Loose Shift Lever

[greggh]

1998 Standard 110,000 miles.
Shift lever is loose.  Where the shift rod enters into the Engine case.
Is there a fix and how would I fix this issue.
Makes it extremely hard to find Neutral and get the green Neutral light to come on..

Discussed with Attic Rat, he says the shift rod being loose will cause this and I want to know of others who may have had this issue and how they fixed the Problem.

Please advise.
Thank you.
Greggh

[Chrisj CMA]

Try movind the lever on its splines one tooth up or down.  This won't fix the perceived looseness, but it might help you findind neutral.

The loose shift lever is probably just a normal thing

[PharmBoy]

Here is a lingthly discussion of that problem with the solution being on page 2.  After studying Fisch's solution, I built my own version which is pictured later on down the page.  It solved my problem and I am very satisfied with my results.  Someone posted a much easier method later.  Maybe someone can bring this solution to the board.
http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,74563.40.html

[Tfrank59]

I think you're saying it's the shifting shaft, not really the lever (attached to the shaft) that's loose?  If so, this is discussed in multiple threads on this forum, and at this point you basically have to live with it.  At least that's what I understand.  There is a double row needle bearing that supports the shifting shaft, just inside the oil seal (which will leak if there's enough slop in the shaft), and the only real fix is to get into the transmission and replace both the worn shifting shaft as well as the two needle bearings (major undertaking, to say the least).  One real deficiency with Honda's design here (and this motor don't have many!) is the support for the shifting shaft inside the transmission housing is too short.  If the shaft had been made longer internally (don't see how they'd have done it with its current configuration), then there could have been bearing support farther apart, supporting a longer (internal) shaft on both ends, to help offset the heavy side load produced by the rather long external shift lever that's needed to clear the exhaust.  Honda's answer to the heavy side load was to put a double row of needle bearings, but evidently it's not sufficient to keep things tight over time.  Let's face it, we shift something like maybe average of 20 times in a single mile of riding!  Multiply that by say 50K miles and you end up with a worn and perhaps sloppy shifting shaft, due mainly to the extended length shifter these motors require.

So this post is getting long.  Basically the fix that's in the works (and there are a few that have been completed--search for "shifter support bracket" or something) is to build a support bracket that attaches to the crash bar mount with some sort of knuckle that will swivel with the shifter rotation.  One gentleman is in the process, I believe, of developing such a bracket, and many Valk riders (myself included) have expressed their intent to purchase it once it's available.  So that's pretty much where that's at.  I have once replaced my oil seal--at around 35K--when it began leaking slightly, and it hasn't been leaking since (I'm now at 45K), but as I periodically check my shifting shaft play, I can see it's getting worse.  And I don't stomp on my shifter by any means.  I don't baby it--guys will tell you that's a bad idea--but I don't slam it into gear either.  I try to give her what she needs, just like any lady wants to be treated  Good luck.

[DK]

I did the "simple" pivot mod about 3 months ago.

My Valk is low mileage (25,000) and did not have all that much slop. However, to upshift smoothly and not "clunk" the tranny, it required hard preloading the shifter; finding neutral was often problematic; and downshifts were clunky even with a throttle blip - I could get ok shifts most of the time with a lot of effort but finding neutral was often a mystery.

Since installing the pivot, I can hit neutral just about every time and know I'm there from the feeling of my foot without looking at the neutral light; upshifts are more click&nick; downshifting is clunkless if you do it quickly and sequentially with rpm & speed and I'm sure that the minimized wear and damage to the tranny is as great as the added convenience an pleasure of better shifts.

The pivot fix is consistent with Tfrank59's excellent explanation of the design flaw of the internal shifter shaft and the lengthy, and dogleged shifter lever in that the pivot fix effectively adds a third and wider point of support in addition to the two closely spaced internal needle bearings.

For $15.00 and an hour of your time you'll not be disappointed.

Dan

[MarkT]

I fixed it on my high mileage Valk Standard while installing BBT forward controls.  Anchored the end of the shifter shaft with a Heim joint.  Also used 2 more Heim joints on the BBT shifter linkage and a spring to help reset the internal linkage.  Put a video on youtube on the mod:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltgVugCRfFg

[The emperor has no clothes]

I think you're saying it's the shifting shaft, not really the lever (attached to the shaft) that's loose?  If so, this is discussed in multiple threads on this forum, and at this point you basically have to live with it.  At least that's what I understand.  There is a double row needle bearing that supports the shifting shaft, just inside the oil seal (which will leak if there's enough slop in the shaft), and the only real fix is to get into the transmission and replace both the worn shifting shaft as well as the two needle bearings (major undertaking, to say the least).  One real deficiency with Honda's design here (and this motor don't have many!) is the support for the shifting shaft inside the transmission housing is too short.  If the shaft had been made longer internally (don't see how they'd have done it with its current configuration), then there could have been bearing support farther apart, supporting a longer (internal) shaft on both ends, to help offset the heavy side load produced by the rather long external shift lever that's needed to clear the exhaust.  Honda's answer to the heavy side load was to put a double row of needle bearings, but evidently it's not sufficient to keep things tight over time.  Let's face it, we shift something like maybe average of 20 times in a single mile of riding!  Multiply that by say 50K miles and you end up with a worn and perhaps sloppy shifting shaft, due mainly to the extended length shifter these motors require.

