magnacharger phase 2

[rdunbar123]

Just got the bike back and clear weather. The Honda shop treated me fairly on the hours after the thermostate mistake. the throttle cables work but will need replaced. After reading Magnachargers detailed directions I guess the new kit need longer cables, so the cable issue was  my fault. Bike needs tuning. it has a significant "rolling idle" which I hope can be tamed in spite of the fact I like the sound, it is a pain in start and stop. Above 1800 rpm is very smooth and the power is instataneous. Am taking it easy for a few days to get the feel for it and just to let everything start to work in. Seems to run great on 93 octane. I amgoing to get it dyno tuned at a local shop by a mechanic that races his own bikes and works on all metric brands. Probably should have used him to do the install. It does make a difference in performance. Thank to everyone on all sites who have given me advice. I would like  someone to comment on the rolling idle. is this something I'm going to live with to some degree?

[roboto65]

I do not have one so this is just from what I have seen and the videos I have seen and reading but the rolling Idle or lope perse is part of the Supercharger for some reason all the videos I have seen had it going on.

 Sounds COOL LOL but not sure how it affects everything Congrats on the Supercharger send some Pics!!

[Jeff K]

Just got the bike back and clear weather. The Honda shop treated me fairly on the hours after the thermostate mistake. the throttle cables work but will need replaced. After reading Magnachargers detailed directions I guess the new kit need longer cables, so the cable issue was  my fault. Bike needs tuning. it has a significant "rolling idle" which I hope can be tamed in spite of the fact I like the sound, it is a pain in start and stop. Above 1800 rpm is very smooth and the power is instataneous. Am taking it easy for a few days to get the feel for it and just to let everything start to work in. Seems to run great on 93 octane. I amgoing to get it dyno tuned at a local shop by a mechanic that races his own bikes and works on all metric brands. Probably should have used him to do the install. It does make a difference in performance. Thank to everyone on all sites who have given me advice. I would like  someone to comment on the rolling idle. is this something I'm going to live with to some degree?

An excessive idle surge is not "normal" it should idle fairly smooth. Things that cause an excessive surge is
Idle speed set to high
Vacuum leak (this is the #1 cause of surge)
Fuel pooling in the manifold
Rich idle circuit

Be very careful with tuners, they can do a lot of harm in a short amount of time.
And running lean or detonation will make short work of your pistons.
Be sure the install is correct before you go into making tuning changes.
Others have installed the "kit" and have had "out of the box" success.

What are you doing to control the ignition?
Beware of detonation!!!!!

[roboto65]

I stand corrected sort of LOL

[fstsix]

I would not put it on a Dyno, unless you have the (Dyna 3000 Ignition) with timing 'retard', if you put some hard pulls on it you may be sorry, Did you buy the upgrade Carb Kit Mikuni? if not your idle will be a little choppy but should be stable, Mine idles completely smooth very mellow, unless you STAB IT and then all Hell breaks loose. 

[rdunbar123]

Is the dyna 3000 still available for the valk. I have seen them for the tourer and for the standard but not for the interstate. will th std work on the IS? you know, tomorrow I am going to check and see what I actually have. Just to make sure the PO didn't put one on. Just curious, has any out there or someone you know damaged an engine with this kit. Believe me I will not go any further after hearing these opinions until i'm satisfied I know either that the tuner I take it too has done superchargers before also my question about the dyna 3000 stands. is the IS any different. Thanks guys  I guess I'll
just have to ride my raider in the meantime.

[Ratdog]

Is the dyna 3000 still available for the valk. I have seen them for the tourer and for the standard but not for the interstate. will th std work on the IS? you know, tomorrow I am going to check and see what I actually have. Just to make sure the PO didn't put one on. Just curious, has any out there or someone you know damaged an engine with this kit. Believe me I will not go any further after hearing these opinions until i'm satisfied I know either that the tuner I take it too has done superchargers before also my question about the dyna 3000 stands. is the IS any different. Thanks guys  I guess I'll
just have to ride my raider in the meantime.

