Darkside... Sorry to bring "THAT" discussion here, but...

[TXFireman07b]

ok it is getting near time for me to change tires... I have read many of the same comments about sizes nut cage mods and mounting and balancing... Are most of the one making the comment on stock or tourings valks or have some of them been done on the IS? I have a 2000 IS. I was also wondering if anyone out there has had any BAD experiences with going to the darkside and if they are more related to change in handling or if it is a bad idea to do so... Your comments will greatly help my decision..  Thank you again. Also I was wondering what effect weather had as far as riding DS vs MC
Steve

[Serk]

TXFireman07b - I've seen I/S'es that are Darkside, but mine's a standard/tourer, so can't help a whole lot there...

Sun came out a bit yesterday, got some more pics of it:





The roads cleared up enough Sunday afternoon, I went for a longer ride. Rode for about 1.5 - 2 hours or so, going over as many surface types as I could find... Asphalt, pothole'd asphalt, gravel, dirt, mud (Think I interrupted some teenagers that were..... busy... at a secluded lil' park near here...), uneven pavement, speed bumps, wet road, dry road, grass, etc. etc. etc...

As has been stated, definitely different, but I was getting used to it quite quickly. I spent about 30 minutes in the local high school parking lot just making slow circles and figure eights, that seemed to help a LOT. (I try to do that most springs to remind myself anyway) I'd go so far as to recommend that exercise to everyone, but especially anyone going dark side, just spend an afternoon in a large open parking lot lugging along in 2nd gear making turns as tightly as you can in both directions...

[Lyn-Del]

I was wondering what effect weather had as far as riding DS vs MC
Steve

The car tire will have much better traction on the road, simply because there's more of it on the road.  We've not seen any lack of traction when leaning, either.  Wizard found that in emergency braking, he stopped in less than half the room he expected to need with the bike tire.  

Other than the usual warnings (flaming death, etc.), I've not heard any real problems with the tire, other than the fact it wants to stand the bike up straight.  In fact, when Wizard mounted mine on my travel bike, I took it out for a test ride and found that I can turn much tighter with the car tire because that feeling that the bike wants to fall down is gone -- the bike wanted to stand up instead.

Yep, after all these years, and well over 100,000 miles, I still feel like the bike wants to fall into the middle of a circle.  Still working on that!

[Choirboy]

Goodyear TripTred 205/60/16....had to do nutjob and put spacer on to move the fender frame (that chrome thing that bolts to the fender) SLIGHTLY TO THE RIGHT.......Tire turns take a little more effort, but the ride, wear and traction in dry and especially wet weather is excellent!!

[RainMaker]

Send and email to: "Dark Lord of the Sith" <darkside0001@hotmail.com

Don't forget to ask for your cookie!

20K on darkside so far and would never go back.  The difference in braking (takes a lot longer to lock up the rear tire) is incredible.

RainMaker

[Serk]

Send and email to: "Dark Lord of the Sith" <darkside0001@hotmail.com

Don't forget to ask for your cookie!

20K on darkside so far and would never go back.  The difference in braking (takes a lot longer to lock up the rear tire) is incredible.

RainMaker

  Mail to that e-mail address bounces... Oh well, guess no DS# for me... Somehow, I'll survive... Day by day......... 

[RainMaker]

darkside0001@hotmail.com is showing as the correct email.  You can always go on the main board and post a request and see what happens. 

[franco6]

everyone is going with 205 s. as any one tried a narrower tire as in 185?or less ?

[Houdini]

Are most of the one making the comment on stock or tourings valks or have some of them been done on the IS?

TXFireman07b,  I am running a CT on an I/S and so are Wanderer, Rainmaker, Capn. Speedo, Subman, etc, etc.

A CT is as wonderful improvement on our I/S's as it is on any flavor of Valkyrie; maybe more so due to the added weight of our ride.

The roads cleared up enough Sunday afternoon, I went for a longer ride. Rode for about 1.5 - 2 hours or so, going over as many surface types as I could find... Asphalt, pothole'd asphalt, gravel, dirt, mud (Think I interrupted some teenagers that were..... busy... at a secluded lil' park near here...), uneven pavement, speed bumps, wet road, dry road, grass, etc. etc. etc...

