Softest ride for passenger

[photochaser]

I need to make the passenger ride as gentle as possible. Harsh upward bumps are the big issue. They jolt my wife when I don't see them in time and warn her.

I'm 270 lbs. She is about half that. Bike is '99 Tourer. Any suggestions on which (stock) rear shock setting to use? Too hard will be, well, too hard and jittery. Too soft could result in bottoming out and a really bad thump through her spine. I suppose testing is the best way to know, but that would require repeatedly going over the same bump at the same speed with the same passenger.

The other consideration is the seat. Between stock (which I have), Mustang, Ultimate, and others, which seat best absorbs this kind of jarring bump? (Corbin would be a disaster!)

Any input is appreciated. She is surprisingly getting back on with me after I (solo) crashed back in October. I want it to be as pleasant an experience as possible.

Thanks!
Jeff

[Houdini]

The other consideration is the seat. Between stock (which I have), Mustang, Ultimate, and others, which seat best absorbs this kind of jarring bump? (Corbin would be a disaster!)

Thanks!
Jeff

Russell Daylong is, IMHO, the best seat available on the planet.

[photochaser]

The other consideration is the seat. Between stock (which I have), Mustang, Ultimate, and others, which seat best absorbs this kind of jarring bump? (Corbin would be a disaster!)

Thanks!
Jeff

Russell Daylong is, IMHO, the best seat available on the planet.

The question is, does it absorb bumps the best. The "best seat" for "daylong" riding might not do that. The best seat for durability or other considerations may be horrible at absorbing harsh bumps (think Corbin).

I will look into the Daylong's though. I've heard good things about them.

[sandy]

The best solution is aftermarket shocks. Progressive 444's, Works Performance or Hyper Pro's. Any of them will make you wallet a bit lighter but worth it in the long run.

[Houdini]

Seats are a personal thing, some here probably think the Corbin is best for big bumps.  I've had stock, Mustang, Corbin, Ultimate, and Russell.  I think Russell is the best, by far, not just a little better.  If you want soft and shock absorbing then try an AirHawk on whatever seat you have, they are made for wheelchair bound patients so they are comfortable and allow airflow, in essence you are riding on small air bladders that absorb shock and heat.

[photochaser]

try an AirHawk on whatever seat you have

I already have one on there. As my daughter says, my wife is "a delicate butterfly". 

[photochaser]

The best solution is aftermarket shocks. Progressive 444's, Works Performance or Hyper Pro's. Any of them will make you wallet a bit lighter but worth it in the long run.

Looking at shocks now. WOW! Those do set you back! Almost as much as a complete dual seat. 

[98valk]

u need a set of Interstate shocks. The have much better damping, and spring rate to be smoother over bumps than the std/tourer shocks which are very harsh with poor damping with a bad spring rate.

[Ricky-D]

You'll just be wasting your money. With that much weight on the bike there's no way you can stop bottoming out on a lot of bumps and if you could do what you want, the ride will be so harsh it'll be the other extreme. There's just not enough travel in the rear end of the Valkyrie to have it the way you want. You may get some suggesting it's possible, but then they're spending your money in a manner of speaking. Read this again. You'll be wasting your money!

***

[photochaser]

Lots of answers, and I appreciate that. Since nobody has offered any thoughts on where I set the original shocks, I looked to see if there is an accelerometer app for my iPhone, and there are several. I'll try that over a nearby bump and the weight of my wife simulated on the rear seat.

Having just repaired my Valk from my crash, I'm hoping to not spend much more money right now. Already laid out some for Skene Lights' P3 and Photon Blasters. Although my crash was completely without help from a cager, I feel an increased vulnerability from those who don't see me. A harsh ride is one thing. A collision with my wife on-board is another.

[Icelander]

How close is your daughter to your wife's weight? Can your daughter "sit in" so that you could test? That would be the cheapest option initially until you've tested the settings on your existing shocks.

Unfortunately, you may only get a partial solution to your answer.

Is the jolting aggravating an injury or other condition that causes her pain? This may be something that she should see a specialist about. Not to say that you shouldn't try and make the ride as comfortable for her as you can but Ricky-D has a point. There's only so much you can do. An airshock might give you finer control but it may also change the ride due to needing enough pressure to not bottom out.

I hope you can find a solution. To have a spouse that will ride with you is enviable.

