Clutch Issue

[Tejas]

I've got a '99 Classic that I bought a year ago from a used car lot.  Runs decent, but slowly working the bugs out of her.....and I'm a new Texas member.

My question/problem is my clutch lever started to not go all the way down to the handlebar when I squeeze it, stopping a 1/4" from the bar and not quite disengaging the clutch all the way.  No other noises or problems.  I've checked the fluid and bled it, but it's still the same.

My first thoughts are to rebuild the clutch master cylinder and replace the clutch slave cylinder, parts I ordered yesterday.

Anybody else's thoughts?  Thanks in advance.

[Chrisj CMA]

Probably a bigger issue.  If the pressure plate in the clutch pack is loosing rivets (which is known to happen) that will cause the reduced travel in the handle.  If this is the case, replacement of at least the pressure plate is required or the problem will only get worse.

BTW, I know this is all new to you.  There is no such thing as a '99 Classic.  There is Standard, Tourer and Interstate.

Standard comes with no windshield / no saddlebags

Tourer comes with a windshield and saddlebags

Interstate comes with bags shield and faring.

I suspect you have a Standard.

[F6Dave]

Chris is right on.  That symptom usually means the rivets in the clutch damper plate are shearing.  They get stuck in the clutch pack and cause the lever to stop part of the way through its travel.  Usually the rivet gets ejected and all feels fine until the next one shears.

It's really not a major job to fix it, maybe 4-5 hours.  The parts are not all that expensive either.  There are plenty of posts, some with pictures (including my own) on this board that cover it in detail.

[Gideon]

Noting this was your first post, I say welcome to a great group and knowledgeable forum.
Look forward to hearing from you when you correct the problem.
Ride safe ! 

[Valkpilot]

I agree with the above BUT...

I would do easy stuff first. 

Check the clutch lever and bushings for wear. http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,91199.msg901420.html#msg901420

A complete flush of the clutch master cylinder and lines is needed if the bike has sat and/or was neglected. 

Using a Mity-Vac will help pull gelled brake fluid through that might not leave the lines just by doing the lever squeeze, open bleeder method.   I would use a Q-Tip and alcohol to thoroughly clean out the master cylinder.

If the lever still has some give to it when you pull it close to the grip, this may resolve the problem.  If it's very rigid, i.e., rock hard when fully squeezed, it's more likely the rivets in the damper plate coming apart.  Here's a write-up on clutch replacement: http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,20870.0.html

[Tejas]

Thank you all very much.  That's exactly what I need to know. I have already bought the seal kit for the clutch master cylinder and the slave parts.  These are parts that get a lot of use over the life of the bike and I don't know how well it was maintained.  I'll do a good cleaning and maintenance of the lines when I change these out.

And if that doesn't change anything, I'll delve into what's under the clutch cover.  Thank you again guys.  I apologize for the wrong info, it's a Standard.

I'll post back once I get and change the parts out.  I sure appreciate it!

[indybobm]

Again, congrats on getting the Valk. In case you do not have the Honda Service Manual, here is a link where you can download a pdf version from the Norway Site.

http://valkyrienorway.com/download.html

[Skinhead]

Welcome to the board and the Shop talk pages and search are your friends.  A LOT of good information.  I believe our own Lady Draco changed her clutch, even made a post about it if I recall correctly, complete with pictures.  And I'm sure there are others, so search and read.  You won't regret it.

skinhead

[gordonv]

Welcome to the madness! You also might like to post your location in your profile, helps a lot in getting help.

From your first post, sounds like it's happening all the time, so it's not the pressure plates... those can cause go good/bad/good. The following is the clutch lever privot, and is more likely your problem.

http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,83167.0.html

Since you're new, search for hydro lock and rear end maintenance.

[Mr.BubblesVRCCDS0008]

Welcome to the best forum and club ever. I m in Huffman tx and have done a clutch job no problem. Go to Texas board Lenny of good people and knowledge.

[F6Dave]

The sheared clutch rivet problem has a very distinct, and unusual, symptom:  the lever comes to a very hard stop before it reaches the grip.  If you ride the bike and use the clutch a few times, the problem may temporarily disappear because centrifugal force throws the rivet out of the clutch pack.

If you do end up needing a new damper plate because of sheared rivets, here are some shortcuts from my post when I replaced mine a few years ago:

After many months I finally got around to replacing the clutch on my ’98 Tourer.  As some others have experienced, the rivets in the damper plate failed.  This is not uncommon on some high mileage Valks.

