certain point). 

I respect his values greatly, but lack his discipline and his courage (and his faith in humankind).

 

[Gavin_Sons]

I have very different views than most on what kind of punishment criminals should be given if proven guilty or caught red handed. so in short, yes, I'm a firm believer in the death penalty and not just by lethal injection.  This includes public hangings,  shooting squad and the same method they used to take another life. If you did something so horrible to deserve life in prison you dont deserve to live any longer. And yes i am preparing my flame suit.

[The emperor has no clothes]

I've always been in favor of the death penalty. But I think if I was on a jury I would have to be way more certain beyond the reasonable doubt. Also I think if I was in prison for a crime that I didn't commit for life, I think I would rather have the death penalty than spend the rest of my life in there. I know that's easy to say out here. Hopefully I will never be convicted of a felony .

[Rams]

My position on this has also changed, I used to be just in favor, now I'll volunteer as the guy pulling the trigger, flipping the switch, tying the knot or injecting the drugs.   

[Jess from VA]

Keep in mind.... proof beyond any (one) reasonable doubt is already a pretty high burden of proof, in any criminal proceeding.

The problem is not so much reasonable doubt...... it's that the G has nearly unlimited resources to prosecute you (a pack of experienced trial attorneys, experts, researchers, forensics, the police, maybe their own investigators, and more.  You have whatever you can afford, or a public defender.

[Gavin_Sons]

My position on this has also changed, I used to be just in favor, now I'll volunteer as the guy pulling the trigger, flipping the switch, tying the knot or injecting the drugs.   

  

[Serk]

On a side note, as in the case I mentioned before, if any LEO, prosecutor, judge etc is found to be suppressing evidence that would exonerate the accused, THEY should be the ones serving the time. You never see that happen, and I don't know why. Lives are essentially stolen, and no one pays for it.

Don't want to threadjack here, so carry on.

It doesn't happen nearly enough, and when it does it tends to be far too lenient, but there is this at least:

http://www.statesman.com/news/news/ken-anderson-to-serve-10-days-in-jail/nbmsH/

[Jess from VA]

If a prosecutor is shown to have withheld any exculpatory evidence he should be reported to his state licensing authority and lose his license to practice law (job).  And that exculpatory evidence could be relevant to sentence and/or findings of guilt.  Now if the evidence would in no way change the verdict, punishment might be less.  (ie 5 eyewitnesses in broad daylight saw you use your pistol on the deceased, but they withheld an inconsistency/error with their ballistics testing.)

When I did this work in the USAF, defense got a complete copy of the prosecution's file; with very few exceptions (like old records of a juvenile conviction which is inadmissible in a prosecution case in chief).  No individual work product (your own notes and work), but all the evidence, and a list of witnesses that will/might be called.

Prosecutors have an absolute duty to see justice done and play by all the rules, as well as get convictions.  They get their own special section in the Rules for Professional Conduct (ethics).
http://www.americanbar.org/groups/professional_responsibility/publications/model_rules_of_professional_conduct/rule_3_8_special_responsibilities_of_a_prosecutor.html

And like in Serk's article, if you are caught at this, it may result in a careful review of every case you ever prosecuted (a huge job) (and taxpayer expense).

[DK]

During my time as a State Prosecutor, I allowed defense attornies to examine and copy and sign a receipt of my case file as Jess did in the Air Force. Also, as he did, I kept my work product in a separate file.

I also refused to file a number of cases in spite of Police pressure to charge. I still sleep well at night.

Dan

[..]

Has the threat of death stopped anyone from committing the crime?

[BF]

Has the threat of death stopped anyone from committing the crime?

I don't believe that it serves as a deterrent, but as a very handy dandy means of vengeance. 

I truly believe that there are those that don't deserve to breath the same air as the rest of us. 

[The emperor has no clothes]

Has the threat of death stopped anyone from committing the crime?

I don't believe that it serves as a deterrent, but as a very handy dandy means of vengeance. 

I truly believe that there are those that don't deserve to breath the same air as the rest of us. 

I agree it probably isn't much of a deterrent. Someone who is evil or whacked out and is going to do the crime probably doesn't even think of consequences. I'm not especially religious but I think the saying "Vengeance is mine sayeth the Lord" is appropriate. I can understand revenge and would be all for it if one of my family was hurt. But I don't know if it's a good thing for a society to base punishment on. That said I have no problem with the death penalty for evil people based on there is no place for them in our society.

[Hooter]

Has the threat of death stopped anyone from committing the crime?

   I think not. I don't know what the average is for some whack job but probably half end up dead by LE or take their lives themselves after committing a murder. Suicide by cop isn't unheard of.
   There  is no 100% "certain or definite" that someone is guilty with the technology and forensics of today. But I would say that conviction utilizing either or both in association with other evidence is getting pretty close to it.
   There is however that percentage from years past that may be innocent but I think it is minute. But, today I don 't think the chances of that over ride a guilty conviction? All crooks maintain they are innocent especially felony perps. And maybe some of those in prison that have been there for years found guilty under less technology may be? The system isn't flawless but it is a bunch better than it has ever been.
   It can be argued that circumstantial evidence isn't proof beyond a reasonable doubt which is what all conviction is based on. (reasonable doubt) Officer testimony through investigation, witness testimony  (weather heard or visual) and "real evidence" can be pretty compelling. Failure by a prosecutor to prove a case using these tools will set any suspect free. Burden of proof is on the prosecutor. IF a defense attorney fails to do his or her job their client is going to jail or prison. I wouldn't have a PD represent / defend me for all the tea in China. Never seen one worth a pinch of dog crap.
  I do believe in the death penalty or capital punishment in crimes against a person(s). Example, this dirt bag that just murdered all these people in Kalamazoo should be dead himself! Not setting in prison where we take care of him for the rest of his life with our money. In all cases of guilt the death penalty should be carried out within a short period of time not 15 year later if at all.
   I'm  not a religious person either but I do believe in you reap what you sew. I would have to aske the non believers this question: IF someone raped your wife or daughter or any family member for that matter, would you feel the same way? OR, if someone shot and killed one of the same would you feel that way as well?
  

[Pete]

Has the threat of death stopped anyone from committing the crime?

Absolutely, no doubt, many in fact. And in addition it prevents the murderer from ever doing it again.