Progressive shocks

[bill-jr]

I know its been beat to death here but i was looking for new shocks i thought i wanted 12” hd  progressive 440’s but cant seem to locate them on the progressive web site and ebay is so all over the place im not sure if im looking at a 412 or 440 or a standard or hd ....
Any help or a link to the right set would be helpful.....

[Kunkies]

Recommend Progressive 444's.  If you like a more stable ride when 1-up and to float on water when 2-up I would get them with Heavy Duty springs (HD not to be confused with Harley Davidson).  I also installed Progressive fork springs about ~1 month ago after they sat in my garage for 3+ years and  regret waiting.

I'm 5' 10" and ~195lbs wet.  I went 1/2" downin length from stock on the 444's, or 12.5"

You won't be disappointed, huge difference

Hope this helps

 

[hubcapsc]

Hi Bill...

I don't remember how tall you are compared to me, but I have 13 inch 440s...
I know I wouldn't go shorter. 444s are the "good" Progressive shocks now,
I like my 440s a lot and the 444s are probably as good or better. All that to
say: consider "Works Performance" shocks before you buy...

-Mike

[bill-jr]

Im 5’9” and a healthy 250 plus my wife is on the back 99%of the time
And regularly tow my trailer behind me ...
I see the 444s look like what i need ... i thought stock shocks were 12”?
I have progressives on the bike now but they are shot ....
bottom out on every bump and are set all the way up they are not the twisting kind like 444
They are similar to the stock shocks where as you need a tool to twist and lock them into place maybe 412?!?
Also kunkies yes i have had front progressives in for years and do like the feel of them also
I think works performance  is no longer in business.....

[hubcapsc]

Im 5’9”

I'm 5'11''... I'd say get shorter than 13 only if you're uneasy
about coming to a stop otherwise... 13 helps keep hard parts
from dragging on Tennessee mountain roads. And also, the
advice about HD springs, I think that is important also, especially
with two on board...

-Mike

[MarkT]

You need more than just "HD" springs.  My weight similar to yours and tow trailers, wife sometimes on the back.  You need to specify the spring's tension.  They make 444's with rates of 75/120, 90/130, 105/150, 120/170, 140/200, 210/250, and 270/315, all with the standard 13" length.  The shock body needs to be matched with the springs.  I've tried 105/150, 140/200, and 210/250. The right spring for me - and pretty sure for you - is the 140/200.  That's shock # 444-4057.  Jorge is the knowledgable tech over at Progressive, not Jeff or Chad.

Also, you'll need a strap wrench to change the weight.  I don't care what they say - betcha a dollar THEY don't change the preload w/o one.  Looks like this:



Actually I use the slightly bigger grey tool.  BONUS, once you get there you can open a beer with the tool.

[hubcapsc]

I've got one of those cheap strap wrenches, they work GREAT. I'd
given up on twisting my shocks after I got the bag rails (they're kind
of in the way)... the strap wrench makes it easy.

-Mike

[Jess from VA]

Progressive 440s are history and no longer made (or fixed, even though they were given a lifetime warranty at purchase, as an inducement for their very expensive price).

[Itinifni]

While I agree with Mark on the spring rate (140/200) I respectfully disagree on the 444-4057 shock, I'll explain.

Since Progressive does not spec a model 444 shock for the Valkyrie we are forced to do our own research to find the correct model. Luckily Mark and others have already done their own research and posted it here to give us a head start. I tried to reach Jorge at progressive three times without success so I gave up on that route.

I downloaded the Specifications and Technical Information pdf from Progressive's site and began comparing specs. I focused only on 13" shocks since I don't want to change the ride height.

Progressive does spec a 13" model 412 for the Valk, model 412-4213 (standard) and 412-4221 (HD)
Specs on the 412-4213:
Ext length 13.01" Comp. Length 9.49" Travel 3.52" Spring Rate 120/170
Specs on the 412-4221:
Ext length 13.01" Comp. Length 9.49" Travel 3.52" Spring Rate 140/200

Progressive also specs a 416 (Air Shock) for the Valk, model 416-1627
Specs on the 416-1627:
Ext length 12.92" Comp. Length 9.57" Travel 3.35" Spring Rate 125/180
(I'm not sure what the spring rate refers to on the air shock, possibly the effective rate at the low and high pressure settings.)

What I take away from these numbers is:
1) Shock travel should be in the 3.25-3.5" range.
2) Standard spring rate should be around 120/170, HD around 140/200.

