COVID 19

[JimmyG]

Interesting :

youtu.be/UENgBsb4WcM

[Valkorado]

 

[Bret SD]

"I realized the big fight wasn't with the virus, it was the fear"

She nailed it, the virus is a fear tool used as a control mechanism by those who could care less if we live or die, including many doctors in this country. Sad fact, they're victims of medical fascism coming from their 'superiors'. Most don't want to lose a job so they go along to get along, meanwhile people die.. and the incessant drumbeat of fear coming from media and our medical establishment continues to this day.

[hubcapsc]

the virus is a fear tool

Actually, it's a deadly lysogenic parasite.

-Mike "they're quite different  "

[Bret SD]

the virus is a fear tool

Actually, it's a deadly lysogenic parasite.

-Mike "they're quite different  "

Deadly? No more than flu, but you go ahead and keep spreading the fear.

[The emperor has no clothes]

the virus is a fear tool

Actually, it's a deadly lysogenic parasite.

-Mike "they're quite different  "

Deadly? No more than flu, but you go ahead and keep spreading the fear.

No more than flu ?  I’m 63 years old. I don’t remember flu deaths ever coming close. (But go ahead and keep spreading the bs)

[Serk]

Deadly? No more than flu, but you go ahead and keep spreading the fear.

I reject the premise that since I wear a helmet by choice while riding I'm living in fear, just as I reject the premise that since I take reasonable precautions in the midst of a pandemic that's many times more deadly than the flu means I'm living in fear.

[hubcapsc]

the virus is a fear tool

Actually, it's a deadly lysogenic parasite.

-Mike "they're quite different  "

Deadly? No more than flu, but you go ahead and keep spreading the fear.

I'm not afraid. All I can figure, though, is that people who are swimming in the
Egyptian river are.

-Mike "nothing else makes sense..."

[Bret SD]

the virus is a fear tool

Actually, it's a deadly lysogenic parasite.

-Mike "they're quite different  "

Deadly? No more than flu, but you go ahead and keep spreading the fear.

No more than flu ?  I’m 63 years old. I don’t remember flu deaths ever coming close. (But go ahead and keep spreading the bs)

Prove it, this should be interesting

[Romeo]

For those that continue to believe this is about using fear to control people, I have one question that I’ve yet to hear a rational answer for. Why? To what end? For what reason? Ok, three questions.

[hubcapsc]

the virus is a fear tool

Actually, it's a deadly lysogenic parasite.

-Mike "they're quite different  "

Deadly? No more than flu, but you go ahead and keep spreading the fear.

No more than flu ?  I’m 63 years old. I don’t remember flu deaths ever coming close. (But go ahead and keep spreading the bs)

Prove it, this should be interesting

It is proved, yet you seem entirely uninterested?

-Mike

[Bret SD]

For those that continue to believe this is about using fear to control people, I have one question that I’ve yet to hear a rational answer for. Why? To what end? For what reason? Ok, three questions.

Speaking for myself, I have my suspicions I won't share here lest I be called a conspiracy theorist. The fact remains that the medical establishment treats the chinese cooties differently then any recent disease in history.

The question you should be asking is, why are they doing it? To what end?

When our formerly trusted medical system breaks protocol you have to wonder why..

When hydroxychloroquine, a very effective treatment, is demonized by the medical community and politicians, you have to wonder why..

When the aggregate survival rate of this bug is well over 99%, and near a hundred percent if you discount people over 70, you have to wonder why they're pushing an experimental 'vaccine'.

The survival rate data we have is flawed in my opinion, it's actually a much higher than that had we stuck to traditional medical protocol..

If you aren't asking yourself these questions, I have to wonder why.

[Rams]

Interesting,
I have to wonder why anyone would not want to take the vaccine when (as of this morning's news,  over 33 million folks) have gotten the vaccine and the numbers of hospitalizations and deaths is dropping.

Doesn't make much sense to me but, I am not an advocate of forced vaccinations.  Agreed that this virus is most dangerous to a specific demographic (as the graph Serk's graph shows).   I happen to have several friends and family members in that most endangered demographic.   I am all for following CDC guidelines.  Knowing that even though I have received the vaccination, I could still carry and spread the virus.   To me, it common sense but, that's just me.   Those who don't want the vaccine, more power to ya.

