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Author Topic: Get out your wallets, global warming is going to cost you.  (Read 20542 times)
stormrider
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Posts: 1147


Kinsey, AL


« on: November 11, 2009, 05:32:11 AM »

Closing Press Briefing, Barcelona Climate Change Talks 2009powered by Aeva


Here's the link to the webpage it was posted on. Believe what you want but he just told you that the UN will dictate the outcome, unless our representative to the conference doesn't sign, which is highly unlikely.

http://unfccc.int/2860.php
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Freedom will ultimately cost more than we care to pay but will be worth every drop of blood to those who follow and cherrish it.
x
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Posts: 873

0


« Reply #1 on: November 11, 2009, 06:02:58 AM »

Failure to do something will cost even bigger... but the shortsighted amongst us can't seem to figure that out.

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Airetime
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Posts: 156


U Never See a Valk Parked @ a Psychiatrist Office

Anacortes, WA


« Reply #2 on: November 11, 2009, 06:35:20 AM »

Closing Press Briefing, Barcelona Climate Change Talks 2009

Here's the link to the webpage it was posted on. Believe what you want but he just told you that the UN will dictate the outcome, unless our representative to the conference doesn't sign, which is highly unlikely.

http://unfccc.int/2860.php
Unfortunately, you are correct. I was once told that IF you are told a lie long enough, it becomes the truth and that seams to be more relevant today than ever before.  tickedoff If you really do the research and not just believe the headlines, you find out that there is no reason to panic and those who rant about the sky falling have good intentions but most are misinformed or misled. Mother nature has handled more than mankind has thrown out at her and will continue to in the future. Contrary to what Hollywood wants you to believe, no one has conclusive evidence on the subject. There, that ought to be enough to rattle the well intentioned out there, time to close the wallet and bring back Common Sense  Shocked
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PAVALKER
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Posts: 4435


Retired Navy 22YOS, 2014 Valkyrie , VRCC# 27213

Pittsburgh, Pa


« Reply #3 on: November 11, 2009, 06:55:12 AM »

The Sky Is Falling .....The Sky Is Falling....  Or is it just some trying to justify their existence and make a living out of nothing..... coolsmiley   
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John                           
stormrider
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Posts: 1147


Kinsey, AL


« Reply #4 on: November 11, 2009, 06:57:19 AM »

Failure to do something will cost even bigger... but the shortsighted amongst us can't seem to figure that out.



So Strong, you're all for the UN dictating what we should do? BTW, according to the Bible it's all gonna burn up anyway. I guess you got a problem with that too. And you call me shortsighted. Name calling doesn't scare me at all you big bully. I came across your kind in high school, always thought they were right. Name calling is all they had to use to make up for their lack of self confidence.
Saw a program on the flooding in Bangladesh a couple weeks ago. They were talking this same crap. The UN wants America and others to be responsible and help relocate those affected to America and other responsible countries. It's called using common sense, use birth control and don't build in a flood plain. So, why don't you get out your wallet and pay my share for me. I don't want to give em a dime.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2009, 07:02:35 AM by stormrider » Logged

Freedom will ultimately cost more than we care to pay but will be worth every drop of blood to those who follow and cherrish it.
Puffs Daddy
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Posts: 265


« Reply #5 on: November 11, 2009, 07:08:56 AM »

I find it amusing that the global warming denier crowd doesn't hesitate to believe that literally thousands of scientists are engaged in some sort of vast conspiracy to push a particular agenda but are so unwilling to entertain the notion that the various "deniers" share a common agenda to avoid paying the external costs of current energy policy.

For those interested in the actual science that underlies concerns over global warming and the literally indisputable links to human activity, try the website below. Be warned, however. Understanding the real controversies associated with climate change requires more than a simplistic conspiracy theory.

http://www.realclimate.org/

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stormrider
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Posts: 1147


Kinsey, AL


« Reply #6 on: November 11, 2009, 07:19:34 AM »

I find it amusing that the global warming denier crowd doesn't hesitate to believe that literally thousands of scientists are engaged in some sort of vast conspiracy to push a particular agenda but are so unwilling to entertain the notion that the various "deniers" share a common agenda to avoid paying the external costs of current energy policy.

For those interested in the actual science that underlies concerns over global warming and the literally indisputable links to human activity, try the website below. Be warned, however. Understanding the real controversies associated with climate change requires more than a simplistic conspiracy theory.

http://www.realclimate.org/




I guess you don't have all the facts. Simple is as simple does. Puff it up for me Daddy.
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Freedom will ultimately cost more than we care to pay but will be worth every drop of blood to those who follow and cherrish it.
bigvalkriefan
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Posts: 407


On the green monster

South Florida


« Reply #7 on: November 11, 2009, 07:28:31 AM »

Failure to do something will cost even bigger... but the shortsighted amongst us can't seem to figure that out.


Keep believing that SE. Its the sheep like you who fuel the flame. There as as many scientists who dispute global warming as those who believe it. But they must be "shortsighted". Oh, by the way, when are you moving back to America?
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.....say to those with fearful hearts, "Be strong, do not fear; your God will come, he will come with vengeance; with divine retribution he will come to save you."
Isaiah 35:4

I know who wins in the end.
Jeff K
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Posts: 3071


« Reply #8 on: November 11, 2009, 07:32:07 AM »

And as the climate makes it's natural swing back to "normal" shouts of praise will ring out from the hill tops about how our green efforts have made vast improvements!! 2funny
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bigvalkriefan
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Posts: 407


On the green monster

South Florida


« Reply #9 on: November 11, 2009, 07:42:40 AM »

And as the climate makes it's natural swing back to "normal" shouts of praise will ring out from the hill tops about how our green efforts have made vast improvements!! 2funny

AMEN BROTHER! cooldude
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.....say to those with fearful hearts, "Be strong, do not fear; your God will come, he will come with vengeance; with divine retribution he will come to save you."
Isaiah 35:4

I know who wins in the end.
Mikey
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Posts: 427


Winona, MN


WWW
« Reply #10 on: November 11, 2009, 07:50:39 AM »

I find it amusing that there are so many people out there who think that anything that they are going to do right now is going to have an effect on something as large as our ozone layer. I will keep driving my truck, riding my valkyrie, and living the same as I always have.
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Remember folks, street lights timed for 35 mph are also timed for 70 mph
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Puffs Daddy
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Posts: 265


« Reply #11 on: November 11, 2009, 07:51:45 AM »

Failure to do something will cost even bigger... but the shortsighted amongst us can't seem to figure that out.


Keep believing that SE. Its the sheep like you who fuel the flame. There as as many scientists who dispute global warming as those who believe it. But they must be "shortsighted". Oh, by the way, when are you moving back to America?

Care to cite actual statistics to back up such a ridiculous statement? Thought not.
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Mikey
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Posts: 427


Winona, MN


WWW
« Reply #12 on: November 11, 2009, 07:55:45 AM »

Puffs Daddy, you need to learn to use Google. It works for everything. Just type in "How Many Scientists Refute Global Warming", and you'll find a whole lot of articles on people who disagree with you  Wink
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Remember folks, street lights timed for 35 mph are also timed for 70 mph
VRCC# 30782
PAVALKER
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Posts: 4435


Retired Navy 22YOS, 2014 Valkyrie , VRCC# 27213

Pittsburgh, Pa


« Reply #13 on: November 11, 2009, 07:58:10 AM »

Failure to do something will cost even bigger... but the shortsighted amongst us can't seem to figure that out.



