Attention NY landlords

[DirtyDan]

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/de-blasio-pitches-plan-to-seize-private-property-of-problem-landlords-opponents-cry-communism

Dan

And more De-Blasio news

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/de-blasio-says-moderates-never-learned-lessons-of-2016-urges-bold-liberal-agenda

[Oss]

Difukingblasio has spent well over 13 MIllion dollars on half a dozen free to tenant lawyer groups  (Legal Aid Legal Services NAICA Boom and others) whose job is to stall cases and defeat landlords

In Bronx County most cases are what is called Non Payment  The tenant just didnt pay the rent  These buildings are often owned and occupied by the Landlord often a senior citizen, who is paying (or trying to pay) a mortgage the crazy heat and water bills (tenant gets free water and heat) and other expenses just like you and me

It can take 4 months or more to get a Warrant to the Marshal and then a judge can sign what are called OSC each one giving free month at a time to tenant   This is denial of due process and it is an unconstitutional taking in the "name" of preventing homelessness

I call bull$hit this is making Landlords lose their sanity and their homes for tenants who are already on public assistance and driving Lexus and Mercedes and who have big screen tv while Landlord eats alpo for dinner being owed 10-20k each time.

Public assistance rent programs are crack for landlords  I tell my clients dont take it. Sell the multi family house buy a 1 family and get your life back  

Holdovers are worse as NYC and NYS will have a program inspect and offer your basement as an apt then after you take the tenant fine you 25k for renting then tell you that because the tenant has a
(illegal) lease you cant evict.  I know I just had a judge named Garland vacate a Judgment 3 months after I got the warrant. We had to pay the tenant, who had a free lawyer to move before the fines got so high the house would be lost

He is also destroying what is left of the school system, the police and
free enterprise as socialist is too mild a term to describe him

He is also forcing trials in Housing Court to be held 7 blocks away from the courthouse to put small firms like my solo firm out of business.   He could have taken a giant room and made 2 trial parts and conference part and that was the plan before he changed his mind.

Are there slum lords?  The worst is NYC Housing Authority a DiBlasio agency.  Google it but like democrats everywhere their own $hit cant possibly stink
Yeah he is scum I agree Dan

[Patrick]

That mayor is beyond crazy, I find it hard that he was elected. But, it is NYC. 

[Alberta Patriot]

Liberals helping Deadbeats game the system. That is just great for them right up until there is no rental space left, because landlords have all cashed in their chips and moved to a red state. The new owners bulldoze those entire neighborhoods and turn them into upscale condos. What don't these liberal social engineers get about the "unintended" consequences of assisting deadbeats avoid personal responsibility.  

[Serk]

We were landlords on a single house for a few years when we moved to our current one, and that was one of the biggest PITA's I've ever dealt with, even worse than owning a boat; and that was in a mostly free state, I can't imagine the nightmare of trying to be a landlord in a slave state...

It's almost as if they're intentionally trying to get land owners to "voluntarily" walk away and let the state take the property for non-payment of taxes and fines/fees so then the government can become the landlord over everyone.

Insane.

But Who Is John Galt?

[Patrick]

My family had rental property  and that went fairly well back then, once in awhile there would be an issue but it was resolved quickly most of the time. I tried it and it was a nightmare, but, it was a different time. It was the start of this new age way of treating tenants. I don't do that anymore and have no intentions of ever starting it up again.

[Savago]

... the crazy heat and water bills (tenant gets free water and heat) and other expenses just like you and me...

Free water + heat?
 

Not even commie-fornia does that!

[Serk]

... the crazy heat and water bills (tenant gets free water and heat) and other expenses just like you and me...

Free water + heat?
 

Not even commie-fornia does that!

Just like The Cloud doesn't exist, it's just "Somebody Else's Computer" things like "Free Utilities" don't exist, it's just somebody else's expense, but...

https://www.forrent.com/find/CA/metro-Los+Angeles/Los+Angeles/extras-Utilities+Included

[Savago]

... the crazy heat and water bills (tenant gets free water and heat) and other expenses just like you and me...

Free water + heat?
 

Not even commie-fornia does that!