Rams

[Valkorado]

The fact remains that the medical establishment treats the chinese cooties differently then any recent disease in history.

The Chinese cooties are different than any recent disease.  On our lifetimes, anyway.

[Bret SD]

The fact remains that the medical establishment treats the chinese cooties differently then any recent disease in history.

The Chinese cooties are different than any recent disease.  On our lifetimes, anyway.

Nope, not so: SARS, MERS, much more deadly diseases.

Protocol wasn't broken for them, again.. Why now?

Propagandists have been very successful in scaring the hell out of the population, have you really looked at anything from the Frontline doctors?

[Valkorado]

The fact remains that the medical establishment treats the chinese cooties differently then any recent disease in history.

The Chinese cooties are different than any recent disease.  On our lifetimes, anyway.

Nope, not so: SARS, MERS, much more deadly diseases.

...more deadly diseases...

on a much smaller scale.

[Bret SD]

The fact remains that the medical establishment treats the chinese cooties differently then any recent disease in history.

The Chinese cooties are different than any recent disease.  On our lifetimes, anyway.

Nope, not so: SARS, MERS, much more deadly diseases.

...more deadly diseases...

on a much smaller scale.

You're missing the point on changing protocol, it should NOT have been changed, and hydroxychloroquine should NOT have been demonized.

Those two things should raised everybody's suspicions, now they're pushing an experimental non vaccine onto the masses.

Mark my words, they WILL attempt forced vaccinations, it may not be at gunpoint, rather it will be through denying your basic human rights, like the right to travel freely and/or crossing state lines as an example.

We are being manipulated through medical fascism.

[f6gal]

For those that continue to believe this is about using fear to control people, I have one question that I’ve yet to hear a rational answer for. Why? To what end? For what reason? Ok, three questions.

When hydroxychloroquine, a very effective treatment, is demonized by the medical community

This is a misstatement.  The medical community, at large, did not demonize HCQ; rather, they were banned from using it by politicians.  It was demonized by the press and politicians.  Some in the medical community may have bought into the misinformation, but I dispute "at large."

Deadly? No more than flu, but you go ahead and keep spreading the fear.

Mortality is not the only measure of severity.  COVID is a much more serious disease than the flu.  The full course of the flu typically runs 5-7 days and it's over.  COVID, on the other hand, can run weeks on end and frequently leaves long term health problems in its wake.  
I do believe the numbers have been overblown for political reasons.  However, it is still more deadly than the flu.

if you discount people over 70

I'm sure all our members here that are over 70, don't appreciate being "discounted."

[f6gal]

The fact remains that the medical establishment treats the chinese cooties differently then any recent disease in history.

The Chinese cooties are different than any recent disease.  On our lifetimes, anyway.

Nope, not so: SARS, MERS, much more deadly diseases.

Protocol wasn't broken for them, again.. Why now?

Propagandists have been very successful in scaring the hell out of the population, have you really looked at anything from the Frontline doctors?

Yes, we have faced more deadly viruses.  The Marburg virus and the Ebola virus are the most deadly.  However, the most deadly label derives from the percentage of deaths of those that have the virus, not from the number of people it killed.  

There are essentially 2 phases in the viral cycle, lytic and lysogenic.  The lytic phase is the disease producing or deadly phase, while the lysogenic phase is primarily reproduction.  A virus with longer lysongenic phase (like coronavirus) can be spread to more people.  Whereas, viruses that are primarily lytic (like Marburg, Ebola), kill their hosts before the virus can be widely spread to other people.

So, while less deadly per se, the coronavirus has the potential to kill more people, but at a lower percentage of deaths per cases.

P.S.  I like science.

[Rams]

Mark my words, they WILL attempt forced vaccinations, it may not be at gunpoint, rather it will be through denying your basic human rights, like the right to travel freely and/or crossing state lines as an example.

We are being manipulated through medical fascism.

Interesting concept, not allowing potentially infected people from traveling to an un-infected or less infected area.   

Should those from "current" hot spots be traveling to less infected areas?   Should those folks be quarantined and be required to follow CDC guidelines more than others?   And, would that be denying basic human rights to either the travelers or, the population of those in the less effected or infected areas?   Hmmm.........   

