Get out your wallets, global warming is going to cost you.

[X Ring]

Strong Eagle, are these the same scientists that told us a human caused ice age was coming back in the 70s and we had to do something immediately?

[fstsix]

FOX NEWS READ ALL ABOUT IT http://www.chinapost.com.tw/asiapacific/detail.asp?GRP=C&id=75000

[x]

Strong Eagle, are these the same scientists that told us a human caused ice age was coming back in the 70s and we had to do something immediately?

See... which scientists are this... and what is your attribution for this information?  You dig a bit and you find this doggerel is not supported... but it's good fodder for the wingnuts.

[x]

FOX NEWS READ ALL ABOUT IT http://www.chinapost.com.tw/asiapacific/detail.asp?GRP=C&id=75000

You miss the point that one of the predictions that comes from global warming is EXTREMES in temperatures.  The world doesn't just heat up uniformly be a couple of degrees... it's more like setting a pot to boil... you change the weather patterns.
 
Instead of blindly looking at the fact that it is record cold, you might ought to ask yourself, how is it that these places are being affected by record cold?  What has made it happen?

[fstsix]

SE, We do understand this is a ever changing World, and most here agree we care about our Environment, what is Fact and what is Theory is really the debate?,It just seems all theory is based on Fact, So if Fact is the rock to stand on,It seems the (Fact)  i am typing in the (Now) here, will supercede the theory of the how we got here.I do have a friend that has explained this, He told me to study the Book of Genesis you can start at chapter 1, BTW My friend is JC ever heard of him?

[x]

SE, We do understand this is a ever changing World, and most here agree we care about our Environment, what is Fact and what is Theory is really the debate?,It just seems all theory is based on Fact, So if Fact is the rock to stand on,It seems the (Fact)  i am typing in the (Now) here, will supercede the theory of the how we got here.I do have a friend that has explained this, He told me to study the Book of Genesis you can start at chapter 1, BTW My friend is JC ever heard of him?

Yes, as a matter of fact I have.  Genesis is a book of history, perhaps a spiritual foundation, but little to do with scientific facts that confront us today.  From a religious perspective we have an obligation as God's shepherd of all living things, and the earth, to do what is right to keep it in integrity.  Those that dismiss global warming as a hoax or as a socialist conspiracy fail to honor that pact

[fstsix]

40 days of Rain and 40 nights maybe this could be a point of some research? or was that Wormwood found in Turkey not worth looking into. Was this maybe man made climate issue? or? What does that Rainbow mean to a man of God? Sure was a lot of rain who's fault was that?.

[x]

40 days of Rain and 40 nights maybe this could be a point of some research? or was that Wormwood found in Turkey not worth looking into. Was this maybe man made climate issue? or? What does that Rainbow mean to a man of God? Sure was a lot of rain who's fault was that?.

That was yesterday, this is today.  You think God wants us to ignore the problems that we ourselves have created and instead, pray to God to cure the things we have fouled up?

[fstsix]

Jackson 5 "Dancing Machine" 1975	powered by Aeva

[Puffs Daddy]

SE, We do understand this is a ever changing World, and most here agree we care about our Environment, what is Fact and what is Theory is really the debate?,It just seems all theory is based on Fact, So if Fact is the rock to stand on,It seems the (Fact)  i am typing in the (Now) here, will supercede the theory of the how we got here.I do have a friend that has explained this, He told me to study the Book of Genesis you can start at chapter 1, BTW My friend is JC ever heard of him?

You're certainly free to define "facts" and "theories" in whatever eccentric way you please. And you're likewise free to justify your opinions with references to religious texts. What neither you nor others who follow similarly religious paths, including those you view as heretics,  aren't free to do is to make public policy for the rest of us.

[stormrider]

The point I tried to make with the original post is that without action on our part, the UN will have control over our lives to a point. Some control, how much, I don't know. I don't like giving up control, do you? Here's the way I see the climate debate. You can believe what you want, isn't that what we already do? There are ligitimate claims on both sides of the issue. As a firefighter, I have studied some about the toxic gases released during a fire, especially a structure fire or vehicle fire. Sometimes you may get a chemical that has never been produced before because of the mixing of the smoke from different substances burning. There are some brake lines in some vehicles that can kill you with only a small ppm dose. When you are close to the source it is more hazardous, further away, less. Fact of life, we are going to have fires of this nature and the associated pollution.

