Coronavirus $hit be getting real

[Robert]

This is the last gasp of Democrat Congressional tyrants trying one last time to remove this elected President. It’s laughable...

What this is, is desperation on the part of Pelosi and Schumer. This is desperation on their part knowing that the whole thing was disproven and shot down by the evidence. If Trump gets elected a second time, you will see investigations into Congress, Senate, Obamagate and China. These people are desperate to keep that stuff from coming out.

You think President Trump is exposing them now? You wait until he gets elected a second time. That’s why they are so terrified, and they are trying everything they can to keep him from being elected.”

[Valkorado]

More Sweden.

https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-antibody-study-suggests-sweden-not-reaching-herd-immunity-2020-5

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-sweden-strategy/swedish-antibody-study-shows-long-road-to-immunity-as-covid-19-toll-mounts-idUSKBN22W2YC

[carolinarider09]

May 21, 2020

500 doctors tell Trump to end the coronavirus shutdown, say it will cause more deaths

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/may/21/500-doctors-tell-donald-trump-end-coronavirus-shut/?utm_source=ForAmerica&fbclid=IwAR2Pih3S4udupax0c_syS6xzB2DmngB7NITNJErYkpuYAfQ1sXPzsu7lxcE

[Oss]

Carolina I totally agree with that assessment

If only the morons in NYS and NYC could see that way

[Serk]

[Valkorado]

  At the honky tonk... Badonkadonk!  You guys are always having all the fun!

[Serk]

Sudden outbreak of common sense???

"Dr. Anthony Fauci says staying closed for too long could cause ‘irreparable damage’"

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/22/dr-anthony-fauci-says-staying-closed-for-too-long-could-cause-irreparable-damage.html

[Valkorado]

USPS Defies Orders To Close Denver Sorting Facility That Handles Mail For All Of Colorado

https://denver.cbslocal.com/2020/05/22/usps-refuses-orders-close-denver-sorting-facility-mail-colorado-wyoming/

https://www.newsweek.com/denver-usps-facility-ordered-close-after-employees-reportedly-test-positive-coronavirus-1506067

[scooperhsd]

USPS Defies Orders To Close Denver Sorting Facility That Handles Mail For All Of Colorado

https://denver.cbslocal.com/2020/05/22/usps-refuses-orders-close-denver-sorting-facility-mail-colorado-wyoming/

https://www.newsweek.com/denver-usps-facility-ordered-close-after-employees-reportedly-test-positive-coronavirus-1506067

The comments were - um - rather negative against the Health dept and the local city government. As one stated - 5 positive out of 1800 employees and they want to shutdown all mail for Colorado AND Wyoming ? That's OVERREACH !!!

[Valkorado]

USPS Defies Orders To Close Denver Sorting Facility That Handles Mail For All Of Colorado

https://denver.cbslocal.com/2020/05/22/usps-refuses-orders-close-denver-sorting-facility-mail-colorado-wyoming/

https://www.newsweek.com/denver-usps-facility-ordered-close-after-employees-reportedly-test-positive-coronavirus-1506067

The comments were - um - rather negative against the Health dept and the local city government. As one stated - 5 positive out of 1800 employees and they want to shutdown all mail for Colorado AND Wyoming ? That's OVERREACH !!!

Yeah!  I appreciate getting my mail.

[98valk]

fake, confused testing pump up those numbers??

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/05/cdc-and-states-are-misreporting-covid-19-test-data-pennsylvania-georgia-texas/611935/?utm_source=pocket-newtab

[Valkorado]

fake, confused testing pump up those numbers??

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/05/cdc-and-states-are-misreporting-covid-19-test-data-pennsylvania-georgia-texas/611935/?utm_source=pocket-newtab

Interesting article.

[carolinarider09]

I just did a search here for the word Reuter's.  I did not find a post containing that word.  So, maybe the following information was posted without a reference. 

Seems the word has been making the rounds of news cycles about the 1968-1969 Hong Kong Flu Pandemic and that Woodstock took place during the pandemic. 

So, Reuter's had to fact check it.  Here is the summary and my "analysis"

"VERDICT

Misleading. The Woodstock music festival took place months after the first season of the Hong Kong flu had ended in the United States. Although there was to be a second wave in the U.S. the following winter, it is misleading to say it happened “in the middle of a pandemic”.

This article was produced by the Reuters Fact Check team. Read more about our work to fact-check social media posts  here  .​"

Analysis:  They had to wordsmith the verdict since the flu is only active during months A-C and there was a pause, as will happen with COVID19. 

