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Tarkus
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« on: November 09, 2021, 01:56:51 PM » |
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I apologize for not including pictures. I know how helpful they would be in this case. I have them. But I'm not having any success posting them. They don't appear in the post preview and I'm seeing an error message from the host site (postimages.org) that the server is busy. I'm wondering if anyone else has noticed the same problem, or if it's just me. If anyone knows a workaround solution that would be great. For the time being I'll try to describe the issue the best I can.
A few days ago I removed both wheels to mount a new set of tires. Getting the rear wheel out turned out to be a challenge though. The problem was the flange wouldn't come out of the final drive along with the wheel like it's supposed to. Sound familiar? Long story short...I ended up having to remove the final drive. Just as well...because when I removed the flange from the drive I discovered the splines were bone dry and coated with a powdery rust. I've always used Honda's moly 60 lube at each tire change. Never had any problems until now. After making the discovery, I read through some of the posts here on this topic. Seems like others have shared similar experiences. I'm surprised and disappointed that the lube didn't last as long as the tire. Nevertheless, I guess some level of blame lies with the operator. Lesson learned.
At any rate, I'm contemplating my next course of action. After cleanup, the amount of wear on the drive splines is very noticeable. If I had to guesstimate, I would say it's about 20 - 25%. The flange splines show wear too. But it's hard to quantify that. Fortunately the splines on both ends of the drive shaft still look good. The drive spline and flange spline still seem to mesh together well with the drive unit on the workbench. Of course that's with no load. There is some side to side swivel type of play on the flange when you push down from side to side. I don't know how much of that is normal.
Never encountered this issue before, so I'm not too confident in my judgment on how reliable and safe it would be to continue using the drive unit, as is. I figure my safest option is a rebuild. Unfortunately I haven't been able to find any how-to sources on this. Any leads in that regard would be greatly appreciated. I suppose I could take it somewhere and have it done. But even then I want to understand the procedure. Besides, I hate it when I can't do my own work. I know a hydraulic press is needed. Beyond that I'm not sure what (if any) other special tools are required. At this point I'm open to suggestions.
And all I wanted was a new set of tires.
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Conformity is doing what everyone else is doing, regardless of what is right.
Morality is doing what is right regardless of what everyone else is doing.
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John Schmidt
Member
Posts: 15194
a/k/a Stuffy. '99 I/S Valk Roadsmith Trike
De Pere, WI (Green Bay)
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« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2021, 03:06:20 PM » |
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Get a good used final drive off Ebay, has to come from the 1500 Wing. Use the center section by pressing it out/in ...it's the section that pairs up with the flange. Then also look for a good flange. Been a few years since I did it so I can't give much in the way of instructions but it's very effective and less expensive than a full rebuild.
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hubcapsc
Member
Posts: 16769
upstate
South Carolina
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« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2021, 03:12:54 PM » |
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Can you see the pictures in your browser at postimage? Paste that URL into your
post and we can click on it.
-Mike
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Jess from VA
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« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2021, 03:18:37 PM » |
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 You can sister up some of that moly where it's called for, but mostly lots of this is what you want. I put enough, it gets thrown out and makes a mess for a few rides. I wipe it up. No dreaded orange/red powder for me. |
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« Last Edit: November 09, 2021, 03:22:07 PM by Jess from VA »
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Tarkus
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« Reply #4 on: November 09, 2021, 03:47:27 PM » |
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« Last Edit: November 09, 2021, 03:52:00 PM by Tarkus »
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Conformity is doing what everyone else is doing, regardless of what is right.
Morality is doing what is right regardless of what everyone else is doing.
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Earl43P
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« Reply #5 on: November 09, 2021, 06:04:41 PM » |
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I agree with Rob, you caught it in time for many more miles.
I too paste on the moly then add waterproof grease.
Replace that seal on the driveshaft, it keeps water out of the pinion cup joint.
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08 Goldwing
21 KTM390A
99 Valkyrie IS Sold 5/5/23
VRCC #35672
VRCCDS # 0264
When all else fails, RTFM.