Rams

[The emperor has no clothes]

The fact remains that the medical establishment treats the chinese cooties differently then any recent disease in history.

The Chinese cooties are different than any recent disease.  On our lifetimes, anyway.

Nope, not so: SARS, MERS, much more deadly diseases.

Protocol wasn't broken for them, again.. Why now?

Propagandists have been very successful in scaring the hell out of the population, have you really looked at anything from the Frontline doctors?

Yes, we have faced more deadly viruses.  The Marburg virus and the Ebola virus are the most deadly.  However, the most deadly label derives from the percentage of deaths of those that have the virus, not from the number of people it killed.  

There are essentially 2 phases in the viral cycle, lytic and lysogenic.  The lytic phase is the disease producing or deadly phase, while the lysogenic phase is primarily reproduction.  A virus with longer lysongenic phase (like coronavirus) can be spread to more people.  Whereas, viruses that are primarily lytic (like Marburg, Ebola), kill their hosts before the virus can be widely spread to other people.

So, while less deadly per se, the coronavirus has the potential to kill more people, but at a lower percentage of deaths per cases.

P.S.  I like science.

I like science too.  I wish I was smart enough to be a scientist. But alas, merely a chopper.

I think the real issue isn't the specifics of certain diseases. But the politics of scientific policy. Some just can't accept some things, regardless of fact based evidence. I also wish I was smart enough to explain the evidence in an acceptable manner for these people. It would make family gatherings more pleasant.

[Bret SD]

The fact remains that the medical establishment treats the chinese cooties differently then any recent disease in history.

The Chinese cooties are different than any recent disease.  On our lifetimes, anyway.

Nope, not so: SARS, MERS, much more deadly diseases.

Protocol wasn't broken for them, again.. Why now?

Propagandists have been very successful in scaring the hell out of the population, have you really looked at anything from the Frontline doctors?

Yes, we have faced more deadly viruses.  The Marburg virus and the Ebola virus are the most deadly.  However, the most deadly label derives from the percentage of deaths of those that have the virus, not from the number of people it killed. 

There are essentially 2 phases in the viral cycle, lytic and lysogenic.  The lytic phase is the disease producing or deadly phase, while the lysogenic phase is primarily reproduction.  A virus with longer lysongenic phase (like coronavirus) can be spread to more people.  Whereas, viruses that are primarily lytic (like Marburg, Ebola), kill their hosts before the virus can be widely spread to other people.

So, while less deadly per se, the coronavirus has the potential to kill more people, but at a lower percentage of deaths per cases.

P.S.  I like science.

Right, one key ingredient we're missing is a baseline for infections, due to this we have to rely on what we think are infections or infection rates, those remain unknown. Regarding flu we have a pretty good idea of mortality rates has those who come down with flu will know it. Infection with the Chinese cooties isn't necessarily going to show any symptoms at all.

So yes a higher infection rate can potentially kill more people, and comparing the Wuhan virus and flu death rates are pretty much impossible without an infection baseline for the Wuhan virus. Knowing that, the survival rates for the Wuhan virus infections can only go up from here, not down.

A moving target of infection rates is a key ingredient in the manipulation, it provides a lot of leeway to those who wish to exploit and control us.

[Bret SD]

The fact remains that the medical establishment treats the chinese cooties differently then any recent disease in history.

The Chinese cooties are different than any recent disease.  On our lifetimes, anyway.

Nope, not so: SARS, MERS, much more deadly diseases.

Protocol wasn't broken for them, again.. Why now?

Propagandists have been very successful in scaring the hell out of the population, have you really looked at anything from the Frontline doctors?

Yes, we have faced more deadly viruses.  The Marburg virus and the Ebola virus are the most deadly.  However, the most deadly label derives from the percentage of deaths of those that have the virus, not from the number of people it killed. 

There are essentially 2 phases in the viral cycle, lytic and lysogenic.  The lytic phase is the disease producing or deadly phase, while the lysogenic phase is primarily reproduction.  A virus with longer lysongenic phase (like coronavirus) can be spread to more people.  Whereas, viruses that are primarily lytic (like Marburg, Ebola), kill their hosts before the virus can be widely spread to other people.

So, while less deadly per se, the coronavirus has the potential to kill more people, but at a lower percentage of deaths per cases.

P.S.  I like science.

