states/cities required to wear masks

[Patrick]

I was in Lowes this am and a fella came up to me bitching about my lack of a mask. I stuck out arm keeping him at arms length, reached into my pocket and put the mask on all the while smiling at him explaining that this was the way to wear one. His was below his nose with upper lip showing. Some people feel the need to be obnoxious.



All this in a county with 4 covid deaths.

[Valkorado]

I'd say it's certainly not a stretch to believe a novel respiratory virus could spread easily (like wildfire, as some scientists say) via aerosol transmission.  Considering this feasible and taking adequate precautions seems legitimate behavior -- especially for those of us with pre-existing conditions that could result in complications.

I won't lose sleep if ridiculed for it, tho.  

[Willow]

You might want to read this excellent article I linked last month:  https://www.erinbromage.com/post/the-risks-know-them-avoid-them

The detail on mass spread events, including diagrams of people who became infected in adjacent workspaces, and restaurant tables, makes a very good case for aerosol transmission.

Like you, I want to minimize my risk of catching this disease.  That means identifying situations you should avoid, or at least take precautions.  The above article helps in making informed choices.

Rather than making a good case for aerosol transmission it makes a good opportunity for an assumption of aerosol transmission.  People in adjacent areas tend to touch the same things.  You may be right about aerosol transmission but I just refuse to live my life in fearful isolation.  Life is what life is.  I plan to live until my time comes.

[..]

https://www.northcarolinahealthnews.org/2020/06/24/coronavirus-today-june-24/

[Serk]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hl_8uKqipS4

[carolinarider09]

Serk, I saw that as well its a rational experiment. 

Regarding the masks, more cases, ect.  I posted this in the "other" thread.  This is the CDC (yes I know the CDC) numbers for COVID19 deaths through June 20, 2020.

You will note, the number of deaths has decreased since April of 2020.  No word in the MSM about this, not much on hear about this. 

Cases up but deaths down.  What does that mean?   The people testing positive are better able to cope with the diease, increasing the notion of herd immunity. 

So, why the push for masks?    I firmly believe its an attempt to ensure we know who is in charge. 

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/index.htm

So, if the number of deaths has continued to decline, what about the hospitalizations you ask. 

That number to has flattened (again from the CDC and yes I know). 

https://gis.cdc.gov/grasp/COVIDNet/COVID19_3.html

So, its a plan to control us, make us fear, make us afraid, allow them to control us. 

 

[RP#62]

If the democrats win, you'll never hear about the 'rona again.  Everything will be fabulous.

-RP

[Valkorado]

If the democrats win, you'll never hear about the 'rona again.  Everything will be fabulous.

-RP

So that's when it will "magically disappear".  I knew one of the parties must have the magic bullet in their possession, but I thought for sure it was going to be the GOP. 

I don't think C19 gives a hoot about our affiliations.  BTW I do vote red, for other reasons.

[RP#62]

If the democrats win, you'll never hear about the 'rona again.  Everything will be fabulous.

-RP

So that's when it will "magically disappear".  I knew one of the parties must have the magic bullet in their possession, but I thought for sure it was going to be the GOP. 

I don't think C19 gives a hoot about our affiliations.  BTW I do vote red, for other reasons.

My comments were from a press coverage point of view.

-RP

[Valkorado]

If the democrats win, you'll never hear about the 'rona again.  Everything will be fabulous.

-RP

So that's when it will "magically disappear".  I knew one of the parties must have the magic bullet in their possession, but I thought for sure it was going to be the GOP. 

I don't think C19 gives a hoot about our affiliations.  BTW I do vote red, for other reasons.

My comments were from a press coverage point of view.

-RP

That said, I agree 100%.

[Bighead]

Cookie come on the fact is You CAN breath. Anyone says they cant is full of BS. I dont wear one except where ask to. I have worn them daily for 35 yrs and not ONCE have I not been able to breath. If your company says wear it you should or you might be in that line looking for work. Just sayin.
Also I dont think any county - city or state can legally fine you without it being a LAW.  IF  it is a law will it ever be lifted or will you be required by LAW to wear one forever in that County-City or Sate?

how do you know I cannot breath, are you me?  I must be full of BS then?   