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Chrisj CMA
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« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2021, 06:05:21 AM » |
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Lots of waterproof grease in the drive and a little moly on the flange and pay attention to assembly sequence and you’ll be good for quite some time
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Tarkus
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« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2021, 02:22:39 PM » |
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Well that seems a pretty fair consensus on being able to keep going with what I have. It's reassuring because breaking down on the road really sucks. Don't want to go there at all. So for the time being I guess just grease it up and keep going with what I have. Meanwhile do some shopping on e-bay. And make sure my insurance covers towing.  To answer the question on mileage since last greased. It's been exactly 10,458 miles, which was at the last tire change. But that was also 10 years ago. It really isn't that many miles for that length of time. So maybe father time plays a part in this problem too. As far as the o-rings. The o-ring for the filler cap is still good. There are no signs of leakage anywhere on the drive unit, so I can only assume the other two o-rings are still good. But...from what I can tell, the only way to actually see the other two is to open up the drive unit and do some disassembly. Which I have not done...yet. Opening up the drive unit looks like it should be pretty straight forward. But what lies beyond is what I want to get a better grasp on. I'm not quite ready to start opening things up just yet without a better idea of what to expect. As Earl43P mentioned, the seal on the driveshaft is one of the things on my list to be replaced. The shop manual says to do it too. But I have a question about that. I figure a driver is used to install it. But it's on so tight I'm not sure what it's going to take to get it off. The spline gear gets in the way of applying any straight downward force to push it down and off. I guess I could come at it from the side with a big screwdriver and hammer. But that would risk damage to the drive shaft. So if anyone has a suggestion on how to remove this seal without having to resort to using four letter words that would be awesome. |
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« Last Edit: November 10, 2021, 02:25:17 PM by Tarkus »
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Conformity is doing what everyone else is doing, regardless of what is right.
Morality is doing what is right regardless of what everyone else is doing.
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hubcapsc
Member
Posts: 16769
upstate
South Carolina
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« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2021, 02:46:03 PM » |
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You don't have to take the final drive apart to get to all three O-rings... http://www.valkyrieriders.com/shoptalk/Elusive%203rd%20O-Ring.htmThe drive-shaft seal comes off (and the new one goes on) pretty easy... When we did Stanley Steamer's recently, we put painters tape on the parts of the shaft that might damage the seal...  You have to get that little spring and its C-clip on and off, kind of interesting if you're not Hulk Hogan.  -Mike |
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Valker
Member
Posts: 2995
Wahoo!!!!
Texas Panhandle
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« Reply #9 on: November 10, 2021, 03:06:28 PM » |
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You are thinking of different o rings.
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I ride a motorcycle because nothing transports me as quickly from where I am to who I am.
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Jess from VA
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« Reply #10 on: November 10, 2021, 03:17:28 PM » |
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Another way for water to get inside the final drive (and create the dreaded red powder) is a torn Ujoint boot (and rain riding). Look it over.
I once fixed a small tear with liquid electrical tape. Fixed may be a stretch, I repaired it (until replaced).
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Chrisj CMA
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« Reply #11 on: November 10, 2021, 04:25:52 PM » |
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You should be able to remove and replace that oil seal on the drive shaft just using finger power. One Oring is on the flange, one on the hub under the flange and one just inside the opening of the drive behind the lip on the chrome ring thing.
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Tarkus
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« Reply #12 on: November 11, 2021, 08:37:25 AM » |
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Thanks all. This is good information. I'll see what a little more persistence and a pair of circlip pliers can do for getting that seal off the driveshaft. And now that I stand corrected on the o-rings, I feel much better.
I'm aware too that water is not your friend when it comes to creating this problem. But I've always made it a point not to ride during wet conditions if at all possible. That doesn't mean I haven't been caught in a brief shower a time or two. But that would be a very rare exception for me. I don't spray the bike down with water to clean it either. Nevertheless I'll take a look at that u-joint boot just to be sure.
I do have another question about the driveshaft. The Clymer's manual tells you the stopper ring on the final drive end of the drive shaft "must be replaced each time the drive shaft is removed". Three steps later in the procedure it tells you not to install it because it's "only used in manufacturing and does not need to be replaced". Can anyone set the record straight on this?
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Conformity is doing what everyone else is doing, regardless of what is right.
Morality is doing what is right regardless of what everyone else is doing.
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Earl43P
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« Reply #13 on: November 11, 2021, 08:49:08 AM » |
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I keep mine as removed, stop ring intact. Otherwise, you have a flopping spring on the driveshaft to fiddle with when reinstalling. Why add drama?