I like science too.  I wish I was smart enough to be a scientist. But alas, merely a chopper.

I think the real issue isn't the specifics of certain diseases. But the politics of scientific policy. Some just can't accept some things, regardless of fact based evidence. I also wish I was smart enough to explain the evidence in an acceptable manner for these people. It would make family gatherings more pleasant.

Meathead, the problem here is a lack of reliable 'facts'.. From any source

[The emperor has no clothes]

Not really. The problem here is some people believe what they want to believe. Regardless, or in spite of, facts. You are convinced the government is trying to lie to you and "control" you thru scientific policy. No amount of reliable facts are going to change that.

[Avanti]

Deadly enough to need a negative test as a US citizen to re-enter the USA but harmless enough for thousands to enter untested by way of the Southern Border!

[Rams]

Oops, think'n my Political Peg O Meter just pegged out. 

Rams

[Rams]

Mark my words, they WILL attempt forced vaccinations, it may not be at gunpoint, rather it will be through denying your basic human rights, like the right to travel freely and/or crossing state lines as an example.

We are being manipulated through medical fascism.

Sir,
I'm still interested to learn who's rights are being infringed, vacated or removed.   The person wanting to travel (who may potentially be an exposure risk) or the population of the area he's traveling to?  

I would argue that maybe both or neither.  But, that doesn't seem very realistic.   Would the old axiom of "The Needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few" apply?   Just seeking your opinion.
Who's rights are being violated?

Rams

[BigInSeattle]

I really don't understand the mentality of a lot of people. The same people who think the Government is hugely inept also think the Government is smart enough to mastermind a hoax on a global scale without a single person in the hoax spilling the beans on the whole thing.

I do not think anyone is out to get us. I also think the government has no idea what it is doing and is learning as they go. Conspiracy? No. Hoax? No. Ineptitude? For sure. Has there been conflicting rules and advice? For sure, I hate it too.

I don't understand why whenever certain people are "asked" or "told" to do something that could potentially help others they immediately shut down and start ranting. "I WON'T WEAR A MASK! MASKS DON'T WORK 100%" My 5 year old will often throw a fit when asked to do something he doesn't want to do.

It is a very self-centered and egocentric point of view. They don't want to wear a mask because they think it is stupid or a hoax or a conspiracy so they start searching for a justification they can use to not wear one. Of course they find websites out there to support their position and use it as an excuse.

I don't want to walk around with a mask 1 second longer than I have to but I am willing to make that monumental sacrifice for myself and others around me.

[scooperhsd]

Myself - mask goes on as I enter a business, comes off as I clear the exit door threshold. I would wear one  (reluctantly) in a large crowd that I cannot get 6 feet away from everyone except my social circle.

[Bret SD]

Not really. The problem here is some people believe what they want to believe. Regardless, or in spite of, facts. You are convinced the government is trying to lie to you and "control" you thru scientific policy. No amount of reliable facts are going to change that.

You keep using the word facts, so what you're saying is only you have reliable facts, is this correct?

[Bret SD]

Mark my words, they WILL attempt forced vaccinations, it may not be at gunpoint, rather it will be through denying your basic human rights, like the right to travel freely and/or crossing state lines as an example.

We are being manipulated through medical fascism.

Sir,
I'm still interested to learn who's rights are being infringed, vacated or removed.   The person wanting to travel (who may potentially be an exposure risk) or the population of the area he's traveling to?   

I would argue that maybe both or neither.  But, that doesn't seem very realistic.   Would the old axiom of "The Needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few" apply?   Just seeking your opinion.
Who's rights are being violated?

Rams

Our constitutional rights are God given, our constitution is in place to protect us from government overreach. Restricting the movement of sick people is prudent, restricting the movement of healthy people is fascism.

[The emperor has no clothes]

Not really. The problem here is some people believe what they want to believe. Regardless, or in spite of, facts. You are convinced the government is trying to lie to you and "control" you thru scientific policy. No amount of reliable facts are going to change that.

You keep using the word facts, so what you're saying is only you have reliable facts, is this correct?

no

Mark my words, they WILL attempt forced vaccinations, it may not be at gunpoint, rather it will be through denying your basic human rights, like the right to travel freely and/or crossing state lines as an example.

We are being manipulated through medical fascism.

