gas mileage

[doubleminded]

How come my 98 tourer with cobra 6/6 pipes gets such lousy gas mileage.24 last tank.27.7 the one before that.The bike runs perfectly.I have been told maybe the cobra jets are making it run rich.The plugs dont show it.

[98valk]

cobra 6x6 reduce torque, so now u have to use more throttle to get the bike moving. cobra never sold a jet kit, although they and everybody else like to call it that. It is actually an adjustable needle kit. their needles are the richest of all the needles avail for the valkyrie. u could try lowering the needles by raising the clip up one notch. I believe the kit instructions set them on the 3rd notch which is too rich.

[doubleminded]

cobra 6x6 reduce torque, so now u have to use more throttle to get the bike moving. cobra never sold a jet kit, although they and everybody else like to call it that. It is actually an adjustable needle kit. their needles are the richest of all the needles avail for the valkyrie. u could try lowering the needles by raising the clip up one notch. I believe the kit instructions set them on the 3rd notch which is too rich.

OK.I assume you dont have to pull the carburetors to do that.sounds like the answer.

[X Ring]

My understanding is you lose 10 hp at the upper rpms not at the lower.

Marty

[John U.]

Have you checked the usual suspects, dirty air filter, vacume leaks, tire air pressure?

[The Anvil]

Because the sound makes you ride like an A-hole? (that's my problem).

The HP loss thing is BS. That's not why you're losing 10mpg. 

[Jack B]

My Tourer always got around 30 MPG. My I/S gets about 37 MPG ????

[NCGhostrider]

I wish my I/S would get 37!!  30 is my magic number.   

I have dreamed of having in flight fueling at times, I don't mind the poor mileage, just hate the inconvenience...

Craig
99 I/S

[Bugslayer]

When I had Cobra's, my gas mileage sucked.

[The Anvil]

When I had Cobra's, my gas mileage sucked.

I'm guessing your mileage still sucks.

The other night my buddy Eddie and I fueled up at the same time. I was getting 33 he was getting 35-ish. He's bone stock, I have Cobras and proper jetting. Confirmed with Rich the other Valk rider in our group that this is about what he gets too, he's running modded stock pipes.

The Cobra pipes are not the problem.

[Chrisj CMA]

I have only had Cobras on my bike.  So, nothing to compare (on this bike) it has not been jetted or the carbs changed in any way.  I do run a K&N (with pre-filter) to get plugs looking right.  It has always run perfectly.  I used to get 37,38mpg but now with the alkeehol gas Im 32-35 on average but it hits 130 indicated and pulls like a Valkyrie and I have ridded 4 or 5 with stock set ups to know she is as strong or stronger than the next one.  The Cobras dont hurt gas mileage or take away noticable power.  They just make it look better and sound better thats all  

[98valk]

The HP loss thing is BS.

the factory pro dyno indicates otherwise.

http://www.f6rider.com/Valk/Two%20Bros%20on%20Dyno.htm

"First off if you have a 6 into 6 exhaust with unequal length pipes like the Cobra drag pipes you are starting at a loss. The pipes on the dyno compared to the stock pipes started off with approximately 3 less hp."

http://www.timskelton.com/valkyrie/tech/dollars_per_hp.htm     list - 8hp
there have been other personel dyno runs over the yrs that show a 5 HP loss.
all of the above is just putting the pipes on a stock bike with their needle kit.

[The Anvil]

I have only had Cobras on my bike.  So, nothing to compare (on this bike) it has not been jetted or the carbs changed in any way.  I do run a K&N (with pre-filter) to get plugs looking right.  It has always run perfectly.  I used to get 37,38mpg but now with the alkeehol gas Im 32-35 on average but it hits 130 indicated and pulls like a Valkyrie and I have ridded 4 or 5 with stock set ups to know she is as strong or stronger than the next one.  The Cobras dont hurt gas mileage or take away noticable power.  They just make it look better and sound better thats all  

Oh thank god, someone else who has actually ridden both and can attest to what I've been saying all along instead of buying into the BS from the "loud pipes suck" crowd.

