Valkyrie & GoldWing Gears Ratios and Interchange - Can we get the FACTS?

[sailed2japan]

First off nobody suggest a search, especially you CA Exhaust Coatings, it seems like 4 out 5 of your post say that and we all see the little bar at the top of the forum. Besides, even though this topic has been brought up many times the numbers are elusive.

OK, I've spent 2 hours trying to find some hard facts on this and all I am is confused. It seems like every bit of information I find contadicts the last thing I read. The only bit I've found that I'm 99% sure (not convinced yet) is that these are the Valkyrie's gear ratios:

Primary Drive        1.591
Secondary Drive    0.971
Final Drive            2.833 
1st gear               2.66
2nd gear             1.722
3rd gear              1.291
4th gear             1
5th gear             0.805
 
Now, like I said, I may be wrong, but this was from a tech write up on a Mario OD gear swap. I've read that the final drive ratio for a Wing is the same and just as many stating that it is 2.75. I've read that the final drives don't interchange and I believe that is true since from pictures that I have found it seems the the shock mounts are in different locations. However, nobody ever mentions changing the gears inside the unit. I've read that the goldwings use different  4th an 5th gear ratios, but haven't been able to find what they are. It would be good to put this thing to rest since I have read at least 20 threads in this forum alone on it and no FACTS (aka numbers) were to be found. Please do us all a favor and don't post something someone said on some other forum unless you can confirm it to be true. I wish I had access to a Honda data base, but I don't or I don't know where to find it.

[Jess Tolbirt]

just thinking here,,
i dont think you can mix the gears because the slide along the cluster gear and the Valk has straight cut gears and the wings have slant cut gears,,,
ok i will quit thinking now,,

[X Ring]

I heard but don't know for sure that after the Valk was introduced the 1500 Wings used Valk tranny components until the 1800 was introduced in '01.  I did find a scan of an '89 1500 Wing Service Manual and it listed the gears as

Primary Reduction:       1.592
Secondary Reduction:   0.971
Gear Ratio, 1st            2.667
                2nd           1.722
                3rd            1.273
                4th            0.964
                5th            0.759
Final Reduction            2.883

Marty

[sailed2japan]

I've also heard both ways on the gears in the Wing, that they are slant (helical?) cut gears and that they are straight like the Valk.

X Ring:
I saw similar transmission ratios posted on one of the wing forums, but couldn't confirm. My understanding is that any gears would have to come from a 97+, since that's when they reworked the tranny, but I may be, and probably am, wrong.

[sailed2japan]

Why can't find this for the GL1500???

2009 Honda GL1800 Gold Wing Drivetrain Specification

Clutch Wet, multiplate with coil springs
Clutch Operation Hydraulic
Transmission Type 5-speed (including overdrive, plus electric reverse)
Primary Reduction 1.591 (78/49)
Gear Ratios (1) 2.375 (38/16)
Gear Ratios (2) 1.454 (32/22)
Gear Ratios (3) 1.068 (31/29)
Gear Ratios (4) 0.843 (27/32)
Gear Ratios (5) 0.686 (24/35)
Final Reduction 2.750 (33/12)
Final Drive Enclosed shaft

[hubcapsc]

I googled this up with "gl1500 owners manual"...

Power Transmission

Primary reduction                    1.592
Secondary reduction                0.971
Gear ratio, 1st                        2.667
            2nd                          1.722
            3rd                          1.273
            4th                          0.964
            OD                          0.759
Final reduction                      2.833



The particular owner's manual I looked at had 1989 written in it...

-Mike

[98valk]

According to Fred Rau in motorcycle consumer news june 05 article. GL1500 3rd 1.272, 4th .964, 5th .758.
Valkyries 3rd 1.291, 4th 1.00, 5th .805. 1st and 2nd are the same.

early than '97 gear sets will not work, the GW shafts are smaller from my understanding and other posts from a few yrs ago. The parts fiches seem to bear this out.

Goldwing gears have always been straight cut. Don't know about the GL1800.
http://www.goldwingfacts.com/forums/forum1/101096.html

http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,27706.0.html
from the June '05 issue of motorcycle consumer news, by Fred Rau. He was the editor of Wing World magazine in '87, the news letter of the largest Gold Wing organization, the Gold Wing Road Riders Association (GWRRA), and now contributes to MCN.

"in '97 the GW recieved a fairly major upgrade that was, oddly enough not heralded by Honda. Honda quietly lifted the Valkyrie's main bearings, pistons, piston rings, con-rod bolts and valve springs into the '97 Wing, along with the smoother-shifting Valkyrie gearbox and the entire final drive unit. In addition, the clutch was strengthened, also."