Keep believing that SE. Its the sheep like you who fuel the flame. There as as many scientists who dispute global warming as those who believe it. But they must be "shortsighted". Oh, by the way, when are you moving back to America?


Care to cite actual statistics to back up such a ridiculous statement? Thought not.


Just Google it man....    
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_scientists_opposing_the_mainstream_scientific_assessment_of_global_warming

http://www.tulsabeacon.com/?p=462
« Last Edit: November 11, 2009, 07:59:51 AM by PAVALKER » Logged

John                           
Puffs Daddy
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Posts: 265


« Reply #14 on: November 11, 2009, 08:00:57 AM »

I find it amusing that there are so many people out there who think that anything that they are going to do right now is going to have an effect on something as large as our ozone layer. I will keep driving my truck, riding my valkyrie, and living the same as I always have.


That, of course, is nonsense. The banning of CFC's has, in fact, had significant impact on reducing the depletion of the ozone layer at the poles.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ozone_depletion
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Puffs Daddy
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Posts: 265


« Reply #15 on: November 11, 2009, 08:02:02 AM »

Puffs Daddy, you need to learn to use Google. It works for everything. Just type in "How Many Scientists Refute Global Warming", and you'll find a whole lot of articles on people who disagree with you  Wink


"A whole lot of people" does not constitute half of the world's climate scientists.

http://scienceblogs.com/illconsidered/2006/02/global-warming-is-just-hoax.php
« Last Edit: November 11, 2009, 08:06:52 AM by Puffs Daddy » Logged
bigvalkriefan
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*****
Posts: 407


On the green monster

South Florida


« Reply #16 on: November 11, 2009, 08:06:45 AM »

Failure to do something will cost even bigger... but the shortsighted amongst us can't seem to figure that out.



Keep believing that SE. Its the sheep like you who fuel the flame. There as as many scientists who dispute global warming as those who believe it. But they must be "shortsighted". Oh, by the way, when are you moving back to America?


Care to cite actual statistics to back up such a ridiculous statement? Thought not.









Wow, that was hard. Does 31000 scientists mean anything?

http://www.oism.org/pproject/s33p1845.htm

http://www.petitionproject.org/
« Last Edit: November 11, 2009, 08:10:00 AM by bigvalkriefan » Logged

.....say to those with fearful hearts, "Be strong, do not fear; your God will come, he will come with vengeance; with divine retribution he will come to save you."
Isaiah 35:4

I know who wins in the end.
Puffs Daddy
Member
*****
Posts: 265


« Reply #17 on: November 11, 2009, 08:10:07 AM »

Failure to do something will cost even bigger... but the shortsighted amongst us can't seem to figure that out.



Keep believing that SE. Its the sheep like you who fuel the flame. There as as many scientists who dispute global warming as those who believe it. But they must be "shortsighted". Oh, by the way, when are you moving back to America?


Care to cite actual statistics to back up such a ridiculous statement? Thought not.









Wow, that was hard. Does 31000 scientists mean anything?

http://www.oism.org/pproject/s33p1845.htm



Not much, no. Considering that only about 9000 of the 31,000 signers even claim to have PhD's in any field at all and that a tiny fraction of those are scientists with any expertise in climate sciences, it's about as reliable as a straw poll that gave Ron Paul the GOP nomination in 2008.
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bigvalkriefan
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Posts: 407


On the green monster

South Florida


« Reply #18 on: November 11, 2009, 08:19:31 AM »

Of course. "Only" 9000 have PhD's. So you have to have a PhD or be a "climate" scientist in order to be credible. I'm glad we don't use that criteria for every argument. Come on Puffs, there just is not enough evidence to even support that our planet is warming at an unnatural rate. Can't you even entertain the idea that this is about power, control and the elites getting richer? Whatever happened to the global cooling scare of the 70's? The climate scientists must not have had PhD's back then.
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.....say to those with fearful hearts, "Be strong, do not fear; your God will come, he will come with vengeance; with divine retribution he will come to save you."
Isaiah 35:4

I know who wins in the end.
Puffs Daddy
Member
*****
Posts: 265


« Reply #19 on: November 11, 2009, 08:29:18 AM »

Of course. "Only" 9000 have PhD's. So you have to have a PhD or be a "climate" scientist in order to be credible. I'm glad we don't use that criteria for every argument. Come on Puffs, there just is not enough evidence to even support that our planet is warming at an unnatural rate. Can't you even entertain the idea that this is about power, control and the elites getting richer? Whatever happened to the global cooling scare of the 70's? The climate scientists must not have had PhD's back then.


I tend to trust verifiable Ph.D's with concentrations in areas associated with climate on topics like "climate." I also tend to trust MD's when the question concerns medical issues and engineers when the topic is, you know, engineering. On issues like movie criticism I'm somewhat more lenient in my standards. Apparently, you're not.

http://scienceblogs.com/illconsidered/2006/05/there-is-no-evidence.php
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Mikey
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Posts: 427


Winona, MN


WWW
« Reply #20 on: November 11, 2009, 08:33:51 AM »

Puff's, Your sources are just as "unreliable" as anything that you are trying to dispute. Just because someone else writes an article and publishes it online and YOU agree with it doesn't make it true, unbiased, etc. But, if that's true, and you do truely care about global warming, and your carbon emissions, maybe you should ditch the Valk, and ride a scooter that gets 100 mpg. Otherwise, you're a hypocrite.
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Remember folks, street lights timed for 35 mph are also timed for 70 mph
VRCC# 30782
Black Dog
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Posts: 2606


VRCC # 7111

Merton Wisconsin 53029


« Reply #21 on: November 11, 2009, 08:53:12 AM »

Statistics show that global temps fell between 1940 - 1980, and the 'Next Ice Age' was predicted back in the 70's...

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn11639-climate-myths-the-cooling-after-1940-shows-co2-does-not-cause-warming.html

Now we are being warned of Global Warming...

Our time on the third rock from the sun, is just a 'blip' on the screen, when you look at the big picture.  We have recorded detailed weather history for maybe 150 years, and only the past 20 - 30 years with accurate and dependable insturments.

Sure, we should do what we can to keep our planet in the best shape possible, but it would be nice to be able to have a temperature graph, showing highs and lows, for say maybe the past 10,000 years, using the accurate insturments now available...  A rise of a few degrees in a decade, or a fall of a few degrees in a decade, is just the natural roller coaster...  I believe it's been going on for far longer than man has been around.

Black Dog
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Just when the highway straightened out for a mile
And I was thinkin' I'd just cruise for a while
A fork in the road brought a new episode
Don't you know...

Conform, go crazy, or ride a motorcycle...