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08 Goldwing
21 KTM390A
99 Valkyrie IS Sold 5/5/23
VRCC #35672
VRCCDS # 0264
When all else fails, RTFM.
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hubcapsc
Member
Posts: 16769
upstate
South Carolina
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« Reply #14 on: November 11, 2021, 08:55:46 AM » |
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I'd rather be dry than wet, but a Valkyrie shouldn't care one way or the other... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRnLKqCkTCIEarl, are you saying you leave the spring on or off? I'm pretty sure a awful thing happened when DDT's spring was left off once, but I could be mis-remembering... With Valkyrienorway gone, we need to get the factory service manual hosted somewhere. I'd host it if I guessed that I wouldn't end up getting hammered by Honda or whoever it is that makes money by selling "official" copies... -Mike |
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Mooskee
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« Reply #15 on: November 11, 2021, 10:34:06 AM » |
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With Valkyrienorway gone, we need to get the factory service manual
hosted somewhere. I'd host it if I guessed that I wouldn't end up getting
hammered by Honda or whoever it is that makes money by selling
"official" copies...
-Mike
Mike Here is a link to the official Honda PDF download. They only charge $16.99, which isn't bad for the information you get. I like having a digital copy to search. I also have the paper copy which looks like someone printed out the PDF and put a fancy cover on it! These with the Clymer manual are fairly comprehensive. Dave |
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hubcapsc
Member
Posts: 16769
upstate
South Carolina
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« Reply #16 on: November 11, 2021, 11:12:14 AM » |
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$17 is well worth it. I have a hard copy. It used to be nice to be able to look at the one over at valkyrienorway for free online though  ... I have the valkyrienorway one downloaded, but think it would probably be a bad (copyright infringement) idea to put it on my own website for downloads... -Mike
With Valkyrienorway gone, we need to get the factory service manual
hosted somewhere. I'd host it if I guessed that I wouldn't end up getting
hammered by Honda or whoever it is that makes money by selling
"official" copies...
-Mike
Mike Here is a link to the official Honda PDF download. They only charge $16.99, which isn't bad for the information you get. I like having a digital copy to search. I also have the paper copy which looks like someone printed out the PDF and put a fancy cover on it! These with the Clymer manual are fairly comprehensive. Dave |
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Tarkus
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« Reply #17 on: November 11, 2021, 11:39:28 AM » |
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I keep mine as removed, stop ring intact. Otherwise, you have a flopping spring on the driveshaft to fiddle with when reinstalling. Why add drama?
Just want to be clear on what's being said. First to keep it removed. Then intact. So I'm a little confused still. Based on what follows it sounds like the stopper ring gets in the way when reinstalling the shaft. Is that correct? Even if it does impede installation, what's more important in my mind is how critical it is to functional reliability. I'd rather deal with a little aggravation with reinstallation than a bigger problem down the road. |
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Conformity is doing what everyone else is doing, regardless of what is right.
Morality is doing what is right regardless of what everyone else is doing.
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hubcapsc
Member
Posts: 16769
upstate
South Carolina
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« Reply #18 on: November 11, 2021, 11:51:40 AM » |
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It is always OK to put the driveshaft back in the way it came out, with the spring and the c-clip and a new seal. It all goes back together easily. This fellow rides hard and has almost 200,000 miles on his original equipment. His guide has lots of pictures... http://www.valkyrieriders.com/shoptalk/rear_end_service.pptx-Mike |
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pancho
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« Reply #19 on: November 12, 2021, 05:10:54 AM » |
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I'd rather be dry than wet, but a Valkyrie shouldn't care one way or the other...
Hey Mike, wondering what kind of camera you have there, how did you keep it dry, where was it mounted??
Enjoyed the videos, good stuff!
Tarkus, as others have said, you can use what you have for awhile, but with the clearances you now have, it will be wearing at an accelerated rate. I would be researching the ways to rebuild the final drive and start gathering parts. Use plenty of MOLY PASTE on the remains of the splines if you do use them as is. It is you BEST protection when dealing with metal to metal contact. It is what Honda recommends for that joint, and every other materials engineer for splines.
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« Last Edit: November 12, 2021, 05:19:33 AM by pancho »
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The most expensive things you will purchase, are those things you would not have needed if you had listened and obeyed.