Just like The Cloud doesn't exist, it's just "Somebody Else's Computer" things like "Free Utilities" don't exist, it's just somebody else's expense, but...

https://www.forrent.com/find/CA/metro-Los+Angeles/Los+Angeles/extras-Utilities+Included

Agreed!

In case of 'cloud computing', your data is the payment.
 

[Serk]

In case of 'cloud computing', your data is the payment.
 

It depends, if you're actually paying for it that's one thing (AWS, Azure, etc), but if you're receiving a service and not paying for it, you're the product being sold, not the customer...

But that's another tangent... 

[da prez]

  I (we) will never own rental property again. We are finally making a little profit , but for how long.
 Our property is taken care of and updated as needed.

      Any one want to buy offices and apartments.

                                            da prez

[¿spoom]

...It's almost as if they're intentionally trying to get land owners to "voluntarily" walk away and let the state take the property for non-payment of taxes and fines/fees so then the government can become the landlord over everyone...

No almost about it. All Hail the State. Central planning will save us. I feel so bad for NYC peeps, though there's tons of other places where private landlords are getting screwed. Tons of "private developers" getting huge subsidies to build new housing and some or all of it must have subsidized residents. Taxpayers are paying to build them and then paying people to live in them. My fiancé and her partner own 70-something units, purchased over the last 20-30 years one by one. I've learned so much about the game that if I got involved with it, eventually I would end up with a life sentence, because WI doesn't have the death penalty.  

[G-Man]

For tax collection purposes, they evaluate properties as having high value, but then they don't allow you to collect enough rent to pay the mortgage and the imposed taxes. 

[G-Man]

... the crazy heat and water bills (tenant gets free water and heat) and other expenses just like you and me...

Free water + heat?
 

Not even commie-fornia does that!

In NYC you pay for water coming in AND going out!  Most newer multi dwelling homes have separate furnaces and hot water heaters for each dwelling.  Not mine of course.

I had to fix something in one of the apartments and they were wearing t-shirts and shorts in the middle of the winter and it was very warm in the apt.  We had a lucite cover over the thermostat, and the cover had a flat area on top that someone placed a frozen item wrapped in foil on top of.  Made the thermostat think the apartment was always cold so the furnace just kept cranking out the heat.  Got a new shaped cover so that couldn't happen again.

I wish I could remove the thermostat from the apartments and just leave an inconspicuous sensor somehwere that can't be tampered with.  I'd like to be able to set the controls of the thermostat without even going in the apt, but allow the sensor in the apt. to turn the utilities on and off.  I did see a "landlord" thermostat that allows the tenant to bump up the heat a couple of degrees for a predetermined amount of heat, then it goes back to it's "normal" setting,  Looking into this and several other ideas.

Also thinking about selling and investing the equity in something else, but, except for 2008 and a blip here and there, real estate has been the place to put money if you want it to really grow with minimal risk.  NY doesn't like that.

[Serk]

I did see a "landlord" thermostat that allows the tenant to bump up the heat a couple of degrees for a predetermined amount of heat, then it goes back to it's "normal" setting,  Looking into this and several other ideas.

It doesn't have the local "You can change it a smidge" setting, but check out the Sensi thermostat from Emerson. They're around $100 for the older model (Which is what I have).

As long as they can connected to WiFi, you can lock the local thermostat out entirely, and then control the temperature from your phone, tablet, or a website.

It also has a nice automatic mode, you set a temperature range, and it will use the heater or the AC as necessary to keep the temperature within whatever range you set.

[old2soon]

            LONG time ago in Lake and Cook County Illinois I did evictions. I worked for a moving company that had "won" the contract. By the time the movers showed up ALL legal wranglin was over. All we were required to do was put the peoples stuff on the sidewalk closest to the street. Sometimes we needed disposebal paper coveralls and cheap gloves-and occasionally a gas mask. Some of the buildings or apartments looked like a bomb had gone off inside. After doing evictions for 2 years I vowed to NEVER own rental property. I've kept that vow. Seems as like the renters have way more "rights" then the Landlords do. Glad I reside where I do. RIDE SAFE.

