front axle pinch bolts question

[Firefighter]

Put the front end back on my 2000 IS today. Have done this procedure quite a few times. Following the manual, before tightening the right axle pinch bolts, ( with the front brake applied, pump the fork up and down several times to seat the axle). What exactly does that do? How is the axle seated or adjusted?

I can't pump my heavy bike much, so I usually start the engine and roll the bike forward and apply the front brake a few times, but don't really understand what I am doing.  Thanks for your info.  Firefighter

[Chrisj CMA]

Its supposes to center the axle in the fork lowers.  I have to admit, I skip that step most of the time as I don't think it really does anything either.

[Attic Rat]

If you watch it when you pump the front end up and down you can see the right fork leg move in and out to center itself.

[Cracker Jack]

Review this old post for the how and why. The meat is in my reply # 17.

http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,45929.0.html

[Rio Wil]

You might find this an interesting read on setting the position of the left fork/axle relationship....works great.

http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,58071.0.html

[Hook#3287]

The first time I replaced a tire on my bike back in 2000, I created the tic, tic, tic of what I thought was the the rotor rivets hitting the brake pads.

I then removed the wheel and followed the manuals procedure for re-install and solved the problem.

The bonce seems to be important, I do it every time and have never recreated the ticking.

[Firefighter]

A lot of info that I didn't see in my search. I failed to insert the axle completely flush one time also. Had the clicking noise, reread the manual and found the problem. Thanks for responses.. Firefighter

[Chrisj CMA]

The first time I replaced a tire on my bike back in 2000, I created the tic, tic, tic of what I thought was the the rotor rivets hitting the brake pads.

I then removed the wheel and followed the manuals procedure for re-install and solved the problem.

The bonce seems to be important, I do it every time and have never recreated the ticking.

You created the tic tic tic by not getting the axle in all the way the first time, the bounce has nothing to do with that tic tic tic

[Hook#3287]

The first time I replaced a tire on my bike back in 2000, I created the tic, tic, tic of what I thought was the the rotor rivets hitting the brake pads.

I then removed the wheel and followed the manuals procedure for re-install and solved the problem.

The bonce seems to be important, I do it every time and have never recreated the ticking.

You created the tic tic tic by not getting the axle in all the way the first time, the bounce has nothing to do with that tic tic tic

Seeing as it was 15 years ago, I'm lucky I can even remember it happened, never mind why.

My point being, when installing the front wheel, I follow the manuals procedure and have no issues.

Well, no issues with the front tire install, anyways.

[indybobm]

If the axle bolt has been tightened before tightening the right fork pinch bolts, the tic-tic-tic is almost always caused by the left fork being mis-positioned on the axle. The axle is always 'pushed in' as far as possible. Until the left fork pinch bolts are tightened, the left fork is floating on the axle. It can be pulled toward or away from the wheel. When the axle bolt is tightened, the right fork is captured in the axle-speedo-spacer-bearing-spacer-right fork-axle bolt assembly and cannot 'move' no matter how much you bounce the forks. The Honda manual is wrong about installing the front wheel with the brake applied. It is the left fork that you loosen and that moves when you bounce the forks with front brake applied. This 'centers' the left caliper over the rotor. Shop Talk should be updated to show the correct procedure.

[Chrisj CMA]

If the axle bolt has been tightened before tightening the right fork pinch bolts, the tic-tic-tic is almost always caused by the left fork being mis-positioned on the axle. The axle is always 'pushed in' as far as possible. Until the left fork pinch bolts are tightened, the left fork is floating on the axle. It can be pulled toward or away from the wheel. When the axle bolt is tightened, the right fork is captured in the axle-speedo-spacer-bearing-spacer-right fork-axle bolt assembly and cannot 'move' no matter how much you bounce the forks. The Honda manual is wrong about installing the front wheel. It is the left fork that you loosen and that moves when you bounce the forks. This 'centers' the left caliper over the rotor. Shop Talk should be updated to show the correct procedure.

I agree with your explanation, that was a more technical way of saying if the left fork and axle are not correct i.e. the axle not in all the way there will be problems.  You have to watch for the left fork wanting to wander away from the axle head effectively creating the same thing as the axle not in all the way.  As long as you start with the left fork and axle correct the rest will fall into place

[RonW]

I'm pretty sure it's not only me, but which side fork bolts gets tightened *last* ?