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hubcapsc
Member
Posts: 16769
upstate
South Carolina
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« Reply #20 on: November 12, 2021, 05:21:29 AM » |
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I'd rather be dry than wet, but a Valkyrie shouldn't care one way or the other...
Hey Mike, wondering what kind of camera you have there, how did you keep it dry, where was it mounted??
Enjoyed the videos, good stuff!
That was my very first gopro... mounted on my air wing I think...  I use a Sony camera now, all those "sports" cameras come with waterproof mounting cases... I have a waterproof case for the BFGPS too...  I don't do much video, I generally set the camera to take a picture every 5 seconds and then pick a few lucky shots out later to post. I'm leaving in a few minutes for the Crazyhorse ride and my Sony is set to video for a change... the battery runs out quick on video, and unedited motorcycle ride videos usually get boring after about 20 seconds unless there's something dramatic (pouring rain) going on... -Mike |
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pancho
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« Reply #21 on: November 12, 2021, 06:00:29 AM » |
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Every six months or so, I start researching cameras, trying to find one to do everything, go from dash cam, to body cam to sports cam, get bogged down in the details and still don't have one!
Have a good ride.
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The most expensive things you will purchase, are those things you would not have needed if you had listened and obeyed.
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Knapdog
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« Reply #22 on: November 19, 2021, 12:58:49 AM » |
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This is my next job but it's going to be suck it and see.
My initial thoughts were that I'd just be cleaning the splines on the wheel and freshening up with new moly grease but I'm worried that there's a bit more to it concerning the shaft drive and O-rings.
Is there a list of parts anywhere that I'm going to need? I believe there's a neoprene washer and three O- rings. Do they come in a kit by any chance?
I have seen a YouTube video where a guy ( granddaughter helps with the filming) does a spline service. If you've seen it is there anything else I need to know?
Thank you.
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« Last Edit: November 19, 2021, 02:43:32 AM by Knapdog »
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Stay between the hedges!
'98 Honda Valkyrie Tourer⁸
'96 Honda C90
'83 Honda C90C
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hubcapsc
Member
Posts: 16769
upstate
South Carolina
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« Reply #23 on: November 19, 2021, 03:40:08 AM » |
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If you read about it here you'll find numerous differing opinions about how much of what kind of grease needs to be spread where... given that, this write-up probably covers every detail... http://www.valkyrieriders.com/shoptalk/rear_end_service.pptxThis article talks about finding all three O-rings... http://www.valkyrieriders.com/shoptalk/Elusive%203rd%20O-Ring.htm-Mike This is my next job but it's going to be suck it and see.
My initial thoughts were that I'd just be cleaning the splines on the wheel and freshening up with new moly grease but I'm worried that there's a bit more to it concerning the shaft drive and O-rings.
Is there a list of parts anywhere that I'm going to need? I believe there's a neoprene washer and three O- rings. Do they come in a kit by any chance?
I have seen a YouTube video where a guy ( granddaughter helps with the filming) does a spline service. If you've seen it is there anything else I need to know?
Thank you.
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Knapdog
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« Reply #24 on: November 19, 2021, 06:01:44 AM » |
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If you read about it here you'll find numerous differing opinions about how much of what kind of grease needs to be spread where... given that, this write-up probably covers every detail... http://www.valkyrieriders.com/shoptalk/rear_end_service.pptxThis article talks about finding all three O-rings... http://www.valkyrieriders.com/shoptalk/Elusive%203rd%20O-Ring.htm-Mike This is my next job but it's going to be suck it and see.
My initial thoughts were that I'd just be cleaning the splines on the wheel and freshening up with new moly grease but I'm worried that there's a bit more to it concerning the shaft drive and O-rings.
Is there a list of parts anywhere that I'm going to need? I believe there's a neoprene washer and three O- rings. Do they come in a kit by any chance?
I have seen a YouTube video where a guy ( granddaughter helps with the filming) does a spline service. If you've seen it is there anything else I need to know?
Thank you.
That's brilliant, Mike. Thank you. |
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Stay between the hedges!