[Oss]

G-man  our 1st basmt apt in Yonkers had one of those locking lucite covers on the thermostat
and the Landlady set it at 60 so I put frozen peas on top of it as we were really cold.

As soon as heat would come on she would be knocking on the door wearing her coat

We moved out as soon as we could  to a great apt in Eastchester, then bought our house here because it was cheaper then to pay a mortgage than the rent the Landlord wanted.

I have found living well is the best revenge

Oss

Missed you at poker last night -  I won big

[hubcapsc]

I just read a story about New York and landlords and the new democrats... It made me think of this thread from last month...

“Landlords have had their run of the playground, and we’re taking it back,” said New York Assemblywoman Linda Rosenthal, a Democrat.

-Mike "good luck G-man..."

[G-Man]

So-far, So-good.   But it did take some time and aggravation to get here.

We have a 4 apartment (legal 2) house we rent.  My Bro-in-law is in one apt. and his sis-in-law is in the basement.  Having family there is a huge plus because they all are our eyes.  The other 2 apts are rented to some nice people that pay on time with minimal complaints.  If we ran it like a business it would do much better, but with family there, we're not collecting big bucks, but it completely pays for itself and helps with college tuition.

But, that could change at any time.  A tenant could move out and we'd have to find another good one, which are few and far in between because tenants feel entitled here in NY.  As you can tell by the above posts.

[old2soon]

          Sounds like ta me anywho nyc IS getting a gubmint big nuff to take away EVERYTHING you have.   So WHEN-Not IF-but WHEN all the wage earners and tax payers iz gone WHO gonna pay da freight?   Yeah-kinda what I wuz thinkin!   RIDE SAFE.

[Jess from VA]

Also thinking about selling and investing the equity in something else, but, except for 2008 and a blip here and there, real estate has been the place to put money if you want it to really grow with minimal risk.  NY doesn't like that.

With (trustworthy) family and handpicked tenants in the building, it sounds like minimal risk.

Other than that, the risk (and worry) sounds huge, and you'd be better off to just shoot your own foot and be done with it.  Or sell right away.

Nothing could make me a landlord.  I don't have the temperament, patience or forgiveness in me.

I shared premises with my best friends in college (out of poverty), and those friends let me down every time.  I should have just lived with the cockroaches alone.  They didn't eat much, never left the lights on and were just generally more reliable.   

[dinosnake]

Oh boo hoo, the usual conservative whiners complaining when the government trys ANYTHING to make people's lives better.

I have an apartment.  The entire building hasn't had cooking gas for THREE YEARS AND 3 MONTHS.  The landlord, as all too often here, is really a wanna-be slumlord and pretty much ignored repairs for as long as possible.  The city has been in court, suing him, since July 2016, so I was told from a city housing inspector who came by [our] request.  Some repairs only started about 4 months ago but still no gas - the gas company suspended all gas accounts years ago as they, themselves, said that they foresaw no need for the gas account for a long time and would reactivate at some future time as required.  Although rent is $1800+ a month, we were offered a "generous" 5% discount for the inconvenience of not being able to cook in our own home.

We refused the deal, of course.

So we never renewed our lease but continue to pay the full amount, on time.

At least the heat is good (we lost it for 5 days when they first shut the building's gas down).  The downstairs storefronts play with the thermostat, hiking it to the moon - I should call the super again and let him know so he can turn the heat DOWN.  It wastes far too much energy.

...

So you people just continue to whine about your 'freedom!', as you so often do.  You're not here, even the corporate landlords are wanna-be slumlords and ignore necessary repairs but hike rents through the roof (currently $40-$60 per square foot with a 20% or more "loss factor", known because we are moving our office (again!) to avoid the 20% rent increase for a new lease at our current location).

[Serk]

So we never renewed our lease but continue to pay the full amount, on time.

Don't like the situation, then move.... Sheesh, is it really that complicated? 

[dinosnake]

So we never renewed our lease but continue to pay the full amount, on time.

Don't like the situation, then move.... Sheesh, is it really that complicated? 

Try it buddy.  Rents in this town are stated, by all the major newspapers, as being a current average of $3,200 a month.

