Front Brake Shoe Pad Pin Removal

[Dr Bobs Patient]

I am working on my 99 IS with 56,000 miles on her.  Rebuilt the forks - left fork had been leaking and the brakes were covered in fork oil.  Got the forks rebuilt (subject in another thread), but when it came to the brake pads, the left caliber Pad Pin and Pad Pin Plug would not move (right side was difficult but broke loose).  I stripped out the screw driver slot on the PPP, tried Liquid Wrench, tried to cut in another slot and stripped that out and ended up drilling the plug out.  Finally got it out without damaging any threads.  After that I stipped the allen head of the Pad Pin. At this point I stopped due to frustration to try tomorrow and I ordered replacement parts.

At this point I'm looking for ideas on how to remove that Pad Pin.  My thoughts are to drill it out and hope I don't damage the body of the caliper.  Any suggestions from the wise folks here would be appreciated.

DBP 

[RP#62]

Some have done it by turning the visible portion of the pin with vice grips (and then going back in with a new one).
-RP

[JetDriver]

You can also try a hairdryer.  Try to heat up the body around the pin as much as possible, and the pin itself as little as possible.  It's worked for me.

[FryeVRCCDS0067]

If you can't get it out by any other method and wind up drilling it then get the right size easy-out. Then buy a set of reverse drill bits and use the correct size for the easy out. More than 50% of the time the bolt will back out while your drilling it with a reverse bit. At least that's how it's worked out for me. That may be a hardened bolt and it may break your bit so only go that route as a last resort.

I've seen many parts ruined by off center drilling for an easy-out and I've done it myself. A broken easy-out or drill bit is too hard to drill and will have to be shattered with a punch and removed in pieces, you don't want to go there if you can help it.

Of all the penetrating oils I've used in my day job, Kroil has worked the best for me. I've used it to break loose bolts torqued to 600ftlbs after I broke a torque multiplier rated at 1000ftlbs trying to remove them. After removing them I discovered that it not only crept down the bolt but it also crept up the bolt. I was impressed. Use it and give it a day or two to work if you can.

[donaldcc]

  I did the same about 6,000 miles ago when caliper was off to clean pistons and added new pads.  stripped the allen head with installation.  it is tight but could not back the pin out.  just leaving it until I need new pads and hope i will be able to do the vice grip method.  figure i have another 20,000 miles before i need to worry about it.  i did get a POS caliper from Pinwall to have in case i screw it up.

keep us updated with your progress.

[Ricky-D]

RP's reply in post #1 is the way to do it.

You have to crank down hard with the vise-grips cause the pin is very hard and will tend to rotate on the pin.

Anti-seize is the cure to avoid future problems.

***

[Gryphon Rider]

I outlined my successful solution in detail:
http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,27923.0.html

[FryeVRCCDS0067]

That "Grabit" is a cool product. I'll have to keep my eyes open for a set.

[Dr Bobs Patient]

I outlined my successful solution in detail:
http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,27923.0.html

Thanks GR for the link.  My search was for Pad Pin, no wonder I didn't find your thread.  I purchased a Irwin Hanson exractor kit at a local tool shop today, similar to the tool you used.

I also order the replacement Pad Pin and Cap but it will take 7-10 days according to HDL.  So in the interim I am riding her with one side with new pads and one side with old pads.  The old pads aren't down past the wear grooves yet, so I feel safe in doing this.  Otherwise she'd be in the garage until parts arrived.  Also am still looking for Kroil penetrating oil.  My tool jobber has heard of it, they use it out at Gulfstream here in Savannah so somebody has it around town.  I'll post when I get the pin out and replaced to let y'all know how it came out!  Thanks guys.

DBP

[YoungPUP]

Be generous with the anti sieze on reassembly.  Steel + Aluminum =  bad juju.

[Dr Bobs Patient]

Be generous with the anti sieze on reassembly.  Steel + Aluminum =  bad juju.

Yep on the anti-sieze, as I have several tubes in the tool box.  Learned that in basic metal shop with disimilar metals.

DBP

[Chrisj CMA]

 I did the same about 6,000 miles ago when caliper was off to clean pistons and added new pads.  stripped the allen head with installation.  it is tight but could not back the pin out.  just leaving it until I need new pads and hope i will be able to do the vice grip method.  figure i have another 20,000 miles before i need to worry about it.  i did get a POS caliper from Pinwall to have in case i screw it up.

keep us updated with your progress.

Just wondering what made you tighten that thing so much.  tight as a sparkplug is all it needs........"stripped it on installation"  Holy cow....

