2ND PAIR VALVE? VACUUM LINE REPLACEMENT PREDICAMENT

[Whiskey Bravo]

Hi everyone,


I went to replace the vacuum lines today on my 97… And I don’t miss a muddy puddle…!



Let me describe the situation maybe someone can clue me in or at least give me some opinions


I purchased all the vacuum lines from redeye and I was going to install them today without removing the airbox (string method)


After careful examination this is my dilemma:


The number 6 carburetor vacuum line is not directly routed into the petcock valve it goes to a T which appears to me to be a 2nd pair valve which is located directly in front of the coils and is vertically mounted and then the vacuum line continues to the petcock valve


On carbs number 3 and 4 the vacuum line is connected to each other but there is a T which I assume goes to the pair valve located directly under the airbox although I have not been able to view what this particular connection is attached too.

I can use some help and suggestions on how to proceed with the vacuum lines replacement and what this other valve may be and how to move forward

Thanks again
Whiskey Bravo

[Brewer]

Take a look at this: http://www.valkyrieriders.com/shoptalk/desmog.htm
It explains the desmog process and has a bunch of information.

[Whiskey Bravo]

Thanks Brewer,

I fully inspected the link before I attempted to replace the vacuum lines

I anticipated the pictures and operation delineated to be the same on my bike as the one used in this demonstration

However, my bike is different in that the number 6 carburetor line appears to be going to a 2nd pair valve and is alike in that the number 3 and 4 carburetor vacuum line lines connect to one another and then go to the pair valve

Do you have any thoughts as to number 6 vacuum line situation?

Thank you

[Steel cowboy]

#6 carb vacumm line goes to the petcock.
#3 & 4 carb's vacumm lines go to the tee fitting and then 1 vacumm line to the pair valve.
Carb's  2-3 & 5 have their fittings plugged.

[Blackduck]

Where do the other lines on the second valve go to?
Sounds a bit like someone has added a Magna style fuel valve. These are remote mount vacuum valves
Cheers Steve

[The emperor has no clothes]

Removing and reinstalling the air box is really not that hard. I think you'd be much better off removing it first.

[sandy]

You have a California bike. The T is normal. Just replace the vacuum lines as they are.

[Whiskey Bravo]

Hi again everyone,

Steel cowboy – hi and thank you for your response:
that's my perplexing situation is that #6 has to go to the petcock but right now #6 goes to a T which splits off and appears to be connected to a secondary pair valve and then goes to the petcock

#3 & #4 look correct… I just stated I was unable to see the connection to the pair valve because my initial thoughts were that someone may have previously tried to replace the vacuum lines and use #6 & #3 (instead of #4 and #3 or some other concoction).

And I replaced the plugs on #2 #3 #5 from the redeye kit

Black duck – greetings and thank you for the helpful hints:
it doesn't look like anything aftermarket to me, it all looks like factory tubing and components… I am Beginning to wonder if there's a difference in a California bike in 1997… maybe extra emissions equipment?… What are your thoughts

Meathead – thanks for responding to my call for help:
I'm trying to avoid removing the airbox at all costs… I'm worried that the tubes that run to the intake will crack… And open up a whole new can of worms
also, I can see this mysterious valve and all the connections to it after a scrupulous inspection… Do you have any further thoughts?



I just don't understand how the #6 which is T to this mysterious valve which appears to be a pair valve and then further connected to the fuel petcock are unique to my bike…

Anyone else who may have more insight please chime in

Thank you all once again,

Whiskey Bravo

[Whiskey Bravo]

Hi Sandy,

I posted my response before I had a chance to read yours…

Okay, I'm in California so that makes perfect sense

Do you know if there's a vacuum schematic for the California bikes because I'm going to have to ask redeye to construct the petcock #6 vacuum line with a T & tubing to the valve and petcock

Also, while on the subject if I decide to Desmog at any point in the future. Are there any additional steps that have to be taken on a California bike?

Thanks again

Whiskey Bravo

[98valk]

california bikes have a charcoal canister under the bike.
go to the dag's norway site and download the service manual. hose diagram is there.

[The emperor has no clothes]

W.B. , I wasn't thinking about your bike being a CA model. I think Sandy has got it right. Here is a thread about a CA desmog. It shows a pic of the stuff removed.
http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,57613.0.html

[Whiskey Bravo]

98valk– Thanks very much for the helpful hints and tips the diagram will be very useful

Meathead– Thank you very much for taking the time to study and ponder my situation. The photo you directed me to is very insightful and has guided me in the decision to just replace the vacuum lines and leaves the D smog for some futures date

Thanks everyone, for your insights and helpful observations

Whiskey Bravo

[topgunfs]

been following your posts and have a few answers,  first of all you have the california version IF  the sixth intake vacuum hose has a T that supplies vacuum to the petcock and supplies vacuum to the CAV (carb air vent control valve)  its california smoged.  If you desmog a california version this is converted to a straight line to the petcock as you toss the CAV.  Also if you desmog a california version you cap off the 3 and 4 intake vacuums and toss the T assembly and the vertical vacuum hose that goes to the reed valve control.  Now to finish up the confusion the purge control valve is also vacuum opened usually from the 3rd carburator aux vacuum and when you toss the purge valve  you have to plug that vacuum line as well.
 
in summary three devices are opened by the vacuum created when the engine is running, all of these are non essential to having your engine run well ( a few minor adjustments post removal is all)  this is because at idle the engine is getting air from the evaporator can and there is some fuel vapor with it, so when this is disconnected the idle will drop about 100 to 200  rpm, just adjust it with the hand screw by number 3 carb.  The california system just allows vapors that are present in the fuel tank to be put in storage in the evaporator can , then sucked out to the carbs when the bike is running.  dont plug the fuel tank vent tube, keep it open but with an small fuel filter on the end to keep crap from getting into your fuel tank. 