On the other side of the country, my friend in SF earns a 6-figure income.  He pays $3,000 a month for a 2-bedroom (I'm on a one bedroom) and he can't move because HE CAN'T AFFORD IT.  At $3,000 a month he is in a RENT STABILIZED apartment and the current market rate is $5,000 a month - out of his budget.

So when you talk about things not happening in your area, first learn about WHY they are happening and not just spout off as an expert.

[DirtyDan]

What town would that be ?

3000 a month

Rent ?

Dan

[Serk]

So we never renewed our lease but continue to pay the full amount, on time.

Don't like the situation, then move.... Sheesh, is it really that complicated?  

Try it buddy.  Rents in this town are stated, by all the major newspapers, as being a current average of $3,200 a month.

On the other side of the country, my friend in SF earns a 6-figure income.  He pays $3,000 a month for a 2-bedroom (I'm on a one bedroom) and he can't move because HE CAN'T AFFORD IT.  At $3,000 a month he is in a RENT STABILIZED apartment and the current market rate is $5,000 a month - out of his budget.

So when you talk about things not happening in your area, first learn about WHY they are happening and not just spout off as an expert.

Then vote with your wallet and move... I stand by my earlier statement.

---Edit to add
My MORTGAGE payment to OWN a 3,600 square foot 4 bedroom house on 1/4 acre corner lot is $2200 a month. If you're paying those exorbitant rates, don't blame the lack of government, blame too much government and/or your unwillingness to leave and put your money elsewhere.

[Jess from VA]

There can always be two sides to landlord tenant trouble.

Rotten landlords and premises should not be tolerated by tenants.

But abusive practices allowing a 85/15% spit in obligations, tenants to landlords is unfair by any comparison, and forcing landlords to carry nonpaying tenants who trash and destroy the property for months on end with no remedy, no right to forcibly evict and throw them on the street (after fair notice of 30 days), is pure BS.   

[dinosnake]

What town would that be ?

3000 a month

Rent ?

Dan

Several, now.  And as I've said, that's nothing in San Francisco where rents are now $5k a month.

And then the older generations wonder *why* the Millennials are so pessimistic, and do what they do.  Rents in major cities are now $1600 to $5000 a month, plus utilities, but many jobs still want to underpay, especially for younger employees.  Young woman, a current customer, wants out of her current job and out of (our) industry.  She is currently completely responsible for running a brand for the owners, from marketing to arranging photo shoots and social media, to coordinating production to shipping and trade shows.  The current employer treats her like slave (speaking of slave: one of my co-workers just quit Friday after working 16 years, taking on *many* new skills and more responsibilities, with NEVER a pay increase.  16 years!!  Finally had enough, quit, even if it means Uber driving instead for a while).

Anyway, she went on a job interview last week.  3 hours she said, was going along great.  Then they asked for pay.  She told them what she is being paid now.

He told her 'We work here for the love of it' and offered $24,000.  She pays $16,000 a year in rent alone.  They told her after 2 or 3 years she may get up to a good level.

Welcome to modern America.  Retirees don't know what they left for the rest of us.

[dinosnake]

So we never renewed our lease but continue to pay the full amount, on time.

Don't like the situation, then move.... Sheesh, is it really that complicated?  

Try it buddy.  Rents in this town are stated, by all the major newspapers, as being a current average of $3,200 a month.

On the other side of the country, my friend in SF earns a 6-figure income.  He pays $3,000 a month for a 2-bedroom (I'm on a one bedroom) and he can't move because HE CAN'T AFFORD IT.  At $3,000 a month he is in a RENT STABILIZED apartment and the current market rate is $5,000 a month - out of his budget.

So when you talk about things not happening in your area, first learn about WHY they are happening and not just spout off as an expert.

Then vote with your wallet and move... I stand by my earlier statement.

---Edit to add
My MORTGAGE payment to OWN a 3,600 square foot 4 bedroom house on 1/4 acre corner lot is $2200 a month. If you're paying those exorbitant rates, don't blame the lack of government, blame too much government and/or your unwillingness to leave and put your money elsewhere.