[donaldcc]

 I did the same about 6,000 miles ago when caliper was off to clean pistons and added new pads.  stripped the allen head with installation.  it is tight but could not back the pin out.  just leaving it until I need new pads and hope i will be able to do the vice grip method.  figure i have another 20,000 miles before i need to worry about it.  i did get a POS caliper from Pinwall to have in case i screw it up.

keep us updated with your progress.

Just wondering what made you tighten that thing so much.  tight as a sparkplug is all it needs........"stripped it on installation"  Holy cow....

yeh, pretty stupid.

actually partially stripped taking off caliper when i had same problem as original poster and then i think i just completed the job when i reinstalled.  i was afraid i had done it removing, so i tried to tighten and untighten a couple times to make sure i had it right and sure enough, i had it stripped after all the fooling around with it. 

oh well, i have done worse things.  but i did get my new pads on and pistons cleaned and will worry about it in a couple of years.

[FryeVRCCDS0067]

 I did the same about 6,000 miles ago when caliper was off to clean pistons and added new pads.  stripped the allen head with installation.  it is tight but could not back the pin out.  just leaving it until I need new pads and hope i will be able to do the vice grip method.  figure i have another 20,000 miles before i need to worry about it.  i did get a POS caliper from Pinwall to have in case i screw it up.

keep us updated with your progress.

Just wondering what made you tighten that thing so much.  tight as a sparkplug is all it needs........"stripped it on installation"  Holy cow....

yeh, pretty stupid.

actually partially stripped taking off caliper when i had same problem as original poster and then i think i just completed the job when i reinstalled.  i was afraid i had done it removing, so i tried to tighten and untighten a couple times to make sure i had it right and sure enough, i had it stripped after all the fooling around with it. 

oh well, i have done worse things.  but i did get my new pads on and pistons cleaned and will worry about it in a couple of years.

It's pretty easy to strip an allen head bolt. Maybe there is dirt in the bolt head or a blemish on the wrench and you think it's fully seated but it's not, then it strips. Once you do, you've probably rounded off your allen wrench slightly which will ruin the next bolt you use it on.

You can save a good allen wrench over and over with a bench grinder. Just carefully shorten it enough to get past the rounded corners with the grinder being careful not to overheat the metal which will take the temper our of it. If you do inadvertently "blue" the end with heat, cool it off and start over by shortening it past the overheated part. Have a can of water next to the grinder and use it constantly to control the heat.

At a plant I used to work at I used "T" handle allens constantly. I'd check the tips weekly and straighten them up before they caused any problems. The mechanics who didn't were fighting stripped allens constantly.

[Dr Bobs Patient]

It's pretty easy to strip an allen head bolt. Maybe there is dirt in the bolt head or a blemish on the wrench and you think it's fully seated but it's not, then it strips. Once you do, you've probably rounded off your allen wrench slightly which will ruin the next bolt you use it on.

You can save a good allen wrench over and over with a bench grinder. Just carefully shorten it enough to get past the rounded corners with the grinder being careful not to overheat the metal which will take the temper our of it. If you do inadvertently "blue" the end with heat, cool it off and start over by shortening it past the overheated part. Have a can of water next to the grinder and use it constantly to control the heat.

At a plant I used to work at I used "T" handle allens constantly. I'd check the tips weekly and straighten them up before they caused any problems. The mechanics who didn't were fighting stripped allens constantly.

Thanks for reminding me of that.  I checked my allen wrench and sure enough it's rounded off.  Will hit it on the grinder before anymore wrenching.

DBP

[9Ball]

I outlined my successful solution in detail:
http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,27923.0.html

Thanks GR for the link.  My search was for Pad Pin, no wonder I didn't find your thread.  I purchased a Irwin Hanson exractor kit at a local tool shop today, similar to the tool you used.

I also order the replacement Pad Pin and Cap but it will take 7-10 days according to HDL.  So in the interim I am riding her with one side with new pads and one side with old pads.  The old pads aren't down past the wear grooves yet, so I feel safe in doing this.  Otherwise she'd be in the garage until parts arrived.  Also am still looking for Kroil penetrating oil.  My tool jobber has heard of it, they use it out at Gulfstream here in Savannah so somebody has it around town.  I'll post when I get the pin out and replaced to let y'all know how it came out!  Thanks guys.

DBP

I buy Kroil from Brownells....

http://www.brownells.com/search/index.htm?k=kroil&ksubmit=y

[FryeVRCCDS0067]

I outlined my successful solution in detail:
http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,27923.0.html

Thanks GR for the link.  My search was for Pad Pin, no wonder I didn't find your thread.  I purchased a Irwin Hanson exractor kit at a local tool shop today, similar to the tool you used.

