New Zealand mosque shootings

[DirtyDan]

https://www.yahoo.com/gma/multiple-dead-reported-shooting-attack-zealand-mosque-024735764--abc-news-topstories.html

Dan

[f6john]

A lot of hate brewing in the world. I think it may be that way for a long while. Humans have a habit of establishing what they deem as right and appropriate and when they come up against an opposing view they are ready for a fight.

I’m reminded of something my Dad told me long ago. Be wary of a coward, because they will hurt you. Someone who will go toe to toe with you may come out on top but a coward will blindside you. While these guys, and others like them are wanting change and bringing attention to their “cause” they are perfect examples of a coward.

[Serk]

 

[Ken aka Oil Burner]

In retrospect, I decided to remove my previous post. Please don't think that the admin here did it; I did.

[old2soon]

         I was just trying to imagine how I'd feel if this happened at the Church I attend with friends I've made over the last 20+ years or so. And I've decided I do NOT want to imagine such a scenario. In fact the thought chills my blood. So Prayers up for the Horror those people have been put thru in New Zealand.  And as an aside I Will Continue to carry anytime I step out my front door. RIDE SAFE.

[Alberta Patriot]

Where is the outage over the ethnic cleansing of Christains in every country in the Middle East.
Lebanon was a Christian Majority Country...until they invited in Muslims as a good faith jesture....now look at it....again, where is the outage
Yahoo, CNN, MSNBC, etc.... it's news only when Muslims are attacked

[Serk]

"Hello brother"



https://www.foxnews.com/world/new-zealand-shooting-victims-courageous-last-2-words-to-gunman-go-viral

[DirtyDan]

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2019/03/14/report-good-guy-gun-chased-shot-new-zealand-attackers/

Dan

[Willow]

"Hello brother"



https://www.foxnews.com/world/new-zealand-shooting-victims-courageous-last-2-words-to-gunman-go-viral

That writing has no small amount of slant and likely a fair amount bullshit.  It was wrong what the gunman did but "religion of peace"?   Really?

[Serk]

"Hello brother"



https://www.foxnews.com/world/new-zealand-shooting-victims-courageous-last-2-words-to-gunman-go-viral

That writing has no small amount of slant and likely a fair amount bullshit.  It was wrong what the gunman did but "religion of peace"?   Really?

As you know I'm no fan of religion in general, and even so I would much rather live in a Christian based society than an Islamic based one, but I can respect the act of peace made by his first victim in his last moments, if for nothing else then to remove the spotlight off the shooter and put it on his victims.

(I also think it would have been far better if his first victim has been armed and ended the situation right then and there, but that's a different issue.)

[Willow]

As you know I'm no fan of religion in general, and even so I would much rather live in a Christian based society than an Islamic based one, but I can respect the act of peace made by his first victim in his last moments, if for nothing else then to remove the spotlight off the shooter and put it on his victims.

(I also think it would have been far better if his first victim has been armed and ended the situation right then and there, but that's a different issue.) 

He was a greeter at the door.  I didn't see the video but I'm sure it is how he greeted everyone entering.  I don't think he realized at his greeting that the man was about to kill him.

What was done was wrong, very wrong.  Let's not go out of our way to make heroes of the victims.

[Serk]

As you know I'm no fan of religion in general, and even so I would much rather live in a Christian based society than an Islamic based one, but I can respect the act of peace made by his first victim in his last moments, if for nothing else then to remove the spotlight off the shooter and put it on his victims.

(I also think it would have been far better if his first victim has been armed and ended the situation right then and there, but that's a different issue.) 

He was a greeter at the door.  I didn't see the video but I'm sure it is how he greeted everyone entering.  I don't think he realized at his greeting that the man was about to kill him.

What was done was wrong, very wrong.  Let's not go out of our way to make heroes of the victims.

I have seen the video. Unless he was blind he knew something very very bad was about to happen as he uttered his greeting with a shotgun leveled at him.

I do agree, in general the victims were victims, not necessarily heroes (Except the one that tried to stop the attacker by trying to fight back, and apparently the one(s) that ended the attack at the second Mosque by producing firearms of their own (Not verified))

I also agree this was a most heinous act on multiple levels.