World wide pollution from manufacturing, not an expert. However, I feel it is our responsibility to do what we can to cut down or eliminate pollution, air and water. Sometimes government intervenes. It would be nice if we would do the right thing on our own. Our society is greed driven, make a product for the least expense and the most profit. That's what drives the economy. If we as taxpayers/voters/consumers would force, first off the manufacturers to reduce pollutants, then we wouldn't need the government dictating standards. But we want the best products for the least price, so the delima. Government gets involved. Clean water act, clean air act, endangered species act, etc. Then there are abuses of these acts where landowners are either told they cannot use their land for the purpose they bought it, or their land is deemed a habitat for some unheard of species and they cannot develop it at all, or in some case confiscate it because of violations and are not properly compensated. Over zealot government workers cloud the water at times and bring misery to the people.

Then, we have government get involved with an industry they try to regulate, such as the auto industry by first setting standards such as air pollution standards. Then when foreign competition is putting a hurting on them by offering more economical and energy efficient models, and the sales fall, the government steps in and bails them out. And the whole time big oil has to be figured in cause they like to sell their product, surely they have their hands in somebody's pocket. Why didn't we have a 75 mpg car back in the 70's or 80's. We sent a man to the moon for crying out loud. Auto's have been driven by the same technology they were invented with over 100 years ago. Not an engineer, but somewhere along the way someone probably came up with a better way and it got bought up by big oil or the auto industry. Greed wins again.

And manufacturing, whow, lots of pollutants, from lots of sources. Why not as consumers we demand that a manufacturer put a pollution statement on their product as to how many ppm of polllutants were produced in the manufacture of each product. Of course they would twist that just like they do with food labeling.

It seems everything is going to globalization. I've heard it refered to as collectivism. I honestly believe that not too far in the future that huge corporations in conjuction with the mega money brokers (bankers) will try to exert total control over the economies and soveriegnty of the nations of the world. Now, you neighseyers, have your say as well. There is no cospiracy according to your sources or your way of thinking. I'm stating what I've seen through much reading and study. And in doing so, I haven't formulated a theory and tried to prove it with writings to support such a theory. In retrospect, most of the reading I've done is by chance. Someone out of the blue saying, "you should read the Creature From Jekyll Island", or being at Books A Million and just wandering through titles and one jumps off the shelf titled, "Confessions of an Economic Hitman", or at a used book store I have never been to before and finding two books by the same author, John A. Stormer, "Death of a Nation" and "None Dare Call It Treason", just to name a few.

Is there a conspiracy? Probably so. There has, throughout history, always been someone or a group of someone's trying to control the populace. And there are people at work today to try to control you and I. It's in their blood, like an addiction. Believe it or not.

Greed, the lust of money, power, control, is a strong addiction. If you don't believe me then send me $100. I need it, you don't. Government leaders have no problem taking your money, industry has no problem inflating prices, theives have no problem robbing you, (btw, don't steal, the government hates competition), greed leads to uncontrolled lust which leads to a feeling of needing to have ultimate control. Just like a rapist who has a degenerated desire to control someone else.

Whether our climate is in as bad of shape as some would state or want you to believe, there is an effort by others to exert control over you. As a soveriegn nation, we should be left to shape our own policy. Not have it dictated by foreign interests. And in like manner we should stay out of the affairs of foreign nations, whether climate related or other affairs. If we are opposed to their climate ploicy, don't buy their products or send them aid. It's a shame though we have allowed our government leaders to place us in such great debt, it is as though we want have much of a choice but to go along with what our debtors want. It will be interesting as to what China does if they are involved in Copenhagen. And if China doesn't sign and we do, who's gong to tell who to do what? China hold's a large percent of our debt.  

Oh well, and the debate goes on. As for now, I've about used up all the few remaining cells I have left allocated for today. Guess I shouldn't have "polluted"   my brain with all the illegal substances that were around back in the early seventies.

[Mikey]

I am thinking what is lacking in this thread is respect. I get the feeling there is the majority of people on this particular thread that agree, and a handful that don't. That's fine. The worst way to persuade someone to think like you do is to tell them that their idea is dumb. If you show the opposite side that you have taken into account their point of view, thought about it, and made an educated decision based on what they have said, what you have read, and your own personal beliefs it just might encourage the other party to do the same. On the other hand, calling people eccentric, looney, radical, or any number of other names you might call someone makes you look infantile and uneducated.

[stormrider]

SE, We do understand this is a ever changing World, and most here agree we care about our Environment, what is Fact and what is Theory is really the debate?,It just seems all theory is based on Fact, So if Fact is the rock to stand on,It seems the (Fact)  i am typing in the (Now) here, will supercede the theory of the how we got here.I do have a friend that has explained this, He told me to study the Book of Genesis you can start at chapter 1, BTW My friend is JC ever heard of him?