Brian, what air pressure did you go with on the dark side?

[Valkpilot]

As has been stated, definitely different, but I was getting used to it quite quickly. I spent about 30 minutes in the local high school parking lot just making slow circles and figure eights, that seemed to help a LOT.

Don't forget you can "tune" the feel somewhat by adjusting shock stiffness and air pressure.  Personally, I find that a slightly stiffer shock setting is better with DS.  As far as air pressure goes, I run at 40 psi.  Below 38 psi, I find it tracks the road imperfections more noticably and feels squirmy in curves.

[Houdini]

As far as air pressure goes, I run at 40 psi.  Below 38 psi, I find it tracks the road imperfections more noticably and feels squirmy in curves.

I concur.  I actually run mine a little higher at 42 psi.  At lower pressure I can feel the sidewall flexing in a hard corner and I don't track the road/tar snakes at higher pressure.  My tire may wear out in the center at 30 to 35K, but that's alright with me.

[SANDMAN5]

I was also wondering if anyone out there has had any BAD experiences with going to the darkside and if they are more related to change in handling or if it is a bad idea to do so...

Depends on what you call "bad experience". There are a few (very few) that go back to round
tires after trying the Darkside. The majority stay with it, though. The main thing to keep in
mind is...DO NOT let anybody decide for you!!! The only way you will KNOW if YOU like it is
if you mount a 'car tar' on your Valk and ride for long enough to make up your own mind. I've
lost track of how many Darkside miles I've got (close to 40,000?) and I honestly can't think
of any reason not to stay with it. YMMV.

[Serk]

I'm running 42 PSI in the rear. I had my Progressive's already cranked down about as stiff as they'd get before hand (I've never been accused of being petite ) so I can't really add any more stiffness there...

Heading to work now, this'll be my first interstate riding on the DS tire...

[Valker]

I'm the odd one out on air pressure. I like 26-30# in my c/t rear.

[Disco]

everyone is going with 205 s. as any one tried a narrower tire as in 185?or less ?

I have a 195/65-16 Continental Vanco that's about to go on the Valkyrie.  This was Patron's favorite DS tire for the Valkyrie, and after really liking his DS recommendation for the 'wing, I'm excited to try it.  They are discontinued, but I found a couple on the VRCC Classifieds.  Bill Parish is running the other and likes it.  The 175/60-16 Dunlop Winter Sport Run Flat I had on the 'wing - slightly narrower than stock - was fantastic.  It would work on the Valkyrie, and is practically as wide as the stock MC tire, but is significantly narrower than the more popular options.  One thing to consider, though, is that on the (heavier) 'wing, according to JimmyT there was no lifting of the outer edge of the tire in turns.  The entire tread width remained in contact with the road. 

[TXFireman07b]

also I was wondering if anyone has used the tire pressure monitoring system on their bike. I saw them and was wondering how well they work on a bike. I love the one on my Avalanche..

[Disco]

I had a Doran 360M on the 'wing and LOVED it.  Talk about peace of mind.  The warning light/sound is intermittent when the user-programmed pressure in a tire drops 12.5% and constant when it drops 25%, but what I really like about it is it gives psi readings for the tires.  I have one on the shelf now and will put it on the Valkyrie at next tire change - soon.
http://www.doranmfg.com/motorcycle-tire-pressure-monitoring-systems.htm

I saw these guys at the Wing Ding in Tulsa last year and it looks good, too.
http://www.tirepressuremonitor.com/products/motorcycle-tire-pressure-monitor/

[SideCar]

If I weren't so cheap, I would have them on all my 2 wheelers.  If you decide to use a monitor system like the Doran that screws onto your valve stem, I suggest you make sure you have a metal stem so that the extra weight on the end of the stem isn't contributing to early failure of stems like the stock (especially if you have lost the L clip/brace).

[Disco]

Good point about the metal stems.  The Doran kit includes them. 