'98 Honda Valkyrie Tourer⁸
'96 Honda C90
'83 Honda C90C
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Earl43P
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« Reply #25 on: November 19, 2021, 07:02:07 AM » |
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I'd rather be dry than wet, but a Valkyrie shouldn't care one way or the other... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRnLKqCkTCIEarl, are you saying you leave the spring on or off? I'm pretty sure a awful thing happened when DDT's spring was left off once, but I could be mis-remembering... snip -Mike He called it a stopper-ring which I think means the circlip and stop-washer that retains the spring on the driveshaft under tension. I reinstall the spring, circlip and stop-washer, preferring not to have a loose driveshaft spring to drop and roll away while I marry the final drive/driveshaft/wheel together. This design was on the original naked Goldwings from the 70's, spring circlip and stopwasher. They ALL came from the factory with them, who am I to not reinstall them? (Not an engineer but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express a time or two.) |
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08 Goldwing
21 KTM390A
99 Valkyrie IS Sold 5/5/23
VRCC #35672
VRCCDS # 0264
When all else fails, RTFM.
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Chrisj CMA
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« Reply #26 on: November 19, 2021, 09:51:53 AM » |
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I'd rather be dry than wet, but a Valkyrie shouldn't care one way or the other... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRnLKqCkTCIEarl, are you saying you leave the spring on or off? I'm pretty sure a awful thing happened when DDT's spring was left off once, but I could be mis-remembering... snip -Mike He called it a stopper-ring which I think means the circlip and stop-washer that retains the spring on the driveshaft under tension. I reinstall the spring, circlip and stop-washer, preferring not to have a loose driveshaft spring to drop and roll away while I marry the final drive/driveshaft/wheel together. This design was on the original naked Goldwings from the 70's, spring circlip and stopwasher. They ALL came from the factory with them, who am I to not reinstall them? (Not an engineer but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express a time or two.) The ring people want to leave out for some reason is the one on the other end. On the splines that go into the pinion cup. I don’t leave that or any other part off |
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RonW
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« Reply #27 on: November 19, 2021, 09:52:01 AM » |
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If you replace the 2nd oring, you'll have to pull the 5-star driven flange. A teflon washer (5) sits on the obverse side of the 5-star flange. You'll think it's not there but it's under the grease. It's thin and semi-translucent.  And don't lose track of and forget the teflon washer on installation, otherwise this happens.  |
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2000 Valkyrie Tourer
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Knapdog
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« Reply #28 on: November 19, 2021, 10:04:42 AM » |
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Three O-rings, a Dust Seal and Thrust Washer now ordered from UK sources. Thanks all.
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Stay between the hedges!
'98 Honda Valkyrie Tourer⁸
'96 Honda C90
'83 Honda C90C
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JimF2424
Member
Posts: 68
Valkyrie
Gulfport MS
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« Reply #29 on: November 23, 2021, 12:51:02 PM » |
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Locktite LB 8012
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Knapdog
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« Reply #30 on: November 24, 2021, 02:18:36 AM » |
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I've found finding Moly Paste in the UK to be quite difficult. There certainly isn't any Belray or Guarddog or some of the other well known makes you talk about. I have found this though and have bought a 750g tin. It was advertised at £249.99 until I did some trawling and found someone who was selling one for £34.95. He had four tins with date of manufacture April 2021. I've yet to discover what "Dry" means.  |
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« Last Edit: November 24, 2021, 02:20:37 AM by Knapdog »
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Stay between the hedges!
'98 Honda Valkyrie Tourer⁸
'96 Honda C90
'83 Honda C90C
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hubcapsc
Member
Posts: 16769
upstate
South Carolina
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« Reply #31 on: November 24, 2021, 03:16:30 AM » |
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I think that is 50% moly... https://www.rocol.com/datasheets/download/tds/6/Dry%20Moly%20Pastesome of the other ones people have listed on here are 65% moly, like the loctite one... Some of the folks on here who have high mileage final drive parts that are still in good condition use 0% moly grease... Good grease, checked often enough, loosen the four final drive nuts and retighten them only after you are mostly done and the axle is already tightened. The last step, which sounds kind of "mythical", is in the factory service manual. -Mike |
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Knapdog
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« Reply #32 on: November 24, 2021, 03:30:59 AM » |
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I think that is 50% moly... https://www.rocol.com/datasheets/download/tds/6/Dry%20Moly%20Pastesome of the other ones people have listed on here are 65% moly, like the loctite one... Some of the folks on here who have high mileage final drive parts that are still in good condition use 0% moly grease... Good grease, checked often enough, loosen the four final drive nuts and retighten them only after you are mostly done and the axle is already tightened. The last step, which sounds kind of "mythical", is in the factory service manual. -Mike Thanks, Mike. I'm happy with that. I'll be checking the final drive each year and with the Valk getting low mileage it's going to be a pampered lady even with 50% moly. |
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Stay between the hedges!