Maybe the guys at "Factory Pro" just don't know WTF they're doing with a bike.

[olddog1946]

I have cobra's on my 01 std, neighbor has stock pipes on his 97 std, I regularly get 33-34 mpg , he usually gets about 32...and his is no faster than mine...

[Disco]

I don't remember how many miles are on your bike, and while it looked great sitting on the floor at CCofD, it is 13+ years old (jade & black Tourer, right?).  Once the local Wrench Parties start up again, we can give it the once-over, but there are lots of easy things you can do to address possible causes that probably need to be looked at simply because it is 13 years old.

Rebuild the OEM petcock (cover set or the kit - I don't remember the manufacturer - that just has the rubber/plastic parts + spring).  A 13 year old diaphragm is trouble waiting to happen.  No, you don't need a pingle unless you just want one.
Vacuum Lines
Vacuum Caps
Intake O-Rings
Rubber Boots on the intake side
Air filter
There's more, but that's a good start.

Did you ever get a RH saddlebag?

[JetDriver]

I have only had Cobras on my bike.  So, nothing to compare (on this bike) it has not been jetted or the carbs changed in any way.  I do run a K&N (with pre-filter) to get plugs looking right.  It has always run perfectly.  I used to get 37,38mpg but now with the alkeehol gas Im 32-35 on average but it hits 130 indicated and pulls like a Valkyrie and I have ridded 4 or 5 with stock set ups to know she is as strong or stronger than the next one.  The Cobras dont hurt gas mileage or take away noticable power.  They just make it look better and sound better thats all  

Oh thank god, someone else who has actually ridden both and can attest to what I've been saying all along instead of buying into the BS from the "loud pipes suck" crowd.

Maybe the guys at "Factory Pro" just don't know WTF they're doing with a bike.

Anvil-

I've come to appreciate your knowledge and experience, but are you PURPOSELY trying to win friends here?

[The Anvil]

I have only had Cobras on my bike.  So, nothing to compare (on this bike) it has not been jetted or the carbs changed in any way.  I do run a K&N (with pre-filter) to get plugs looking right.  It has always run perfectly.  I used to get 37,38mpg but now with the alkeehol gas Im 32-35 on average but it hits 130 indicated and pulls like a Valkyrie and I have ridded 4 or 5 with stock set ups to know she is as strong or stronger than the next one.  The Cobras dont hurt gas mileage or take away noticable power.  They just make it look better and sound better thats all  

Oh thank god, someone else who has actually ridden both and can attest to what I've been saying all along instead of buying into the BS from the "loud pipes suck" crowd.

Maybe the guys at "Factory Pro" just don't know WTF they're doing with a bike.

Anvil-

I've come to appreciate your knowledge and experience, but are you PURPOSELY trying to win friends here?

I'm not trying to alienate people but I'm not kissing ass either. This has been beat to death but people should at least get correct answers to their questions. Not apocryphal legends about pipes and dartboard diagnosis.

[doubleminded]

I don't remember how many miles are on your bike, and while it looked great sitting on the floor at CCofD, it is 13+ years old (jade & black Tourer, right?).  Once the local Wrench Parties start up again, we can give it the once-over, but there are lots of easy things you can do to address possible causes that probably need to be looked at simply because it is 13 years old.

Rebuild the OEM petcock (cover set or the kit - I don't remember the manufacturer - that just has the rubber/plastic parts + spring).  A 13 year old diaphragm is trouble waiting to happen.  No, you don't need a pingle unless you just want one.
Vacuum Lines
Vacuum Caps
Intake O-Rings

yes,its from cc denton,green and black.it has a right saddlebag,didnt know it was ever missing.26,000 miles.
Rubber Boots on the intake side
Air filter
There's more, but that's a good start.