Puffs Daddy
Member
*****
Posts: 265


« Reply #22 on: November 11, 2009, 08:56:23 AM »

Puff's, Your sources are just as "unreliable" as anything that you are trying to dispute. Just because someone else writes an article and publishes it online and YOU agree with it doesn't make it true, unbiased, etc. But, if that's true, and you do truely care about global warming, and your carbon emissions, maybe you should ditch the Valk, and ride a scooter that gets 100 mpg. Otherwise, you're a hypocrite.

The point, of course, is that all "someones" aren't equal in terms of reliability. Of course, it's possible that the vast majority of the world's scientists who see human caused global climate change are wrong. Somewhat more likely is that they're right. So what to do?

Well, if they're right starting sooner to do something about it is better than waiting. If they're wrong, then various proposals to reduce human beings' carbon footprint will only (a) reduce US dependence on mideast oil; (b) conserve natural resources; (c) reduce pollution; (d) preserve choices for our children and grandchildren. What terrible outcomes.

As for my personal carbon footprint, one does what one can do. In return for the use of my Valk I drive a hybrid, use a bicycle for short jaunts, purchase green energy through my local utility, control the use of electricity in my home, and do a number of other things to reduce waste of natural resources. When you do the same, feel free to lecture me.
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Puffs Daddy
Member
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Posts: 265


« Reply #23 on: November 11, 2009, 09:03:05 AM »

Statistics show that global temps fell between 1940 - 1980, and the 'Next Ice Age' was predicted back in the 70's...

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn11639-climate-myths-the-cooling-after-1940-shows-co2-does-not-cause-warming.html

Now we are being warned of Global Warming...

Our time on the third rock from the sun, is just a 'blip' on the screen, when you look at the big picture.  We have recorded detailed weather history for maybe 150 years, and only the past 20 - 30 years with accurate and dependable insturments.

Sure, we should do what we can to keep our planet in the best shape possible, but it would be nice to be able to have a temperature graph, showing highs and lows, for say maybe the past 10,000 years, using the accurate insturments now available...  A rise of a few degrees in a decade, or a fall of a few degrees in a decade, is just the natural roller coaster...  I believe it's been going on for far longer than man has been around.

Black Dog


Wrong again.

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn11643
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RoadKill
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Posts: 2591


Manhattan KS


« Reply #24 on: November 11, 2009, 09:18:14 AM »

I'm NO global weather scientist BUT I did sleep at a holiday in express last night so my upcomming Nobel prize should speak for it's self.
The fix for lobal warming,whether actually happening or not, Is to throw money at it. And I dont mean just american middle class monies either! The wealthy and the educated who are all better than you( and lots smarter too ) will pay the same! All our most intelligent and honest U.N. officials will collect from every one as they see fit. This is NOT wealth redistribution because NO ONE will profit a single dime and the ONLY motivation is to save our planet from melting right out from under all the hardworking tax paying voters! We are doing it for YOU ! So pay up suckers!  uglystupid2 And then to maintain the planet and keep it free from damage you must all kill your neighbors,move into FEMA camps,kill your bunkmate and then enslave any one left to do everything for you so you dont have to worry about polluting yourself and with the decimation of the population you have single handedly accomplished there will be MUCH less global warming! What are we waiting for ? the sky will fall any minute!   Cry
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fstsix
Guest
« Reply #25 on: November 11, 2009, 04:16:43 PM »

Of course. "Only" 9000 have PhD's. So you have to have a PhD or be a "climate" scientist in order to be credible. I'm glad we don't use that criteria for every argument. Come on Puffs, there just is not enough evidence to even support that our planet is warming at an unnatural rate. Can't you even entertain the idea that this is about power, control and the elites getting richer? Whatever happened to the global cooling scare of the 70's? The climate scientists must not have had PhD's back then.


I tend to trust verifiable Ph.D's with concentrations in areas associated with climate on topics like "climate." I also tend to trust MD's when the question concerns medical issues and engineers when the topic is, you know, engineering. On issues like movie criticism I'm somewhat more lenient in my standards. Apparently, you're not.

http://scienceblogs.com/illconsidered/2006/05/there-is-no-evidence.php
Puff i mean Scammer same State same job (whatever) Pretty deep stuff here let see the first PHD Mauri Pelto is a orphan on WIKi pretty deep, now that is just the first on your experts i tried to scroll down but MIA.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mauri_S._Pelto So to be fair i did WIKI on PHD last week of Walter Martin http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Ralston_Martin Just a little more dept. This was on the board for the Muslim shooting reply fort Hood.Just a little thought.Try a little harder.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2009, 07:07:40 PM by fstsix » Logged
Airetime
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Posts: 156


U Never See a Valk Parked @ a Psychiatrist Office

Anacortes, WA


« Reply #26 on: November 11, 2009, 05:21:44 PM »

Failure to do something will cost even bigger... but the shortsighted amongst us can't seem to figure that out.



Keep believing that SE. Its the sheep like you who fuel the flame. There as as many scientists who dispute global warming as those who believe it. But they must be "shortsighted". Oh, by the way, when are you moving back to America?


Care to cite actual statistics to back up such a ridiculous statement? Thought not.




.




Wow, that was hard. Does 31000 scientists mean anything?

http://www.oism.org/pproject/s33p1845.htm



Not much, no. Considering that only about 9000 of the 31,000 signers even claim to have PhD's in any field at all and that a tiny fraction of those are scientists with any expertise in climate sciences, it's about as reliable as a straw poll that gave Ron Paul the GOP nomination in 2008.