The job took several hours, but was not difficult at all.  Getting the center plastic cover off was more of a PITA than any of the other work.  Clearance isn’t as good as in a bike with a more typical transversely mounted engine, but once you have it on a lift with a few pieces removed (I didn’t even remove the tank) there is plenty of clearance to remove the rear cover and clutch center pack without any special tools (not even a wobble joint for your ratchet).

Here are of a couple of things I learned:

I’d read that the disk alignment must nearly perfect or the compressed clutch center pack will not fit back into the basket.  I used a couple of large washers and a spring in 2 places to hold the pack together with some light pressure.  This allowed me to align the disks in the basket, and keep them aligned when I compressed the diaphragm spring and replaced the circlip.



Speaking of compressing the spring, I made a simple tool out of a 2x4, long bolt, a plastic pipe fitting, and an old lawnmower blade.  I knew that blade would come in handy one day!  This allowed me to use straight tips on the circlip pliers which seem to work better than 90 or 45 degree tips.



While I used an impact wrench to remove the big clutch nut, I wanted to torque the new one to the Honda spec.  Here’s a simple clutch holder tool I made from another 2x4.

[Tejas]

Thank you all so much.  I truly appreciate all the information.

I'm somewhat mechanically inclined, so I will make this repair myself, with the help of the y'all and the links sent (and if a girl can do it, so can I....haha).  I've already got it up on jack stands and the simple parts on order.  If they don't fix it, I'll be pulling the clutch cover.  I had just finished changing the oil, so I'll catch the new oil and put it back in the gallon jug that I kept.

I had just finished rebuilding the carbs about a month ago and hate having to put her back up on stands to work on it again .  I'm ready to do a little riding....all in time. I'll also look into adding to my profile and Texas board.

Thank you again, your information is invaluable and y'alls kindness and helpfulness is a beautiful thing.
Enjoy the ride.
Malcolm

[Daviddurtschi]

great write up for a newbie.  I've got a starter issue that appears to be a broken tooth that the starter engages with.  It still works but I can hear it as the starter goes around.  Do you think I can fix/replace that gear on the bike, since the cover has to come off also?

[Beardo]

great write up for a newbie.  I've got a starter issue that appears to be a broken tooth that the starter engages with.  It still works but I can hear it as the starter goes around.  Do you think I can fix/replace that gear on the bike, since the cover has to come off also?

Since that has nothing to do with this topic, you should make your own thread. 

Or scratch that idea...search hydrolock and do some reading. You've got some work ahead of you.

[Bighead]

He has a thread on it.

[Tejas]

Well, I rebuilt the clutch master cylinder, installed the new slave cylinder, bled it out and it's acting the same as it was.

When I pull the lever, it works, but stops about a 1/4" from the bar.  It's not quite disengaging all the way.  And it's kind of intermittent, sometimes it pulls in fine all the way to the bar and after a couple pulls it begins not going all the way down to the bar again.

I guess it's going to be a clutch job after all.  I'll try to start tearing it down after Thanksgiving is behind me.

Thank you all for your info and links.  gordonv, I'll holler at you on PM if I get in a bind.  I'm in cy-fair.

Happy Thanksgiving and God's blessings to you all.

[indybobm]

Do you have stock levers or aftermarket levers. The reason I ask is that aftermarket levers can change the length of stroke.

[Tejas]

I'm pretty sure that they are stock. I bought it used from a used car lot last year, so I don't know much of it's history.  It's a stock Standard.  It has run fine before.

I've gotten it jacked up, accessories pulled and clutch cover off.  I've found a few wandering brass rivets in the bottom of the case, so I'm pretty sure from what I've read here that it's a clutch pack/pressure plate issue.

Just need to find the link that describes the clutch rebuild.

[Mr.BubblesVRCCDS0008]

Malcolm. I can't get my pm to send. Call me tomorrow about 10am. 713 818 970 three. Lady drago has a good clutch replacement thread with text and photos

[Ricky-D]

Malcolm. I can't get my pm to send. Call me tomorrow about 10am. 713 818 970 three. Lady drago has a good clutch replacement thread with text and photos

Yeah, I agree. She did a good write-up. I looked (search) and couldn't find her thread. Seems it was around 2009.Here is her album of pictures that I could find. If anyone finds the thread please post it. 