I also order the replacement Pad Pin and Cap but it will take 7-10 days according to HDL.  So in the interim I am riding her with one side with new pads and one side with old pads.  The old pads aren't down past the wear grooves yet, so I feel safe in doing this.  Otherwise she'd be in the garage until parts arrived.  Also am still looking for Kroil penetrating oil.  My tool jobber has heard of it, they use it out at Gulfstream here in Savannah so somebody has it around town.  I'll post when I get the pin out and replaced to let y'all know how it came out!  Thanks guys.

DBP

I buy Kroil from Brownells....

http://www.brownells.com/search/index.htm?k=kroil&ksubmit=y

Yep. I've found it at Rural King a time or two and our local bearing supply house has it too.

[HayHauler]

I drilled mine out without damaging the threads.  It was close, but they were still good.  I don't know why techs tighten these bolts and plugs so tight.  It isn't holding any pressure horizontally, the pin is just holidng the pads in place.  As long as it doesn't loosen enough for the far end to slip out of the caliper, there is no harm done.  I also don't think that plug would allow the pin to loosen enough anyway.  I think it acts like a safety valve for that pin.

Now I have antisieze all over those threads.

Just my $.016475

Hay 
Jimmyt

[Dr Bobs Patient]

I drilled mine out without damaging the threads.  It was close, but they were still good.  I don't know why techs tighten these bolts and plugs so tight.  It isn't holding any pressure horizontally, the pin is just holidng the pads in place.  As long as it doesn't loosen enough for the far end to slip out of the caliper, there is no harm done.  I also don't think that plug would allow the pin to loosen enough anyway.  I think it acts like a safety valve for that pin.

Now I have antisieze all over those threads.

Just my $.016475

Hay 
Jimmyt

Hey Jimmy,

I understand the tightness is more of the galvanic reaction between dissimilar metals than it is the original torque put on the fastener.  The body of the caliper is aluminum and the pin is steel, and they don't play well with each other.  That's why the use of anti-seize  compound needs to be used.

This is not the first stuck bolt in the hole rodeo I've been in, but that being said, it's the first bolt this small, recessed and hard to get at that I've encountered.

DBP

PS:  Still not attempting it until the replacement pin arrives.  Rode 60 miles last night - good therapy!

[FryeVRCCDS0067]

I drilled mine out without damaging the threads.  It was close, but they were still good.  I don't know why techs tighten these bolts and plugs so tight.  It isn't holding any pressure horizontally, the pin is just holidng the pads in place.  As long as it doesn't loosen enough for the far end to slip out of the caliper, there is no harm done.  I also don't think that plug would allow the pin to loosen enough anyway.  I think it acts like a safety valve for that pin.

Now I have antisieze all over those threads.

Just my $.016475

Hay 
Jimmyt

Exactly. The way I see it the plug acts like a "jam nut" as in when you put two nuts on a bolt and tighten them against each other so neither can come loose. I have done the same thing many times on "set screw" type pulleys and sprockets in industrial plants. You put one set screw on top of another one so they will not loosen with vibration.

[Dr Bobs Patient]

Received the Pad Pin yesturday.  Depending on what the wife has instore for me, I might just get it replaced tonight! Going to use the old easy out - vise-grip detail with a little PB Blaster bolt cracker!

DBP

[Dr Bobs Patient]

The old easy out - vise-grip detail with a little PB Blaster bolt cracker didn't quite work that easy!  I let the PB Blaster do it's work for several hours, drilled the bolt the inserted the easy out.  Started turning it and the vise grips, and then snap!  The easy out broke off in the drill hole.  Now it's time for Plan B.

This next move was a little risky as it involved heat.  I took a wet rag and wrapped it around the caliper to absorb the heat coming up the body, attached the vise grips on the pin and started heating the caliper body right below the pin area.  Kept heating, kept trying the vise grips, kept tapping with a hammer.  After about 3 minutes of heat she finally snapped loose.  Quickly checked the area where I was applying heat and it appeared that the heat stayed localized and didn't travel up the caliper body.  Hopefully nothing inside the caliper was heat damaged.  Changed out the pads and checked the brake fluid, and have alot more pressure on the brake lever with no leaks.  Oh yeah, I used a small torch that I use to heat shrink tubing on cabling.  It throws a flame about twice as big as a BIC lighter but alot less that a small propane torch.

DBP

PS: A liberal amount of anti-seize was used on the brake bolts, pad pin and plug!

[9Ball]

whoever named them "easy outs" had a good sense of humor....

glad it worked for you.