1500 gold wing final drive...

[hubcapsc]

I won the bid for a 1500 gold wing final drive on eBay yesterday for $39.00... the picture of
the splines was murky, so I called the seller who inspected them and said they showed no
wear.

I looked at shop presses too... I don't have a place for a shop press, and a lot of people on
mechanic forums foo foo the $200 20 ton shop presses with bottle jacks anyhow. Plus,
people like me who don't know what they are doing can hurt themselves with shop presses...
My local NAPA place has a shop with that kind of stuff in the back, I used to go there and
the guy was happy to use his giant compressor to blow out my caliper pistons, so I guess
I'll go there to get the splines pressed out of the 1500 wing ring gear and into my Valkyrie
ring gear.

I have two final drives with worn splines... we'll see if I can refurb them and maybe even paint them
so they don't look so bad... there was at least one year that final drives weren't painted gray,
they were polished and clear coated, I don't think I'm up for that 

Maybe there's more to this than I realize, maybe not, I'll find out 

-Mike

[hal47]

Let us know how it works out Mike,I also purchased a wing final drive. Like your garage.lol

[hubcapsc]

Let us know how it works out Mike,I also purchased a wing final drive. Like your garage.lol

I plan on removing the ring gear from the wing fd and and from one of the Valkyrie fds
soon after I get the wing fd... we'll see how it goes... I plan on calling you if I run into
trouble  ...

-Mike

[old2soon]

Check grumpys posts. I believe he just recently went thru this procedure in his shop. RIDE SAFE.

[hubcapsc]

Check grumpys posts. I believe he just recently went thru this procedure in his shop. RIDE SAFE.

I've read them. Grumpy and Hal47 are my main inspirations... 

Rickyd rebuilt one too, I don't think he salvaged splines from
an old wing, though, I think he bought a new ($200+) Valkyrie ring gear...

-Mike

[Ricky-D]

That's correct.

I replaced the ring and pinion gear and the pinion cup along with the drive shaft and drive flange.

Plus a few other small things.

***

[97Valk_CT_Euless]

I ended up rebuilding mine from parts from HDL/HPD.  All bearings, all seals. Kinda got my butt kicked getting the pinion roller bearing out.  Avoid that if possible.  There must be a trick but I still don't know it. 

You'll need to fab some tools to get it all done, but it's do-able. 

I'm glad someone tried the press-out idea.  Thought about that when I had it apart but already had my parts on order.

[sandy]

Mike: Try this if you'd like. I compared a wing and Valk drive units a few years ago. On a workbench, it looked like the problem was one of the 4 mounting bolts was different. Determine which one and cut it off. Then mount the wing unit (3 bolts) to your bike to check for fit. Let us know if it might work. If this is possible, it might be a way to get home from a trip if a local shop has wing drives but not Valk units.

I won the bid for a 1500 gold wing final drive on eBay yesterday for $39.00... the picture of
the splines was murky, so I called the seller who inspected them and said they showed no
wear.

I looked at shop presses too... I don't have a place for a shop press, and a lot of people on
mechanic forums foo foo the $200 20 ton shop presses with bottle jacks anyhow. Plus,
people like me who don't know what they are doing can hurt themselves with shop presses...
My local NAPA place has a shop with that kind of stuff in the back, I used to go there and
the guy was happy to use his giant compressor to blow out my caliper pistons, so I guess
I'll go there to get the splines pressed out of the 1500 wing ring gear and into my Valkyrie
ring gear.

I have two final drives with worn splines... we'll see if I can refurb them and maybe even paint them
so they don't look so bad... there was at least one year that final drives weren't painted gray,
they were polished and clear coated, I don't think I'm up for that 

Maybe there's more to this than I realize, maybe not, I'll find out 

-Mike

[Grumpy]

I ended up rebuilding mine from parts from HDL/HPD.  All bearings, all seals. Kinda got my butt kicked getting the pinion roller bearing out.  Avoid that if possible.  There must be a trick but I still don't know it. 

You'll need to fab some tools to get it all done, but it's do-able. 

I'm glad someone tried the press-out idea.  Thought about that when I had it apart but already had my parts on order.

I have a tool I fabbed on the mill for the front pinion retainer, it engages the 20 or so teeth in the retainer, and is 1/2 in drive so it can be torqued when reassembling. Willing to loan it to anyone that needs it.

[hubcapsc]

I ended up rebuilding mine from parts from HDL/HPD.  All bearings, all seals. Kinda got my butt kicked getting the pinion roller bearing out.  Avoid that if possible.  There must be a trick but I still don't know it. 

You'll need to fab some tools to get it all done, but it's do-able. 

I'm glad someone tried the press-out idea.  Thought about that when I had it apart but already had my parts on order.