Did you ever get a RH saddlebag?

[doubleminded]

my bike gas 26,000 miles.has a saddlebag.its hard to believe itmight need all these things and run so perfectly.

[98valk]

my bike gas 26,000 miles.has a saddlebag.its hard to believe itmight need all these things and run so perfectly.

Suggested reading
http://www.redlineoil.com/content/files/tech/S1-1%20Tech%20Info.pdf

if u have been using seafoam which is 50% pale oil, when it hits the hot intake valve it will solidify.
better cleaners along with the redline are by amsoil, techron, newest lucas and newest STP. Something easy to try.
as mentioned by Disco, if the petcock condition is servere, it will restrict fuel flow causing a lean condition. this would require more throttle than normal and would cause the bike to be running down the hwy on the carb's needle circuit instead of the pilot circuit thereby lowering MPG.
I suggest one of the fuel cleaners and a petcock rebuild.

[Hoser]

Uh oh, here we go with the butt dynos again.    Hoser

[The Anvil]

Uh oh, here we go with the butt dynos again.    Hoser

I'm not even arguing power this time. Whatever, I don't give a crap about that, I know what I know and it would seem some others do too. That's good enough for us. But the idea that the Cobras are costing 10mpg? 

Oh wait, now it's Seafoam that's the problem, a product that hundreds (if not thousands) of Valk riders swear by. I'm starting to wonder if we're not just being effed with. 

[Ferris Leets]

Uh oh, here we go with the butt dynos again.    Hoser

Yup,  I still want to see the calibration sheet on that dyno, then again maybe not
   I guess whoever hacked Anvil's account returned it to him.

[The Anvil]

Uh oh, here we go with the butt dynos again.    Hoser

Yup,  I still want to see the calibration sheet on that dyno, then again maybe not
   I guess whoever hacked Anvil's account returned it to him.

And I want to see the one on the dyno saying it's down ten horses. 

[Momz]

Riding smoothly, keeping it below 3K RPM/70 MPH, a clean air filter, no vaccum leaks (Desmog), proper inflation in your tires, ECT Mod will improve your milage.

Stay away from stop and go city traffic, use the lowest octane fuel that your bike runs best on without detonation, don't think your mileage is as bad as you think, you should be able to trust your "reserve" on your pet rooster.

Ai the last INZANE last July we had a fuel mileage challenge and it was won by a 99 I/S (w/Cobras) ridden by Greendragon and Turtle Dove. We drove at a sporting pace except through TC, and he still got better than 46+ MPG. He is from Colorado so his bike may be jetted richer than most.

If your bike cannot get at least 37 MPG, you need to investigate for some degradtion of some parts of your bike.  

[98valk]

Uh oh, here we go with the butt dynos again.    Hoser

I'm not even arguing power this time. Whatever, I don't give a crap about that, I know what I know and it would seem some others do too. That's good enough for us. But the idea that the Cobras are costing 10mpg? 

Oh wait, now it's Seafoam that's the problem, a product that hundreds (if not thousands) of Valk riders swear by. I'm starting to wonder if we're not just being effed with. 

U start an argument when there never was one. Nobody posted that the cobras are costing him 10 mpg, only u did!! U combine posts and make new post/arguments which were never there. U consistantly do it on both boards here and other valkyrie message boards.
The org poster stated a 3 mpg loss from what he/she was getting. My informative comments are based on that and nothing else. I do not know his/her riding style, riding terrain etc., so I provided info to help the person to determine what their problem/s or combination thereof might be.
Knowledge is power. Argumentive opinions combined with others are not!
There are a combination of things that make or lose MPG. I get consistant 35-37 mpg avg, that's local, traffic jam commutes and hwy, more hwy and that goes up, straight hwy btwn tank fills I've seen high 40s to 50 mpg. And I am actually too rich on my pilots right now which will be perfect after installing the viking pipes. My exhaust is only one part of the package.
stock pipes with proper size glass packs using a collector will always do better than straight pipes.
Suggest any exhaust article by David Vizard or any of his books esp., Performance with economy
book.