As I implied, since I've been here a while rents are even more than I'm paying now.  But here $1800 is considered rather cheap, if you can come up with what the other landlords want for me to move, I'll happily accept your donation

[Robert]

What town would that be ?

3000 a month

Rent ?

Dan

Several, now.  And as I've said, that's nothing in San Francisco where rents are now $5k a month.

And then the older generations wonder *why* the Millennials are so pessimistic, and do what they do.  Rents in major cities are now $1600 to $5000 a month, plus utilities, but many jobs still want to underpay, especially for younger employees.  Young woman, a current customer, wants out of her current job and out of (our) industry.  She is currently completely responsible for running a brand for the owners, from marketing to arranging photo shoots and social media, to coordinating production to shipping and trade shows.  The current employer treats her like slave (speaking of slave: one of my co-workers just quit Friday after working 16 years, taking on *many* new skills and more responsibilities, with NEVER a pay increase.  16 years!!  Finally had enough, quit, even if it means Uber driving instead for a while).

Anyway, she went on a job interview last week.  3 hours she said, was going along great.  Then they asked for pay.  She told them what she is being paid now.

He told her 'We work here for the love of it' and offered $24,000.  She pays $16,000 a year in rent alone.  They told her after 2 or 3 years she may get up to a good level.

Welcome to modern America.  Retirees don't know what they left for the rest of us.

Interesting perspective Dino but the reality is you are in a place where the dot com and tech companies all hire from. Washington state, San Fransisco, all the areas that the wealthy kids can afford to pay astronomical rents because they are paid astronomical salaries. That is not due to retirees nor conservatives. That along with NAPA Valley and people moving into that area to capitalize on this trend is the problem.

Also include the movie industry with all the support industries and there you have it.

Many companies pay higher salaries in the areas of higher cost, seems unfair to me but thats the way it works. 

Actually with the tech bubble leveling out a bit and companies realizing that more talent is available are not paying what they used to. I in my life never would have imagined working in an office like Google or some of the other tech giants offices.

When hired out of school or young, each company will pay way above the salary in that field just to get the cream of the crop. Well a few years down the road this cream has turned rancid and companies will not pay what they did in the beginning. So now its the younger that are crying and having to put up with the same pay and practices that many have suffered with for years. Many ill equipped for the reality of being used and passed over since they have been spoon fed and allowed to think they are the best thing since sliced bread.

I know many who have served a company faithfully for years even paid into pension plans only to have the projected amount of retirement cut and some let go for younger kids willing to work for less.

Welcome to the real world of business.

You make a high salary you had better produce, plain and simple.

As for rents and housing costs, supply vs demand. No more land in San Fran and demand is high so costs go up. That could change soon with so many moving out of California and San Fran becoming a modern day hell hole.

Even here in Florida I see much of the same thing happening. Now who is complaining?

If you rent you want to get paid, if you are a slum lord then you should be brought up to standards. The fact you accept a place that you cannot cook in is on you, there are always alternatives.

Most I know like your friend work for someone like that till they can make a company for themselves. IF you know all the steps and have been doing it for long enough to have the contacts then go it alone. But alas its the same story many dont have the backbone to do this.

[Oss]

Math makes you scratch your head  how kids make do today
My daughter lives in Manhattan with her husband and 9 month old daughter (our miracle gbaby)  She and her husband can walk to work saving the cost of owning 2 cars insurance and parking and other costs probably saves her 2000 a month  plus
If she lived in the suburbs there is the cost of train pass which is over 200 a month per person on top of the cost of the cars etc
She is not in a rent stabilized apt and for the 1 bedroom pays over 3000 a month, they are looking for a 2br which would be close to 4000 a month
Even if they could afford a house the loss of 10 hrs a week each to commuting plus cant deduct all mortgage and taxes makes more sense to stay where they are
She and another mother split the cost of a nanny to watch the kids while they work.  Dont forget the cost of child care in your calculations
It is not easy being a working mom or dad and living in a big city but the salary you can get is greater than someone without skills can get

Life is different now, Bonnie and I bought this house and paid less monthly than rent would have been but this house has gone up in value 5X since then

[dinosnake]

Interesting perspective Dino but the reality is you are in a place where the dot com and tech companies all hire from. Washington state, San Fransisco, all the areas that the wealthy kids can afford to pay astronomical rents because they are paid astronomical salaries. That is not due to retirees nor conservatives.