Icelander

[photochaser]

How close is your daughter to your wife's weight? Can your daughter "sit in" so that you could test? That would be the cheapest option initially until you've tested the settings on your existing shocks.

Unfortunately, you may only get a partial solution to your answer.

Is the jolting aggravating an injury or other condition that causes her pain? This may be something that she should see a specialist about. Not to say that you shouldn't try and make the ride as comfortable for her as you can but Ricky-D has a point. There's only so much you can do. An airshock might give you finer control but it may also change the ride due to needing enough pressure to not bottom out.

I hope you can find a solution. To have a spouse that will ride with you is enviable.

Icelander

My daughter is close in weight and I thought of that. But if I can do it with the accelerometer, that would both be more quantitative and not take up my busy daughter's time.

My wife doesn't have a specific injury. She has had some health issues that she sees doctors for, and she's 60, so there is that. I'm almost 60, but I'm not delicate and I imagine the passenger gets a more harsh ride.

I'm so glad she wants to ride with me after I biffed it all by myself. Broke 6 ribs in 9 places, so she saw me in a LOT of pain. I told her I'd understand if she didn't want to, but she has and both times asked to extend the ride.

Thanks for your input.

[98valk]

it is all about the damping. std/tourer shocks like I stated will always give a harsh ride to big sharp bumps. upping the spring preload will keep from bottoming but now even harsher. If u want a smoother ride u have to change shocks.
side note: have u checked the upper shock bushings, they are known to wear out then metal to metal equals a hard ride.

I/S shocks spring rate is 140/155/170/185/200 lb/in
Std/tourer shocks spring rate is 120/132.5/145/157.5/170 lb/in

some have tried GL1500 shock setup. http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,13356.0.html

[Novavalker]

Switch to a CT.

[gordonv]

Have had the Valk IS, 3 different ones now, and a GW GL1500. OEM seats, Ultimate, Corbin, and now waiting on installing a rear Mustang. My wife has liked them all. I also have an AirHawk, and a sheep skin sometimes.

If I know, I set the shocks firm (5).

She has never complained about the ride not being soft. I do hit the odd hard bump, but no complaints.

I think it's that big natural padding that she seems to carry around with her all the time. Even though she has recently lost 50# and complains about sitting sometimes, and her seat hurting, it has never happened on the MC.

My though would be a 1/2 inflated AirHawk, for shock absorption.

[art]

I had the same problem back in 96 when I hit a bad dip in the roadway on my 89 wing. It bottomed out and hurt my wife. Never really found a good solution but the Valk was better and the car tire helped even more probably due to lower air pressure in it. Some mc tires are rock hard which don't help. My solution was at 71 years old was to stop riding after an accident and not wanting my wife to ride with me and have her get hurt.

[photochaser]

Switch to a CT.

What do you mean? The bike is a Tourer, which is the GL1500CT.

[photochaser]

Have had the Valk IS, 3 different ones now, and a GW GL1500. OEM seats, Ultimate, Corbin, and now waiting on installing a rear Mustang. My wife has liked them all. I also have an AirHawk, and a sheep skin sometimes.

If I know, I set the shocks firm (5).

She has never complained about the ride not being soft. I do hit the odd hard bump, but no complaints.

I think it's that big natural padding that she seems to carry around with her all the time. Even though she has recently lost 50# and complains about sitting sometimes, and her seat hurting, it has never happened on the MC.

My though would be a 1/2 inflated AirHawk, for shock absorption.

My wife is quite thin, although what extra she has is in the seat. And we do have the lightly inflated air hawk.

There is an older Aspencade (1200CC) in my garage right now. Long story. The stock seat is MUCH cushier than my stock Valk seat. Just wondering if something like that would help.

I'm gonna play with the shocks to see what generates the least impact to the passenger. Now to find the time and something to function as a simulated passenger.

[Novavalker]

Switch to a CT.

What do you mean? The bike is a Tourer, which is the GL1500CT.

Car Tire

[photochaser]

Switch to a CT.

What do you mean? The bike is a Tourer, which is the GL1500CT.

Car Tire

Where do you find those??? I looked on some car tire websites and there are no tires nearly that thin with that big of a rim.

[98valk]

Switch to a CT.

What do you mean? The bike is a Tourer, which is the GL1500CT.

Car Tire

Where do you find those??? I looked on some car tire websites and there are no tires nearly that thin with that big of a rim.

here is the tire I use. with width compared to E3.

http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,90637.0.html

[photochaser]

Switch to a CT.