I have a tool I fabbed on the mill for the front pinion retainer, it engages the 20 or so teeth in the retainer, and is 1/2 in drive so it can be torqued when reassembling. Willing to loan it to anyone that needs it.

I think I can get the ring gear out with no special tools, just take off the eight bolts and the case comes apart.
The manual sez that the ring gear might stay in the case and need pressed out, but I'm hoping not...

I think the retainer Grumpy mentions is only needed if you are replacing the pinion bearings...

Do I have a rude surprise awaiting me? 

-Mike

[Smokinjoe-VRCCDS#0005]

A picture is worth a thousand words....Take some of the steps in progress 

[hal47]

Mike if your looking for help from me, sounds like the blind leading the blind to me. LOL

[Grumpy]

I ended up rebuilding mine from parts from HDL/HPD.  All bearings, all seals. Kinda got my butt kicked getting the pinion roller bearing out.  Avoid that if possible.  There must be a trick but I still don't know it. 

You'll need to fab some tools to get it all done, but it's do-able. 

I'm glad someone tried the press-out idea.  Thought about that when I had it apart but already had my parts on order.

I have a tool I fabbed on the mill for the front pinion retainer, it engages the 20 or so teeth in the retainer, and is 1/2 in drive so it can be torqued when reassembling. Willing to loan it to anyone that needs it.

I think I can get the ring gear out with no special tools, just take off the eight bolts and the case comes apart.
The manual sez that the ring gear might stay in the case and need pressed out, but I'm hoping not...

I think the retainer Grumpy mentions is only needed if you are replacing the pinion bearings...

Do I have a rude surprise awaiting me? 

-Mike

The ring will come out fairly easy, after you have split the case, the ring gear will be in the part of the case next to the wheel, just insert 2 flat screw drivers between the gear and the case, and pry, it will pop right out. The bearing on the ring gear can be removed the same way.

[Ricky-D]

If you do a proper cleaning job of the pumpkin cases and bearings,, there will be no good reason to replace the bearings,, and it will save you a lot of money cause those bearings are expensive.

If one bearing were to go bad at a later time it would not worry me for a number of reasons.

(1) they will let you know far ahead of time with noise before self destructing.
(2) they are oil bathed which will make the destruction process very slow giving plenty of advance notice.
(3) you can probably run for thousands of miles on bad bearing in the pumpkin, and not leave you at the side of the road.

***

[Grumpy]

If you do a proper cleaning job of the pumpkin cases and bearings,, there will be no good reason to replace the bearings,, and it will save you a lot of money cause those bearings are expensive.

If one bearing were to go bad at a later time it would not worry me for a number of reasons.

(1) they will let you know far ahead of time with noise before self destructing.
(2) they are oil bathed which will make the destruction process very slow giving plenty of advance notice.
(3) you can probably run for thousands of miles on bad bearing in the pumpkin, and not leave you at the side of the road.


***

One word of warning, if one goes bad, it will probably screw up the others also. I had a pinion bearing start making noise on the way home from inzane. When I tore it down, the pinion bearing was bad, but the ring gear bearings, the needle bearing on the pinion were all rough from the metal flakes that had circulated with the oil. Ended up replacing all of them. If you feel any roughness or play, replace it, or you will pay dearly when it has to be repaired. I speak from experience. I have another final drive on the shelf, that lost a pinion bearing also, the flakes even screwed up the gears, so the only good part is the case.

[Oklahoma_Valk]

I recently went through the same Final Drive rebuild. i didnt have the guts to try a wing-press out though. I just went with new HDL parts. $500 of new.



-okie

[GOOSE]

what we need here is to have Smokin Joe go to south carolina, and take the needed pictures that everyone will want to see.......HE DOES A REAL PROFFESSIONAL JOB AT THIS.  then we can check out all aspects of this job.  Just my 2-cents worth.  Thanks Joe for all your other great pictures too, John.

[hubcapsc]

Stage one: the wing final drive arrived today. I daubed some of the goo out of a few of the splines,
they look sharp  



I got the drive shaft, too... it's not the same as ours...  

-Mike

[Ricky-D]

So the job now is to press out the worn spline from the Valkyrie ring gear and replace it with the used spline you will secure from the Goldwing ring gear.

Hope it goes well for you.

***

[Disco]

Mike, did you also get the driven flange that was mated to your 'wing final drive?

[hubcapsc]

Mike, did you also get the driven flange that was mated to your 'wing final drive?

Nope. But since there's no visible wear on the splines, I'm going to mate it to a flange that
also looks good.

I have this used pinion cup I plan to use on another final drive I've got that has a bad
pinion cup.



-Mike

[Smokinjoe-VRCCDS#0005]

Mike, did you also get the driven flange that was mated to your 'wing final drive?