Per manual, the right fork's pinch bolts are tightened last, but as was explained, once the axle bolt is tightened down, the right end of the axle shaft is not able to move laterally inside its barrel in the right fork, so leaving the right fork's pinch bolts loosened won't do nothing when bouncing the front end of the bike *to seat the axle*.

Thusly instead it should be that the left fork's pinch bolts get tightened last contrary to the manual. But then if you tighten the left fork's pinch bolts last & since the left fork's pinch bolts are loose and not clasping the axle at that end, the left end of the axle shaft may walk sideways instead of remaining flush with the outside of the left fork, when bouncing the front end of the bike to seat the axle. See Chrisj CMA's post above.

Here the manual makes sense in that the end of the axle that is free to move sideways even with the axle bolt tightened, that end of the axle shaft should be clamped in place to prevent it from shifting out of place when bouncing the forks. Left end of the axle shaft, in this instance. So a coin toss heads or tails?

[indybobm]

This is only my opinion but I believe it is correct. I do believe that the Honda Service Manual is wrong!
Once you tighten the axle bolt on the right side, the right fork cannot move when you bounce the forks.

Here is what I do:

1. Assemble the front wheel assembly with the axle through the forks, speedo, spacers as per the manual.
2. Push the axle in far as it will go. Do not tighten the right pinch bolts yet.
3. Install the brake calipers.
4. Tightened the left pinch bolts to keep the axle from turning when you torque the axle bolt.
5. Put anti-seize on the axle bolt threads, install and tighten axle bolt to torque specification.
6. Torque the right pinch bolts.
7. Loosen the left pinch bolts.
8. At this point the left fork will be able to move back and forth across the axle, You want to move the left fork until the left brake caliper is centered over the left rotor. You can do this visually, or get on the bike, apply the front brakes and pump the forks. This will center the caliper over the rotor.
9. Torque the left pinch bolts to spec.

If you do not want the tighten the left pinch bolts in step 4, you can use an allen wrench in the axle to keep it from turning when you torque the axle bolt. I prefer to tighten the left pinch bolts.

[Hook#3287]

This is only my opinion but I believe it is correct. I do believe that the Honda Service Manual is wrong!

indybobm, your procedure does sound logical, doing it that way should produce no misalliances.

But, I've had the front wheel off, then on, a Valk, over 2 dozen times and have followed the manual without problems, except the first time when I didn't follow the book.

Maybe I've been lucky, but maybe also, the trick is making sure the left side is seated correctly before tightening anything.

[indybobm]

This is only my opinion but I believe it is correct. I do believe that the Honda Service Manual is wrong!

indybobm, your procedure does sound logical, doing it that way should produce no misalliances.

But, I've had the front wheel off, then on, a Valk, over 2 dozen times and have followed the manual without problems, except the first time when I didn't follow the book.

Maybe I've been lucky, but maybe also, the trick is making sure the left side is seated correctly before tightening anything.

I think the key is terminology. The axle does not seat against anything in the left fork. The big end of the axle on the left side is free to move completely through the left fork.
Instead of saying 'seated' we should say 'positioned correctly'.

[Hook#3287]

This is only my opinion but I believe it is correct. I do believe that the Honda Service Manual is wrong!

indybobm, your procedure does sound logical, doing it that way should produce no misalliances.

But, I've had the front wheel off, then on, a Valk, over 2 dozen times and have followed the manual without problems, except the first time when I didn't follow the book.

Maybe I've been lucky, but maybe also, the trick is making sure the left side is seated correctly before tightening anything.

I think the key is terminology. The axle does not seat against anything in the left fork. The big end of the axle on the left side is free to move completely through the left fork.
Instead of saying 'seated' we should say 'positioned correctly'.

I concur, sometimes terminology and I ain't even in the same room.

[Firefighter]

I always use the book to do any repairs, but sometimes I read over a step too fast and not understand completely what is important. When I positioned my axle wrong  (that One time, years ago), I read to install the axle flush top to bottom, but did not realize that the axle has to be exactly flush. When the clicking noise began I did not know what was wrong. I found the rivets touching the end of the brake caliper bolt, thought the bolt was too long until I compared them, then thought it through what needed to be adjusted to remedy the problem. Once I moved the axle further in, I realized what flush means and have never had that problem again.  Firefighter