Did you ever pass out from wearing one? If not you could breath........ and if you say you can’t breath wearing one yet walking around you are not passed out from oxygen deprivation then Yes you answered your own question.

[Valkorado]

Just print yourself one of these Cookie.  You're all set!

[Serk]

Just print yourself one of these Cookie.  You're all set!

https://www.fox4news.com/news/face-mask-exemption-cards-circulating-online-are-fake-doj-says

[Valkorado]

Doctors unleash on politics as coronavirus spikes: 'No other country debates masks'

New coronavirus diagnoses in the United States are skyrocketing — along with criticisms about the patchwork of state and local policies that are faltering in the effort to prevent community transmission of the virus.

As Sun Belt states like Arizona, California, Florida and Texas become new epicenters of the COVID-19 pandemic, attention has shifted to the increasingly polarizing debate over protocols designed to contain new infections.

State lockdowns have gradually relaxed, and the public has mostly adjusted to life behind face coverings — but not without fits and starts. Pew Research data released this week show that at least 65% of Americans have adopted the near constant use of personal protective equipment (PPE).

However, social distancing and the use of masks in public have become a source of contention among those who feel it violates their personal freedoms.

In a series of interviews, doctors on the front lines in states where COVID-19 infections are exploding lamented the controversy in stark terms. They argue that mixed messages from mayors, governors and President Donald Trump are making it harder for people to appreciate the need for masking — especially as infections among younger citizens jump sharply.

“Honestly the politicization of science is one of our incredible societal downfalls. Science should not be politics,” Dr. Hilary Fairbrother, a Houston emergency medicine physician, told Yahoo Finance on Wednesday. The Lone Star state is in the throes of a record number of cases that threatens to overwhelm health systems in major cities like Dallas and Houston.

Fairbrother said the debate has become a Hobson’s choice that lacks nuance, between those who want to “close down the entire world for at least 3 years until there is no coronavirus left in any corner of the planet,” and others who are unconcerned about rising casualties.

“There’s no middle ground, there’s no common sense or application of good science,” she added. “I beg people to start listening to scientists, and stop listening to politicians on all things coronavirus.”   

‘A very different culture’

When the outbreak first led to mass restrictions on public life, some experts cautioned that Americans — accustomed as they are to constitutionally protected freedoms — were ill-prepared to accept how a raging pandemic would affect their quality of life.

Those warnings have been proven prescient, as quarantine fatigue and protests against social injustice have led many to abandon anti-coronavirus protections designed to bend the curve of new infections.

Many of the states now on the outbreak’s front lines are struggling to balance individual rights with the mandates of a public health crisis, and falling short of the mark. Citizens, as well as investors, are banking on the idea that the latest surge of infections won’t lead to a renewal of restrictive stay-at-home orders that crushed the global economy.

“I’m not a constitutional scholar but this is what happens when you try and use federalism at the science level,” said Dr. Murtaza Akhter, an assistant professor in the University of Arizona’s Department of Emergency Medicine. The Grand Canyon State has nearly 60,000 cases and around 1500 deaths, and has been the center of a raucous public debate over mask-wearing in public.

“The fact that people are still saying ‘this is America, do what you want’ that’s fine from a legal or constitutional perspective, but from a public health and science perspective that’s a terrible idea,” Akhter said.

“We have a very different culture here. There’s no other country I know of in the world that debates masks,” Akhter added. “People don't even debate seatbelts anymore... but to debate masks during a pandemic is so utterly ironic that it's hard to comprehend.”

Akhter, who accused Arizona’s governor of “passing the buck” on using face masks, said the coronavirus “doesn’t know state, city borders or national borders, it transcends all borders and all people. So the problem with having some people wearing masks and others not wearing them, is that the threat [of spreading] is still going to be there.”

