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Author Topic: Bridging the Creek (Construction Question)  (Read 2915 times)
carolinarider09
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Newberry, SC


« on: May 28, 2020, 11:18:30 AM »

I have a creek at the back of my Property.  At one end, the creek banks are low enough that crossing is easy.  However, further up the creek, the banks are fairly deep (see image below for rough scale).

I would like to build a single walking bridge across the creek.  The span of the creek is probably about 16 feet.  So, the bridge would have to be in the neighborhood of 24 feet long.  I would limit the width to less then four feet. 

I don't want to support the center of the bridge in the creek itself or into the banks below the span across the creek. 

If the bridge was only going to be a 16 foot span, I'd just put two 16 foot 6 x 6's across and anchor them at the ends. 

My wife suggested that we might someone local to build one but I thought I'd ask here to see if anyone has done this before and has any ideas of how it could be done

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..
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Maggie Valley, NC


« Reply #1 on: May 28, 2020, 11:53:17 AM »

If you hadn't seen these.

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=build+a+24+foot+span+footbrige&atb=v95-1&iax=images&ia=images

http://mathemati.ca/1_24foot.html



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f6john
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Richmond, Kentucky


« Reply #2 on: May 28, 2020, 12:03:57 PM »

If it just to be a walk bridge, I’d go to a pole barn supplier and buy a couple of 24’ 8x8’s if that’s sufficient length to do the job and call it a day. A more expensive option would be to buy some LVL’s of sufficient length to do the job but then you would have to deal with wrapping or sealing the lvl’s to protect them from the weather.
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henry 008
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willard, oh


« Reply #3 on: May 28, 2020, 12:04:33 PM »

I used some steel I beams for a bridge i made for the local golf course. it's been used now for 20 years and still is in great shape. its wide enough for golf carts to run over it.
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Safe Winds... Brother

Jess from VA
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No VA


« Reply #4 on: May 28, 2020, 12:28:52 PM »

My brother went through this years ago, except his had to take big trucks and equipment over it.

My dad the civil engineer designed it, and it had steel, concrete and wood in it.

But the big problem he ran into was state (and possibly Fed) EPA regulator beaurocrap types who said he was probably disturbing a wetlands.  They even thought maybe he should pay for a quarter million dollar environmental impact statement.  And his creek was more of big ditch than a creek, though apparently big ditches are just as important to wetlands governance as actual creeks and rivers.

The moral to this is, whatever you do, do not discuss this project with any government people at all.  Or any contractor who would feel compelled to report it to any govt officials.  If they ever ask about it later, tell them it was there when you bought the place.  

It probably doesn't suit your purpose, but how about finding a tall tree, climbing it, and installing a big Tarzan swing across it?   Grin  

Or, if you find two trees fairly close together, you could drop them both across, lever them together and use them as supports for a tread path.  
« Last Edit: May 28, 2020, 12:37:51 PM by Jess from VA » Logged
hubcapsc
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upstate

South Carolina


« Reply #5 on: May 28, 2020, 01:16:25 PM »


They threw a big pipe in the creek behind me and backfilled
with dirt and rocks. What a mess the first time the creek
went up Smiley ...

Whatever you decide (looks like your creek is little and down
deep in a gully) make sure your bridge won't get overrun
when the creek goes up.

-Mike
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carolinarider09
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Newberry, SC


« Reply #6 on: May 28, 2020, 02:24:52 PM »

Thanks Gentlemen for all the information. 

I did not know that they made bridge kits.  Will look into this one.  I can afford it.  The only issue would be the concrete pads at either end of the bridge that appear to be used for anchor points.  I can mix and pour concrete by hand but that might be more than a few bags  Smiley

http://mathemati.ca/1_24foot.html

I also had not even thought about pole barn supplies.  I did not know that made 24' 8" x 8".  Thats also easy.  The only issue would be getting the 8" x 8" down to the creek.  I suspect that are heavy.  I can use my tractor to drag them down there but getting them across would be a little more difficult.  Wonder what each one weighs. 

Regarding felling some trees.  There is a dead 50 foot plus 30" (well I have never measured its width or height but it is old and big) diameter dead pine near the creek.  I have considered felling it but then I would have to worry about finding a second one and then worry about it slowly rotting. 

Don't even know if my 18" Husqvarna chain saw would even have a chance of making a controlled fall of the tree. 