Also from the article, 1) '88 through '94, 4th and 5th gear wear out at around 100k miles, gears were upgraded in '95 and newer. Also, shift forks wear out from riders resting their toe on the shift lever while riding. their experts warned that the use of heel-toe shifters is also responsible for shift fork damage, as your heal puts much more force on the shifter than your toe would. 2) speedo cable should be lubed every front tire change other wise they break at 100k miles. 3) final drive splines, maintenance should be done IAW honda service bulletin 97991-MAH-305.

[sailed2japan]

I know some people don't bother to try and find things out, they just ask. I, however, Try to find information before on my own instead of posting up a thread on oil changes. This is why it irritates me when I ask a question and get "use search" or the many variants as an answer. If I'm asking I couldn't find it, if it's here be kind enough to point it out, that's all I ask.

Back to the topic at hand, it's time to break out the gear calculator. If any of you guys are interested in changing trans ratios, rear ratios, or tire sizes, in any vehicle this is a great tool: http://www.f-body.org/gears/

CA, thanks for the numbers.

Final drive is at the rear wheel, Primary and secondary reductions are in the transmission. I know that primary is usually before the main shaft of the trans and I would think that secondary would be after as power is tramsmitted to the output shaft.

[sailed2japan]

So here's what I've come up with so far using a Dunlop E3 stock tire diameter and assuming that all other ratios for the Wing are the same as the Valk in 5th:

MPH                 Valk RPM               Wing RPM
45                    2050                     1925
50                    2275                     2150
55                    2500                     2350
60                    2725                     2550
65                    2950                     2800
70                    3200                     3000
75                    3400                     3200
80                    3650                     3450
85                    3850                     3650
90                    4100                     3850
....anybody cruise over 90??
Top Speed         154mph                 163mph
at 7000rpm
Please note that these numbers aren't exactly precise as the calculator gives speed in gear at rpm, not rpm at speed in gear. Hence having to translate it around they may be off by 25-35rpm.

[f6john]

So here's what I've come up with so far using a Dunlop E3 stock tire diameter and assuming that all other ratios for the Wing are the same as the Valk in 5th:

MPH                 Valk RPM               Wing RPM
45                    2050                     1925
50                    2275                     2150
55                    2500                     2350
60                    2725                     2550
65                    2950                     2800
70                    3200                     3000
75                    3400                     3200
80                    3650                     3450
85                    3850                     3650
90                    4100                     3850
....anybody cruise over 90??
Top Speed         154mph                 163mph
at 7000rpm
Please note that these numbers aren't exactly precise as the calculator gives speed in gear at rpm, not rpm at speed in gear. Hence having to translate it around they may be off by 25-35rpm.

     If your numbers are accurate then I swear I believe that some Valkyries were shipped out with Goldwing gears in them. Not mine, but I have ridden a couple of Valklyries that would cruise a good 200 rpm less at 70 than mine. Now I know our speedo's are not that accurate and there can be variances there too but 200 rpm in fifth is a big difference when your talking 70+ mph.

[sailed2japan]

I've also heard that the Tachs have a bit of variance in them, too. Not more than any other oem tach, but why that an aftermarket tach is one of the first things you put on anytime you start hotrodding anything that you plan to run hard.

[98valk]

CA, thanks for the numbers.

your welcome.
I post the search comments due to the fact that I have been on this board since '00 and the same questions come up over and over again.
the numbers I posted are from one of my posts.
I am gentle compared to posters on other boards, when its comes to the same question by somebody who doesn't want to take the time to search a little and learn for themselves, even RD was mild in his comments.
A lot ask questions for things that are in Shop talk already.
If someone searches finds an old post, still doesn't understand or the post doesn't completely help the problem, then post to the old post, with an addtional question, so that everybody can learn to keep these great bikes in top shape. That's how I feel about it
not addressing the above to u but just in general.
just my twocents

[sailed2japan]

I must have over looked that other posting. I skimmed over every thread I found using search. Either way it looks like the easiest thing to do would be to toss in a Wing engine/tranny and use the complete Valk Heads, Cam, Carbs, etc.

[98valk]

I must have over looked that other posting. I skimmed over every thread I found using search. Either way it looks like the easiest thing to do would be to toss in a Wing engine/tranny and use the complete Valk Heads, Cam, Carbs, etc.

I am trying to get a copy of the later gl1500 test reports, to verify 100% that the gear ratios for a GL didn't change when the "along with the smoother-shifting Valkyrie gearbox " was used it also included the Valkyries ratios.

[Madmike]

The parts fiche lists the gears and the tooth counts.  I think that I went through them a while back and determined that there was a difference but can't say that for certain (pretty sure that I might have...).  You can print them out and do a side by side comparison if you haven't already done so.

97 98 GL 1500 A transmission fiche