Your ICM will be behind the L/S side cover.  I doubt that a Dyna 3000 would come with your kit... and, they may not even be made anymore (as I recall).  If you can find one... GRAB it... no matter which one it is (doubt it makes a difference).  JeffK has a lot of experience with a blown Valk engine... pay close attention to advice he tosses your way.

[rdunbar123]

Thanks,
I know it didn't come with the kit, I just bought the bike six weeks ago and have never checked. Has anyone installed a supercharger without changing the ECM to dyna 3000? also don't you have to install a pressure switch to activate the retard mode?

[rdunbar123]

To JeffK or another expert. I am truly getting my *ss kicked by this supercharger. The money is not as much of an issue as I didn't do my homework and operated on the premise that a skilled motorcyle mechanic could do an install that I could have done if I had the time. Should have researched every thing first better. I am riding my backup cycle(the raider) until I get the idle and tuning resolvled by someone capable if I can't find a capable mechanic in the houston area(any help?), I will just have to work on it when I can myself based on the advice on this website, first will be to fix the idle. To add to my overall satisfaction yesterday  I noticed what look like motor oil in a small stream (not much ) on the manifold on the kickstand side of the bike. It looked like it came from the bottom of the joint between the blower and the manifold. wiped it off and it won't come back unless the engine is hot. checked my oil none missing, but it was such a little amount of clear oil it wouldn' show for a long time. took the litttle stainless steel pulley guard off thinking it came from the case and no oil there. the point being there shouldn't be oil up there at all should there? the blower is similar to the ones we use in the plant as vacuum pumps and they are not lubricated. Any help will be appreciated. Thanks in advance. Not being picky, but as far as I can tell Jeff is the #1 expert and I would appreciate his advice and the advice of others who have installed this device either with good or bad results. Actualy it is killing me not to ride the Valk as i like it better than the Raider.

[steveB (VRCC UK)]

Don't give up on it ! Mine surged on first fitting but after fiddling with intake rubber and checking all gaskets are cynched tight she improved. I'm in England, a long way from Magna, but their service has been second to none.
The idle finally settled down after drilling a small hole thro the butterfly (recomended on this site I recall) can give you the size later this weekend when I,m at home.
Mine seems picky about fuel line pressure and runs better on high humidity, hot days.
We set her up on a local drag racers dyno, he builds turbo and supercharged bikes so knows the pitfalls. Again I can let you have jet sizes etc. later. I'd second JeffK, be wary of 'conventional' bike tuners.
I'm 45K miles up since fitting and she's compleated several European tours without too much bother, the blown Valkyrie is very addictive.

[rdunbar123]

Thanks for the info, I do think due to the economy that Bill is by himself at magnacharger over here. Is the the one in california the same one? Also what carb do you have? I have the Mikuni and no fuel pump. I recall someone saying there had been achange in the package. Thanks.

[Jeff K]

The nose of the supercharger has clear oil in it. Is it coming from the joint between the drive gear housing (nose) and the supercharger housing?
It's special oil according to Bill Bushling.

Do you have the Mikuni carb upgrade? I'd have to assume so since you had throttle cable issues.

Has anyone ever damaged a motor due to the supercharger?
Yes.
Many people have run tens of thousands of miles without a problem, and many have done severe damage.

Heck I think TJ toasted his motor in just a couple of days.

Detonation will cause the pistons to break, normally the three on the left side of the motor.
What causes this?
Too much timing... it's good to retard timing while under boost. I'd find a Dyna some way some how, and they are all the same. Or there was a thread a few days ago about some other methods of retarding timing. http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,13115.0.html

Lean fuel mixture... Vacuum leaks, tuning problems

Heat... heat is a big enemy, the supercharger is heating the charge air already, add the ambient heat to that and you can have trouble. I always keep that in mind when I get the urge to throttle up when the temps are in the 90s-100s. The bike always seems much happier when the weather is cool.