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Rams
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Covington, TN


« Reply #7 on: May 28, 2020, 08:34:36 PM »

Have you considered a cable bridge?

Requires some good anchors but, not hard to build and kind of fun to cross/use.  A few cables, some 2 X 6s, concrete and other items but well worth it.  (Especially if is swings a bit).

Rams
« Last Edit: May 28, 2020, 08:45:00 PM by Rams » Logged

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MarkT
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« Reply #8 on: May 29, 2020, 06:46:46 AM »

In terms of easy and inexpensive construction, I like the big corrugated culvert tube, with backfill over it idea. Probably more intrusive on the waterway however.
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henry 008
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willard, oh


« Reply #9 on: May 29, 2020, 07:11:03 AM »

if you go with a culvert tube, look into getting an oval one. they handle water much better than a round 1.
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Safe Winds... Brother

The emperor has no clothes
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« Reply #10 on: May 29, 2020, 07:20:45 AM »

Thanks Gentlemen for all the information. 

I did not know that they made bridge kits.  Will look into this one.  I can afford it.  The only issue would be the concrete pads at either end of the bridge that appear to be used for anchor points.  I can mix and pour concrete by hand but that might be more than a few bags  Smiley

http://mathemati.ca/1_24foot.html

I also had not even thought about pole barn supplies.  I did not know that made 24' 8" x 8".  Thats also easy.  The only issue would be getting the 8" x 8" down to the creek.  I suspect that are heavy.  I can use my tractor to drag them down there but getting them across would be a little more difficult.  Wonder what each one weighs. 

Regarding felling some trees.  There is a dead 50 foot plus 30" (well I have never measured its width or height but it is old and big) diameter dead pine near the creek.  I have considered felling it but then I would have to worry about finding a second one and then worry about it slowly rotting. 

Don't even know if my 18" Husqvarna chain saw would even have a chance of making a controlled fall of the tree. 


It looks like you have a couple trees in pretty close position. A chainsaw and a come-a-long should work pretty well.
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carolinarider09
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Newberry, SC


« Reply #11 on: May 29, 2020, 07:24:19 AM »

Rams,  

I have thought about a "suspension bridge".  The only issue is, as you have mentioned, the anchors.  

In theory I might be able to get by with screw in supports similar to those used by utility companies.

In theory, it would allow me to use two 16 foot 6 x 6's for each rail with a bolted joint at the point of the middle of the bridge.  The only other issue would be the cutting and attaching the cables from the support cable to the bridge.  I would have to do some research as to what size cable would be needed, both for the main cable arch and the support cables.

In theory, the only load on the bridge would be the material on the bridge (besides the 6x6's) which would be 2x6's probably.  Just a a guess, if the bridge spans 20 feet using 2x6 boards, the weight of those boards would be.....  lets see 24 feet, two boards per foot, so 48 boards.  Maybe 200 - 300 pounds dead weight.  With someone on the bridge, maybe an additional 250 pounds.  

Regarding a culvert, the creek banks are almost 10 feet deep and while a culvert would work (its not a big creek) regarding water flow, maybe it would have to be maybe 4 feet in diameter and would have to be buried to some degree below the water line to accommodate the nominal flow.  Or so it would seem.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2020, 07:37:21 AM by carolinarider09 » Logged

carolinarider09
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Newberry, SC


« Reply #12 on: May 29, 2020, 07:34:16 AM »

Regarding the tress and using them..  I will take a couple more pictures today to show the proposed location of the bridge.  

And yes I have the chainsaw and the come along (well two actually depending on what distance needs to be spanned).  I sort of want to keep the trees as is.

A wind storm we had a month or so ago, felled several large oaks and a pine or two (casualties of the oaks being felled).  



If you look to the left on the image above you will see an orange flag.  That marks the property line.  This tree was located on adjacent property by maybe 10 feet or so.  It fell onto my property.  Not a complaint just an observation.  I have similar trees that have felled due to wind on my property by the creek.



And after the image above after and during some cleanup.  This is the lower end of the creek where the banks are very low, about 300 feet from where I want the bridge.  

« Last Edit: May 29, 2020, 07:40:37 AM by carolinarider09 » Logged

carolinarider09
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Newberry, SC


« Reply #13 on: May 29, 2020, 11:49:20 AM »

Here is what the proposed location looks like.  I looked around the area looking for support in the banks and clear areas on both sides with minimum possibility for trees falling on the bridge.  