[¿spoom]

As you know I'm no fan of religion in general, and even so I would much rather live in a Christian based society than an Islamic based one, but I can respect the act of peace made by his first victim in his last moments, if for nothing else then to remove the spotlight off the shooter and put it on his victims.

(I also think it would have been far better if his first victim has been armed and ended the situation right then and there, but that's a different issue.) 

He was a greeter at the door.  I didn't see the video but I'm sure it is how he greeted everyone entering.  I don't think he realized at his greeting that the man was about to kill him.

What was done was wrong, very wrong.  Let's not go out of our way to make heroes of the victims.

Agreed, and "hello brother" is an excellent greeting for one of any religion to use, especially when confronted by anger. One never knows if humanizing themselves to an attacker that may have dehumanized you in his/her head could save your life. Personally I'd try and use that split second to access a IWB or shoulder carry, the only way I'd be dressed if I were to enter a sanctuary of any religion. I have know way of knowing the hearts and minds of those killed, so unless anyone can prove to me differently, the shooting was a terrible thing.

[Dave Ritsema]

Did all these white terrorists read the same pamphlet or something?

Judging by the comments I'm sure there's people on this forum who are thrilled this happened.

Was going to post something else but it's far beneath me to respond to some middle aged idiots who never made it past high school but somehow have all this knowledge of the world and its affairs  

Seems like your painting alot of the people in this forum with a pretty broad brush there Brother. I am not sure what's beneath you but it would appear your already there.

[Jess from VA]

The thing is, we don't get a lot of New Zealand news.  But I have not read any accounts of bad things happening in New Zealand like in Paris, London or other places, by bad Muslims.  I can't recall reading anything at all like that from NZ. 

[Moonshot_1]

Did all these white terrorists read the same pamphlet or something?

Judging by the comments I'm sure there's people on this forum who are thrilled this happened.

Was going to post something else but it's far beneath me to respond to some middle aged idiots who never made it past high school but somehow have all this knowledge of the world and its affairs  

There can be nothing but absolute condemnation of the acts committed at the Mosque in NZ.

Such vile hatred cannot be condemned enough. Your post is just spewing vile hatred of many who you do not know. You have achieved condemnation

[old2soon]

The thing is, we don't get a lot of New Zealand news.  But I have not read any accounts of bad things happening in New Zealand like in Paris, London or other places, by bad Muslims.  I can't recall reading anything at all like that from NZ. 

             According to what I've read and what I heard on the T V "news" the Muslims have been in New Zealand for 150 years. Far as mass atrocities in N Z go-this is the first I've heard of too. This is Well PAST heinous. RIDE SAFE.

[Kaahn]

Deleted. My apologies, a poor response to a poor comment. Thanks for the humbling replies

[scooperhsd]

I don't care what religion / background of the victims shot in a church - it's a damn shame when it happens period. We can only hope that the perpertrators get justice.

[Willow]

For what it's worth, the shootings may have had little to do with religion (Islam).  In the news stories the shootist is described as a white supremacist dissatisfied with the non-white immigrations  to New Zealand.  The mosques were gatherings concentrated by such in his mind.  New Zealand, I understand, is largely areligious.

People who choose to kill others in mass are wrong and doing evil.


 

[¿spoom]

For what it's worth, the shootings may have had little to do with religion (Islam).  In the news stories the shootist is described as a white supremacist dissatisfied with the non-white immigrations  to New Zealand.  The mosques were gatherings concentrated by such in his mind.  New Zealand, I understand, is largely areligious.

People who choose to kill others in mass are wrong and doing evil.


 

And of course, the jerk had to praise Trump, so to not let a good tragedy go to waste, there have been Moslem leaders from NZ and elsewhere ragging on trump about how his actions helped cause this, etc. Snuggle all of 'em. Don't know about NZ, but a customer from Australia many years ago said there was friction with the Moslems there. Seems they were always judging everybody according to their faith and demanding exceptions from some laws. Didn't go over well with laid back Aussies. Hopefully, our own Leathel from NZ will be able to enlighten us some on the general state of relations there.

[Skinhead]

Deleted. My apologies, a poor response to a poor comment. Thanks for the humbling replies

I for one accept your apology, but may I suggest that in the future, you get to know the people you are insulting before you insult them, you had no idea who you were talking about.