Sir,
I'm still interested to learn who's rights are being infringed, vacated or removed.   The person wanting to travel (who may potentially be an exposure risk) or the population of the area he's traveling to?   

I would argue that maybe both or neither.  But, that doesn't seem very realistic.   Would the old axiom of "The Needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few" apply?   Just seeking your opinion.
Who's rights are being violated?

Rams

Our constitutional rights are God given, our constitution is in place to protect us from government overreach. Restricting the movement of sick people is prudent, restricting the movement of healthy people is fascism.

Our Constitution is a document of men. Good men, no doubt, but men.

[Romeo]

For those that continue to believe this is about using fear to control people, I have one question that I’ve yet to hear a rational answer for. Why? To what end? For what reason? Ok, three questions.

Speaking for myself, I have my suspicions I won't share here lest I be called a conspiracy theorist. The fact remains that the medical establishment treats the chinese cooties differently then any recent disease in history.

The question you should be asking is, why are they doing it? To what end?

When our formerly trusted medical system breaks protocol you have to wonder why..

When hydroxychloroquine, a very effective treatment, is demonized by the medical community and politicians, you have to wonder why..

When the aggregate survival rate of this bug is well over 99%, and near a hundred percent if you discount people over 70, you have to wonder why they're pushing an experimental 'vaccine'.

The survival rate data we have is flawed in my opinion, it's actually a much higher than that had we stuck to traditional medical protocol..

If you aren't asking yourself these questions, I have to wonder why.

still no rational answer to my questions. As far as your questions, I say it’s possible their response is different because the understand this virus is different than anything we’ve seen, up to this point? As far as the survival rate percentages, the FACT that numerically this virus has killed so many more, speaks to the FACT that it spreads to so many more than anything we’ve seen before. Again, can you answer for me why, do we mistrust a medical community that we used to trust?

[Bret SD]

I really don't understand the mentality of a lot of people. The same people who think the Government is hugely inept also think the Government is smart enough to mastermind a hoax on a global scale without a single person in the hoax spilling the beans on the whole thing.

I do not think anyone is out to get us. I also think the government has no idea what it is doing and is learning as they go. Conspiracy? No. Hoax? No. Ineptitude? For sure. Has there been conflicting rules and advice? For sure, I hate it too.

I don't understand why whenever certain people are "asked" or "told" to do something that could potentially help others they immediately shut down and start ranting. "I WON'T WEAR A MASK! MASKS DON'T WORK 100%" My 5 year old will often throw a fit when asked to do something he doesn't want to do.

It is a very self-centered and egocentric point of view. They don't want to wear a mask because they think it is stupid or a hoax or a conspiracy so they start searching for a justification they can use to not wear one. Of course they find websites out there to support their position and use it as an excuse.

I don't want to walk around with a mask 1 second longer than I have to but I am willing to make that monumental sacrifice for myself and others around me.

Sorry, guilt tripping isn't going to cut it, there is no proof that masks and lockdowns do anything. Why are case loads in Florida dropping? Why are case is suddenly dropping everywhere? Was it the magic of Biden being 'elected'?

If you think the government doesn't play games with our lives and freedom I don't know what to tell you.

Where I live people walk around with masks on by themselves outside, they wear masks by themselves driving in a car. People here are willing slaves, trusting in our all-powerful government and our honest media.

Tell me why Sturgis didn't have a MASSIVE super spreader problem.. We're being gaslighted and lied to on a daily basis, and people who call BS on it are being told they're selfish.. Or being childish.. 

No man.. Guilt tripping doesn't work.

[Bret SD]

Not really. The problem here is some people believe what they want to believe. Regardless, or in spite of, facts. You are convinced the government is trying to lie to you and "control" you thru scientific policy. No amount of reliable facts are going to change that.

You keep using the word facts, so what you're saying is only you have reliable facts, is this correct?

no

Mark my words, they WILL attempt forced vaccinations, it may not be at gunpoint, rather it will be through denying your basic human rights, like the right to travel freely and/or crossing state lines as an example.

We are being manipulated through medical fascism.

Sir,
I'm still interested to learn who's rights are being infringed, vacated or removed.   The person wanting to travel (who may potentially be an exposure risk) or the population of the area he's traveling to?  