Well here is a little nighttime reading for you...
Cooler Heads Needed on Warming
By George Will
So, "the debate is over." Time magazine says so. Last week's cover story exhorted readers to "Be Worried. Be Very Worried," and ABC News concurred in several stories. So did Montana's governor, speaking on ABC. And there was polling about global warming, gathered by Time and ABC in collaboration.
Eighty-five percent of Americans say warming is probably happening, and 62 percent say it threatens them personally. The National Academy of Sciences says the rise in the Earth's surface temperature has been about one degree Fahrenheit in the past century. Did 85 percent of Americans notice? Of course not. They got their anxiety from journalism calculated to produce it. Never mind that one degree might be the margin of error when measuring the planet's temperature. To take a person's temperature, you put a thermometer in an orifice or under an arm. Taking the temperature of our churning planet, with its tectonic plates sliding around over a molten core, involves limited precision.
Why have Americans been dilatory about becoming as worried -- as very worried -- as Time and ABC think proper? An article on ABC's Web site wonders ominously, "Was Confusion Over Global Warming a Con Job?"
It suggests there has been a misinformation campaign implying that scientists might not be unanimous, a campaign by -- how did you guess? -- big oil. And the coal industry. But speaking of coal . . .
Recently, Montana Gov. Brian Schweitzer flew with ABC's George Stephanopoulos over Glacier National Park's receding glaciers. But Schweitzer offered hope: Everyone, buy Montana coal. New technologies can, he said, burn it while removing carbon causes of global warming.
Stephanopoulos noted that such technologies are at least four years away and "all the scientists" say something must be done "right now." Schweitzer, quickly recovering from hopefulness and returning to the "be worried, be very worried" message, said "it's even more critical than that" because China and India are going to "put more carbon dioxide in the atmosphere with conventional coal-fired generators than all of the rest of the planet has during the last 150 years."
That is one reason why the Clinton administration never submitted the Kyoto accord on global warming for Senate ratification. In 1997 the Senate voted 95 to 0 that the accord would disproportionately burden America while being too permissive toward major polluters that are America's trade competitors.
While worrying about Montana's receding glaciers, Schweitzer, who is 50, should also worry about the fact that when he was 20 he was told to be worried, very worried, about global cooling. Science magazine (Dec. 10, 1976) warned of "extensive Northern Hemisphere glaciation." Science Digest (February 1973) reported that "the world's climatologists are agreed" that we must "prepare for the next ice age." The Christian Science Monitor ("Warning: Earth's Climate is Changing Faster Than Even Experts Expect," Aug. 27, 1974) reported that glaciers "have begun to advance," "growing seasons in England and Scandinavia are getting shorter" and "the North Atlantic is cooling down about as fast as an ocean can cool." Newsweek agreed ("The Cooling World," April 28, 1975) that meteorologists "are almost unanimous" that catastrophic famines might result from the global cooling that the New York Times (Sept. 14, 1975) said "may mark the return to another ice age." The Times (May 21, 1975) also said "a major cooling of the climate is widely considered inevitable" now that it is "well established" that the Northern Hemisphere's climate "has been getting cooler since about 1950."
In fact, the Earth is always experiencing either warming or cooling. But suppose the scientists and their journalistic conduits, who today say they were so spectacularly wrong so recently, are now correct. Suppose the Earth is warming and suppose the warming is caused by human activity. Are we sure there will be proportionate benefits from whatever climate change can be purchased at the cost of slowing economic growth and spending trillions? Are we sure the consequences of climate change -- remember, a thick sheet of ice once covered the Midwest -- must be bad? Or has the science-journalism complex decided that debate about these questions, too, is "over"?
About the mystery that vexes ABC -- Why have Americans been slow to get in lock step concerning global warming? -- perhaps the "problem" is not big oil or big coal, both of which have discovered there is big money to be made from tax breaks and other subsidies justified in the name of combating carbon.
Perhaps the problem is big crusading journalism.
georgewill@washpost.com
(c) 2006, Washington Post Writers Group
Page Printed from: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2006/04/cooler_heads_needed_on_warming.html at December 23, 2007 - 06:13:29 AM PST


Forget global warming: Welcome to the new Ice Age
Lorne Gunter, National Post Published: Monday, February 25, 2008

Snow cover over North America and much of Siberia, Mongolia and China is greater than at any time since 1966.
The U.S. National Climatic Data Center (NCDC) reported that many American cities and towns suffered record cold temperatures in January and early February. According to the NCDC, the average temperature in January "was -0.3 F cooler than the 1901-2000 (20th century) average."
China is surviving its most brutal winter in a century. Temperatures in the normally balmy south were so low for so long that some middle-sized cities went days and even weeks without electricity because once power lines had toppled it was too cold or too icy to repair them.
There have been so many snow and ice storms in Ontario and Quebec in the past two months that the real estate market has felt the pinch as home buyers have stayed home rather than venturing out looking for new houses.
In just the first two weeks of February, Toronto received 70 cm of snow, smashing the record of 66.6 cm for the entire month set back in the pre-SUV, pre-Kyoto, pre-carbon footprint days of 1950.
And remember the Arctic Sea ice? The ice we were told so hysterically last fall had melted to its "lowest levels on record? Never mind that those records only date back as far as 1972 and that there is anthropological and geological evidence of much greater melts in the past.
The ice is back.
Gilles Langis, a senior forecaster with the Canadian Ice Service in Ottawa, says the Arctic winter has been so severe the ice has not only recovered, it is actually 10 to 20 cm thicker in many places than at this time last year.
OK, so one winter does not a climate make. It would be premature to claim an Ice Age is looming just because we have had one of our most brutal winters in decades.
But if environmentalists and environment reporters can run around shrieking about the manmade destruction of the natural order every time a robin shows up on Georgian Bay two weeks early, then it is at least fair game to use this winter's weather stories to wonder whether the alarmist are being a tad premature.
And it's not just anecdotal evidence that is piling up against the climate-change dogma.
According to Robert Toggweiler of the Geophysical Fluid Dynamics Laboratory at Princeton University and Joellen Russell, assistant professor of biogeochemical dynamics at the University of Arizona -- two prominent climate modellers -- the computer models that show polar ice-melt cooling the oceans, stopping the circulation of warm equatorial water to northern latitudes and triggering another Ice Age (a la the movie The Day After Tomorrow) are all wrong.
"We missed what was right in front of our eyes," says Prof. Russell. It's not ice melt but rather wind circulation that drives ocean currents northward from the tropics. Climate models until now have not properly accounted for the wind's effects on ocean circulation, so researchers have compensated by over-emphasizing the role of manmade warming on polar ice melt.
But when Profs. Toggweiler and Russell rejigged their model to include the 40-year cycle of winds away from the equator (then back towards it again), the role of ocean currents bringing warm southern waters to the north was obvious in the current Arctic warming.
Last month, Oleg Sorokhtin, a fellow of the Russian Academy of Natural Sciences, shrugged off manmade climate change as "a drop in the bucket." Showing that solar activity has entered an inactive phase, Prof. Sorokhtin advised people to "stock up on fur coats."
He is not alone. Kenneth Tapping of our own National Research Council, who oversees a giant radio telescope focused on the sun, is convinced we are in for a long period of severely cold weather if sunspot activity does not pick up soon.
The last time the sun was this inactive, Earth suffered the Little Ice Age that lasted about five centuries and ended in 1850. Crops failed through killer frosts and drought. Famine, plague and war were widespread. Harbours froze, so did rivers, and trade ceased.
It's way too early to claim the same is about to happen again, but then it's way too early for the hysteria of the global warmers, too.
lgunter@shaw.ca

Majority Press Release
Contact:  MARC MORANO (202) 224-5762 (marc_morano@epw.senate.gov), MATT DEMPSEY (202) 224-9797 (matthew_dempsey@epw.senate.gov)
 
Renowned Scientist Defects From Belief in Global Warming – Caps Year of Vindication for Skeptics
 