[Dave Ritsema]

Deleted. My apologies, a poor response to a poor comment. Thanks for the humbling replies

I for one accept your apology, but may I suggest that in the future, you get to know the people you are insulting before you insult them, you had no idea who you were talking about.

+1 

[Leathel]

I have not posted yet as my anger to those involved in the training of and supporting this Austrailian nutter, Christchurch has a bit of history from these pro white nutters but they have never been a threat, the main shooter...possibly only actual shooter was Australian (Brenton Tarrant )  had come to NZ to train with the nutters and had planned to take it back to Ausi but attacked here instead.


My son did some online searching and found posts are dark sites from him that should have had him and the group red flagged..... a 5 minute search, How the Fuk does the intelligence not pick that up.

 We have no Muslim issue her as far as I am concerned and they are very a very peaceful group here.... The only people that do have an issue with them are the nutters..... and yes those nutters spout pro trump BS ...... he has even manage to separate/alienate/aggregate  some on the other side of the world.... Nutters looking for any ounce of support admittedly..... but it is happening all the same

The last big shooting ...... they are not common, Aromoana was our biggest back in the 90's with 13 dead (not counting war time events) .... 7 mass shooting since the 50's with 5-7 dead

   A couple of mates went looking for news of it all and found the live footage Brenton streamed on Youtube as he attacked .... he posted it live as he went, removed soon after but not nice to see

[The emperor has no clothes]

I have not posted yet as my anger to those involved in the training of and supporting this Austrailian nutter, Christchurch has a bit of history from these pro white nutters but they have never been a threat, the main shooter...possibly only actual shooter was Australian (Brenton Tarrant )  had come to NZ to train with the nutters and had planned to take it back to Ausi but attacked here instead.


My son did some online searching and found posts are dark sites from him that should have had him and the group red flagged..... a 5 minute search, How the Fuk does the intelligence not pick that up.

 We have no Muslim issue her as far as I am concerned and they are very a very peaceful group here.... The only people that do have an issue with them are the nutters..... and yes those nutters spout pro trump BS ...... he has even manage to separate/alienate/aggregate  some on the other side of the world.... Nutters looking for any ounce of support admittedly..... but it is happening all the same

The last big shooting ...... they are not common, Aromoana was our biggest back in the 90's with 13 dead (not counting war time events) .... 7 mass shooting since the 50's with 5-7 dead

   A couple of mates went looking for news of it all and found the live footage Brenton streamed on Youtube as he attacked .... he posted it live as he went, removed soon after but not nice to see

My condolences to you and your countrymen.  Sadly we here have become accustomed to these things.

[Willow]

...  Sadly we here have become accustomed to these things.

No, we haven't.  These events are very rare but certainly given much air by the media.  We are certainly  not accustomed to them.  There are about five million people in New Zealand.  By proportion to its people the incidents listed are not any less than has happened in the U S of A.

I don't know if condolence is the right word but you, the people of New Zealand, certainly have our sympathies.

[Bighead]

I have not posted yet as my anger to those involved in the training of and supporting this Austrailian nutter, Christchurch has a bit of history from these pro white nutters but they have never been a threat, the main shooter...possibly only actual shooter was Australian (Brenton Tarrant )  had come to NZ to train with the nutters and had planned to take it back to Ausi but attacked here instead.


My son did some online searching and found posts are dark sites from him that should have had him and the group red flagged..... a 5 minute search, How the Fuk does the intelligence not pick that up.

 We have no Muslim issue her as far as I am concerned and they are very a very peaceful group here.... The only people that do have an issue with them are the nutters..... and yes those nutters spout pro trump BS ...... he has even manage to separate/alienate/aggregate  some on the other side of the world.... Nutters looking for any ounce of support admittedly..... but it is happening all the same

The last big shooting ...... they are not common, Aromoana was our biggest back in the 90's with 13 dead (not counting war time events) .... 7 mass shooting since the 50's with 5-7 dead

   A couple of mates went looking for news of it all and found the live footage Brenton streamed on Youtube as he attacked .... he posted it live as he went, removed soon after but not nice to see

My condolences to you and your countrymen.  Sadly we here have become accustomed to these things.