So this post is getting long.  Basically the fix that's in the works (and there are a few that have been completed--search for "shifter support bracket" or something) is to build a support bracket that attaches to the crash bar mount with some sort of knuckle that will swivel with the shifter rotation.  One gentleman is in the process, I believe, of developing such a bracket, and many Valk riders (myself included) have expressed their intent to purchase it once it's available.  So that's pretty much where that's at.  I have once replaced my oil seal--at around 35K--when it began leaking slightly, and it hasn't been leaking since (I'm now at 45K), but as I periodically check my shifting shaft play, I can see it's getting worse.  And I don't stomp on my shifter by any means.  I don't baby it--guys will tell you that's a bad idea--but I don't slam it into gear either.  I try to give her what she needs, just like any lady wants to be treated  Good luck.

If you are referring to Fisch, I think he just designed one and made one for himself. I don't think he is going to sell them. Aampro made one pretty simply also. I think PharmBoy's looks the best though. 

[Tfrank59]

I was actually referring to the support bracket Peppilepew is working on...http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,74563.0.html   In this thread you can see how many of us want that thing once it's ready.

[The emperor has no clothes]

I was actually referring to the support bracket Peppilepew is working on...http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,74563.0.html   In this thread you can see how many of us want that thing once it's ready.

oh, yeah. I forgot about him. 

[greggh]

Is there a setup that n i can buy that someone has created.
I don't have the ability to manufacture this kind of setup.
Txt me or call me here.
402 990 8863
Gregg

[DK]

Is there a setup that n i can buy that someone has created.
I don't have the ability to manufacture this kind of setup.
Txt me or call me here.
402 990 8863
Gregg

Gregg,

The "simple" pivot - the last one in the thread does not require any manufacturing other than drilling one hole in the shift lever.

The post specifies the precise parts needed together with the source to purchase them. Cost of parts is about $15.00. The post clearly tells you how to do it and is well illustrated with pictures.

It's less complicated than cooking a good breakfast. If you need telephone support or any questions feel free to call me at 501-541-0046.

Dan

[Bone]

The "simple" pivot - the last one in the thread

Help I can't find this maybe to early ?

[Fazer]

Search for "Simple to construct shifter pivot" and it should come right up.  I am getting ready to do this myself.  I bought the parts from McMaster Carr as shown in the thread, but be prepared for about $12 of shipping.

[DK]

Search for "Simple to construct shifter pivot" and it should come right up.  I am getting ready to do this myself.  I bought the parts from McMaster Carr as shown in the thread, but be prepared for about $12 of shipping.

Don't be concerned if your first delivery from McMaster - Carr does not contain everything you ordered.
Mine arrived promptly, but it was three separate deliveries from different locations. - The $12.00 shipping charge was justified in my case.

Be sure to get the the longer bolt for the rear crashbar. The original w8X90 ill be too short will engage 3 or 4 threads which is not enough. You will need an 8X95 or so to engage the threads.

Dan

[Bone]

Search for "Simple to construct shifter pivot" and it should come right up

Thanks found it with your help.

[Fazer]

Assembled and installed mine last night, but I had binding to the point that it would not work.  I will try and alleviate some of the binding next time I get the urge to mess with it.  It also did not appear to alleviate the lateral movement of the shaft coming out of the engine.  Again, maybe if I can get the binding solved, that problem will also be solved. 

I can't see why a simple brace running from the crash bar with a pin inserted into the splined shifer piece would not work.  I tried that also, but was not able to easily shift.  Will give it another try.  Maybe my pieces were not lining up correctly.  seems simple.

[Tfrank59]

Assembled and installed mine last night, but I had binding to the point that it would not work.  I will try and alleviate some of the binding next time I get the urge to mess with it.  It also did not appear to alleviate the lateral movement of the shaft coming out of the engine.  Again, maybe if I can get the binding solved, that problem will also be solved. 

I can't see why a simple brace running from the crash bar with a pin inserted into the splined shifer piece would not work.  I tried that also, but was not able to easily shift.  Will give it another try.  Maybe my pieces were not lining up correctly.  seems simple.

It's a rather tricky articulation – the shift lever movement – in that it swings on its own specific radius, which of course must be calculated and accounted for in any pivot support one might build.

[DK]

Assembled and installed mine last night, but I had binding to the point that it would not work.  I will try and alleviate some of the binding next time I get the urge to mess with it.  It also did not appear to alleviate the lateral movement of the shaft coming out of the engine.  Again, maybe if I can get the binding solved, that problem will also be solved. 

I can't see why a simple brace running from the crash bar with a pin inserted into the splined shifer piece would not work.  I tried that also, but was not able to easily shift.  Will give it another try.  Maybe my pieces were not lining up correctly.  seems simple.

Bone,

Try slightly loosening the long bolt going thru the crash bar to the engine & then operate the shifter a few times to let it find a happy position & then tighten the bolt.

Another possibility causing it to bind is the lateral alignment - you may need to add or remove washers  in order to keep the assembly straight and moving without any friction caused by the assembly trying to "bend" when everything is tightened .

Dan

[DK]

greggh,

See private message.

Dan