In Houston, where hospital capacity is nearing a breaking point, the dire situation has become an empirical study in how a lack of policy coordination can lead to dire consequences. Texas Governor Greg Abbott has come under fire for downplaying the need for masks, and allowing mayors to make their own calls for a mandate.

“The biggest concern is that we’re going to lose a handle on the situation,” Cedric Dark, an assistant professor at Texas’ Baylor College of Medicine, told Yahoo Finance.  He was critical of Abbott’s decision to reopen the economy in May, despite an earlier suggestion that the state could corral a COVID-19 surge.

After the reopening, “those cases started going up, not only linearly but exponentially,” Dark said.

“Unless we battle it back now, we’re going to be forced to shut everything down [again]...I think people need to realize it. We need to dial it back and go back to where we were in Phase 1,” the physician added.

[Willow]

Doctors unleash on politics as coronavirus spikes: 'No other country debates masks'

...
“Honestly the politicization of science is one of our incredible societal downfalls. Science should not be politics,” Dr. Hilary Fairbrother, ...

Legal orders and laws are political.  While standing up and shouting that science should not be in politics the doctor desires politics through legal orders and laws should allow the claimed representatives of science to dictate to them.  Ironic, isn't it?

...
However, social distancing and the use of masks in public have become a source of contention among those who feel it violates their personal freedoms.
...  

That's a wide assumption.  There are some who resist wearing masks because they think it is stupid and doesn't achieve what it is represented to do.

...
New coronavirus diagnoses in the United States are skyrocketing ...  

The numbers simply don't support that repeated claim.  Yes, there are spots, mostly dense population areas, where the cases are occurring but to say they are skyrocketing across the country is simply false.

I do wish the so called experts would stop referring to the "pandemic" as coronavirus.  We are constantly visited by coronavirus in the forms of colds.  This disease is a specific form of the virus which produces COVID-19.  So called experts should be sensitive to that.

The other claim which I find terribly misleading is that extreme "social distancing" will stop the spread of COVID-19.  It won't.  Those susceptible will eventually get the virus.  The practices of extreme social distancing may slow the spread and prolong the experience but it WILL NOT stop it and it's certainly not worth destroying the economy and people's lives to do so.  

[scooperhsd]

Doctors unleash on politics as coronavirus spikes: 'No other country debates masks'

...
“Honestly the politicization of science is one of our incredible societal downfalls. Science should not be politics,” Dr. Hilary Fairbrother, ...

Legal orders and laws are political.  While standing up and shouting that science should not be in politics the doctor desires politics through legal orders and laws should allow the claimed representatives of science to dictate to them.  Ironic, isn't it?

...
However, social distancing and the use of masks in public have become a source of contention among those who feel it violates their personal freedoms.
...   

That's a wide assumption.  There are some who resist wearing masks because they think it is stupid and doesn't achieve what it is represented to do.

...
New coronavirus diagnoses in the United States are skyrocketing ...   

The numbers simply don't support that repeated claim.  Yes, there are spots, mostly dense population areas, where the cases are occurring but to say they are skyrocketing across the country is simply false.

I do wish the so called experts would stop referring to the "pandemic" as coronavirus.  We are constantly visited by coronavirus in the forms of colds.  This disease is a specific form of the virus which produces COVID-19.  So called experts should be sensitive to that.

The other claim which I find terribly misleading is that extreme "social distancing" will stop the spread of COVID-19.  It won't.  Those susceptible will eventually get the virus.  The practices of extreme social distancing may slow the spread and prolong the experience but it WILL NOT stop it and it's certainly not worth destroying the economy and people's lives to do so. 

Amen ...

[Valkorado]

Doctors unleash on politics as coronavirus spikes: 'No other country debates masks'

...
“Honestly the politicization of science is one of our incredible societal downfalls. Science should not be politics,” Dr. Hilary Fairbrother, ...

Legal orders and laws are political.  While standing up and shouting that science should not be in politics the doctor desires politics through legal orders and laws should allow the claimed representatives of science to dictate to them.  Ironic, isn't it?