So, when\if you put this thing on the dyno, the tuner is going to tell you it’s too rich. So he will tweak the jets to lean it out, that will help the power on the dyno but it will put you dangerously close to detonation. Be sure they don't get it too lean.
When you get on the throttle and you hear marbles rattling around in the motor... that is the sound of damage on its way. I actually made a "scope" from a little listening device I bought at Radio shack, I can clamp it to the motor and plug it in my ear to listen for slight hints of detonation.

In reality it shouldn't need any "tuning" it is supposed to run and idle "right out of the box".
I haven't had any of the new kits yet but I have talked to people that have. They didn't say anything about needing tuning (re-jetting)

If it has a surge at idle it could be a vacuum leak, under the supercharger, at the carb, ???
What idle speed are you set at? Mine all idled around 900 rpms

Once it’s warmed up it shouldn't surge much at all.
Cold start?
It’s a long way from the carb to the spark plugs, you need to pump the throttle a few times, sometimes many times to get some fuel to the motor. You will learn how it starts best in short order.
I've helped a bunch of people correct their blower bike problems and I've always found it to be fuel delivery issues or Vacuum leaks.

There are a few of us on the board here that have blower experience, if you have the mechanical skills I'm sure that between the group here and your skills you can fix this yourself

[rdunbar123]

Jeff,
thanks for the offer. having never ridden a wing of valk before, I cannot judge the noises well. even stock when i accelerated, the bike made a noise, sounds no different with the charger. I will take the tank off tomorrow and look for leaks. About the clear oil, I will look once I get the tank off. Is this a problem or is it shipped this way? I found a dyna and ordered it. I understand to use the retard you need to set a pressure switch problably at 5psi? to send the dyna unit to  ground. I have access to a gas analyzer and a  table for converting CO to A/F ratio. what should I aim for. This would be good at idle but without a dyno how do i measure at higher rpm under load? I'm asking too many questions, first would be to get the idle fixed. i will work on that and then worry about the next. Having a hell of a time getting hold of Magnacharger. Thanks. BTW for anyone else I found the Dyna 3000 unit at Bulldogs custom cycles.

[rdunbar123]

I went home and look the shaft at on the blower drive has oil on it. I assume this in not good if it is a sealed unit. does anyone know what model number the blower is? Should any oil be leaking?

[Jeff K]

Jeff,
thanks for the offer. having never ridden a wing of valk before, I cannot judge the noises well. even stock when i accelerated, the bike made a noise, sounds no different with the charger. I will take the tank off tomorrow and look for leaks. About the clear oil, I will look once I get the tank off. Is this a problem or is it shipped this way? I found a dyna and ordered it. I understand to use the retard you need to set a pressure switch problably at 5psi? to send the dyna unit to  ground. I have access to a gas analyzer and a  table for converting CO to A/F ratio. what should I aim for. This would be good at idle but without a dyno how do i measure at higher rpm under load? I'm asking too many questions, first would be to get the idle fixed. i will work on that and then worry about the next. Having a hell of a time getting hold of Magnacharger. Thanks. BTW for anyone else I found the Dyna 3000 unit at Bulldogs custom cycles.

I set mine at about 3 psi. On the dyno it didn't make any difference when I retarded, so I like to play it safe.

[pvan]

The rolling idle issue I had got solved by drilling out the butterfly after I fixed a couple small vaccum leaks but I cannot remember what size bit I used I will look thru my bits because I remember I bought a size I did not have.
I also found that my manifold needed to be re-torqued after first torque so check this.

[Jeff K]

The rolling idle issue I had got solved by drilling out the butterfly after I fixed a couple small vaccum leaks but I cannot remember what size bit I used I will look thru my bits because I remember I bought a size I did not have.
I also found that my manifold needed to be re-torqued after first torque so check this.