The sensors on the 'wing were, and the ones on the Valkyrie will be mounted inside the tires - screwed onto the bottom of the stem.  They'll work fine mounted outside the tire, but are much more likely to disappear. 

BTW, if you plan to use the combo of in-tire TPMS + Dyna Beads, be sure to add the beads while the tire/rim are broken down for sensor installation.  Once the sensors are installed, the only thing that can pass through them is air. 

[MP]

I am like valker.  I was about to take the DS tire off running mid-high 30/s.  Dropped it to 26#, and most of the wander went away, plus a softer ride, and better tire wear.  Try them all out from 42 to 26, and YOU decide.  The tire will handle them all.

MP

[Valkpilot]

I'm the odd one out on air pressure. I like 26-30# in my c/t rear.

Are you running the Michelin Hydroedge?

Oops, went back and reviewed the thread and answered my own question.  You are.

The Hydroedge has a unique shoulder profile (it's very angular at the transition from tread to sidewall.)  I wonder if that is partially why lower pressure works better for you?

[5_19]

I'm the odd one out on air pressure. I like 26-30# in my c/t rear.

I am with you Valker. Tried varies pressures and I prefer 26-28 psi with the shock set on 5. The most miles I have gotten out of the DS is only 18000. 

[asfltdncr]

I live on a dirt road and I think the CT is better on smooth gravel.The ruts will throw you around a little and the one hazard that I think is the most dangerous are those "wrinkles" in the asphalt.Those will widen your eyes and speed up the heart rate a tad.

[Serk]

Rode on it quite a bit this weekend, and overall still glad I made the switch...

But... Extremely gusty winds at freeway speeds in thick but fast traffic on badly grooved pavement = HIGH pucker factor... Not sure if it was any worse than a motorcycle tire or not, but definitely got my attention...

I'm also noticing it's taking me more distance to make turns. Not sure if that's the tire, or just me being conscious of something... different... in the handling, taking it easy and still getting used to it... But there have been a few times making corners I make all the time that I've cut it WAY wider than I usually do, with ALMOST very... Wanderer like results...

[piper51]

What about when you hit a dish in the road from truck tires, etc? Will the car tire hunt?? I am considering darkside too.

[Houdini]

the one hazard that I think is the most dangerous are those "wrinkles" in the asphalt.

That's where the higher air pressure improves things.  My bike was following those snakes around until I raised the pressure.  Now I mostly just roll over them.

I'm also noticing it's taking me more distance to make turns.

I did that too at first.  Now I can easily do u-turns in a very tight circle. I think it is the sensation that the tire wants to stand up that threw me off at first.  Once I got used to that I can now turn her sharp.

What about when you hit a dish in the road from truck tires

Your bike wants to follow the track and will head down hill in almost every instance.  You will get used to this eventually and anticipate it.

There is a learning curve to become a dark-sider.  It's worth the effort in my opinion.

[piper51]

What is the nutcage mod everyone is talking about....Sorry, I am a newbie!

[SideCar]

It's just removing the little "nut cage" around the nuts for the bolts that come through the sides of the fender.  It gives you a little extra space cushion for the wider tire.

[piper51]

guess I'll see that when I take the wheel off?

[Gear Jammer]

guess I'll see that when I take the wheel off?

Yep, on inside wall of fender up high where the fender rail bolts pass through.

[Daniel Meyer]

http://lifeisaroad.com/stories/2005/08/24/valkyrieRearFenderNutCageMod.html

[Serk]

So... Dallas folks...

635 south or east (Whichever description you prefer) of 75, the 3-5 mile stretch that's badly grooved...

I've never been a fan of that area, but with the DS tire it's gotten REALLY bad... As in moving over to the slow land and going 65 with white knuckles bad... Bike's developed a very disconcerting oscillation above 70 in this area... Anyone else notice this, or is there something wrong in my setup?

[Valkpilot]

So... Dallas folks...

635 south or east (Whichever description you prefer) of 75, the 3-5 mile stretch that's badly grooved...