...
However, social distancing and the use of masks in public have become a source of contention among those who feel it violates their personal freedoms.
...  

That's a wide assumption.  There are some who resist wearing masks because they think it is stupid and doesn't achieve what it is represented to do.

...
New coronavirus diagnoses in the United States are skyrocketing ...  

The numbers simply don't support that repeated claim.  Yes, there are spots, mostly dense population areas, where the cases are occurring but to say they are skyrocketing across the country is simply false.

I do wish the so called experts would stop referring to the "pandemic" as coronavirus.  We are constantly visited by coronavirus in the forms of colds.  This disease is a specific form of the virus which produces COVID-19.  So called experts should be sensitive to that.

The other claim which I find terribly misleading is that extreme "social distancing" will stop the spread of COVID-19.  It won't.  Those susceptible will eventually get the virus.  The practices of extreme social distancing may slow the spread and prolong the experience but it WILL NOT stop it and it's certainly not worth destroying the economy and people's lives to do so.  

Well I guess herd immunity is our only option then.  Thanks for your expertise.

[scooperhsd]

Doctors unleash on politics as coronavirus spikes: 'No other country debates masks'

...
“Honestly the politicization of science is one of our incredible societal downfalls. Science should not be politics,” Dr. Hilary Fairbrother, ...

Legal orders and laws are political.  While standing up and shouting that science should not be in politics the doctor desires politics through legal orders and laws should allow the claimed representatives of science to dictate to them.  Ironic, isn't it?

...
However, social distancing and the use of masks in public have become a source of contention among those who feel it violates their personal freedoms.
...   

That's a wide assumption.  There are some who resist wearing masks because they think it is stupid and doesn't achieve what it is represented to do.

...
New coronavirus diagnoses in the United States are skyrocketing ...   

The numbers simply don't support that repeated claim.  Yes, there are spots, mostly dense population areas, where the cases are occurring but to say they are skyrocketing across the country is simply false.

I do wish the so called experts would stop referring to the "pandemic" as coronavirus.  We are constantly visited by coronavirus in the forms of colds.  This disease is a specific form of the virus which produces COVID-19.  So called experts should be sensitive to that.

The other claim which I find terribly misleading is that extreme "social distancing" will stop the spread of COVID-19.  It won't.  Those susceptible will eventually get the virus.  The practices of extreme social distancing may slow the spread and prolong the experience but it WILL NOT stop it and it's certainly not worth destroying the economy and people's lives to do so. 

Well I guess herd immunity is our only option then.  Thanks for your expertise.

Until there are proven vaccines - yep. DOn't expect them until at least the first part of next year....

[Valkorado]

Doctors unleash on politics as coronavirus spikes: 'No other country debates masks'

...
“Honestly the politicization of science is one of our incredible societal downfalls. Science should not be politics,” Dr. Hilary Fairbrother, ...

Legal orders and laws are political.  While standing up and shouting that science should not be in politics the doctor desires politics through legal orders and laws should allow the claimed representatives of science to dictate to them.  Ironic, isn't it?

...
However, social distancing and the use of masks in public have become a source of contention among those who feel it violates their personal freedoms.
...   

That's a wide assumption.  There are some who resist wearing masks because they think it is stupid and doesn't achieve what it is represented to do.

...
New coronavirus diagnoses in the United States are skyrocketing ...   

The numbers simply don't support that repeated claim.  Yes, there are spots, mostly dense population areas, where the cases are occurring but to say they are skyrocketing across the country is simply false.

I do wish the so called experts would stop referring to the "pandemic" as coronavirus.  We are constantly visited by coronavirus in the forms of colds.  This disease is a specific form of the virus which produces COVID-19.  So called experts should be sensitive to that.

The other claim which I find terribly misleading is that extreme "social distancing" will stop the spread of COVID-19.  It won't.  Those susceptible will eventually get the virus.  The practices of extreme social distancing may slow the spread and prolong the experience but it WILL NOT stop it and it's certainly not worth destroying the economy and people's lives to do so. 