What do you mean? The bike is a Tourer, which is the GL1500CT.

Car Tire

Where do you find those??? I looked on some car tire websites and there are no tires nearly that thin with that big of a rim.

here is the tire I use. with width compared to E3.

http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,90637.0.html

I'm reading all the posts on your thread. What I don't see is why people switch to a CT. Is it for my reason, a softer ride? Or other reasons?

[photochaser]

Switch to a CT.

What do you mean? The bike is a Tourer, which is the GL1500CT.

Car Tire

Where do you find those??? I looked on some car tire websites and there are no tires nearly that thin with that big of a rim.

here is the tire I use. with width compared to E3.

http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,90637.0.html

I'm reading all the posts on your thread. What I don't see is why people switch to a CT. Is it for my reason, a softer ride? Or other reasons?

I responded too quickly. Almost the last post said, "There are many benefits of a CT over a bike tire;  longevity, durability and traction in all conditions are the main ones."  No mention of my objective of a softer ride for the passenger, though.

[Houdini]

Switch to a CT.

What do you mean? The bike is a Tourer, which is the GL1500CT.

Car Tire

Where do you find those??? I looked on some car tire websites and there are no tires nearly that thin with that big of a rim.

here is the tire I use. with width compared to E3.

http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,90637.0.html

I'm reading all the posts on your thread. What I don't see is why people switch to a CT. Is it for my reason, a softer ride? Or other reasons?

Costs less
Lasts longer
Handles better wet and dry
Corners better
Improved ride
Just looks cool
Need more reasons?

[photochaser]

Costs less
Lasts longer
Handles better wet and dry
Corners better
Improved ride
Just looks cool
Need more reasons?
[/quote]

All good reasons, but my main objective is softer on my wife. Just want to be sure that objective will be met. Looking cools is a definite bonus. Handles better? Why don't bikes come with flatter tires, then? I'd think a hard lean would cause some squirrelly handling.

[Valker]

Costs less
Lasts longer
Handles better wet and dry
Corners better
Improved ride
Just looks cool
Need more reasons?

All good reasons, but my main objective is softer on my wife. Just want to be sure that objective will be met. Looking cools is a definite bonus. Handles better? Why don't bikes come with flatter tires, then? I'd think a hard lean would cause some squirrelly handling.

[/quote]

[MarkT]

Well our weights are about the same.  I've setup Jade with Progressive 444's with 140-205 springs IIRC, Russell Daylong and Austone TT running 43#.  Have preload cranked all the way up - so it handles really harsh bumps even with the trailers. The bumps just disappear. This setup is far better than the 416 air shocks, Ultimate seat, and Vredestein 205/60 at 34# on Deerslayer. And much cushier than George's setup with a Corbin, Metzler at 42#, and 440's - don't know the springs on it.

I'll add, the 444's are expensive and you really need to change the spring rate to 140-205 at your weights - but once you do, well I found this setup is FAR more pleasant than other suspensions I've used.  The springs are only about $20 for the pair - I was surprised. Notwithstanding Ricky-D's denial, this setup will actually eliminate harsh bumps - it DOES work for that - and with even more weight.  Gotta say trust me on this, speaking from experience and I'm your size + 20#, so is wifey like your wife - about 135#.  Also - get a strap wrench to change the preload - though you won't need to change it much.  You really need it; there's no turning the top of these shocks through their range w/o - that's eight turns.  This type wrench:

[photochaser]

OK. After all the great info and discussions with others, I'm leaning toward changing the stock shocks to Progressive 444's. Here are some questions:

1. On the Progressive site, if you put the GL1500CT in the system, it comes up with 412 and 416 shocks only. Not the 444's. Is that just an oversight on their part?
2. They offer standard, heavy-duty, and super heavy-duty. From their info, heavy duty is perfect for my solo and 2-up riding, 250 lb+. Only if I get some of this excess off and ride solo will I be outside that range. Agree?
3. What seems to be the choice? Chrome or black. I know lots of people are changing from chrome to black on their bikes, but I love the classic look of the Valk. But then, it will be chrome springs, not a chrome cover as with the stock shocks. That, plus the extra $100+ for chrome, I'm leaning toward the black. Thoughts?
4. Just to be sure. 13", right?
5. And the ones that fit a Harley, fit a Valk, right? No difference in the joint at the ends?
6. Where do you recommend buying them? Amazon has the black 13" heavy duty pair for $499. Seems hard to beat.