I've never been a fan of that area, but with the DS tire it's gotten REALLY bad... As in moving over to the slow land and going 65 with white knuckles bad... Bike's developed a very disconcerting oscillation above 70 in this area... Anyone else notice this, or is there something wrong in my setup?

Are you still running relatively low pressure?  I find that behavior is pronounced below about 38 psi on mine.  At 40 psi, no problem, in fact better than the MC tire on grooved pavement.

[Serk]

Are you still running relatively low pressure?  I find that behavior is pronounced below about 38 psi on mine.  At 40 psi, no problem, in fact better than the MC tire on grooved pavement.

42 PSI... Was tempted to go a hair higher because of my... er... non-petiteness, but really didn't wanna go TOO high either...

[Valkpilot]

Are you still running relatively low pressure?  I find that behavior is pronounced below about 38 psi on mine.  At 40 psi, no problem, in fact better than the MC tire on grooved pavement.

42 PSI... Was tempted to go a hair higher because of my... er... non-petiteness, but really didn't wanna go TOO high either...

It's a head scratcher then.  I'd keep looking for optimum rear tire pressure.  I'm assuming you're running 40 psi or so up front too. 

You mentioned Progressive shocks.  Are they heavy duty?  Is it possible they are worn out?   Mine was shaking its booty in curves and it was the rear shocks.

[Daniel Meyer]

I would say something's wrong

I found mine behaved MUCH better on the severely grooved stuff with the car tire...dirt and gravel too. My speeds are WAY up in those conditions.

What tire are you running? Try 36 psi.

Don't "white knuckle" it either...give her some head to squirm a bit...choose your line and direction and don't let that vary but she may squirm...

Also, and maybe important...what front tire are you running? New? Worn?

[Serk]

It's a head scratcher then.  I'd keep looking for optimum rear tire pressure.  I'm assuming you're running 40 psi or so up front too. 

You mentioned Progressive shocks.  Are they heavy duty?  Is it possible they are worn out?   Mine was shaking its booty in curves and it was the rear shocks.

Yeah, I run 42 on the front tire as well. The Progressive's are the heavy duty ones as I recall. It's possible they're worn out, but I didn't have this issue until I put the DS tire on...

I would say something's wrong

I found mine behaved MUCH better on the severely grooved stuff with the car tire...dirt and gravel too. My speeds are WAY up in those conditions.

What tire are you running? Try 36 psi.

Don't "white knuckle" it either...give her some head to squirm a bit...choose your line and direction and don't let that vary but she may squirm...

Also, and maybe important...what front tire are you running? New? Worn?

I'm running the Goodyear Assurance Triple Tread... I'll try lowering the pressure for my next outing...

And yeah, once I realized I was white knuckling it I let up and let it wander, but it started feeling like a tank slapper was developing it was getting so bad... I'm used to having the bike walk under me a bit, but this was getting bad. Only on the grooved area on 635 though, everywhere else it was fine...

The front is a Metzeler that's just getting good and broken in (~5,000 miles on it).

[godfire]

So... Dallas folks...

635 south or east (Whichever description you prefer) of 75, the 3-5 mile stretch that's badly grooved...

I've never been a fan of that area, but with the DS tire it's gotten REALLY bad... As in moving over to the slow land and going 65 with white knuckles bad... Bike's developed a very disconcerting oscillation above 70 in this area... Anyone else notice this, or is there something wrong in my setup?

I know that area well.
Not a bike story but a cage. I had a SC300 and went from a set of Goodyear tires to Yokohamas and thought I was going to crash and burn first time through there. Problem might just be a bad stretch of road. Pretty scary on the sportster also.

[piper51]

thanks Daniel for the nut cage mod info!!!! I'll check out your website more....

[Serk]

Dropped the PSI in the rear to the mid 30's and made the Kessel run in under 12 parsecs... Er, I mean... Made the 635 badly grooved section run...

Felt like a totally different bike. She still wallered around some, but MUCH more controllable than she was the other day... Now my transition to the dark side is complete... Thanks again for all the wisdom ya'll!