Looking down into the creek.



« Last Edit: May 29, 2020, 11:51:52 AM by carolinarider09 » Logged

Bighead
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Madison Alabama


« Reply #14 on: May 29, 2020, 12:12:43 PM »

Might I suggest a polevault pole Evil sorry I am no help but couldnt help it 2funny
If it were me I think I would go with a cable suspension bridge. Some good 8x8’son either side. And would peobably be the fastest and most inexpensive.
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Jess from VA
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« Reply #15 on: May 29, 2020, 01:05:54 PM »

It would be a bit red-neckian, but it looks to me like a couple close-by 10-12" trees could be dropped, trimmed, and drug into place and used to lay treads on.  Live trees as support will likely outlive you before rotting enough to fail.  They could be sprayed to kill bugs (occasionally) (as opposed to debarked, which is a big PITA).  Rough leveling could be done by digging out the banks a bit, where necessary.

I would not use any BIG trees; just too much work/danger moving/dragging them around.

To drop across the creek, besides proper cutting/notching, a rope tied up as high as you can get, and pulled hard to start them falling in the proper direction works pretty well.  (The puller may need to be a runner though)

If there was one BIG tree perfectly positioned to fall across where you want it (without ever having to be moved much after the drop), that could be made to work with treads by shimming up on each side of the truck to lay and secure the treads to.  It just needs to not roll to either side, later.

None of that will be as nice as a proper bridge (however constructed), but for just occasional use only, and completely out of sight, it seems a reasonable solution.

All of it seems like back breaking (and finger smashing) work though.  

A completely different idea would be to dig out rough steps down two banks and laying flat field stone on the steps.  But this still leaves a jump across at the bottom.  And this may erode over time.

All this reminds me of something that happened way back when I was in USAF Squadron Officer's School.  During some night maneuvers in the woods, just after I crossed a rope bridge, one of the support trees on one side just gave way and collapsed the whole bridge, with guys on it.  It was pure luck that no one got seriously mashed by the falling tree.


What the tactical officers did to us that night was:  When we didn't perform to their satisfaction (which was sure to happen), they declared one of our 7-8 man teams (with females) injured, and then we had to lug him along on a stretcher for the rest of the night.  They never stuck a female in the stretcher, it was always some 185-200lb guy.  And the females couldn't lug the stretcher for more than a minute or two without collapsing.  A pleasant summer night in southern Alabama, with bugs, and rain.  What marvelous fun it was too.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2020, 01:31:53 PM by Jess from VA » Logged
carolinarider09
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Newberry, SC


« Reply #16 on: May 29, 2020, 01:31:06 PM »

Thanks Jess.

I had not considered the steps but, the creek has actually formed over many years as runoff from a place upstream.  Its not on my property and it might have been a real creek before that but, its basically, as with most water ways, a result of water running down hill.

I just measured the place I am considering building the bridge and its about 22 feet across (accounting for a bridge area landing on both sides).  The open part is probably 14 feet across at the top.

We have an excellent local hardware store that has access to a wide variety of stuff that they do not stock.  I am going to see if they can provide me with two 8x8 24' "poles" ground contact rated. 
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Jess from VA
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No VA


« Reply #17 on: May 29, 2020, 01:34:25 PM »

Jim, I know you know this, but if it's not your property, you know the true owner can make you take whatever you do down.  Keep it in mind.  (money and work)  Or he could seek a trespass charge (so admit nothing).
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carolinarider09
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Newberry, SC


« Reply #18 on: May 29, 2020, 01:40:57 PM »

Yes and the area for the bride is clearly on my property.  The area by the large dead pine is right on the property line and that is one of the reasons I did not select that area.

When I retired a couple of years ago, one of the first things I did was re-walk the property linesand flag it for future reference. 

One never knows when something might come up. 
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Hook#3287
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Brimfield, Ma


« Reply #19 on: May 29, 2020, 04:15:46 PM »

You might want to check local and state regulations pertaining to wet lands construction.

Can't speak to SC, but in MA within 100' of wetland, a visit to local Conservation Commission is required.

If less than 50', then you get to visit state DEP.

I can tell you the fines for not doing so, if required, are very steep.
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carolinarider09
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Newberry, SC


« Reply #20 on: May 29, 2020, 05:29:55 PM »

I shall keep the Wetlands Construction thing in mind.  But I wonder how they would feel about mother nature.   