Whether or not I'm correct in my assumption I went looking for 444s with those specs.
The closest I could find:
444-4213:
Ext length 13.00" Comp. Length 9.81" Travel 3.19" Spring Rate 120/170
Oddly, the 444-4218 appears to have identical specs.
444-4221:
Ext length 13.00" Comp. Length 9.81" Travel 3.19" Spring Rate 140/200

There are a number of other 13" 444s that use either the 120/170 or 140/200 springs but they all have less travel.
For my weight (150-160) I ordered the 444-4213s, if my wife starts riding with me more I may have to change things down the road.

I'll be installing the shocks next week, I'm curious to see how much of the 120 rate coils are consumed with preload once I have the sag set correctly.

An additional note: If you're thinking about lowering the bike with 12.5 or 12" shocks I suggest you pay attention to the compressed length. In that case you would want less overall shock travel.

Good luck.

[Jess from VA]

Thanks for the good homework.   

[RDKLL]

Awesome write up and great information...I have the 444-4230 in 11.5" with 03-1317 springs that have  270/315. Is it safe to assume that the higher spring rate is to limit travel. And to assume a similar compressed length of about 9.5" for a total travel of approximately 2"
They ride great on the bobber set at the softest (single reference mark)

[Leathel]

While shock travel and spring weight are all important info, the different styles of valving in the shock makes a huge difference too, my last bike I tried the 412 and 444, with the 412 having longer travel, but sharp hard bumps the 412 would bottom out harshly with the same preload, or have a stiffer ride where it wouldn't bottom out, where as if the 444 would get away with the lighter setting as the shock valving would slow the shock enough on shear impacts as to not bottom out  (on harsh bumps)


I have fitted another brand on the valk with damper adjustments but they are a little on the stiff side riding solo, I have them backed right off to get the sag near right, great with 2 up, not got the spring rates infront of me but I will likely pass them to a mate to use on his heavier bike and get some more....not sure which ones yet.

[Itinifni]

RDKLL

As far as the higher spring rate limiting travel yes and no. Carrying a given weight over a given bump at a given speed a spring with a higher rate will compress less thus limiting travel.
I doubt any shocks, at least any I would want would use the coils binding to limit travel though, there's usual some sort of rubber rebound damper built in.

Interesting, that the 444-4230s work out as a good HD shock on the Valk, the specified 11.5" HD shock for the Valk is 412-4230. I wish the conversion was always that easy.

 As Leathel mentioned, the shock is a complicated piece of equipment, spring rate, travel, damping (both compression and rebound) all figure into the equation.

[RDKLL]

I called Progressive, or more specifically, speedaddicts, the authorized Progressive agent that I bought them from said that the application was not specifically stated for the Valkyrie because of the possibility of limited clearance to make adjustments

[Jess from VA]

I called Progressive, or more specifically, speedaddicts, the authorized Progressive agent that I bought them from said that the application was not specifically stated for the Valkyrie because of the possibility of limited clearance to make adjustments

I find it interesting that progressive officially has no 444 listed for Valk.

Especially when hundreds of us had/have (now aging) 440s with a lifetime warranty.  Progressive will no longer repair 440s (all under warranty), and say their 444s do not fit valk.  I know a few of you said they gave 444s in warranty replacement of 440s, but that was not what they told me. 

I have not continued this inquiry with them as I still have two sets of 440s working fine (for now), but my third set is blown up and leaking in it's original box. (and I want the warranty honored) 

[Chrisj CMA]

I took this brand new 412HD 11.5" set off the black bike and put on my spare IS stockers.  I cant seem to understand why so many continue to use these when they most certainly will leak sooner or later.  I did like the lowered thing, but I like IS shocks too.

[hubcapsc]

brand new 412HD 11.5"

Those would be an improvement for someone whose height makes
for tough stops, but other than that an 11 and a half inch set of
412s would pretty much be a downgrade. Try a good pair of 440s
or 444s (or Works Performance). My 440s leaked once and got rebuilt.
Maintenance on good shocks is a very small price to pay.

-Mike

[Kunkies]

Regardless of what Progressive or any re-seller will tell you, the 444's DO fit and they are the best shock I've had on my Valk'.  On the right side lower mount, you may need to take a little (and I mean a little) meat of the mounting washer. . . check out this post

http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,66634.0.html

[RDKLL]

...On the right side lower mount, you may need to take a little (and I mean a little) meat of the mounting washer. . .

Would that not be enough for the manufacturer to not list an application? I agree, I love my 11.5 black 444"