I would argue that maybe both or neither.  But, that doesn't seem very realistic.   Would the old axiom of "The Needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few" apply?   Just seeking your opinion.
Who's rights are being violated?

Rams

Our constitutional rights are God given, our constitution is in place to protect us from government overreach. Restricting the movement of sick people is prudent, restricting the movement of healthy people is fascism.

Our Constitution is a document of men. Good men, no doubt, but men.

Our constitution is a document written by very smart men with the express purpose of protecting our God given rights. Man bestows no rights relative to our constitutional founding, the framers made clear who our rights were given by and who we are to be protected from.

[Valkorado]

Guys, I've decided against vaccination.  I didn't realize I was forfeiting my Constitutional rights and losing favor with God by falling in line with this madness.  Whew!  Close call.

I really do try to be open minded, and I am not above learning new things from the enlightenment of others here.   

[Rams]

Mark my words, they WILL attempt forced vaccinations, it may not be at gunpoint, rather it will be through denying your basic human rights, like the right to travel freely and/or crossing state lines as an example.

We are being manipulated through medical fascism.

Sir,
I'm still interested to learn who's rights are being infringed, vacated or removed.   The person wanting to travel (who may potentially be an exposure risk) or the population of the area he's traveling to?   

I would argue that maybe both or neither.  But, that doesn't seem very realistic.   Would the old axiom of "The Needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few" apply?   Just seeking your opinion.
Who's rights are being violated?

Rams

Our constitutional rights are God given, our constitution is in place to protect us from government overreach. Restricting the movement of sick people is prudent, restricting the movement of healthy people is fascism.

Hmm, OK.   If you don't want to answer my question, so be it. 

Rams

[Bret SD]

Guys, I've decided against vaccination.  I didn't realize I was forfeiting my Constitutional rights and losing favor with God by falling in line with this madness.  Whew!  Close call.

I really do try to be open minded, and I am not above learning new things from the enlightenment of others here.   

Seth, I'm so happy that you've finally seen the light    Hallelujah!!! 

[Bret SD]

Mark my words, they WILL attempt forced vaccinations, it may not be at gunpoint, rather it will be through denying your basic human rights, like the right to travel freely and/or crossing state lines as an example.

We are being manipulated through medical fascism.

Sir,
I'm still interested to learn who's rights are being infringed, vacated or removed.   The person wanting to travel (who may potentially be an exposure risk) or the population of the area he's traveling to?  

I would argue that maybe both or neither.  But, that doesn't seem very realistic.   Would the old axiom of "The Needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few" apply?   Just seeking your opinion.
Who's rights are being violated?

Rams

Our constitutional rights are God given, our constitution is in place to protect us from government overreach. Restricting the movement of sick people is prudent, restricting the movement of healthy people is fascism.

Hmm, OK.   If you don't want to answer my question, so be it.  

Rams

I thought I answered your question, restrictions on movement of a healthy population is tyranny and violates the rights of travelers. This virus is not the Bubonic plague, it's the Chinese plague and it's nowhere near as dangerous. As I said survival rates for this disease are in line with the flu, and the more people we know who are or have been infected the higher the survival percentages go.

Just think how easy it would be if everyone had Hydroxychloroquine in their medicine cabinet and started taking it along with zinc at the first sign of any problem. It would be like people taking Emergen-C when they get the flu. Hydroxychloroquine used early and often is extremely effective at protecting people against this bug, anybody who says otherwise is lying. The government along with our yapping media have very effectively scared much of the population.

The more I think about this the more it becomes clear to me, ideology seems to be the driver and who is willing to have their rights restricted and/or to restrict the rights of others. Those on the left seem to have no problem having their rights trampled, and they definitely don't have a problem trampling on the rights of others.

I'm slightly right of center and slightly libertarian, and enjoy my freedom.

[Chrisj CMA]

the virus is a fear tool

Actually, it's a deadly lysogenic parasite.

-Mike "they're quite different  "

Deadly? No more than flu, but you go ahead and keep spreading the fear.

No more than flu ?  I’m 63 years old. I don’t remember flu deaths ever coming close. (But go ahead and keep spreading the bs)

Most of the “covid deaths” ARE the normal flu deaths and a large percentage of those deaths are/were people that were ready to die anyway. There’s not a lot of people taken out early hence the national death rate is pretty much unchanged.