October 17, 2006
Washington DC - One of the most decorated French geophysicists has converted from a believer in manmade catastrophic global warming to a climate skeptic. This latest defector from the global warming camp caps a year in which numerous scientific studies have bolstered the claims of climate skeptics. Scientific studies that debunk the dire predictions of human-caused global warming have continued to accumulate and many believe the new science is shattering the media-promoted scientific “consensus” on climate alarmism.
Claude Allegre, a former government official and an active member of France’s Socialist Party, wrote an editorial on September 21, 2006 in the French newspaper L'Express titled “The Snows of Kilimanjaro” (For English Translation, click here: http://epw.senate.gov/fact.cfm?party=rep&id=264835 ) detailing his newfound skepticism about manmade global warming. See: http://www.lexpress.fr/idees/tribunes/dossier/allegre/dossier.asp?ida=451670 Allegre wrote that the “cause of climate change remains unknown” and pointed out that Kilimanjaro is not losing snow due to global warming, but to local land use and precipitation changes. Allegre also pointed out that studies show that Antarctic snowfall rate has been stable over the past 30 years and the continent is actually gaining ice.
“Following the month of August experienced by the northern half of France, the prophets of doom of global warming will have a lot on their plate in order to make our fellow countrymen swallow their certitudes,” Allegre wrote. He also accused proponents of manmade catastrophic global warming of being motivated by money, noting that “the ecology of helpless protesting has become a very lucrative business for some people!”
Allegre, a member of both the French and U.S. Academy of Sciences, had previously expressed concern about manmade global warming. "By burning fossil fuels, man enhanced the concentration of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere which has raised the global mean temperature by half a degree in the last century," Allegre wrote 20 years ago. In addition, Allegre was one of 1500 scientists who signed a November 18, 1992 letter titled “World Scientists' Warning to Humanity” in which the scientists warned that global warming’s “potential risks are very great.” See: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~sai/sciwarn.html
Allegre has authored more than 100 scientific articles, written 11 books and received numerous scientific awards including the Goldschmidt Medal from the Geochemical Society of the United States.
Allegre's conversion to a climate skeptic comes at a time when global warming alarmists have insisted that there is a “consensus” about manmade global warming. Proponents of global warming have ratcheted up the level of rhetoric on climate skeptics recently. An environmental magazine in September called for Nuremberg-style trials for global warming skeptics and CBS News “60 Minutes” correspondent Scott Pelley compared skeptics to “Holocaust deniers.” See: http://www.epw.senate.gov/fact.cfm?party=rep&id=264568 & http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2006/03/22/publiceye/entry1431768.shtml In addition, former Vice President Al Gore has repeatedly referred to skeptics as "global warming deniers."
This increase in rhetorical flourish comes at a time when new climate science research continues to unravel the global warming alarmists’ computer model predictions of future climatic doom and vindicate skeptics.
60 Scientists Debunk Global Warming Fears
Earlier this year, a group of prominent scientists came forward to question the so-called “consensus” that the Earth faces a “climate emergency.” On April 6, 2006, 60 scientists wrote a letter to the Canadian Prime Minister asserting that the science is deteriorating from underneath global warming alarmists.
“Observational evidence does not support today's computer climate models, so there is little reason to trust model predictions of the future…Significant [scientific] advances have been made since the [Kyoto] protocol was created, many of which are taking us away from a concern about increasing greenhouse gases. If, back in the mid-1990s, we knew what we know today about climate, Kyoto would almost certainly not exist, because we would have concluded it was not necessary,” the 60 scientists wrote. See: http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/financialpost/story.html?id=3711460e-bd5a-475d-a6be-4db87559d605
“It was only 30 years ago that many of today's global-warming alarmists were telling us that the world was in the midst of a global-cooling catastrophe. But the science continued to evolve, and still does, even though so many choose to ignore it when it does not fit with predetermined political agendas,” the 60 scientists concluded.
'Climate Change is Nothing New'
In addition, an October 16, 2006 Washington Post article titled “Climate Change is Nothing New” echoed the sentiments of the 60 scientists as it detailed a new study of the earth’s climate history. The Washington Post article by reporter Christopher Lee noted that Indiana University geologist Simon Brassell found climate change occurred during the age of dinosaurs and quoted Brassell questioning the accuracy of computer climate model predictions.
“If there are big, inherent fluctuations in the system, as paleoclimate studies are showing, it could make determining the Earth’s climatic future even harder than it is,” Brassell said. See: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/15/AR2006101500672.html
Global Cooling on the Horizon?
In August, Khabibullo Abdusamatov, a scientist who heads the space research sector for the Russian Academy of Sciences, predicted long-term global cooling may be on the horizon due to a projected decrease in the sun’s output. See: http://en.rian.ru/russia/20060825/53143686.html
Sun’s Contribution to Warming
There have also been recent findings in peer-reviewed literature over the last few years showing that the Antarctic is getting colder and the ice is growing and a new 2006 study in Geophysical Research Letters found that the sun was responsible for up to 50% of 20th-century warming. See: http://www.agu.org/pubs/crossref/2006/2006GL027142.shtml
“Global Warming” Stopped in 1998
Paleoclimate scientist Bob Carter has noted that there is indeed a problem with global warming – it stopped in 1998. “According to official temperature records of the Climate Research Unit at the University of East Anglia in the UK, the global average temperature did not increase between 1998-2005. “…this eight-year period of temperature stasis did coincide with society's continued power station and SUV-inspired pumping of yet more carbon dioxide into the atmosphere,” noted paleoclimate researcher and geologist Bob Carter of James Cook University in Australia in an April 2006 article titled “There is a problem with global warming... it stopped in 1998.” See: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2006/04/09/do0907.xml&sSheet=/news/2006/04/09/ixworld.html
“Global?" Warming Misnamed - Southern Hemisphere Not Warming
In addition, new NASA satellite tropospheric temperature data reveals that the Southern Hemisphere has not warmed in the past 25 years contrary to “global warming theory” and modeling. This new Southern Hemisphere data raises the specter that the use of the word “global” in “global warming” may not be accurate. A more apt moniker for the past 25 years may be “Northern Hemisphere” warming. See: http://motls.blogspot.com/2006/09/southern-hemisphere-ignores-global.html
Alaska Cooling
According to data released on July 14, 2006 from the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA), the January through June Alaska statewide average temperature was “0.55F (0.30C) cooler than the 1971-2000 average.” See: http://www.publicaffairs.noaa.gov/releases2006/jul06/noaa06-065.html
Oceans Cooling
Another bombshell to hit the global warming alarmists and their speculative climate modeling came in a September article in the Geophysical Research Letters which found that over 20% of the heat gained in the oceans since the mid-1950s was lost in just two years. The former climatologist for the state of Colorado, Roger Pielke, Sr., noted that the sudden cooling of the oceans “certainly indicates that the multi-decadal global climate models have serious issues with their ability to accurately simulate the response of the climate system to human- and natural-climate forcings.“ See: http://climatesci.atmos.colostate.edu/2006/09/
Light Hurricane Season & Early Winter
Despite predictions that 2006 would bring numerous tropical storms, 2006’s surprisingly light hurricane season and the record early start of this year’s winter in many parts of the U.S. have further put a damper on the constant doomsaying of the global warming alarmists and their media allies.
Droughts Less Frequent
Other new studies have debunked many of the dubious claims made by the global warming alarmists. For example, the claim that droughts would be more frequent, severe and wide ranging during global warming, has now being exposed as fallacious. A new paper in Geophysical Research Letters authored by Konstantinos Andreadis and Dennis Lettenmaier finds droughts in the U.S. becoming “shorter, less frequent and cover a small portion of the country over the last century.” http://www.worldclimatereport.com/index.php/2006/10/13/where-are-the-droughts
Global Warming Will Not Lead to Next Ice Age
Furthermore, recent research has shown that fears that global warming could lead to the next ice age, as promoted in the 2004 Hollywood movie “The Day After Tomorrow” are also unsupportable. A 2005 media hyped study “claimed to have found a 30 percent slowdown in the thermohaline circulation, the results are published in the very prestigious Nature magazine, and the story was carried breathlessly by the media in outlets around the world…Less than a year later, two different research teams present convincing evidence [ in Geophysical Research Letters ] that no slowdown is occurring whatsoever,” according to Virginia State Climatologist Patrick Michaels, editor of the website World Climate Report. See: http://www.worldclimatereport.com/index.php/2006/10/13/overturning-ocean-hype
‘Hockey Stick’ Broken in 2006
The “Hockey Stick” temperature graph’s claim that the 1990’s was the hottest decade of the last 1000 years was found to be unsupportable by the National Academy of Sciences and many independent experts in 2006. See: http://www.epw.senate.gov/pressitem.cfm?party=rep&id=257697
Study Shows Greenland’s Ice Growing
A 2005 study by a scientist named Ola Johannessen and his colleagues showed that the interior of Greenland is gaining ice mass. See: http://www.co2science.org/scripts/CO2ScienceB2C/articles/V8/N44/C1.jsp Also, according to the International Arctic Research Institute, despite all of the media hype, the Arctic was warmer in the 1930’s than today.
Polar Bears Not Going Extinct
Despite Time Magazine and the rest of the media’s unfounded hype, polar bears are not facing a crisis, according to biologist Dr. Mitchell Taylor from the Arctic government of Nunavut. “Of the 13 populations of polar bears in Canada, 11 are stable or increasing in number. They are not going extinct, or even appear to be affected at present,” Taylor wrote on May 1, 2006. See: http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1146433819696&call_pageid=970599119419
Media Darling James Hansen Hypes Alarmism
As all of this new data debunking climate alarmism mounts, the mainstream media chooses to ignore it and instead focus on the dire predictions of the number-one global warming media darling, NASA’s James Hansen. The increasingly alarmist Hansen is featured frequently in the media to bolster sky-is-falling climate scare reports. His recent claim that the Earth is nearing its hottest point in one million years has been challenged by many scientists. See: http://www.co2science.org/scripts/CO2ScienceB2C/articles/V9/N39/EDITB.jsp Hansen’s increasingly frightening climate predictions follow his 2003 concession that the use of “extreme scenarios” was an appropriate tactic to drive the public’s attention to the urgency of global warming. See: http://naturalscience.com/ns/articles/01-16/ns_jeh6.html Hansen also received a $250,000 grant form Teresa Heinz’s Foundation and then subsequently endorsed her husband John Kerry for President and worked closely with Al Gore to promote his movie, “An Inconvenient Truth.” See: http://www.heinzawards.net/speechDetail.asp?speechID=6 & http://www.columbia.edu/~jeh1/dai_complete.pdf
American People Rejecting Global Warming Alarmism
The global warming alarmists may have significantly overplayed their hand in the climate debate. A Los Angeles Times/Bloomberg poll this August found that most Americans do not attribute the cause of any recent severe weather events to global warming, and the portion of Americans who believe that climate change is due to natural variability has increased over 50% in the last five years.
Senator Inhofe Chastises Media For Unscientific & Unprincipled Climate Reporting
Senator James Inhofe (R-Okla.) Chairman of the Environment and Public Works Committee, commented last week on the media’s unfounded global warming hype and some of the recent scientific research that is shattering the so-called “consensus” that human greenhouse gas emissions have doomed the planet.
“The American people are fed up with media for promoting the idea that former Vice President Al Gore represents the scientific ‘consensus’ that SUV’s and the modern American way of life have somehow created a ‘climate emergency’ that only United Nations bureaucrats and wealthy Hollywood liberals can solve. It is the publicity and grant seeking global warming alarmists and their advocates in the media who have finally realized that the only “emergency” confronting them is their rapidly crumbling credibility, audience and bottom line. The global warming alarmists know their science is speculative at best and their desperation grows each day as it becomes more and more obvious that many of the nations that ratified the woeful Kyoto Protocol are failing to comply,” Senator Inhofe said last week. See: http://www.epw.senate.gov/pressitem.cfm?party=rep&id=264616
“The mainstream media needs to follow the money: The further you get from scientists who conduct these alarmist global warming studies, and the further you get from the financial grants and the institutions that they serve the more the climate alarmism fades and the skepticism grows,” Senator Inhofe explained.
Eco-Doomsayers’ Failed Predictions
In a speech on the Senate floor on September 25, 2006, Senator Inhofe pointed out the abject failure of past predictions of ecological disaster made by environmental alarmists.
“The history of the modern environmental movement is chock-full of predictions of doom that never came true. We have all heard the dire predictions about the threat of overpopulation, resource scarcity, mass starvation, and the projected death of our oceans. None of these predictions came true, yet it never stopped the doomsayers from continuing to predict a dire environmental future. The more the eco-doomsayers’ predictions fail, the more the eco-doomsayers predict,” Senator Inhofe said on September 25th. See: http://epw.senate.gov/speechitem.cfm?party=rep&id=263759
Related Links:
For a comprehensive review of the media’s embarrassing 100-year history of alternating between promoting fears of a coming ice age and global warming, see Environment & Public Works Chairman James Inhofe’s September 25, 2006 Senate floor speech debunking the media and climate alarmism. Go to: (epw.senate.gov/speechitem.cfm?party=rep&id=263759)
To read and watch Senator Inhofe on CNN discuss global warming go to: (http://www.epw.senate.gov/pressitem.cfm?party=rep&id=264308 )
To Read all of Senator Inhofe’s Speeches on global warming go to: (http://epw.senate.gov/speeches.cfm?party=rep)
“Inhofe Correct On Global Warming,” by David Deming geophysicist, an adjunct scholar with the Oklahoma Council of Public Affairs (ocpathink.org), and an associate professor of Arts and Sciences at the University of Oklahoma. (http://epw.senate.gov/fact.cfm?party=rep&id=264537)