Well it's certainly not the KIDS charging one another $5,000 a month in rent!!  Who did you think OWNS those buildings, twenty-somethings?

The truth hurts, even if you don't want to admit it to yourselves.  The young people are in NO position to make *any* rules.  Yet somehow they're getting blamed for failure when the rules break *them*..

And, in case you are wondering, pay in SF scales TO the cost of living, not the other way around.  Unless it also happens to break the general rules of economics, as well.

That along with NAPA Valley and people moving into that area to capitalize on this trend is the problem.

Not any more they're not.  Catch Amazon's new (split) headquarters?  Thunk they did that out of some altruistic idea, let's spred our wealth around?  Nope, costs are so high over there that they're trying to reduce them by doing a 'soft' relocation.

Also include the movie industry with all the support industries and there you have it.

Many companies pay higher salaries in the areas of higher cost, seems unfair to me but thats the way it works. 

And that the 'cost of living' thing.  But the lie is that companies are generally doing that: they only pay more when they must, regardless of cost of living pressures.  Remember that stagnant American wage thing??

Uh-huh.  Don't forget it out of convenience.

Ok, sorry, out of time right now, gotta go!

[G-Man]

So we never renewed our lease but continue to pay the full amount, on time.

Don't like the situation, then move.... Sheesh, is it really that complicated? 

He'd rather complain and bitch about us, who have nothing to do with his situation in any way, shape, or form.

Very progressive and liberal of him, ain't it?   

I'm surprised he didn't blame President Trump.

[G-Man]

So we never renewed our lease but continue to pay the full amount, on time.

Don't like the situation, then move.... Sheesh, is it really that complicated?  

Try it buddy.  Rents in this town are stated, by all the major newspapers, as being a current average of $3,200 a month.

On the other side of the country, my friend in SF earns a 6-figure income.  He pays $3,000 a month for a 2-bedroom (I'm on a one bedroom) and he can't move because HE CAN'T AFFORD IT.  At $3,000 a month he is in a RENT STABILIZED apartment and the current market rate is $5,000 a month - out of his budget.

So when you talk about things not happening in your area, first learn about WHY they are happening and not just spout off as an expert.

Then vote with your wallet and move... I stand by my earlier statement.

---Edit to add
My MORTGAGE payment to OWN a 3,600 square foot 4 bedroom house on 1/4 acre corner lot is $2200 a month. If you're paying those exorbitant rates, don't blame the lack of government, blame too much government and/or your unwillingness to leave and put your money elsewhere.

As I implied, since I've been here a while rents are even more than I'm paying now.  But here $1800 is considered rather cheap, if you can come up with what the other landlords want for me to move, I'll happily accept your donation

My 2 non-family tenants are nice people.  One pays $1450 for a 3 bedroom/1bath and the other pays $1000 for a one bedroom.  We haven't raised rents for 10 years because we are so happy and don't want to rock the boat.  Yes, we are terrible business people, but great landlords.

My brother-in-law lost his house and $30K+ investment because of a non-paying tenants who the courts decided could stay and not pay ANY rent until further notice.  Pete couldn't afford to make the mortgage on his and his wife's salary so they sold for a loss to avoid further losses.  Two people who tried to invest in their and their children's futures but it was all taken away at a loss by gov't.

Dino, you're pretty incredible.  You enter in the middle, try to spin things around so that we're all bad guys because we try to invest in our families futures and when we complain that gov't is interfering with our abilities to get ahead, you try to belittle or shame us.

Shame on YOU.  Shame on you for taking the side of gov't over the people who are the earners and investors who pay the taxes and provide the jobs and dwellings to people that look to take advantage at every turn and the gov't who supports them.

[Serk]

Shame on you for taking the side of gov't over the people who are the earners and investors who pay the taxes and provide the jobs and dwellings to people that look to take advantage at every turn and the gov't who supports them.

Who is John Galt?