You're certainly free to define "facts" and "theories" in whatever eccentric way you please. And you're likewise free to justify your opinions with references to religious texts. What neither you nor others who follow similarly religious paths, including those you view as heretics,  aren't free to do is to make public policy for the rest of us.

And quoting Puff, are you he who makes public policy for us? And I didn't read it as though he was making a public policy statement. Where'd you get that from? What words did you read that stated that his words are public policy?

[Puffs Daddy]

I am thinking what is lacking in this thread is respect. I get the feeling there is the majority of people on this particular thread that agree, and a handful that don't. That's fine. The worst way to persuade someone to think like you do is to tell them that their idea is dumb. If you show the opposite side that you have taken into account their point of view, thought about it, and made an educated decision based on what they have said, what you have read, and your own personal beliefs it just might encourage the other party to do the same. On the other hand, calling people eccentric, looney, radical, or any number of other names you might call someone makes you look infantile and uneducated.

I'm not really concerned with "persuading" folks on this board wrt global climate change. Over the last decade or so the deniers have moved from denial that global warming is occurring at all to claiming that, well yes, it's happening but it's not our fault. Eventually, all but the flat earthers will abandon that view, as well. 

There will always be folks who don't understand (and/or have no wish to understand) the nature of science and the scientific method. That's sad but inevitable.

As for the notion that this is all some sort of plot on the part of the UN "control our lives," that is simply a misreading of the politics of the issue and a bizarre misunderstanding of the power of the United Nations. Folks who believe such nonsense usually can't be "persuaded" they're wrong simply because they don't rely on facts to inform their opinions.

[Mikey]

Puff's- People who don't take history into account never learn from their mistakes either. I would like to know what makes you qualified to declare that you "understand the nature of science and the scientific method". Are you a scientist? an expert? some sort of prodigy? The scientific method isn't proving that an idea or theory is right, the scientific method is proving that, without a doubt, the theory is not wrong. What proof do you have (yes, I'm saying SHOW ME) that without a doubt, the hole in the ozone layer was caused by carbon emissions? The truth is that yes, carbon emissions can and do hurt the atmosphere, but 70 years ago, we had no idea how large that hole was. The truth is that it's not a repeatable experiment. There is no way to conclusively, without a doubt, prove that anything that you or I or any of the "misguided" people out there are right or wrong. So what you call science, I call speculation, because there is nothing scientific about it.

[Chrisj CMA]

The claim we nasty oil burning rich people are ruining the world with Co2 has always been overstated to use as leverage for other agendas.  Now Im not saying we havent polluted our world.....sure we have, but we have cleaned up quite a lot of it too.  Co2 doesnt stay in the atmosphere, it goes away, out into space.......theres no sense to this cap and trade rip off because of co2.  Remember when hairspray was killing the planet..........then freeon..........now its using petroleum and coal and so forth......... climate change and the dangers of it are exaggerated so some can use it for leverage to further other issues....look at who is getting richer, look at who benfits politically and you see more of the motivation behind the exaggerations

[fstsix]

SE, We do understand this is a ever changing World, and most here agree we care about our Environment, what is Fact and what is Theory is really the debate?,It just seems all theory is based on Fact, So if Fact is the rock to stand on,It seems the (Fact)  i am typing in the (Now) here, will supercede the theory of the how we got here.I do have a friend that has explained this, He told me to study the Book of Genesis you can start at chapter 1, BTW My friend is JC ever heard of him?

You're certainly free to define "facts" and "theories" in whatever eccentric way you please. And you're likewise free to justify your opinions with references to religious texts. What neither you nor others who follow similarly religious paths, including those you view as heretics,  aren't free to do is to make public policy for the rest of us.

Eccentric?   

Jackson 5 "Dancing Machine" 1975	powered by Aeva

[x]

The claim we nasty oil burning rich people are ruining the world with Co2 has always been overstated to use as leverage for other agendas.  Now Im not saying we havent polluted our world.....sure we have, but we have cleaned up quite a lot of it too.  Co2 doesnt stay in the atmosphere, it goes away, out into space.......theres no sense to this cap and trade rip off because of co2.  Remember when hairspray was killing the planet..........then freeon..........now its using petroleum and coal and so forth......... climate change and the dangers of it are exaggerated so some can use it for leverage to further other issues....look at who is getting richer, look at who benfits politically and you see more of the motivation behind the exaggerations

Besides being factually incorrect, what's the difference between 'other agendas' and calling it a hoax?  None, as both suggest that the entire problem is made up, and if you believe that, you clearly don't understand that situation.