Global Warming, humans, Carbon Dioxide
Global Warming: The Cold, Hard Facts?
By Timothy Ball
Monday, February 5, 2007
Global Warming, as we think we know it, doesn't exist. And I am not the only one trying to make people open up their eyes and see the truth. But few listen, despite the fact that I was one of the first Canadian Ph.Ds. in Climatology and I have an extensive background in climatology, especially the reconstruction of past climates and the impact of climate change on human history and the human condition. Few listen, even though I have a Ph.D, (Doctor of Science) from the University of London, England and was a climatology professor at the University of Winnipeg. For some reason (actually for many), the World is not listening. Here is why.
What would happen if tomorrow we were told that, after all, the Earth is flat? It would probably be the most important piece of news in the media and would generate a lot of debate. So why is it that when scientists who have studied the Global Warming phenomenon for years say that humans are not the cause nobody listens? Why does no one acknowledge that the Emperor has no clothes on?
Believe it or not, Global Warming is not due to human contribution of Carbon Dioxide (CO2). This in fact is the greatest deception in the history of science. We are wasting time, energy and trillions of dollars while creating unnecessary fear and consternation over an issue with no scientific justification. For example, Environment Canada brags about spending $3.7 billion in the last five years dealing with climate change almost all on propaganda trying to defend an indefensible scientific position while at the same time closing weather stations and failing to meet legislated pollution targets.
No sensible person seeks conflict, especially with governments, but if we don't pursue the truth, we are lost as individuals and as a society. That is why I insist on saying that there is no evidence that we are, or could ever cause global climate change. And, recently, Yuri A. Izrael, Vice President of the United Nations sponsored Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) confirmed this statement. So how has the world come to believe that something is wrong?
Maybe for the same reason we believed, 30 years ago, that global cooling was the biggest threat: a matter of faith. "It is a cold fact: the Global Cooling presents humankind with the most important social, political, and adaptive challenge we have had to deal with for ten thousand years. Your stake in the decisions we make concerning it is of ultimate importance; the survival of ourselves, our children, our species," wrote Lowell Ponte in 1976.
I was as opposed to the threats of impending doom global cooling engendered as I am to the threats made about Global Warming. Let me stress I am not denying the phenomenon has occurred. The world has warmed since 1680, the nadir of a cool period called the Little Ice Age (LIA) that has generally continued to the present. These climate changes are well within natural variability and explained quite easily by changes in the sun. But there is nothing unusual going on.
Since I obtained my doctorate in climatology from the University of London, Queen Mary College, England my career has spanned two climate cycles. Temperatures declined from 1940 to 1980 and in the early 1970's global cooling became the consensus. This proves that consensus is not a scientific fact. By the 1990's temperatures appeared to have reversed and Global Warming became the consensus. It appears I'll witness another cycle before retiring, as the major mechanisms and the global temperature trends now indicate a cooling.
No doubt passive acceptance yields less stress, fewer personal attacks and makes career progress easier. What I have experienced in my personal life during the last years makes me understand why most people choose not to speak out; job security and fear of reprisals. Even in University, where free speech and challenge to prevailing wisdoms are supposedly encouraged, academics remain silent.
I once received a three page letter that my lawyer defined as libellous, from an academic colleague, saying I had no right to say what I was saying, especially in public lectures. Sadly, my experience is that universities are the most dogmatic and oppressive places in our society. This becomes progressively worse as they receive more and more funding from governments that demand a particular viewpoint.
In another instance, I was accused by Canadian environmentalist David Suzuki of being paid by oil companies. That is a lie. Apparently he thinks if the fossil fuel companies pay you have an agenda. So if Greenpeace, Sierra Club or governments pay there is no agenda and only truth and enlightenment?
Personal attacks are difficult and shouldn't occur in a debate in a civilized society. I can only consider them from what they imply. They usually indicate a person or group is losing the debate. In this case, they also indicate how political the entire Global Warming debate has become. Both underline the lack of or even contradictory nature of the evidence.
I am not alone in this journey against the prevalent myth. Several well-known names have also raised their voices. Michael Crichton, the scientist, writer and filmmaker is one of them. In his latest book, "State of Fear" he takes time to explain, often in surprising detail, the flawed science behind Global Warming and other imagined environmental crises.
Another cry in the wildenerness is Richard Lindzen's. He is an atmospheric physicist and a professor of meteorology at MIT, renowned for his research in dynamic meteorology - especially atmospheric waves. He is also a member of the National Academy of Sciences and has held positions at the University of Chicago, Harvard University and MIT. Linzen frequently speaks out against the notion that significant Global Warming is caused by humans. Yet nobody seems to listen.
I think it may be because most people don't understand the scientific method which Thomas Kuhn so skilfully and briefly set out in his book "The Structure of Scientific Revolutions." A scientist makes certain assumptions and then produces a theory which is only as valid as the assumptions. The theory of Global Warming assumes that CO2 is an atmospheric greenhouse gas and as it increases temperatures rise. It was then theorized that since humans were producing more CO2 than before, the temperature would inevitably rise. The theory was accepted before testing had started, and effectively became a law.
As Lindzen said many years ago: "the consensus was reached before the research had even begun." Now, any scientist who dares to question the prevailing wisdom is marginalized and called a sceptic, when in fact they are simply being good scientists. This has reached frightening levels with these scientists now being called climate change denier with all the holocaust connotations of that word. The normal scientific method is effectively being thwarted.
Meanwhile, politicians are being listened to, even though most of them have no knowledge or understanding of science, especially the science of climate and climate change. Hence, they are in no position to question a policy on climate change when it threatens the entire planet. Moreover, using fear and creating hysteria makes it very difficult to make calm rational decisions about issues needing attention.
Until you have challenged the prevailing wisdom you have no idea how nasty people can be. Until you have re-examined any issue in an attempt to find out all the information, you cannot know how much misinformation exists in the supposed age of information.
I was greatly influenced several years ago by Aaron Wildavsky's book "Yes, but is it true?" The author taught political science at a New York University and realized how science was being influenced by and apparently misused by politics. He gave his graduate students an assignment to pursue the science behind a policy generated by a highly publicised environmental concern. To his and their surprise they found there was little scientific evidence, consensus and justification for the policy. You only realize the extent to which Wildavsky's findings occur when you ask the question he posed. Wildavsky's students did it in the safety of academia and with the excuse that it was an assignment. I have learned it is a difficult question to ask in the real world, however I firmly believe it is the most important question to ask if we are to advance in the right direction.
 Other Articles
http://www.canadafreepress.com/2007/global-warming091307.htm
http://www.canadafreepress.com/2007/global-warming072007.htm
http://www.canadafreepress.com/2006/harris061206.htm
http://www.canadafreepress.com/2007/global-warming020507.htm