I would suggest doing the desmog, especially with the california stuff crowding the mix and adding a bunch of potential vacuum leaks..... :0

[Jopson]

Mine is a California bike, that somehow ended up in South Dakota?!?
Just desmogged her earlier this summer after a bad vaccum leak left me sat on side of road, best thing I've done to the old girl yet! I also converted the stock petcock from vaccum operated to manual and installed a Dan Marc fuel shutoff.
Don't be afraid, just yank that crap outta there!!

[Steel cowboy]

You need to leave the fuel vent line alone, do not install a filter at the end. The line should be ran from the fitting at the back of the tank to the very bottom of the frame and hange down about an inch past the frame. You need to instal a tee fitting in the vent line half way up with nothing attached to the tee fitting. The reason for the fitting is for it to act as a vacumm by pass. When driving in rain you could experience a clog caused by water, the fitting will allow the tank to still vent. If the tank doesn't vent it will cause a vacumm and the bike will run like poop.

[Chrisj CMA]

You need to leave the fuel vent line alone, do not install a filter at the end. The line should be ran from the fitting at the back of the tank to the very bottom of the frame and hange down about an inch past the frame. You need to instal a tee fitting in the vent line half way up with nothing attached to the tee fitting. The reason for the fitting is for it to act as a vacumm by pass. When driving in rain you could experience a clog caused by water, the fitting will allow the tank to still vent. If the tank doesn't vent it will cause a vacumm and the bike will run like poop.

I m not sure about the "vacuum by pass" and the tank getting clogged by water.  Many have removed the what you call a vent line. The vent still works.  It's not really a "vent line". It is there in case fuel would start to syphon out of the tank though the vent, the tube will save your bike from getting covered with gas.  The "T" is a syphon break to hopefully stop the tank from siphoning all the gas in the rare event such a syphoning would occur.

[Hook#3287]

http://www.partzilla.com/parts/search/Honda/Motorcycle/1998/GL1500C+A/FUEL+TANK/parts.html

#29 & #2

If this is the hose being discussed here, I believe it to be a dual purpose item.

It allows gas to be moved to under the engine, in the case of an overfill, and also allows air into the tank for venting.

If you remove the "T" and just run a solid hose to under the swingarm area, in a rainstorm, you could lose the gravity feed for your gas to reach the carbs, because the water clogs the hose, creating a vacuum in your gas tank.

I know this becuase 14 years ago, I removed the "T", not knowing it's purpose and thinking it was a mistake being there.  First rain event, no go.

[Whiskey Bravo]

Hi everyone,

I have an update and a few new dilemmas…

I replaced all the vacuum lines and now I have a few new issues that have popped up

Like the old joke says I have good news and I have bad news


The bad news: I seem to be down about 15% on power

The good news: the minor popping issue at idle and deceleration at low RPMs is virtually nonexistent



The steps I’ve taken to try and correct the bad news

   At first I thought the problem may have been that I improperly seated one of the intakes from the airbox…

So I disassembled and reassembled and rechecked all vacuum lines, checked to make sure air intakes are properly seated to the airbox and made sure everything was snug and tight I did this 3 different times taking the bike for a test ride in-between each attempt

I guess I should mention that I also replaced the fuel line and took great care in making sure it was the precise same length as the factory line and I used 5/16 fuel line…

Additionally, I retightened the 4 screws on the fuel valve because the valve was a little wet but not leaking

Do you think the small difference in circumference in the size of the hose may be the cause of the loss of power?… I’m just grabbing at straws… LOL


Any other thoughts and suggestions would be greatly appreciated


Thank you


Whiskey Bravo

[The emperor has no clothes]

Hi everyone,

I have an update and a few new dilemmas…

I replaced all the vacuum lines and now I have a few new issues that have popped up

Like the old joke says I have good news and I have bad news


The bad news: I seem to be down about 15% on power

The good news: the minor popping issue at idle and deceleration at low RPMs is virtually nonexistent



The steps I’ve taken to try and correct the bad news

   At first I thought the problem may have been that I improperly seated one of the intakes from the airbox…

So I disassembled and reassembled and rechecked all vacuum lines, checked to make sure air intakes are properly seated to the airbox and made sure everything was snug and tight I did this 3 different times taking the bike for a test ride in-between each attempt

I guess I should mention that I also replaced the fuel line and took great care in making sure it was the precise same length as the factory line and I used 5/16 fuel line…

Additionally, I retightened the 4 screws on the fuel valve because the valve was a little wet but not leaking

Do you think the small difference in circumference in the size of the hose may be the cause of the loss of power?… I’m just grabbing at straws… LOL


Any other thoughts and suggestions would be greatly appreciated


Thank you


Whiskey Bravo

Your petcock was wet with fuel ? I forget if you said you have done the cover set rebuild ? I think at the least take it apart and examine the diaphragms. There should be no reason to lose 10-15 % power. If the petcock isn't flowing correctly that could do it.

[Hook#3287]

Seems to me, once your carb bowls are full , you would have full power till they used up the flow.

If you are having a fuel starvation event, it would feel similar to when you run low on gas and need to switch on to reserve.