And just out of curiosity, who is setting this agenda?  Who 'benfits (sic) politically'?  Am I about to hear about a vast socialist conspiracy who is using this hoax called global warming to push their 'agenda'... which is what BTW?
 
Shades of the John Birch Society!

[Chrisj CMA]

Am I about to hear about a vast socialist conspiracy who is using this hoax called global warming to push their 'agenda'

Not from me you wont because you are not capable of hearing anything that sounds like your "golden boy" is not the hero you koolaid drinkers tend to think he is

[fstsix]

Take a guess

Criminal Rothschilds	powered by Aeva

[x]

Am I about to hear about a vast socialist conspiracy who is using this hoax called global warming to push their 'agenda'

Not from me you wont because you are not capable of hearing anything that sounds like your "golden boy" is not the hero you koolaid drinkers tend to think he is

So now I am a 'koolaid drinker' because I happen to believe global warming is real?  And, which 'golden boy' are you referring to?  Your thought processes amaze me.

[JerryG59]

It was just as warm in the 1940s as it is now yet CO2 emissions were 1/9th of what they are today. In the 50s, 60s and 70s we had a 30 year cooling period even though CO2 emissions were increasing. The IPCC uses ice core samples to claim post industrialization increases in CO2. 650,000 yrs of ice core samples from around the globe all show CO2 levels of 240-270 ppm for almost that entire period yet we know there has been many warming and cooling cycles in that time. There was a Roman warm period. There was a midieval warm period. There was a little ice age about 700 yrs ago. There was a big ice age 10,500 yrs ago. What caused the Roman and midieval warm periods ? Anthropogenic CO2 ? What ended the last big and little ice ages ? I see far too many holes in the man made Global warming story. I know Al Gore says the debate is over = sit down and shut up. I believe the debate has only begun. If people on the left really want to look at all sides do a Google search on ( Cosmoclimatology ) It seems to me were gonna be forced to pay for CO2 because of a sun cycle. Of course the IPCC ignores the sun cycle debate because it doesn't support their money scam. I also want to point out that useing ice core samples to measure ancient atmospheric CO2 is bogus science. I only used ice core sample numbers because the IPCC pretends they mean something even though they know it's bogus science. I use to believe man made Global warming was real.....then i pulled my head out of the sand and looked a little deaper.

[Chrisj CMA]

exactly Jerry you hit it on the head...its a money scam.  The loonie left and the whacked commie socialist fascist "helpers" they have hovering around (led by S.E.'s "golden boy" Obama) only care about how much money they can make these "projects" cost.  Not only do they get revenue to continue socializing America, but they can redistribute it to their "constituants" and future constituants whom they prefer stay deeply dependant on a free government handout system.  They look at it as job security.  See, the poor subjects cant afford medical care.  So what if its because big government (for years) have made the economy almost impossible to break into unless you are already rich.  No it cant be because we tax everything under the sun....so we have to "rescue" them and they will be so grateful and indebted to us, they will never have the courage to vote for a government that expects them to earn and pay their own way again.

OK, so thats an oversimplified story time version (nightmare really) of how I see it, but I believe its what is happening under our very noses, and were supposed to not notice.

[Scanner]

exactly Jerry you hit it on the head...its a money scam.  The loonie left and the whacked commie socialist fascist "helpers" they have hovering around (led by S.E.'s "golden boy" Obama) only care about how much money they can make these "projects" cost.  Not only do they get revenue to continue socializing America, but they can redistribute it to their "constituants" and future constituants whom they prefer stay deeply dependant on a free government handout system.  They look at it as job security.  See, the poor subjects cant afford medical care.  So what if its because big government (for years) have made the economy almost impossible to break into unless you are already rich.  No it cant be because we tax everything under the sun....so we have to "rescue" them and they will be so grateful and indebted to us, they will never have the courage to vote for a government that expects them to earn and pay their own way again.

OK, so thats an oversimplified story time version (nightmare really) of how I see it, but I believe its what is happening under our very noses, and were supposed to not notice.

Lol...yeah that Loonie Left and whacked commie socialist fascist "helpers" like George W Bush....