Also, I assume no one caught the Hong Kong flue after March of 1969 and before the next case was in October of 1969. 

More information from the article. 

"The death toll from the Hong Kong flu was comparable with the 1957 Asian flu pandemic that killed 1.1 million worldwide (here). As of May 12, 2020 at least 286,669 people globally had died during the current COVID-19 outbreak ( coronavirus.jhu.edu/map.html ). The worst pandemic in modern history, the Spanish Influenza of 1918, is estimated to have killed at least 50 million ( here )"

Analysis:

When news organizations or other groups compare numbers of deaths associated with an event in the past there is never any comparisons based on population.  World population in 1968 was 3,551,599,127 (estimated).

World population in 2020 (again estimated) is 7,794,798,739.  Thats a 120% increase in world population.

Assuming the Hong Kong flu occurred in a population of 7,794,798,739 it would have resulted in over 2.2 million deaths world wide (in fact you would have more because the population is denser but....)

The current number of deaths, worldwide,  attributed to COVID19 is, now, about 343,503.  That is a figure starting sometime in early February though today.  For the morbidity of COVID19 to equal or surpass that of the Hong Kong flu, this rate of morbidity would have to continue for the next 22 to 24 months.

Divide 2,200,000 by 343,503 and you get 6.4.  Multiply 6.4 times 4 (number of months since morbidity tracking for COVID19 was started) and you get 25.6, or 2.13 years.  If you wish you can use 3.5 months and you get 22.4 months or one year 10 months. 

Conclusion: Yes Woodstock did happen during a pause in the Hong Kong Flu in 1969.  The morbidity of COVID19 is no where near as great as the the morbidity associated with the Hong Kong flu and we did not shut down an the worlds largest economy during the 1968-1969 Honk Kong flu.

I know we are taking real people and real deaths.  But, ladies and gentlemen, many of us have been there done that and got the T-Shirt.  We lived, loved, fought and many died, but we survived.  Today, we run and hide, put on masks, make liquor stores and big box stores "essential" while church are considered non-essential, along with routine doctors visits.  I remind you, the shut down and all the other attendant things were to "FLATTEN THE CURVE". 

[Valkorado]

"

I know we are taking real people and real deaths.  But, ladies and gentlemen, many of us have been there done that and got the T-Shirt. 

That's one T-shirt I'm in no rush to wear.   

[carolinarider09]

I failed to include a link to the reference article. 

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-woodstock-pandemic-1968-idUSKBN22J2MJ

[carolinarider09]

As I have said before, I never served in Viet Nam, I was safely ensconced in a 300 foot long 33 foot diameter tube during my time in the US Navy.

But it would curious to know the experiences of those who did and if they took special precautions. 

According to what I have read the Hong Kong Flu was brought to the US by a returning solider who had visited or had a friend who visited Hong Kong during the Pandemic's start there. 

Regarding the "T-Shirt".  As I have said before, in the fall of 1968 I was just finishing up my Electronics Tech training at Great Lakes before being sent to he USS Wasp (CVS-18).  So, I was in "A" school with other men, in close proximity to them.

If you had asked me in last year if I had heard of the Hong Kong flu, I would have said no.  It was not part of narrative then.  We were not bombarded every day about how deadly it was, how we all needed to run and hide. 

So, I ask the collective here, what then is the difference between 1968 and 2020?  Its certainly not that COVID19 is more deadly than the Hong Kong flu.  I have offered reasonable evidence that it is not. 

So, what is different about COVID19? The time to develop a vaccine is reportedly the same as in 1968-1969.  So, again I ask what is the difference? 

Is it that human life is more important today then it was 52 years ago?  I think not.

So, what is different about COVID19? 

[The emperor has no clothes]

So, I ask the collective here, what then is the difference between 1968 and 2020?  Its certainly not that COVID19 is more deadly than the Hong Kong flu.  I have offered reasonable evidence that it is not.  

So, what is different about COVID19? The time to develop a vaccine is reportedly the same as in 1968-1969.  So, again I ask what is the difference?  

Is it that human life is more important today then it was 52 years ago?  I think not.

So, what is different about COVID19?  

First off, I would dispute your assertion that they 1968 Hong Kong flu was worse than this Covid19. The Hong Kong flu killed 100,000 in the U.S. over a 2 year time frame. We are at 96,000 in 3 months with a lockdown over most of the country. Who knows where the number would be without it, or where the number will be at the 2 year mark. To your question of what is different from 52 years ago. Much. Science, Technology, Medicine, Information to name a few.