Nope. But since there's no visible wear on the splines, I'm going to mate it to a flange that
also looks good.

I have this used pinion cup I plan to use on another final drive I've got that has a bad
pinion cup.



-Mike

Thanks for the pictures ....Keep'em coming as you move forward with this 

[hubcapsc]

Thanks for the pictures ....Keep'em coming as you move forward with this

Well...

It came apart easily enough, the bearing feels good, but doesn't want to come off easily...



But the sharp end profile of the splines fooled me... here's a good look at what I have...



Good splines look like this...



one or two missteps like this and it would be better to just buy a
new ring gear for $250...  

I reckon I'll give it another try, anyhow... maybe I can find a good wing final at
the local trike place I visited a year or so ago... hope they're still in bidness...

-Mike

[Oklahoma_Valk]

That bearing is a doozie, i know. Sorry to hear about the bad splines. Those wing splines are not as bad as most that I have seen. I would be willing to bet that you could find a 'wing ringgear SOMEWHERE for a decent price. There are thousands of triked wings on the road. Aftermarketly triked.

Speaking from experience:

Be very careful with that seal that seats around the ring gear on the final drive. (the one in your last picture above)

I poked it wrong w a screwdriver and ended up having to tear the whole blasted rear end back apart and order new seal from HDL. If I were doing it again, Id just order a new seal to begin with. Also, the little brass collar that the 'elusive 3rd o-ring' sits on, is pressed in. Order a new one from HDL. It will be much easier than trying to get that old one out. i promise. It is part number #14 on the schematic of the valk final drive.

Ps. My new ring gear and drive flange sure were pretty. Pretty expensive, but pretty awzome. But hey, if you can save a buck, do it.

Also think about replacing the wheel dampers. Made a great difference for me.

Wanna see bad splines?
here's a link to my recent rebuild:

http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,47765.0.html

-Safe winds,

Okie

[hubcapsc]

Wanna see bad splines?
here's a link to my recent rebuild:

You were 10 minutes from walking!

Thanks for the tip about the oring holder and the seal...

-Mike

[Oklahoma_Valk]

You aint kidding man. That was right after a 500mile trip (which included several foolish/awesome burnouts) to bikes blues & BBQ in fayettville.

[Grumpy]

Sorry to see you got one with bad splines. Personally, I go to bike salvage yards to find mine, too chancy to purchase online. I found one at a local yard that had the shock mount tab broken, checked it and bought it for $25.  One note, when pressing the splines in and out, place a plate of aluminum, or brass between the ram and the spline, saves damaging the splines. As to the bearing, the spline can be pressed out with the bearing still on it, will make removing it a lot simpler.

[hubcapsc]

OK... the adventure continues... I went over to the local trike shop, and got two
1500 wing final drives with good splines, I think good pinion cups, and also got a
good flange.

Me and the trike shop owner are about equally blind. He had a bunch of flanges.
As we went through them, trying to clean and check them, squinting all the way,
we discovered we could tell right away if they had wear by running his little
flat-head screwdriver along the edge of a few of the splines. The ones with
wear would go "click" as the screw-driver blade went across the stair-step on
the worn spline's edge.

I cleaned and visually inspected the one that passed the click test, it looks good.
He has a bunch more flanges with just a tiny bit of wear. He said he'd look around
for some more good ones, he has a lot of stuff and has been building trikes long
enough that he has twenty or more 1500 wing final drives...

-Mike

[hubcapsc]

Cleaned up the flange and took the ring gear out of one of the final drives...





-Mike

[Oklahoma_Valk]

Very nice!! Keep the pics coming. Many will find this info useful someday!

-Okie

[hubcapsc]

The splines in the second wing ring gear seem like maybe they were starting to get shiny on
the wear side, but I guess I'll go with it... ?



I'm going to go take a Valkyrie final drive apart now  

-Mike

[Ricky-D]

The picture in post #30 seems to show a bit of wear, maybe 20% or so.

If you were to use this spline in conjunction with a new drive flange I think initially, they would match up pretty quickly.

But then settle in, and give many years of good service as long as you service them regularly, whether you use a time period or miles on the bike.

I've got the new ring gear and drive flange on my bike and have yet to inspect them.

I did the work the beginning of spring and am very anxious to see how they look.

I used ALMAGUARD 3752 a general purpose lubricant made by LUBRICATION ENGINEERS in Fort worth, Texas.

It is a very good grease, highly rated. Very old too! Prolly bought it 20 years ago!

***

[hubcapsc]

Well, dang... that part was easy 

I took the ring gear out of the final drive that was on my bike when I got it:



I bet it would have rolled along for thousands of more miles with proper maintenance, but five
years ago it was easy to pick up an unworn Valkyrie final drive for $250 or so, and that's what I
did then...