Bush Administration: global warming is real and a threat to the U.S. economy:

"The Bush Administration today released a court-ordered assessment on climate. The report — titled "Scientific Assessment of the Effects of Global Change on the United States" — says human-driven climate change will damage ecosystems and pose challenges to key sectors of the U.S. economy including agriculture and energy. "

http://news.mongabay.com/2008/0530-bush.html

...cursed whacky commie socialist fascist "helpers"

[MP]

And the new messiah just announced that the Copenhagen conference is off!

MP

[fudgie]

We exhaile CO2. Have for millions of years. 

[Chrisj CMA]

News flash Scanner.  Bush is not the President any longer.  Yes he was part of the problem, he increased the size of government and the corruption that goes with it way more than Republican administrations have historically.  I didnt like that either, but he's gone.  The new administration has worn out its continual blaming of the previous, they need to take ownership and move on.  They havent yet, but its only been a year, so we'll see

[fstsix]

News flash Scanner.  Bush is not the President any longer.  Yes he was part of the problem, he increased the size of government and the corruption that goes with it way more than Republican administrations have historically.  I didnt like that either, but he's gone.  The new administration has worn out its continual blaming of the previous, they need to take ownership and move on.  They havent yet, but its only been a year, so we'll see

Bro they just cant go any deeper than what they see,I wish it was just Mr president, Just a pawn both of them.

[Scanner]

"News flash Scanner.  Bush is not the President any longer"

Never said he was - even when he was.  Just pointing out it's not just the "loonie left" but also the loonie right. And then there is the loonie fringe...

Try to focus on the issues there fellas.

[x]

Try to focus on the issues there fellas.

Good luck!  There are no issues 'cause it's a hoax, it's a conspiracy, rampant socialism taking over.

Like I said... shades of John Birch... a commie hiding behind every tree and the Trilateral Commission running it all!

[Mikey]

It's a good thing that we have someone on this board like you, Strong Eagle, who is far enough away from the real issues here in America that you can give the correct perspective. I'm glad there are people out there like you to keep me and my crazy friends in line, on the right track, and show us the truth.

Your ignorance and arrogance disgust me. I really hope you don't have voting rights here.

[x]

The loonie left and the whacked commie socialist fascist "helpers"...

This is great... just had to Google 'whacked commie socialist fascist'.

Hmmm...

"Communism" - A socioeconomic structure and political ideology that promotes the establishment of an egalitarian, classless, stateless society based on common ownership and control of the means of production and property in general.

"Socialism" - Refers to various theories of economic organization advocating public or direct worker ownership and administration of the means of production and allocation of resources, and a society characterized by equal access to resources for all individuals with a method of compensation based on the amount of labor expended.  Most socialists share the view that capitalism unfairly concentrates power and wealth among a small segment of society that controls capital and derives its wealth through exploitation.

"Fascism" - A political ideology that seeks to combine radical and authoritarian nationalism with a corporatist economic system and which is usually considered to be on the far right of the traditional left-right political spectrum.

Sounds like a 4 way cold tablet trying to go all four ways at once.

Gee... only the rich can break in... is that what you said?  Well, heck what you're complaining about is exactly what the socialists complain about... the capitalists and fascists make it impossible for the little guy to get ahead.  They control the banks, the money, the economy, and with political donations, they control the government... but wait... isn't that what you are complaining about all the time, you ole socialist, you?

Fascism and socialism are on the opposite ends of the political and economic spectrum so this poor fellow you're talking about must be having a severe case of cognitive dissonance... no wonder the poor bastid is 'whacked'... he don't know if he be liking or disliking 'the man'.

PS:  The US has one of the lower overall tax rates in the world.

PSS:  Are you sure you didn't mean, 'whacked commie socialist fascist liberal'?

[x]

It's a good thing that we have someone on this board like you, Strong Eagle, who is far enough away from the real issues here in America that you can give the correct perspective. I'm glad there are people out there like you to keep me and my crazy friends in line, on the right track, and show us the truth.

Your ignorance and arrogance disgust me. I really hope you don't have voting rights here.

I'm an American.  I get to vote.  Why would you hope I don't have voting rights?

I see America from different perspectives.  I see it as an American, with family, friends, property, and retirement plans to worry about.  I see America as you cannot see it...because all you see is what is dished up to you every day by a media more worried about ratings and the police blotter than real news.  I see world opinion.

So, I'd be careful throwing that word 'ignorant' around... you might get slapped with it yourself.

And, if you think I'm arrogant, you don't know what the word means... and that gets back to the other word... oh, well... never mind.