[Valkorado]

Did Woodstock go on during another pandemic? Coronavirus vs. Hong Kong flu

https://www.syracuse.com/coronavirus/2020/05/did-woodstock-go-on-during-another-pandemic-coronavirus-vs-hong-kong-flu.html

Quote :

“Woodstock was not partying in defiance of pandemic containment measures, because at the time of Woodstock, there was no pandemic, and there were no containment measures to defy. In the months following the December-January peak of the pandemic, the flu all but disappeared," Woodstock co-producer Joel Rosenman told Reuters. "By mid-‘69, any preoccupation with the virus had given way to widespread unconcern ... It wasn’t until the next flu season, several months after Woodstock, that we all found ourselves in a horrifying déjà flu.”

[Bighead]

So, I ask the collective here, what then is the difference between 1968 and 2020?  Its certainly not that COVID19 is more deadly than the Hong Kong flu.  I have offered reasonable evidence that it is not. 

So, what is different about COVID19? The time to develop a vaccine is reportedly the same as in 1968-1969.  So, again I ask what is the difference? 

Is it that human life is more important today then it was 52 years ago?  I think not.

So, what is different about COVID19? 

First off, I would dispute your assertion that they 1968 Hong Kong flu was no worse than this Covid19. The Hong Kong flu killed 100,000 in the U.S. over a 2 year time frame. We are at 96,000 in 3 months with a lockdown over most of the country. Who knows where the number would be without it, or where the number will be at the 2 year mark. To your question of what is different from 52 years ago. Much. Science, Technology, Medicine, Information to name a few.

Meat read what you wrote.  Your first sentence makes the rest of you post invalid

[Valkorado]

First off, I would dispute your assertion that the 1968 Hong Kong flu was no worse than this Covid19. The Hong Kong flu killed 100,000 in the U.S. over a 2 year time frame. We are at 96,000 in 3 months with a lockdown over most of the country. Who knows where the number would be without it, or where the number will be at the 2 year mark. To your question of what is different from 52 years ago. Much. Science, Technology, Medicine, Information to name a few.

fixed

[The emperor has no clothes]

First off, I would dispute your assertion that the 1968 Hong Kong flu was no worse than this Covid19. The Hong Kong flu killed 100,000 in the U.S. over a 2 year time frame. We are at 96,000 in 3 months with a lockdown over most of the country. Who knows where the number would be without it, or where the number will be at the 2 year mark. To your question of what is different from 52 years ago. Much. Science, Technology, Medicine, Information to name a few.

fixed

oops, thanks 

[Willow]

First off, I would dispute your assertion that they 1968 Hong Kong flu was worse than this Covid19. The Hong Kong flu killed 100,000 in the U.S. over a 2 year time frame. We are at 96,000 in 3 months with a lockdown over most of the country. Who knows where the number would be without it, or where the number will be at the 2 year mark. ...

No one knows the answer to either question.  As to where we would be without the lock down observation of Sweden has shown us that we would likely be near where we are now but without the extensive economic and social damage.

Where will we be in two years?  Check back with me in 24 months and I'll let you know.  The "experts" guesses have been wrong everytime so far.

[Valkorado]

First off, I would dispute your assertion that they 1968 Hong Kong flu was worse than this Covid19. The Hong Kong flu killed 100,000 in the U.S. over a 2 year time frame. We are at 96,000 in 3 months with a lockdown over most of the country. Who knows where the number would be without it, or where the number will be at the 2 year mark. ...

No one knows the answer to either question.  As to where we would be without the lock down observation of Sweden has shown us that we would likely be near where we are now but without the extensive economic and social damage.

Where will we be in two years?  Check back with me in 24 months and I'll let you know.  The "experts" guesses have been wrong everytime so far.

Well I'll bet in 24 months "experts" who say Hong Kong flu numbers were worse than COVID numbers won't be quite so vocal.    

But it's moot.  Different bugs, different times, different situation.

I should reiterate that I'm happy our society/economy is reopening.  For the time being most Americans will alter at least some behaviors like washing their grubby mitts more often.  That's good.  Some won't.  That's bad.   It is what it is,  it will be what it will be...

[The emperor has no clothes]

The "experts" guesses have been wrong everytime so far.

Incorrect. Some have been pretty cursed close.

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/05/13/855038708/combining-different-models-new-coronavirus-projection-shows-110-000-deaths-by-ju

[Oss]

You NEVER know how many

You can only guess

But who gains by what results is what bothers me

[98valk]

The "experts" guesses have been wrong everytime so far.

Incorrect. Some have been pretty cursed close.