[dinosnake]

Math makes you scratch your head  how kids make do today
My daughter lives in Manhattan with her husband and 9 month old daughter (our miracle gbaby)  She and her husband can walk to work saving the cost of owning 2 cars insurance and parking and other costs probably saves her 2000 a month  plus
If she lived in the suburbs there is the cost of train pass which is over 200 a month per person on top of the cost of the cars etc
She is not in a rent stabilized apt and for the 1 bedroom pays over 3000 a month, they are looking for a 2br which would be close to 4000 a month
Even if they could afford a house the loss of 10 hrs a week each to commuting plus cant deduct all mortgage and taxes makes more sense to stay where they are
She and another mother split the cost of a nanny to watch the kids while they work.  Dont forget the cost of child care in your calculations
It is not easy being a working mom or dad and living in a big city but the salary you can get is greater than someone without skills can get

Life is different now, Bonnie and I bought this house and paid less monthly than rent would have been but this house has gone up in value 5X since then

THIS.  1000 times this.  There is so much time say but where to begin?

This board is mostly filed with the older generation, who are personally well established in their lives.  They have friends of their *own* generation and, after spending a lifetime raising children, when they do talk to anyone younger they speak TO them, not WITH them.  They wonder why people aren't doing what they themselves did 40 years ago, because it worked for them so it most certainly should do the same now.

In frank terms: they're out of touch with today's reality.  Their lives allow that luxury.

40+ years ago you graduated high school and could find an entry-level job.  Or enter into a trade and start at a low, but still OK, base pay to increase later.  Or go on to college and, upon graduating, expect to get a job at somewhat better than average pay, all while expecting to have low, moderate, or if you planned well/were lucky, no substantial student debt.

NOW, however, you need a college degree just to get a job that, hopefully, MEETS current cost of living (unless you get computer tech or [greedy] banking/finance.  Starting lawyers get paid well but should considering they are now expected to pull 80-100 hour weeks for the first several years (and I know all this how?  Lots of communication.))  All while paying for college that costs, for private college, a standard year's earning per year tuition; public college now costs about the average yearly rent (outside of a city, that is).  And remember: 'public' means 'socialism', so who knows how long that public college will continue to get funding.

A few years ago the known, better grade department store (begins with a 'B', puts on Christmas shows) put out ads for floor sales people.  Their requirements?   2 year college degree.  For a floor walker.

You want more, 100% true stories from The Front Lines?

Remember that co-worker I told you of that just quit?  Here's his story.  He was hired 16 years ago as a general worker but over the years acquired, and was trained for, more advanced skills in our trade.  He now does some of the skilled tradesman work, plus does his own work on the side of restoring and repairing his personal cars (newer plus 2 old Fox Mustangs) up to and including tranny and engine swaps plus partial rebuilds, utilizing his father-in-laws commercial garage.

So he has skills.

An ex-coworker told him about a job offer in her place for a maintenance worker.  Not exactly what he was hoping for but any job in a storm, right?  They asked for his resume.

"For a maintenance worker?", I thought.  They had a list of skill requirements and knowledge, he pretty much met them all, but needed help for building the resume.  So I did it for him.

He went to the interview.  Along with the mentioned skills, at this time they also mentioned the fact that he would be responsible for 8 to 9 people beneath him - a manager in anything but the name.

And the compensation offered for this?

Current state minimum wage.

...

Said father-in-law has offered up a job in said garage, he certainly has proven skills.  He just doesn't know if he wants that as a lifestyle yet, but it remains an option.

[Gavin_Sons]

Math makes you scratch your head  how kids make do today
My daughter lives in Manhattan with her husband and 9 month old daughter (our miracle gbaby)  She and her husband can walk to work saving the cost of owning 2 cars insurance and parking and other costs probably saves her 2000 a month  plus
If she lived in the suburbs there is the cost of train pass which is over 200 a month per person on top of the cost of the cars etc
She is not in a rent stabilized apt and for the 1 bedroom pays over 3000 a month, they are looking for a 2br which would be close to 4000 a month
Even if they could afford a house the loss of 10 hrs a week each to commuting plus cant deduct all mortgage and taxes makes more sense to stay where they are
She and another mother split the cost of a nanny to watch the kids while they work.  Dont forget the cost of child care in your calculations
It is not easy being a working mom or dad and living in a big city but the salary you can get is greater than someone without skills can get

Life is different now, Bonnie and I bought this house and paid less monthly than rent would have been but this house has gone up in value 5X since then

THIS.  1000 times this.  There is so much time say but where to begin?