[The Anvil]

Uh oh, here we go with the butt dynos again.    Hoser

I'm not even arguing power this time. Whatever, I don't give a crap about that, I know what I know and it would seem some others do too. That's good enough for us. But the idea that the Cobras are costing 10mpg? 

Oh wait, now it's Seafoam that's the problem, a product that hundreds (if not thousands) of Valk riders swear by. I'm starting to wonder if we're not just being effed with. 

U start an argument when there never was one. Nobody posted that the cobras are costing him 10 mpg, only u did!!

No, you kinda did blame the pipes.

"cobra 6x6 reduce torque, so now u have to use more throttle to get the bike moving."

At least stick by your claims.

[Ricky-D]

"cobra 6x6 reduce torque, so now u have to use more throttle to get the bike moving."

I don't see anything wrong with this statement that is concerning a Valkyrie equipped with 6/6 pipes who's rider is experiencing a few MPG lower than what he normally gets.

It's been gone over time and again on this forum about the loss of some horsepower with the 6/6 pipes, and the best results with the 6/6 set up can usually get the bike back up to original horsepower and torque output figures, or pretty close at least, with additional work and more modification.

Always couching these discussions in exaggerated bull and turning them into personal affronts is childish at best and to me is surely a sign of juvenile thought processes, all of which seems lately to be the modus-operandi of some forum members. 

***

[Hoser]

Uh oh, here we go with the butt dynos again.    Hoser

Yup,  I still want to see the calibration sheet on that dyno, then again maybe not
   I guess whoever hacked Anvil's account returned it to him.

And I want to see the one on the dyno saying it's down ten horses. 

All I'm saying is put stock pipes on, go to dyno shop, run dyno, switch to cobras on same bike, run again on same dyno, same operator, same day.  Compare figures, then you will know.  Don't have an agenda, keep an open mind.  Make your own opinion, based on what you see.  I don't know what the results would be, and I don't think you do either. Hoser

[98valk]

there were many dynos posted back in '97-98 when the cobras were first put on the bike. dyno runs always showed 5-10HP less than stock pipes. This is a known fact.
The link I posted to FP testing and jetting results involving the cobras are one result of tunning and getting the power back if not a little better at certain RPM levels which is exactly what straight pipes where org designed to do by HD dirt track racing engineers. Remember the FP dyno numbers are true HP #s and are different than the dynojet #s.

one can read here if interested in facts

http://www.factorypro.com/dyno/true1.html

and here a list of many sites indicating same

http://www.factorypro.com/dyno/Inflated%20dynojet%20horsepower.htm

[Fudd]

cobra 6x6 reduce torque, so now u have to use more throttle to get the bike moving. cobra never sold a jet kit, although they and everybody else like to call it that. It is actually an adjustable needle kit. their needles are the richest of all the needles avail for the valkyrie. u could try lowering the needles by raising the clip up one notch. I believe the kit instructions set them on the 3rd notch which is too rich.

CA, Is clip position 2 (second from the top)  the set-up you'd use with stock exaust and a K&N with prefilter?

[98valk]

cobra 6x6 reduce torque, so now u have to use more throttle to get the bike moving. cobra never sold a jet kit, although they and everybody else like to call it that. It is actually an adjustable needle kit. their needles are the richest of all the needles avail for the valkyrie. u could try lowering the needles by raising the clip up one notch. I believe the kit instructions set them on the 3rd notch which is too rich.

CA, Is clip position 2 (second from the top)  the set-up you'd use with stock exaust and a K&N with prefilter?

raising the clip will make the needle midrange leaner. so yes to answer your question.
after that setting and a few 100 miles try shimming (washers) for only the front two carb needles a little richer. I think u will like the results.