Zoe on a old pine across the creek.  By the way I call it a creek because, well just because.  I have walked across that tree many times but, when its wet with the wrong shoes its a bit slippery, and it is slowly rotting. 

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da prez
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. Rhinelander Wi. Island Lake Il.


« Reply #21 on: May 30, 2020, 07:35:05 AM »

  I have helped build a couple , but the attached items are fantastic. I have a future project on going up north. They will be put To good use.

                                   da prez

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carolinarider09
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Newberry, SC


« Reply #22 on: May 30, 2020, 08:14:10 AM »

I am going to do some prototype work in the next few days to see what the layout will look like.  I have some 2x6 that I have set aside (was to be used in decking but they are too warped for my taste) and will see what the span might look like.  Just to get an idea of how it might all lay out.
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carolinarider09
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Newberry, SC


« Reply #23 on: May 30, 2020, 11:10:57 AM »

Laid out a couple of 2x12's to see how it might look and the what the real span might be.  Anchoring landings will be an issue.  Thought about maybe burying some concrete blocks as landing points and filling the openings with cement for the anchor bolts. 

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cookiedough
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southern WI


« Reply #24 on: May 30, 2020, 12:03:00 PM »

If was me,  I would do what Jess recommended and get some downed trees, cut them to size preferably manageable size with some eqmt.,  if needed,  lay them across the creek, and be done with it.  Not worth wasting money on something that mother nature provides for free and will work just fine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsIBIj4bTeQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6K1iMp5_udw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTZU8NqkSU4
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carolinarider09
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Newberry, SC


« Reply #25 on: May 30, 2020, 12:12:46 PM »

I did watch the videos. Its a thought.
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Jess from VA
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« Reply #26 on: May 30, 2020, 12:21:33 PM »

I also though about going down to the local junk yards and wandering around to see if they might have something that would do the trick (or most of it), for small money.  Except hauling it out there could be a problem. 

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Patrick
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VRCC 4474

Largo Florida


« Reply #27 on: May 31, 2020, 05:50:53 AM »

I was thinking about a chainsaw too. Fall a couple over that crick, hold the ends off the ground with blocks, a herd of treated 2x6's and you're good for a half century.
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h13man
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To everything there is an exception.

Indiana NW Central Flatlands


« Reply #28 on: May 31, 2020, 06:55:49 AM »

Two steel I beams supported on concrete piers on each side and treated wood walkway or steel grating. Cost effective, don't know but the strongest and simplest construction IMT.   Smiley
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carolinarider09
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Newberry, SC


« Reply #29 on: May 31, 2020, 07:36:50 AM »

The steel I-bean idea did cross my mind.  The only reason that wood would be my preferred method (logs or treated lumber) is that its easier to work with. 

While I have a welder, getting power down to this are would be difficult.  And while i have an oxy acetylene torch which could be used, it has not been used in some time.  Just used it to cut some angle iron and build a small trailer some years ago.

Still investigation options. 
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gordonv
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Richmond BC


« Reply #30 on: May 31, 2020, 09:25:38 AM »

My first thought was this guy.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=grandpa+making+a+bridge

Makes a lot of great things, with his wood skills.

The first link trust bridge is the better one. Mounts away from the sides. called a Leonardo da Vinci

How much money/time did you want to put into it? Fall a couple of reasonable trees, and trim the tops off to make a flat surface to walk along. A roll of rubber treading for those wet slippery days.

Would love to see what you do.


I like watching the off grid things. Heard of a ram pump? I would also do a hydro turbine, wind mill, and the like, if I had the property to do this on.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2020, 12:10:32 PM by gordonv » Logged

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carolinarider09
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Newberry, SC


« Reply #31 on: May 31, 2020, 10:19:59 AM »

Nope I had not heard of a ram pump, but when I looked it up, I seem to remember the physics of it and I might have, many years ago, seen some information on it but, I do tend to be more forgetful these days.

The only issue I have with felling trees is, I don't need to.   I know.    They can be replaced and, over time, you won't know they were gone.  And, if I use wood, that wood came from trees as well.  So....  two edged sword on the notion of felling trees. 

If you want to see what the area looks like, two months ago I did a video of a walking tour.  The area where I want to place the bridge is near the 5:40 mark. 