Well I guess herd immunity is our only option then.  Thanks for your expertise.

Until there are proven vaccines - yep. DOn't expect them until at least the first part of next year....

Not expecting them at all.

[MarkT]

I know THIS from personal experience.  I frequently succumb to respiratory contagions.  Such that once I was laid off from Sybase 22 years ago I stopped flying completely.  I used to get sick after almost every flight.  On 757's w/o exception - they had bad ventilation in comparison to other aircraft.  I am asthmatic, with diabetes, AFIB, hypothyroid, heavy (though that's better lately) and old - and other chronic issues, some of these known results of my exposure to agent orange.  At risk for Covid-19 reportedly.  I am not a medical expert.  But when I catch respiratory sickness, I have a hard time breathing.  And Covid is a STRONG respiratory virus, why the respirator/ventilator need is so much in the news.  I MUST NOT catch it.  I don't have the impression there will be much if any preventative measures at Inzane.  I was apparently ignored when I inquired on that.  Yet I will attend.  

UPDATE:  Just read on Inzane update thread, the hotel is taking some precautions.  I suspect some are mandated by state edict.

I'll be cautious about exposure as much as is reasonable to me.  I will try to avoid close associations w/o a mask as much as seems reasonable, will bring PPE and hope I don't have to use it too much.  Might not attend all the evening gatherings, unlike previous Inzanes.  I have product to donate to the drawings and I like to watch the presentations and see who gets them.  The wife is trying to get me to not go.  The pandemic is why she is not coming - I was going to trailer with George and Jade if she came but now, ridng Jade.   But being a hermit is also unacceptable to me.

I expect this post will be lambasted.  But I think there is some merit to medical folk's cautions.  Oh well.  

[John Schmidt]

I received an email that asked the question: "if the virus can be killed/controlled by washing your hands and using sanitizing wipes, why can't we created a vaccine?"  Obviously not that simple, many diseases can be controlled in the same manner.

[Serk]

I expect this post will be lambasted.  But I think there is some merit to medical folk's cautions.  Oh well. 

I hope it wouldn't be lambasted, I think most folks have been saying all along that each individual should decide for themselves what the right level of precaution and risk is...

[Patrick]

I'm thinking that in certain spots this has been allowed to spread because of peoples stupidity, such as the 'protests'.

Apparently now only white folk have to wear them.

[Chrisj CMA]

If a business decides (or is mandated) to require masks to enter, I will decide if I will comply and enter or not, and pass on by.  If someone passes a requirement that everyone wears a mask while outside I will be a criminal.

[markymark640]

Hmmm.  I would suggest that the experts think social distancing and wearing masks in public may be wise practices due to concerns over those pesky asymptomatic carriers spreading the virus to vulnerable folks in our society. 

I would suggest these scientists recommend this for public safety, not to take away your rights or control you.

Its a tough concept for some to grasp.

+1




 

[Patrick]

Here in upstate NY, a mask is required when entering a restaurant. But, once inside it can be removed and the bar and seating areas are as normal except for 50% occupancy.

[Jess from VA]

All indoor public spaces in VA require a mask.

My Dentist requires one to enter, but you can take it off when in the fun seat.

He looks like he belongs in a chemical warfare lab though (which was OK with me). 

[scooperhsd]

I went to a dentist last tuesday ( 6/23) - he was also dressed up more than I thought was necessary, but, I'm pretty sure he was just following guidelines from the health department / state dental board etc.

[Robert]

I addition to Willows post, I have to ask one thing, and add a few facts to the hysteria

it was supposedly a death sentence when you got it, it was NEW and never encountered.

There was no experience with recovery at all.

 This was the one thing that spurred all the hysteria. In fact lack of experience with this has been the main problem in all areas.

We now have recovery stats something we NEVER had, which led to the false projections.

why is this not being addressed also.


As of yesterday it has a 89 percent recovery rate. Many have no symptoms either, but inaccurate tests may show a false positive.

United States of America is 330,901,704 population.

127649 deaths

This works out to a .04 percent death rate less than the flu.