Spoken like a true Lib. You are accustomed to this?

[f6john]

Deleted. My apologies, a poor response to a poor comment. Thanks for the humbling replies

In response, I have deleted my post where I quoted your now deleted post, a wise decision and I thank you for it.

[signart]

I have not posted yet as my anger to those involved in the training of and supporting this Austrailian nutter, Christchurch has a bit of history from these pro white nutters but they have never been a threat, the main shooter...possibly only actual shooter was Australian (Brenton Tarrant )  had come to NZ to train with the nutters and had planned to take it back to Ausi but attacked here instead.


My son did some online searching and found posts are dark sites from him that should have had him and the group red flagged..... a 5 minute search, How the Fuk does the intelligence not pick that up.

 We have no Muslim issue her as far as I am concerned and they are very a very peaceful group here.... The only people that do have an issue with them are the nutters..... and yes those nutters spout pro trump BS ...... he has even manage to separate/alienate/aggregate  some on the other side of the world.... Nutters looking for any ounce of support admittedly..... but it is happening all the same

The last big shooting ...... they are not common, Aromoana was our biggest back in the 90's with 13 dead (not counting war time events) .... 7 mass shooting since the 50's with 5-7 dead

   A couple of mates went looking for news of it all and found the live footage Brenton streamed on Youtube as he attacked .... he posted it live as he went, removed soon after but not nice to see

My condolences to you and your countrymen.  Sadly we here have become accustomed to these things.

Spoken like a true Lib. You are accustomed to this?

We're more accustomed to airplanes full of people being hijacked and flown into skyscrapers full of people just trying to make a living.

[Skinhead]

...  Sadly we here have become accustomed to these things.

No, we haven't.  These events are very rare but certainly given much air by the media.  We are certainly  not accustomed to them.  There are about five million people in New Zealand.  By proportion to its people the incidents listed are not any less than has happened in the U S of A.

I don't know if condolence is the right word but you, the people of New Zealand, certainly have our sympathies.

+1

[¿spoom]

I have not posted yet as my anger to those involved in the training of and supporting this Austrailian nutter, Christchurch has a bit of history from these pro white nutters but they have never been a threat, the main shooter...possibly only actual shooter was Australian (Brenton Tarrant )  had come to NZ to train with the nutters and had planned to take it back to Ausi but attacked here instead.


My son did some online searching and found posts are dark sites from him that should have had him and the group red flagged..... a 5 minute search, How the Fuk does the intelligence not pick that up.

 We have no Muslim issue her as far as I am concerned and they are very a very peaceful group here.... The only people that do have an issue with them are the nutters..... and yes those nutters spout pro trump BS ...... he has even manage to separate/alienate/aggregate  some on the other side of the world.... Nutters looking for any ounce of support admittedly..... but it is happening all the same

The last big shooting ...... they are not common, Aromoana was our biggest back in the 90's with 13 dead (not counting war time events) .... 7 mass shooting since the 50's with 5-7 dead

   A couple of mates went looking for news of it all and found the live footage Brenton streamed on Youtube as he attacked .... he posted it live as he went, removed soon after but not nice to see

Thanks for sharing that 

[gordonv]

People who choose to kill others in mass are wrong and doing evil.

Prayers offered up.

Whether it was this shooting, or Egyptians killing Christians in Egypt, it's wrong.

[baldo]

Spoken like a true Lib. You are accustomed to this?

You just can't help it, can you?

[The emperor has no clothes]

...  Sadly we here have become accustomed to these things.

No, we haven't.  These events are very rare but certainly given much air by the media.  We are certainly  not accustomed to them.  There are about five million people in New Zealand.  By proportion to its people the incidents listed are not any less than has happened in the U S of A.

I don't know if condolence is the right word but you, the people of New Zealand, certainly have our sympathies.

1. adjective
If you are accustomed to something, you know it so well or have experienced it so often that it seems natural, unsurprising, or easy to deal with.


proportion : the relationship of one thing to another in terms of quantity, size, or number; ratio.
"the proportion of examination to coursework"
synonyms:   ratio, distribution, relative amount/number; relationship
"the proportion of water to alcohol"



There is a difference between the 2 words my linguistic friend. Thus, a different sentiment than what you implied. 