Thanks!
Jeff

[Bagger John - #3785]

The best solution is aftermarket shocks. Progressive 444's, Works Performance or Hyper Pro's. Any of them will make you wallet a bit lighter but worth it in the long run.

Gotta go with this.

[Leathel]

I have run 444, 412 & 412 HD on my old 1100, 444 was the winner, when you hit those random big bump/holes you dont get the jar through your back while running the shocks at a comfortable setting, if you wound the others up it stopped the jar but the ride was so much firmer on the smaller bumps


For my Valk I have got another brand to try but not fitted them yet so can't comment if that was a good idea.....444 for the Valk was just more than I could afford.....although if I dont like what I got the 444 might have been cheaper if I have to buy them in the end

[Houdini]

412 HD's* on both my Valk's, love 'em, and use the extra cash to buy a new seat for your wife.

5. And the ones that fit a Harley, fit a Valk, right? No difference in the joint at the ends?

*HD = Heavy Duty, not Harley Davidson.

[Valker]

I called Progressive and the told me they do NOT make a 444 that fits our 1500 Valks anymore.

[Leathel]

I called Progressive and the told me they do NOT make a 444 that fits our 1500 Valks anymore.

444-4209 are the ones selling to fit the Valk on Ebay... but I think they are a little shorter than stock shocks which would be an issue for me as I am already dragging the pegs

[photochaser]

I called Progressive and the told me they do NOT make a 444 that fits our 1500 Valks anymore.

From what I've learned, this is true. The 440 was for Valks and they quit making them. But many people do an easy modification of the 444 and use them. Progressive knows this. But of course, they can't recommend it.

[Jess from VA]

I called Progressive and the told me they do NOT make a 444 that fits our 1500 Valks anymore.

From what I've learned, this is true. The 440 was for Valks and they quit making them. But many people do an easy modification of the 444 and use them. Progressive knows this. But of course, they can't recommend it.

I understand the modification is so minor as to be laughable.  I wish someone who has done it would post up the details of this modification. 

I think Progressive did this with the 444s to avoid the lifetime warranty on the tens of thousands of 440s that are still out there (and which will all fail eventually).

[MarkT]

Right about it being trivial.  Hardly worth mentioning.  IIRC it amounted to changing one of the bushing sleeves.  Shortening it some or drilling it some.  So trivial it was 5 minutes maybe and I'm not sure exactly what I did. You don't need a metal shop like mine.

Something I've noticed.  Has anybody experienced springs getting weaker over time?  It seems mine have. I used to run the 140-200 springs at half preload and no bottoming even with my 210# bro on the back.  Never bottomed with SO on the back even with trailer.  Now I've had to crank it up to full preload to prevent bottoming. Is this just me?  Haven't checked the scales lately but my pants still fit the same. This is with only 15,000 miles on the bike since installing the shocks. Though the highway miles pulling heavy trailers.

[Leathel]

Right about it being trivial.  Hardly worth mentioning.  IIRC it amounted to changing one of the bushing sleeves.  Shortening it some or drilling it some.  So trivial it was 5 minutes maybe and I'm not sure exactly what I did. You don't need a metal shop like mine.

Something I've noticed.  Has anybody experienced springs getting weaker over time?  It seems mine have. I used to run the 140-200 springs at half preload and no bottoming even with my 210# bro on the back.  Never bottomed with SO on the back even with trailer.  Now I've had to crank it up to full preload to prevent bottoming. Is this just me?  Haven't checked the scales lately but my pants still fit the same. This is with only 15,000 miles on the bike since installing the shocks. Though the highway miles pulling heavy trailers.

Could be the oil degrading and the damper not doing its job as well, we know oil degrades in forks so I guess it will in shocks?

Yes/no?

[98valk]

china spring steel being used now to keep costs down?

[Novavalker]

I called Progressive and the told me they do NOT make a 444 that fits our 1500 Valks anymore.

Theses Shocks seem to be available.
What length do you recommend for the Interstate?

https://fortnine.ca/en/progressive-suspension-444-series-shocks

[98valk]

I called Progressive and the told me they do NOT make a 444 that fits our 1500 Valks anymore.

Theses Shocks seem to be available.
What length do you recommend for the Interstate?

https://fortnine.ca/en/progressive-suspension-444-series-shocks

13" eye to eye is standard length.