 
Dr. Tim Ball, Chairman of the Natural Resources Stewardship Project, is a Victoria-based environmental consultant and former climatology professor at the University of Winnipeg. He can be reached at letters@canadafreepress.com

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fstsix
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« Reply #27 on: November 11, 2009, 06:01:38 PM »

Want More?  Shocked. Thanks for the contact info, I am sure someone on this board will email them and post the response for us to enjoy.
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Moonshot_1
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« Reply #28 on: November 11, 2009, 06:23:15 PM »

Holy smokes Air! Do you realize how many virtual trees your post killed??
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Mike Luken 
 

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Former Iowa Patriot Guard Ride Captain
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Can't get enough...

Santa Fe, TX


« Reply #29 on: November 11, 2009, 07:20:24 PM »

What's most disappointing about all this is that apparently intelligent, or at least literate, people (SR, PD etc.) actually buy all the stuff they do, and then accuse others of the exact same thing!   It wouldn't take much of a crack for an open mind to realize they've been had.
Oh well, makes for a fun message board!  It would sure be boring if we all agreed with them!
;-)
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stormrider
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Kinsey, AL


« Reply #30 on: November 11, 2009, 08:13:50 PM »

Dang Airtime. It'll take awhile to look all those up so Puffed up can dispute em all. What happened to SE? Ya know, I just posted a fact about what is coming up next and they attacked anyone that would disagree with em. Spoiled brat bullies is all I can say. And it all depends on who's facts you choose to believe. And if you don't believe their sources then you are part of the lunatic fringe or shortsighted, or whatever other name they want to call you. Come on boys and grow up. Here's the fact, unless you want the UN dictating our soveriegnty we better contact our Congressmen and tell em to say heck no. Copenhagen is coming up the first week of December.
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Freedom will ultimately cost more than we care to pay but will be worth every drop of blood to those who follow and cherrish it.
MP
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« Reply #31 on: November 11, 2009, 08:20:14 PM »

Amazing how the " we are all going to die" crowd shut up, ain't it?