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/05/13/855038708/combining-different-models-new-coronavirus-projection-shows-110-000-deaths-by-ju

NPR, I have to laugh, but I figured as much from
https://www.mrc.org/bozells-column/npr-admits-liberal-bias

Last week, NPR's own official ombudsman, Jeffrey Dvorkin, admitted a liberal bias in NPR's talk programming.

The only ones who seem not to know that the left has a massive, taxpayer-funded radio network of 700 affiliates are the liberals

https://nypost.com/2017/10/21/the-other-half-of-america-that-the-liberal-media-doesnt-cover/

Most reporters and editors are liberal — a now-dated Pew Research Center poll found that liberals outnumber conservatives in the media by some 5 to 1, and that comports with my own anecdotal experience at National Public Radio. When you are liberal, and everyone else around you is as well, it is easy to fall into groupthink on what stories are important, what sources are legitimate and what the narrative of the day will be.

This may seem like an unusual admission from someone who once ran NPR,

[Valkorado]

https://torontosun.com/news/local-news/braun-what-if-they-declared-a-pandemic-and-no-one-noticed

[The emperor has no clothes]

https://torontosun.com/news/local-news/braun-what-if-they-declared-a-pandemic-and-no-one-noticed

Couldn’t agree more !

[carolinarider09]

So, I ask the collective here, what then is the difference between 1968 and 2020?  Its certainly not that COVID19 is more deadly than the Hong Kong flu.  I have offered reasonable evidence that it is not.  

So, what is different about COVID19? The time to develop a vaccine is reportedly the same as in 1968-1969.  So, again I ask what is the difference?  

Is it that human life is more important today then it was 52 years ago?  I think not.

So, what is different about COVID19?  

First off, I would dispute your assertion that they 1968 Hong Kong flu was worse than this Covid19. The Hong Kong flu killed 100,000 in the U.S. over a 2 year time frame. We are at 96,000 in 3 months with a lockdown over most of the country. Who knows where the number would be without it, or where the number will be at the 2 year mark. To your question of what is different from 52 years ago. Much. Science, Technology, Medicine, Information to name a few.

First off, the 100,000 number was in the US. The number I used was worldwide.  However ,the US population that was 200,000,000 then, today its 330,000,000.  You can do the math but I have done it before.  You can look at my other posts. 

Second the lock down was about slowing the spread, not preventing the spread.  The spread was slowed down, and there is no proof that the lock down has minimized the total number of cases.  That, again, was not the reason for the lock down. 

In summary because we have better science, better technology, better medicine, and better information we decided to lock down the entire country. Got it. 

[Willow]

...
Second the lock down was about slowing the spread, not preventing the spread.  The spread was slowed down, and there is no proof that the lock down has minimized the total number of cases.  That, again, was not the reason for the lock down. 

In summary because we have better science, better technology, better medicine, and better information we decided to lock down the entire country. Got it. 

Yes!!!  Let me say one more time, the lock down saved no lives!  It did however do great damage to the economical and social structure of the country.

[carolinarider09]

Why Didn't the 1958 and 1918 Pandemics Destroy the Economy? Hint: It's the Lockdowns

The link below is about the Pandemics of 1958 and 1918, however the last paragraph is relates these to what is happening today. 

Here is the quote, regarding the effect of the economic shutdown.

The cost in terms of human life will be significant. One study contends that the current economic downturn could lead to seventy-five thousand "deaths of despair." This is not shocking, however, since the fatal effects of unemployment and economic decline have been known for decades.

Defenders of lockdowns will likely continue to claim that "we have no choice" but to continue lockdowns for long periods of time. At the very least, many claim that the lockdowns until now have been "worth it." Yet the efficacy of lockdowns remains an open question, and has hardly been proven. Meanwhile, the world faces the worst economic disaster experienced in centuries. It didn't have to be this way.

https://mises.org/wire/why-didnt-1958-and-1918-pandemics-destroy-economy-hint-its-lockdowns

[Moonshot_1]

...
Second the lock down was about slowing the spread, not preventing the spread.  The spread was slowed down, and there is no proof that the lock down has minimized the total number of cases.  That, again, was not the reason for the lock down. 

In summary because we have better science, better technology, better medicine, and better information we decided to lock down the entire country. Got it. 

Yes!!!  Let me say one more time, the lock down saved no lives!  It did however do great damage to the economical and social structure of the country.

Not quite true. There was a woman that was cheating on her husband with this guy and because of the lockdown the guy couldn't make it to her house anymore. Had he been able, the models show conclusively that he would have been caught and killed by the husband. Conclusively. Other than that, the lockdown pretty much was a waste.