Keep in mind that he has the Mikuni carb.
I know drilling a hole helped the CV carbs, but I have not heard of that tick used on the Mikuni. Mark would be a good source for that.

[rdunbar123]

Jeff,
I finally got hold of bill he I guess had been at a show or somthing. He told me to see if tightening the blower housing where the shaft comes out helps to stop the oil. he said it was synthetic 30w gear oil. he also told me it held four oz of oil and how to measure i. On the rolling Idle he said to check for vacuum leaks, then he put me in touch with the man at MIkuni who actuall set the carb up four him. It is a 45MM hsr. I actually had one on a stage 4 roadstar I had. he told me how to adjust the pilot circuit and if that didn' t work to lower the needle one mark. very helpful. I do intend to get a pressure switch and set for 2-3 psi cut off. how much retard to you use. I will only dyno the bike when I get this set up. I'm sure I will be back for questions. will send pictures if I can figure out the camera. Mechanical things don't scare me because they make sense. Thanks for the advice guys.

[rdunbar123]

celbrated too early. they said they were out of stock. I told them not to bother going to dynojet, so I guess I am looking for a dyna 3000 used or otherwise

[rdunbar123]

Just thinking would a blowoff valve set to 3 psi that vents? (to intake  or outside or somewher?) protect me.

[Jeff K]

Just thinking would a blowoff valve set to 3 psi that vents? (to intake  or outside or somewher?) protect me.

Protect you from what?
You'll loose power for sure.
You need to control timing not boost.

[rdunbar123]

sorry, my personal moment of retardation. one problem at a time. oil leak, rough idle timing. What about the trigger wheel?

[fstsix]

You mean a 'Waste Gate'  my Turbo Sandrail used one not the same as a pop off valve on a Blower, That rolling RPM @ idle how much does it fluctuate? that Mikuni is very tunable, i have had a 45 HSR for years, but you do not have the bypass tube you may  have a rolling idle unlike mine, the bypass tube @ idle will do just that  bypass the Blower, so it just sucks down the back tube into the Manifold. I think you may always have a little of that, not a bad thing just will Scare Hardlys a little more at the stop lights LOL!! , all the Blowers that my friends have ALL roll up and down, just the fuel puddling in the manifold. so all being said i have not heard the Magnachager with the bypass Delete.

[Jeff K]

sorry, my personal moment of retardation. one problem at a time. oil leak, rough idle timing. What about the trigger wheel?

The "trigger wheel" is a modified trigger wheel to provide more timing not less.

[rdunbar123]

The idle will go between 800 and 1800, sometimes settle down and if set a ~1500 is stable. I got hold of Bill Bushling and he gave me the number of the person who sets his carbs. Remember the Honda guys messed with mine. I was told it was a Mikuni 45Hsr which is what I had on my roadstar stage 4 kit. He told me what he would do is turn the pilot air screw in and then back off 2.5 turns instead of the usual 2. set the idle and then do the turn in until it runs rough and turn back out until it runs rough and set between the two and readjust the idle. if this doesn't work drop the main needle one mark. This presupposes I have checked for leaks. First I need to try to tighten nose of the blower to stop the seepage. Bill seems to think the bolts are loose or one has bottomed out. At least this is one I think honda is innocent on as they did not have to touch these on the install. Oh well I know where I will spend my saturday.

[fstsix]

Is your belt nice and tight? if not it will act irratic, it must be real tight. also the more you turn the idle mixture screw out the leaner it will run, not sure what slow jet you have but i am about 3 turns out, remember this is reverse from the stock Valkyrie carb, 'dont ask me how i know that'. it may be loading up at idle, check your plugs if black you will know.

[fstsix]

just trying to make ya feel better is this what it is doing?

Jim Hull's Vega StationWagon	powered by Aeva

[dreamaker]

Pretty cool video!!! That is the kind of cars we see in Mt Clemens, Mich. on Wed. cruise nite. You can hardly believe they are driving them on the street.

Dan