I am sure we will hear "all your experts are phony, and all my experts are right" pretty soon.

MP
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stormrider
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« Reply #32 on: November 11, 2009, 09:02:26 PM »

Amazing how the " we are all going to die" crowd shut up, ain't it?

I am sure we will hear "all your experts are phony, and all my experts are right" pretty soon.

MP

It is so funny that I post a video from the horse's mouth, so to speak, and a link to the source and I'm slandered. Then they run and hide when I call them out or like Airtimes' post with lots of varifiable "facts" and puff, the're gone.
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Freedom will ultimately cost more than we care to pay but will be worth every drop of blood to those who follow and cherrish it.
JerryG59
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« Reply #33 on: November 11, 2009, 11:06:31 PM »

Is it just me or do liberals seem extremely easy to brainwash ? I love that post Air. These government paid scientists are always so sure of there propaganda. Man made global warming must be true if Al Gore is pushing it. Of course he lives in an 11,000 sq ft mansion. I wonder what tent city he's planning on moving to to help us save the planet ? I say we all need to draw a line in the sand right here. This bill includes home inspection to see if we are living green enough. Of course we will be sent a bill for the inspection. Then you will be given a list of the things you must change and by when the changes must be made. If you refuse to make these changes you will be commiting an illegal occupancy. Not your home anymore. If we allow this to happen it will be our own fault. Time to stand up America, they've pushed to far and it's time to push back. How many more jobs will we lose to the big industrial countries that don't have to comply to this tax. I'd like to know who writes these bills. They can come in my home for a green inspection right after they kill. I hope there are enough Americans that still have enough balls to draw that line.
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Airetime
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« Reply #34 on: November 12, 2009, 04:37:20 AM »

Holy smokes Air! Do you realize how many virtual trees your post killed??


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Black Dog
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« Reply #35 on: November 12, 2009, 06:49:29 AM »

Way to go Airetime...  I tried to say the same thing, but damn...  You did yer homework  cooldude

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Puffs Daddy
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« Reply #36 on: November 12, 2009, 07:54:21 AM »


Want more??

More of the same bunk from the global warming denial cottage industry consisting of non-peer reviewed opinions from non-scientists and crackpots? No thanks. A similar dump of evolution deniers doesn't change the fact that it has been established beyond a reasonable doubt. Nor that the vast majority of climatologists are convinced that human caused global warming is real and potentially catastrophic.

The thing about real science is that it is inherently skeptical. And if the sources you cite had any significant validity, they'd be taken into account. It ain't a conspiracy on the part of scientists, folks. Nor is it a conspiracy of "elites" to curtail consumption. (Hint: "Elites" benefit from mass consumption.)

And as noted earlier, most of us are in no position to judge the data independently. The tiny minority of deniers may, indeed, prove to be correct. But if they are, the measures designed to shift from fossil-based fuels and reduce human beings' carbon footprints all have benefits (such as a reduction of dependence on mideast oil) that are independent of climate change. What the deniers recommend, in contrast, do nothing to accomplish such goals.

Fortunately, neither the crackpots that deny evolution nor those that deny climate change can do much beyond posting internet rants.
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Mikey
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« Reply #37 on: November 12, 2009, 08:08:09 AM »

Apparently neither can the other side  Wink That hybrid you drive has a bigger carbon footprint than any SUV out there. The technology to make the batteries that make hybrids feasible consume large quantities of coal and diesel to mine and smelt. I'm not going to argue against evolution, I think it's pretty clear that organisms evolve, that's why there's a new flu shot every year. But I will tell you that I didn't evolve from monkeys, some people out there might have, but I know that I was created in His image.
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« Reply #38 on: November 12, 2009, 08:15:35 AM »


Want more??

More of the same bunk from the global warming denial cottage industry consisting of non-peer reviewed opinions from non-scientists and crackpots? No thanks. A similar dump of evolution deniers doesn't change the fact that it has been established beyond a reasonable doubt. Nor that the vast majority of climatologists are convinced that human caused global warming is real and potentially catastrophic.

The thing about real science is that it is inherently skeptical. And if the sources you cite had any significant validity, they'd be taken into account. It ain't a conspiracy on the part of scientists, folks. Nor is it a conspiracy of "elites" to curtail consumption. (Hint: "Elites" benefit from mass consumption.)

And as noted earlier, most of us are in no position to judge the data independently. The tiny minority of deniers may, indeed, prove to be correct. But if they are, the measures designed to shift from fossil-based fuels and reduce human beings' carbon footprints all have benefits (such as a reduction of dependence on mideast oil) that are independent of climate change. What the deniers recommend, in contrast, do nothing to accomplish such goals.

Fortunately, neither the crackpots that deny evolution nor those that deny climate change can do much beyond posting internet rants.


The sky is falling!  The sky is falling!  We're all doomed.  The sky is falling!  2funny 

I'm convinced some of us are evolving into monkeys as we speak. (or post)    2funny  2funny  2funny
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Puffs Daddy
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« Reply #39 on: November 12, 2009, 08:32:02 AM »


Want more??

More of the same bunk from the global warming denial cottage industry consisting of non-peer reviewed opinions from non-scientists and crackpots? No thanks. A similar dump of evolution deniers doesn't change the fact that it has been established beyond a reasonable doubt. Nor that the vast majority of climatologists are convinced that human caused global warming is real and potentially catastrophic.

The thing about real science is that it is inherently skeptical. And if the sources you cite had any significant validity, they'd be taken into account. It ain't a conspiracy on the part of scientists, folks. Nor is it a conspiracy of "elites" to curtail consumption. (Hint: "Elites" benefit from mass consumption.)

And as noted earlier, most of us are in no position to judge the data independently. The tiny minority of deniers may, indeed, prove to be correct. But if they are, the measures designed to shift from fossil-based fuels and reduce human beings' carbon footprints all have benefits (such as a reduction of dependence on mideast oil) that are independent of climate change. What the deniers recommend, in contrast, do nothing to accomplish such goals.

Fortunately, neither the crackpots that deny evolution nor those that deny climate change can do much beyond posting internet rants.


The sky is falling!  The sky is falling!  We're all doomed.  The sky is falling!  2funny 

I'm convinced some of us are evolving into monkeys as we speak. (or post)    2funny  2funny  2funny

Not surprisingly, it's the  folks who claim that those concerned with climate change are chicken littles are largely the same folks who claim that Obama supporters see him as a messiah. In fact, however, neither characterization is accurate; just a cheap tactic to denigrate the concern.

If one is looking for "Chicken Littles," a quick glance at a Tea Party rally is a good place to start.
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