Anyhow... I took the valkyrie ring gear with the worn splines and one of the wing ring gears with
good splines down to the NAPA place. It stays open till noon on Saturday, and the guy who runs
the shop is there. He pressed out the splines from both and put the good splines in the Valkyrie
ring gear, on the spot, while I waited, for $15. And pressed off the big bearing from the worn
splines, it seems good and is the same for both Valkyrie and Goldwing.



Grumpy: he had all kinds of brass parts and stuff that he protected the work with while
he was using the press, a really nice looking air-driven press, he seems to be a top notch
shop guy. He has helped me in the past getting stuck pistons out of calipers...

Oklahoma_Valk: The brass insert where the 3rd Oring goes is the same part number. It stayed
with the wing splines, so I don't have to replace it. I guess I'll still order a new seal, not sure yet.

This looks nice now  wing final drive $75, shop bill $15, it hasn't been free, but it has
been fun and better than a new ring gear, $241.29. Plus, a new ring gear comes with that other
gear that the pinion cup bolts to... that other gear is hard to replace, I'll just be leaving the old
one in, it is mated to the ring gear I am using... I don't know whether that is good or bad, but I
am glad to avoid disassembling the guts of the final drive all the way.



I've checked some other part numbers to see what is the same... the little chrome breather cap is
the same, but I can never get the old ones off without tearing them up, they're only $5.50...

The "collar", that removable spacer tube that the axle runs through, is the same part number.
"The same part number" doesn't always mean "exactly the same" I guess...





Oh yeah... I can't see the difference between the goldwing ring gear and the valkyrie ring gear.
I slipped the goldwing ring gear into the valkyrie final drive, and it dragged as I tried to spin it,
they are almost the same, but not "functionally equivalent"...

-Mike

[Ricky-D]

Since you've removed the ring gear and disturbed the case and all that I would suggest to replace the oil seal.

Cheap insurance!

***

[hubcapsc]

I would suggest to replace the oil seal.

If I didn't replace it, and it leaked, I'd feel like a dope  ...

I plan to repaint the case, and put this final drive on my bike when I change the back
tire next time... using it will be the only way to know it is really good.

-Mike

[Oklahoma_Valk]

Man, this is too kewl!!

Definitely order an oil seal. Just in case!

Feeling like a dope sucks. Believe me. Hahaha.

So what is your plan for a wheel flange? Are you replacing it too?

Awesome write up!

[hubcapsc]

So what is your plan for a wheel flange? Are you replacing it too?

When I changed my rear tire in July, my flange and final drive splines looked like this:





I hope they pretty much look like that on the next tire, in 2 or 3 thousand miles. If you look hard,
you can see they're not perfect, I'll keep them together. I have a new flange, and the one I got the
other day from the trike guy... I'll put them with the final drives I'm putting wing splines into I guess.

-Mike

[Oklahoma_Valk]

OK ok. I forget that you're building a spare. Very nice! those pretty splines are a sight that only valkyrie riders can understand. Keep up the good work!

-Okie

[hubcapsc]

I just ordered three vent caps and three seals (#32)... The final drive I'm "rebuilding" now is
the one that was on my bike when I got it five years ago. I robbed the pinion cup off of it
long ago.

Check out Oring #35. I don't remember it. I don't have it.



The Oring is also shown on page 12-12 in the manual.

I just looked at all three final drives I have here, I can't see an Oring in any of them. I can see what looks
like an Oring groove in all of them, it looks like you'd have to take that lock tab (#12) off to remove or install
an Oring in the groove I see. I've never touched #12, or the pinion cups on the other final drives.

Any ideas? Anyone know for sure they have the Oring?

-Mike

[Smokinjoe-VRCCDS#0005]

I just ordered three vent caps and three seals (#32)... The final drive I'm "rebuilding" now is
the one that was on my bike when I got it five years ago. I robbed the pinion cup off of it
long ago.

Check out Oring #35. I don't remember it. I don't have it.



The Oring is also shown on page 12-12 in the manual.

I just looked at all three final drives I have here, I can't see an Oring in any of them. I can see what looks
like an Oring groove in all of them, it looks like you'd have to take that lock tab (#12) off to remove or install
an Oring in the groove I see. I've never touched #12, or the pinion cups on the other final drives.

Any ideas? Anyone know for sure they have the Oring?

-Mike

I'm about 90 % sure that # 17 is what broke in my beautiful final drive I bought years ago and after installing and a 35 mile ride I heard a noise .....When I got home I pulled the drain plug and alittle less than half of it was stuck to the drain plug magnet....How easy is # 17 to get to Mike ?


Great write up and pictures in this thread