[John Schmidt]

Hmmm, not sure what all the fuss is about. Last time I hit the dyno it was hotter than....well, you know, and hope I never find out. Temps were miserable in Paducah during that InZane(ask anybody that attended), and I clocked a solid 94hp at the time. With that, my mileage is generally in the mid-upper 30's on the highway, much lower in town. If I run the back roads and well under 3k rpm, I'll be in the 40's, kick it up to at/above 3k on the interstate, I'll be in the mid 30's. I have all the hp I'll ever need, those figures are quite regular regardless of my load. I'm happy overall so I quit messing with it. And no, it ain't bone stock.

If you're mileage suffers, make ONE change at a time and see what happens.

[BIG--T]

I am glad I found this post, so I won't have to start a new thread. I have Cobras on a 98 Std. and mileage would be 29-35 bc I ride pretty agressively. I went on a trip in the mountains with some friends (put my baffles back in for the trip) and they took their time running 45-65, and I got 40 mpg 2 up!!

I know at that speed I was bound to get better mileage. So my question is, will I get better mileage with the baffles in or does it matter? I was sure tickeled to see 40 mpg and would probably be better than that solo.

[Chrisj CMA]

Dyno, No Dyno. Statistics....PROOF?!?.....dont make a difference, unless you are eeking out tenths on the drag strip, put on the pipes you want, make her sound and look like you want, ride the snot out of it and you will both be happy.  No one can tell the difference between 3hp up or down anyway so why all the hair splitting?  Ride it the way you want and be happy....if you dont like it, dont use it, and be happy but SHUT UP ALREADY!

Smokin Joe runs Cobras on every bike he has.....go try to keep up with him, then come in here and complain how them pipes suck all the power out of a bike!

[tank_post142]

jeaz Chris, having a bad day? 

[BIG--T]

Dyno, No Dyno. Statistics....PROOF?!?.....dont make a difference, unless you are eeking out tenths on the drag strip, put on the pipes you want, make her sound and look like you want, ride the snot out of it and you will both be happy.  No one can tell the difference between 3hp up or down anyway so why all the hair splitting?  Ride it the way you want and be happy....if you dont like it, dont use it, and be happy but SHUT UP ALREADY!

Smokin Joe runs Cobras on every bike he has.....go try to keep up with him, then come in here and complain how them pipes suck all the power out of a bike!

I'm glad you told me about Smokin Joe and his Cobras. With all the negative remarks about Cobra, I was considering changing...not that I would but was wondering about it. As you said unless you're on the strip no big deal and I love the sound and now like my mileage!

[Hoser]

Uh oh, here we go with the butt dynos again.    Hoser

Yup,  I still want to see the calibration sheet on that dyno, then again maybe not
  I guess whoever hacked Anvil's account returned it to him.

And I want to see the one on the dyno saying it's down ten horses.  

All I'm saying is put stock pipes on, go to dyno shop, run dyno, switch to cobras on same bike, run again on same dyno, same operator, same day.  Compare figures, then you will know.  Don't have an agenda, keep an open mind.  Make your own opinion, based on what you see.  I don't know what the results would be, and I don't think you do either. Hoser

As I said above, Power wise one would have to run the same bike on both sets of exhaust on the same day on the same dyno to find out that information.  As far as gas mileage goes, that has nothing to do with a dyno, I suppose that info would have to found out by useing both exhaust on the same bike with the same amount of gas from the same pump.  I couldn't care less, way to much trouble for me.  I dyno my bike once in awhile at ralleys, just to embarass the big inch cruisers.
   Hoser  
I know I've posted this before, but it's my best run ever. I'm proud of the old girl pushing close to 100 hp.  Oh, and with stock exhaust.    

[Momz]

Not all dynos are calibrated the same.

My 98 with Cobras, 2 HP and 2 Ft/Lbs less than the GL1800 that ran just before my bike.

[Farther]

Please decipher the blurr.