[Gavin_Sons]

...  Sadly we here have become accustomed to these things.

No, we haven't.  These events are very rare but certainly given much air by the media.  We are certainly  not accustomed to them.  There are about five million people in New Zealand.  By proportion to its people the incidents listed are not any less than has happened in the U S of A.

I don't know if condolence is the right word but you, the people of New Zealand, certainly have our sympathies.

1. adjective
If you are accustomed to something, you know it so well or have experienced it so often that it seems natural, unsurprising, or easy to deal with.


proportion : the relationship of one thing to another in terms of quantity, size, or number; ratio.
"the proportion of examination to coursework"
synonyms:   ratio, distribution, relative amount/number; relationship
"the proportion of water to alcohol"



There is a difference between the 2 words my linguistic friend. Thus, a different sentiment than what you implied. 

How is this kind of thing easy for you to deal with? Are you saying that just because a few crazies each year commit these sort of acts you have become accustomed to it happening? If so you need some help. How can anyone become accustomed to this sort of violence? Just because you are numb about it does not mean everyone else is. Please don't  ever say we have become accustomed to this. Next time just say you have become accustomed to this. You don't know what everyone else is feeling. Maybe next time you will think before you rattle off your keyboard. Doubt it though.

[Skinhead]

There were 2 posts in this thread where totally inappropriate generalizations/statements were made about this group.  I believe it is the result of the constant assault on individual thought and constant media indoctrination/political correctness.  We are a group of individuals, we share many of the same values/opinions, but we are free to have our own even if it is different, I thing some people can't deal with individuality, unless we are all the same.  Kind of like Harley riders.  << This last statement is an example of what I'm talking about.

[Willow]

...
There is a difference between the 2 words my linguistic friend. Thus, a different sentiment than what you implied. 

Actually not.  I'm sorry you were unable to grasp what was said. 

The percentage of evil people and thus evil events is actually higher in NZ.

If we (Americans) were accustomed to these events then there would be no point in the media presenting them as shocking news.

I'm usually not subtle enough to imply.   

[bscrive]

...  Sadly we here have become accustomed to these things.

No, we haven't.  These events are very rare but certainly given much air by the media.  We are certainly  not accustomed to them.  There are about five million people in New Zealand.  By proportion to its people the incidents listed are not any less than has happened in the U S of A.

I don't know if condolence is the right word but you, the people of New Zealand, certainly have our sympathies.

Willow, you must only be talking about mosque shootings, because there has been 42 mass shootings in the US so far this year alone.  Far from being rare.

The first number are injured and second number is killed

March 3, 2019   California   Oakland   316 14th St   4   0   

March 3, 2019   Illinois   Chicago   2900 block of E 79th St   6   0   

March 2, 2019   Arkansas   Pine Bluff   723 East 25th Ave   4   1   

February 28, 2019   California   Oakland   9755 Edes Ave   3   1   

February 22, 2019   Alabama   Birmingham   1100 block of Carnation Dr   2   2   

February 21, 2019   Maryland   Baltimore   500 block of Bloom St   4   1   

February 21, 2019   Kentucky   Elizabethtown   600 N Miles St   2   2   

February 21, 2019   Texas   Houston   12800 block of Eastbrook Dr   2   2   

February 20, 2019   Tennessee   Covington   529 N College St   4   0   

February 17, 2019   Texas   Henderson   504 S Van Buren St   2   2   

February 17, 2019   Indiana   Evansville   664 E Illinois St   5   0   

February 17, 2019   Louisiana   New Orleans   Tulane Ave and Elk Pl   5   1   

February 16, 2019   Mississippi   Clinton   1214 Foxhill Dr   0   5   

February 15, 2019   Illinois   Aurora   641 Archer Ave   6   6   

February 14, 2019   Florida   Jacksonville   5905 Redpoll Ave   2   2   

February 11, 2019   Texas   Livingston   3628 FM 3126   0   5   

February 9, 2019   Virginia   Petersburg   109 Perry St   4   0   

February 6, 2019   New York   Brooklyn   1778 Fulton St   3   1   

February 5, 2019   Texas   San Antonio   538 Hot Wells Blvd   2   2   

February 4, 2019   District of Columbia   Washington   2341 Pennsylvania Avenue SE   4   0   