'98 Honda Valkyrie Tourer⁸
'96 Honda C90
'83 Honda C90C
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steveB (VRCC UK)
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« Reply #33 on: November 24, 2021, 05:48:34 AM » |
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Use Molykote G-n plus paste (as recommended in the Honda manual) I buy it in 500g tins from www.cromwell.co.uk it'll last you forever. Don't forget the oil seal on the drive shaft (mentioned in the Honda manual) and to clean out the pinion cup and blow through the oil ways to the drive box (Honda manual again). Will be assembling a drive box, drive shaft and replacing a rear wheel on a members Valk end of this week beginning of next - you're welcome to drop by and take a look. |
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Knapdog
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« Reply #34 on: November 24, 2021, 09:28:11 AM » |
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Use Molykote G-n plus paste (as recommended in the Honda manual) I buy it in 500g tins from www.cromwell.co.uk it'll last you forever. Don't forget the oil seal on the drive shaft (mentioned in the Honda manual) and to clean out the pinion cup and blow through the oil ways to the drive box (Honda manual again). Will be assembling a drive box, drive shaft and replacing a rear wheel on a members Valk end of this week beginning of next - you're welcome to drop by and take a look. Thank you Steve, always helpful. Mind you, I can't see me buying anything else now that I have the Rocol. How much is the Molycote and what percentage of Moly is it? |
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Stay between the hedges!
'98 Honda Valkyrie Tourer⁸
'96 Honda C90
'83 Honda C90C
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steveB (VRCC UK)
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« Reply #35 on: November 24, 2021, 11:42:38 AM » |
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Honda spec (listed in Section 4 of workshop manual) for molybdenum disulfide paste (not grease) containing more than 40% molybdenum disulphide lists Molykote G-n paste, Honda Moly 60, Rocol ASP or Rocol Paste. Nowhere does it advocate mixing with oils or grease.
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Chrisj CMA
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« Reply #36 on: November 24, 2021, 12:14:43 PM » |
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Honda spec (listed in Section 4 of workshop manual) for molybdenum disulfide paste (not grease) containing more than 40% molybdenum disulphide lists Molykote G-n paste, Honda Moly 60, Rocol ASP or Rocol Paste. Nowhere does it advocate mixing with oils or grease.
Moly in and of itself is a mix of moly which is basically powder and grease. The moly 60 “paste” from Honda says on it to use where GREASE is called for. What’s really important is that whatever grease/paste you use stays in there. The moly60 fails it is not water proof enough. Waterproof heavy equipment grease in the drive, and a little moly paste on the flange has eliminated wear on my bike for over 100,000 miles and four others for an additional combined couple hundred thousand. But do what works for you. |
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Louis
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« Reply #38 on: January 08, 2022, 04:27:13 PM » |
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I was looking for grease with moly in my area. I found Amsoil has a synthetic grease with 6% moly in a 10 oz. tube. Motorkote has an Extreme Pressure grease with 5% moly 14 oz. cartridge. At the Napa store I found a cv joint grease with 3% moly in a 6?? oz. tube and the farm store has their house brand with 3 % moly in a 14 oz. cartridge. I have no experience with any of the above products or with the final drive maintenance procedures, yet. I would like to thank all those that have offered their advice. THANKS !  |
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OttawaWill
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« Reply #39 on: May 17, 2022, 08:10:49 PM » |
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With Valkyrienorway gone, we need to get the factory service manual
hosted somewhere. I'd host it if I guessed that I wouldn't end up getting
hammered by Honda or whoever it is that makes money by selling
"official" copies...
-Mike
Mike Here is a link to the official Honda PDF download. They only charge $16.99, which isn't bad for the information you get. I like having a digital copy to search. I also have the paper copy which looks like someone printed out the PDF and put a fancy cover on it! These with the Clymer manual are fairly comprehensive. Dave Is anyone aware of where to get purchase the Genuine Honda service manual? I found the photocopy version online but would gladly pay for an official copy that will allow you to search and have bookmarks that will bring you to the correct section. I've tried Helm Inc and only manual stores and haven't found one. Cheers! |
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