This board is mostly filed with the older generation, who are personally well established in their lives.  They have friends of their *own* generation and, after spending a lifetime raising children, when they do talk to anyone younger they speak TO them, not WITH them.  They wonder why people aren't doing what they themselves did 40 years ago, because it worked for them so it most certainly should do the same now.

In frank terms: they're out of touch with today's reality.  Their lives allow that luxury.

40+ years ago you graduated high school and could find an entry-level job.  Or enter into a trade and start at a low, but still OK, base pay to increase later.  Or go on to college and, upon graduating, expect to get a job at somewhat better than average pay, all while expecting to have low, moderate, or if you planned well/were lucky, no substantial student debt.

NOW, however, you need a college degree just to get a job that, hopefully, MEETS current cost of living (unless you get computer tech or [greedy] banking/finance.  Starting lawyers get paid well but should considering they are now expected to pull 80-100 hour weeks for the first several years (and I know all this how?  Lots of communication.)

A few years ago the known, better grade department store (begins with a 'B', puts on Christmas shows) put out ads for floor sales people.  Their requirements?  2 year college degree.  For a floor walker.

You want more, 100% true stories from The Front Lines?

Remember that co-worker I told you of that just quit?  Here's his story.  He was hired 16 years ago as a general worker but over the years acquired, and was trained for, more advanced skills in our trade.  He now does some of the skilled tradesman work, plus does his own work on the side of restoring and repairing his personal cars (newer plus 2 old Fox Mustangs) up to and including tranny and engine swaps plus partial rebuilds, utilizing his father-in-laws commercial garage.

So he has skills.

An ex-coworker told him about a job offer in her place for a maintenance worker.  Not exactly what he was hoping for but any job in a storm, right?  They asked for his resume.

"For a maintenance worker?", I thought.  They had a list of skill requirements and knowledge, he pretty much met them all, but needed help for building the resume.  So I did it for him.

He went to the interview.  Along with the mentioned skills, at this time they also mentioned the fact that he would be responsible for 8 to 9 people beneath him - a manager in anything but the name.

And the compensation offered for this?

Current state minimum wage.
...

Said father-in-law has offered up a job in said garage, he certainly has proven skills.  He just doesn't know if he wants that aa lifestyle yet, but it remains an option.

You are very wrong in your first paragraph.  I have many friends much older than myself.  I am 33 and have good friends in their 60's and 70's. I have never felt like they speak at me and not with me.

[dinosnake]

[quYou are very wrong in your first paragraph.  I have many friends much older than myself.  I am 33 and have good friends in their 60's and 70's. I have never felt like they speak at me and not with me.

Indeed.  I had many personal customers, much, much older than myself, who I considered like friends and they always spoke to me as equals.  But, then again, I was the technician doing practically 'magic' things with black boxes, way past their personal experience level.

But most people have people that they consider true "friends", are mostly closer to their own age.  We all do this.  However I'm married to someone 18 years younger, and therefore the vast majority of people in my life are much younger than I.  Lots and lots of tales of woe, let me tell you.  Add in my own experiences around here and you get to see how truly broken things have become, and that 'evil government!' thing is still other PEOPLE doing things for their own benefits regardless of how much hurt it might bring...to other people.

And then the Millennials get flack, being in a broken system that they did NOT create.  Given flack by some of the most entitled people who live, pulling no punches.  They expect everything to work for THEM, damn everyone else.  The dictionary definition of entitlement.

[9Ball]

It’s obviously everyone else’s fault. It sounds like you’ve given up and want to paint a broad brush against people that have worked all their lives to get what they currently own.

Time to stop the blame and do something, or anything, to improve your situation.

Nobody gave me anything.  I must be privileged.

[..]

It’s obviously everyone else’s fault.

You beat me to it.