February 4, 2019   Louisiana   Baton Rouge   4000 block of Topeka St   4   0   

February 3, 2019   California   Palm Springs   E Sunny Dunes Rd and El Placer Rd   0   4   

February 3, 2019   Illinois   Chicago   938 E 75th St   5   2   

February 1, 2019   California   San Diego   6800 block of Springfield St   4   0   

January 28, 2019   Texas   Houston   7815 Harding St   4   2   

January 27, 2019   Alabama   Birmingham   Avenue O and Warrior Rd   5   0   

January 26, 2019   Louisiana   Gonzales   42350 Church Point Rd   0   5   

January 26, 2019   Indiana   Indianapolis   2957 N Sherman Dr   5   0   

January 26, 2019   Georgia   Albany   300 block of West Roosevelt   4   0   

January 26, 2019   New Jersey   Newark   612 Bergen St   3   1   

January 24, 2019   Georgia   Rockmart   148 W Church Rd   1   4   

January 24, 2019   Pennsylvania   State College   1450 S Atherton St   1   4   

January 23, 2019   Florida   Sebring   1901 US 27 S   0   5   

January 20, 2019   Florida   Miami   26133 SW 139th Ave   4   0   

January 19, 2019   Pennsylvania   Lebanon   1140 Church St   4   0   

January 19, 2019   South Carolina   Gaffney   1435 Wilcox Ave   4   1   

January 19, 2019   Texas   Houston   7041 Sherman St   2   3   

January 19, 2019   Illinois   Chicago   4400 block of W Madison St   4   0   

January 19, 2019   Florida   Jacksonville   11445 Brian Lakes Drive   2   3   

January 17, 2019   Kentucky   Owensboro   940 Audubon Ave   1   3   

January 16, 2019   California   Palmdale   Ranch Center Dr and 40th St W   1   3   

January 16, 2019   Florida   Jacksonville   Emerson St and Spring Park Rd   5   1   

January 15, 2019   Arkansas   Little Rock   5420 Baseline Rd   3   1   

January 13, 2019   Arizona   Phoenix   2445 E Van Buren St   5   1   

January 6, 2019   New Mexico   Roswell   1300 block of W College Blvd   4   0   

anuary 4, 2019   Virginia   Hurt   3197 Shula Dr   2   3   

January 4, 2019   California   Torrance   22501 Hawthorne Blvd   4   3   

January 3, 2019   Arizona   Yuma   3800 block of E. County 18½ St   3   1   

January 2, 2019   Arkansas   Jonesboro   3516 Galaxy St   3   1   

January 1, 2019   South Carolina   Columbia   1709 Decker Blvd   5   0   

January 1, 2019   Florida   Tallahassee   2020 W Pensacola St   5   0   

[Jess from VA]

Where are those numbers from?

So 2-3 is a mass shooting?  (the highest number is 6, twice, both Chicago)

Any idea of how many shooters in each report, or if any reported shots fired (injuries or death) were ruled justified, or if any policeman were involved? 

[Serk]

Looks like his plan is working just as he planned... 

Why did you choose to use firearms?
I could have chosen any weapons or means.A TATP filled rental van. Household flour, a method of dispersion and an ignition source.A ballpeen hammer and a wooden shield.Gas,fire,vehicular attacks,plane attacks, any means were available. I had the will and I had the resources.

I chose firearms for the affect it would have on social discourse, the extra media coverage they would provide and the affect it could have on the politics of United states and thereby the political situation of the world.
The US is torn into many factions by its second amendment, along state, social, cultural and, most importantly, racial lines.
With enough pressure the left wing within the United states will seek to abolish the second amendment, and the right wing within the US will see this as an attack on their very freedom and liberty.
This attempted abolishment of rights by the left will result in a dramatic polarization of the people in the United States and eventually a fracturing of the US along cultural and racial lines.

.....

Finally, to create conflict between the two ideologies within the United States on the ownership of firearms in order to further the social, cultural, political and racial divide within the United states.This conflict over the 2nd amendment and the attempted removal of firearms rights will ultimately result in a civil war that will eventually balkanize the US along political, cultural and, most importantly, racial lines.