And, after reviewing the video there is a felled tree across the creek.  It might be useable.  I will keep that in mind as I move forward. 

https://youtu.be/rtQQj8StMaE


Prototype just for planning purposes.  Its four feet short.  Used available materials just to see how it might work.

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hubcapsc
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upstate

South Carolina


« Reply #32 on: May 31, 2020, 10:47:44 AM »


My neighbor Dan has a gully like that. He has always talked about cutting a
tree down to make a bridge over to the finger of land he has on the other side.
The other day I heard a bunch of chainsaw-big-tree-falling noises down
in the woods and I went down there. Dan and the kids were there making
the bridge.



My other neighbor has land on the other side of the creek. The creek can
turn into the Colorado River if we have a flash flood. He had to make a
real bridge with raised footers on each side and two... very long... I beams.



-Mike

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Patrick
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VRCC 4474

Largo Florida


« Reply #33 on: June 01, 2020, 04:48:18 AM »


My neighbor Dan has a gully like that. He has always talked about cutting a
tree down to make a bridge over to the finger of land he has on the other side.
The other day I heard a bunch of chainsaw-big-tree-falling noises down
in the woods and I went down there. Dan and the kids were there making
the bridge.



My other neighbor has land on the other side of the creek. The creek can
turn into the Colorado River if we have a flash flood. He had to make a
real bridge with raised footers on each side and two... very long... I beams.



-Mike






I like Dans bridge.  Isn't it a bit difficult to get a 4 wheeler across though.  Smiley Smiley  Just kidding of course. Thats pretty much what I would do, 2 logs and 2x planks.
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carolinarider09
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Newberry, SC


« Reply #34 on: June 01, 2020, 10:59:17 AM »

I have no problem with the logs, and there is a large felled oak nearby.  The problem becomes moving the log.  I can try and use my tractor to drag it but it is unlikely it would be able to.

Its a 1998 MF1250.  Just the tractor no front end loader, while that would help....  I would still have to tow it over and then across and I can't get the tractor to the other side. 

So, if we have another wind storm and a couple of trees are blown down right there across the creek, I'll use them. 

Until then, while I like the 24 foot 8 X 8's, I still have to drag them down there and across.  Across is not  areal issue, but still a consideration. 

What I am looking at now is the potential of using a laminated beam of 2 x 8's.  The only potential issue with them is that if I truly laminate them, the glue has to be absorbed by the wood which was be treated and probably still damp from the treatment. 

If I did that I would use screws for initial assembly and then galvanized bolts for final support. 

It has the advantage of being able to be built on site with 16 foot and 8 foot members. 
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Valker
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Wahoo!!!!

Texas Panhandle


« Reply #35 on: June 01, 2020, 11:09:15 AM »

Remember that a pulley and rope system can be used to pull the logs across the gap from one side.
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ridingron
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Orlando


« Reply #36 on: June 01, 2020, 02:27:09 PM »

Quote
...  What I am looking at now is the potential of using a laminated beam of 2 x 8's.  The only potential issue with them is that if I truly laminate them, the glue has to be absorbed by the wood which was be treated and probably still damp from the treatment.  ...


If you go this way, may I suggest glue, screw and clamp all the plys as you stack them. Try to avoid the joints lining up with one another.

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carolinarider09
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Newberry, SC


« Reply #37 on: June 01, 2020, 03:09:31 PM »

Yes, I have used a tripod, pulley thing type arrangement for another project.  And I can anchor the pulley system to a tree, probably. 

Regarding the plys/joints, my first thought was to simulate the 8x8 with 2x8's.  Since the maximum length would be 16 feet for each 2x8, I had thought to use a 2x8x16 for the center board and then fill in the 24'  length with a 2x8x4 on each end. 

The rational is that the spot where the crossing is currently planned is about 16 feet from bank to bank.  So, on one side it might be in contact with the bank, but not the other side. 

The logic is that I don't want the center of the span to have a joint except on tow of the five boards to be used. 
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OnaWingandaPrayer
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Posts: 592


« Reply #38 on: June 01, 2020, 05:31:50 PM »

A school bus chassis should work out great. 2 rails connected with crossmembers, long straight and near flat  on the top edge. Just plank it with your 2X6s. Sourcing and moving it might be another situation.
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Jess from VA
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No VA


« Reply #39 on: June 01, 2020, 06:54:27 PM »

I'd still want a Tarzan swing, even if I made a bridge.   Grin

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