[Willow]

Not quite true. There was a woman that was cheating on her husband with this guy and because of the lockdown the guy couldn't make it to her house anymore. Had he been able, the models show conclusively that he would have been caught and killed by the husband. Conclusively. Other than that, the lockdown pretty much was a waste.

LOL!  I stand corrected.  There may have been multiple lives saved under similar conditions.  They fade though next to the lives lost in an economic downturn.   

[John Schmidt]

My dad's favorite saying: "figures don't lie, but liers figure."  My guess is that when all is said and done, the actual count for the virus deaths won't be anywhere near what is even considered a Covid death now. Good example was the guy in Colorado that drank himself to death with a blood count of .55, yet the medical examiner was forced to call it a Covid related death because during the autopsy it was found he tested positive for C-19. The examiner said the virus had nothing to do with his death, his over 50% alcohol in his blood stream did. Do a little research and you'll find this is not a single example, in my view that's why the 100k or so deaths during this time is grossly overstated.

[Jess from VA]

I once represented a guy for DUI that blew a .42.  .40 can coma or kill people. (acute alcohol poisoning)

Not only was he driving (poorly), but he was walking around and talking, and trying to pass sobriety tests (also poorly).

The judge was asking the policeman all the facts on the stand.

He told the cop...  I believe this is the highest BAT I've ever seen in a DUI case.    Yes sir, it's pretty high.

How was this man still conscious, walking and talking officer?

Well judge, I'm no doctor, but all I can figure is he's had a lot of practice at it sir.

The judge then banged his gavel and told everyone to stop laughing.

I did my best for the guy, but wasn't unhappy his license was revoked (not suspended), among other things.

[Serk]

The CDC's New 'Best Estimate' Implies a COVID-19 Infection Fatality Rate Below 0.3%

"It assumes an overall symptomatic case fatality rate (CFR) of 0.4 percent, falling to 0.05 percent among people younger than 50 and rising to 1.3 percent among people 65 and older. For people in the middle (ages 50–64), the estimated CFR is 0.2 percent."


https://reason.com/2020/05/24/the-cdcs-new-best-estimate-implies-a-covid-19-infection-fatality-rate-below-0-3/

[scooperhsd]

I once represented a guy for DUI that blew a .42.  .40 can coma or kill people. (acute alcohol poisoning)

Not only was he driving (poorly), but he was walking around and talking, and trying to pass sobriety tests (also poorly).

The judge was asking the policeman all the facts on the stand.

He told the cop...  I believe this is the highest BAT I've ever seen in a DUI case.    Yes sir, it's pretty high.

How was this man still conscious, walking and talking officer?

Well judge, I'm no doctor, but all I can figure is he's had a lot of practice at it sir.

The judge then banged his gavel and told everyone to stop laughing.

I did my best for the guy, but wasn't unhappy his license was revoked (not suspended), among other things.

The only commentary I can give on that, is that revoking their license will NOT stop them from driving. To do that, you need to throw them into jail.

[carolinarider09]

According to the CDC website referenced below the influenza morbidity for the flu was as follows.
(Note:  The chart is hard to read because of the text size, even when I magnify it).

2017-2018 - 0.13%
2016-2017 - 0.13%
2015-2016 - 0.10%
2014-2015 - 0.13%
2013-2014 - 0.10%
2012-2013 - 0.13%

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/index.html

[3fan4life]

USPS Defies Orders To Close Denver Sorting Facility That Handles Mail For All Of Colorado

https://denver.cbslocal.com/2020/05/22/usps-refuses-orders-close-denver-sorting-facility-mail-colorado-wyoming/

https://www.newsweek.com/denver-usps-facility-ordered-close-after-employees-reportedly-test-positive-coronavirus-1506067

This is a clear example of State and Local authorities thinking that they weld more power than they do.

The postal facility is a United States Government Facility.

They have no more authority to order it to shut down than they have to order the shut down of a military base.

[Valkorado]

Second the lock down was about slowing the spread, not preventing the spread.  

Sort of.

The initial lockdown was about flattening the curve, or reducing the burden on hospitals to prevent unnecessary death due to overcrowding.  In countries like Italy it was evident that when hospitals became overwhelmed people unnecessarily died die to a lack of resources, bedding and equipment.  So, the initial lockdown may not have been about preventing the spread but saving lives was absolutely part of their rationale.  Whether it was a good idea will be debated for decades.  I'm not convinced that it was.  I guess I'm not convinced it wasn't, either.  I am glad things are moving on and opening up...