[Mikey]

My problem with you voting here is exactly what you explained. You see the outside perspective of America. If you think I'm ignorant, then why would I get my news from 3 different printed sources? I don't watch news on TV because, as you stated, they are about ratings.
And last but not least: Arrogant- having or showing feelings of unwarranted importance out of overbearing pride

I do not think I am of any special importance. I get the feeling that you think since you're "cultured" because you live in Singapore, you feel you have a better perspective than anyone else. Truth is, you don't. You do have a different perspective, just like everyone else here.

[Scanner]

My problem with you voting here is exactly what you explained. You see the outside perspective of America. If you think I'm ignorant, then why would I get my news from 3 different printed sources? I don't watch news on TV because, as you stated, they are about ratings.
And last but not least: Arrogant- having or showing feelings of unwarranted importance out of overbearing pride

I do not think I am of any special importance. I get the feeling that you think since you're "cultured" because you live in Singapore, you feel you have a better perspective than anyone else. Truth is, you don't. You do have a different perspective, just like everyone else here.

"If you think I'm ignorant, then why would I get my news from 3 different printed sources? I don't watch news on TV because, as you stated, they are about ratings. "

First, nobody accused you of being ignorant- you called SE ignorant. Second, Uh, why does getting info from 3 print sources make you less ignorant?  Wouldn't that depend on the sources?  If one of them is Weekly Reader , well....

And by the way, do any of those printed sources have advertisers? If so, can you tell me how circulation significantly differs from "ratings"

[fudgie]

First, nobody accused you of being ignorant- you called SE ignorant. Second, Uh, why does getting info from 3 print sources make you less ingnorant?  Wouldn't that depend on the sources?  If one of them is Weekly Reader , well....

And what is wrong with Weekly Reader? 

[fstsix]

"News flash Scanner.  Bush is not the President any longer"

Never said he was - even when he was.  Just pointing out it's not just the "loonie left" but also the loonie right. And then there is the loonie fringe...

Try to focus on the issues there fellas.

Oh boy oh boy oh boy My step daddy please dont shine me on please please you know step daddy its just so hurtfull when you break my self esteem but but i dont think your a bully i LOVE you but you didnt tell me you were an ORPHAN like all your your friends im ssssoorry i believe everthing you tell me i proommisse. but but but i cant fffocuse but when when i growed up i wwwant to be just like you

This article is an orphan, as few or no other articles link to it. Please introduce links to this page from other articles related to it. (February 2009)

Mauri S. Pelto is a professor of environmental science at Nichols College in Dudley, Massachusetts and director of the North Cascades Glacier Climate Project. Mauri Pelto has been studying the glaciers in the North Cascades located in the U.S. state of Washington since 1984. Pelto's research team has recorded the mass balance of numerous glaciers, all of which are retreating due to global warming, which has raised temperatures and decreased the amount of snowfall in the accumulation zone of the North Cascade glaciers. Pelto has stated that of the 756 glaciers that were identified in the North Cascades by the U.S. Geological Survey in 1971, 53 of them had disappeared completely by 2006. Another nine are also expected to disappear if current climate patterns continue.[1] In addition, three glaciers in particular pose economic and environmental risks if they retreat much further.[2]         

[valkmc]

I find it amusing that the global warming denier crowd doesn't hesitate to believe that literally thousands of scientists are engaged in some sort of vast conspiracy to push a particular agenda but are so unwilling to entertain the notion that the various "deniers" share a common agenda to avoid paying the external costs of current energy policy.

For those interested in the actual science that underlies concerns over global warming and the literally indisputable links to human activity, try the website below. Be warned, however. Understanding the real controversies associated with climate change requires more than a simplistic conspiracy theory.

http://www.realclimate.org/

I have read mucho on the subject and it continues to be muddled. There is so much information on both sides and everyone has their own agenda, with that said I have children and expect to have grandkids so I would rather spend some $ and make sure this does not impact their life.

[fstsix]

Thanks fstsix, i feel alot better now. No worries mate, we can get jobs as prison guards.

JerryG59 I know its been bad out there so i felt as a American to help and let you Know the prison Jobs will be taking applications But you have to watch this Video to see if you Qualify.  http://biggovernment.com/2009/11/18/pelosis-healthcare-vision-government-mandate-or-jail/#more-33270

[Jeff K]

 

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jamesdelingpole/100017393/climategate-the-final-nail-in-the-coffin-of-anthropogenic-global-warming/

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/11/19/breaking-news-story-hadley-cru-has-apparently-been-hacked-hundreds-of-files-released/#more-12937