From the CDC

    Number of deaths: 2,813,503 ALL DEATHS from any illness
    Death rate: 863.8 deaths per 100,000 population
    Life expectancy: 78.6 years
    Infant Mortality rate: 5.79 deaths per 1,000 live births

Source: Deaths: Final Data for 2017, tables 1, 3, 13 pdf icon[PDF – 2 MB]
Number of deaths for leading causes of death:

    Heart disease: 647,457
    Cancer: 599,108
    Accidents (unintentional injuries): 169,936
    Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 160,201
    Stroke (cerebrovascular diseases): 146,383
    Alzheimer’s disease: 121,404
    Diabetes: 83,564
    Influenza and Pneumonia: 55,672
    Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome and nephrosis: 50,633
    Intentional self-harm (suicide): 47,173

2.2 million die world wide due to diarrhea

Diarrhea kills 2,195 children every day—more than AIDS, malaria, and measles combined. Diarrheal diseases account for 1 in 9 child deaths worldwide, making diarrhea the second leading cause of death among children under the age of 5.

[Valkorado]

Coronavirus Recovery
https://www.webmd.com/lung/covid-recovery-overview

[Patrick]

This just in !


Your new president biden has just said the first thing he will do as your new president will be to federally mandate the wearing of masks, apparently forever, and enforce it.

[Robert]

Coronavirus Recovery
https://www.webmd.com/lung/covid-recovery-overview

 However, early estimates predict that the overall COVID-19 recovery rate is between 97% and 99.75%

List of human disease case fatality rates

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_human_disease_case_fatality_rates

[Robert]

This just in !


Your new president biden has just said the first thing he will do as your new president will be to federally mandate the wearing of masks, apparently forever, and enforce it.

NOT my president 

[Patrick]

Coronavirus Recovery
https://www.webmd.com/lung/covid-recovery-overview

 However, early estimates predict that the overall COVID-19 recovery rate is between 97% and 99.75%

List of human disease case fatality rates

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_human_disease_case_fatality_rates

Just heard that in Florida the recovery rate for 60 yr old was/is 60% and under 30 is 95%.

[Valkorado]

It's all good!

[Robert]

Just heard that in Florida the recovery rate for 60 yr old was/is 60% and under 30 is 95%.

The numbers vary but its a big change from being a death sentence for all who get it. The fear of the unknown turned into a political issue and taking away of rights.

[cagrote]

...FOLLOW THE MONEY
I would suggest these scientists recommend this for public safety, not to take away your rights or control you.

Its a tough concept for some to grasp. 

As is the opposed concept.   

I was referring to scientists, and not to the media or liberal politicians.  I do believe there is a substantial difference in their motivations.

[Valkorado]

I've never said it's a death sentence for all who get it. 

Some who get it don't know they've got it.  Some reportedly get, "sicker than they've ever been in their life".  For some others, it's only a hospital "sentence", ranging from general care to ICU and ventilation.

Its still here.  I still recommend caution.

https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20200625/states-react-to-surges-in-coronavirus-cases

[Binkie]

Why is your health concern my problem. And vise versa.  Take responsibility for yourself  and quit trying to force your issues on others. 

[Valkorado]

Why is your health concern my problem. And vise versa.  Take responsibility for yourself  and quit trying to force your issues on others.  

This thread is discussing facemasks and C19.  If you don't like the conversation find another thread.

Force?  I've said numerous times I don't support lockdown.  I've also said wear what you want to or wear nothing, protective gear wise.  This is America!   You go be free!

Conversely I do remember posting a poll here some time back in which the majority of respondents indicted their support for the President's three stage reopening plan which required states to meet certian criteria before moving on to the next stage.  I still support that plan.

http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,110917.0.html

https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20200611/widespread-face-mask-use-could-control-second-wave?ecd=wnl_spr_061320&ctr=wnl-spr-061320_nsl-LeadModule_cta&mb=yD3yvaRDE8O24N5PFMopteHnVev1imbCxO17Y1V1R2k%3d