Pictures:  http://www.far-riders.com/albums/thumbnails.php?album=68&page=1

***

[F6Dave]

I'm pretty sure that they are stock. I bought it used from a used car lot last year, so I don't know much of it's history.  It's a stock Standard.  It has run fine before.

I've gotten it jacked up, accessories pulled and clutch cover off.  I've found a few wandering brass rivets in the bottom of the case, so I'm pretty sure from what I've read here that it's a clutch pack/pressure plate issue.

Just need to find the link that describes the clutch rebuild.

Heck, you're well on your way to having it done.  You only have 3 real issues left to deal with, and none are that difficult:

1.  The big nut holding the clutch pack in the basket is tight.  You either need an impact wrench or some kind of tool to hold the basket while you loosen/tighten it.  I made a tool from a 2x4.

2.  You need something to compress the pack so you can remove the circlip holding it together.  There are lots of ways to get this done.

3.  When re-compressing the pack, the disks need to line up nearly perfectly or they won't slide back into the basket.  Some guys had to try several times before it fit.

The rest of the stuff is real simple.

[Tejas]

Good morning and Happy Thanksgiving to all.

Thank you MrBubbles, but I saw your post a bit late.  I saw you have an e-mail on your profile page, I'll shoot you an e-mail there

All is going great.  I couldn't have done it without y'all.  Thank you.

I have the clutch bundle out of the bike and unbundled (spring pressure off).  I made a PVC pipe fitting compression tools as shown in the pics and worked beautifully.  I just need to order my parts.

I did find a strange issue inside the starter opening into the engine.  (yes, I pulled the starter)  It looks like the case broke inside on a pivot for a gear just inside the opening. The starter goes into a splined gear that turns a secondary gear, which is where this welding repair was made.  Anyone ever heard of or seen this problem and repair made?

I took off more than was probably needed ( alternator, starter, seat lock panel, untethered all the electrical) so that I could access the work easier.  Now, I'm wondering if I should go ahead and pull the rear wheel and drive shaft while I have it torn down so much.  I'll buckle up the clutch before I start so to not confuse the matter with several projects.

What do y'all think?  I have no maintenance history of this bike and from what I've see, it's been deferred.

[indybobm]

Sounds like the previous owner did a hydro-lock repair. Sometimes when the bike hydro-locks and the starter button is pushed, that pivot boss gets broken. Done properly, a repair like you are talking about should be ok. Just be aware of hydro-lock symptons and do not press the starter button after you hear the dreaded 'clunk' until you have removed the spark plugs.

[Valker]

Yes, service the entire rear drive system while it's down anyway.

[Tejas]

Thanks guys.

I'm going to research hydro-lock now, thank you.

[Tejas]

Good day folks,

I ordered my parts today from Honda Parts Nation.  I believe it was $278, including shipping.  Hopefully I will have them by the weekend.

I found those pesky migrating brass rivets and metal plates loose and around.  My clutch basket and other pieces look good.  I imagine if you wait too long to make this repair, the pieces will start to score and scratch the basket and do more damage.

Any how, thank you all so very much for the info and suggestions that you have imparted on me.  It is invaluable and most appreciated.  I will post again once it's back together or I'm in need of further assistance.

Thank you, thank you, thank you

[hubcapsc]

Malcolm. I can't get my pm to send. Call me tomorrow about 10am. 713 818 970 three. Lady drago has a good clutch replacement thread with text and photos

Yeah, I agree. She did a good write-up. I looked (search) and couldn't find her thread. Seems it was around 2009.Here is her album of pictures that I could find. If anyone finds the thread please post it. 

Pictures:  http://www.far-riders.com/albums/thumbnails.php?album=68&page=1

***

I forget when we changed over to the new board format. After a while they turned off the old tech archives,
apparently keeping them running was like kicking a dead whale down the beach...

-Mike

[Tejas]

Thank you hubcapsc,

You found them!!  Thank you.

Mine look the same, but I don't wear nail polish.  hehe

[hubcapsc]

That was Ricky-D that posted the link to Lady Draco's pictures... she
has pictures somewhere of how to change out the u-joint boot too 

-Mike

[Tejas]

Oh sorry hubcapsc and thank you Ricky-D,

Credit where credit it due.  I'm new to the forum thang and keeping up with who said what is difficult for me at times.

Thanks, I'll look for Lady D's posting on the u-joint boot.  That's next.  My ride is gonna be so sweet when I'm done.